View Full Version : RDS on a Shotty: Practical?
Is an RDS on a HD shotgun practical or best left for competition and such?
Tomac
I honestly don't know ANYONE who uses a rds on their shotgun for anything and I used to be a competitive trap shooter. You just stick that front bead on your target and fire away. I could see the use for a tritium front bead but I really can't think of any advantage that an rds would give you over that. Seems like a massive waste of money.
lethal dose
10-27-11, 06:46
Coasties do it. So do I. I run a trijicon rx06.
NCPatrolAR
10-27-11, 06:47
A RDS, as long as it is reliable, can certainly be an aid when using a shotgun.
Can it be practical? Sure. Just as with carbines, hold over issues can be addressed via optics. That said, any long gun is going to have some form of irons on it as well and unless you're running a RDS in order to have some form of adjustable sighting system, (suppose you only have a bead), then you're going to have to deal with a lot of shit in your field of view that you don't need. That is, just as with fixed irons on a carbine, you already have an adjustable sighting system capable of addressing hold over issues if you have adjustable irons on your shotgun. So... To my mind... No real reason to run an RDS. To me, in fact, the RDS housing will just further obscure my FOV and complicate my sighting process. But I know there are plenty of guys out there who prefer an RDS with fixed irons, so when it comes down to it, it seems to just be an issue of personal preference. If you're curious as to what it's like, give it a try. Just keep in mind that, unlike carbines, you aren't going to find folding irons that aren't 9000 feet above bore when mounted on a receiver-mounted rail. So your irons will be fixed. Always. So you will have a lot of shit in your FOV. Always. Several more points of focus than necessary. Not to mention that few people are going to take the hit and get an aftermarket quick detach mount for their shotgun optics, because they'd like to keep it as low as is possible. And any optic that I cant get off the gun in a few seconds at most without the use of any tools is, to me, just a liability.
I've tried it, and just like RDS on handguns I didn't like it enough to put up with the extra bulk, cost, complication and potential reliability issues.
I like rifle sights or peep on a shotgun, even a normal front bead.
like a pistol, ive been wanting to try a micro dot on my shotgun but it has been surpassed as an HD weapon except for last ditch in our safe room so the dot is unnecessary, imho. i do well with trap and skeet using my 20" turkey pump with a FO front sight.
I want to try a mini red shit on my 870. I don't see how a mini red dot could add to major bulk.
ICANHITHIMMAN
10-27-11, 17:49
I have run aimpoint and eotech on my hunting shotguns and its awsome much much better than a scope for the area I hunt in. I know thats not your game but I'm saying its a great idea.
I've always felt like an RDS's cost-benefit on a shotgun did not work out. It made the gun *that* much taller and heavier and didn't add much to speedy aiming.
I'd still like to try out some sort of RMR/MRD on my shottie, though.
Guinnessman
10-27-11, 19:08
I prefer a simple bead on my HD shotguns. An Aimpoint t-1/h-1 may be a great option as well if you are trying to save weight. Personally I like the simplicity of a bead on my shotguns.
RDS on shotgun are big help when shooting slugs. With birdshot and buckshot they can actually be downside, because shooter tend to use them for precise aiming, that slows down taget acquisition.
I ran an eotech 512 on my 870 police for a long time, ieven dove hunted and shot clays with it. It was really nice and the center dot was main POI and the outer circle was more or less spread pattern. Only reason i sold it was to fund optics for another rifle but I miss it....
Failure2Stop
10-28-11, 10:04
I've always felt like an RDS's cost-benefit on a shotgun did not work out. It made the gun *that* much taller and heavier and didn't add much to speedy aiming.
I agree.
However, I use shotguns for 2 applications:
1- Blowing chunks out of door frames
2- Running around a range in daylight
If I had to fight with a shotgun I would probably be more inclined to mount an optic.
I just recently took a rob haught shotgun class that included a bunch of agents from the DHS. All of them were running eotechs mounted on 870's, and all of them seemed like they had an easier time making hits than those that didn't have optics. The top four shooters in the class all had eotechs mounted. Imo having an optic takes the guesswork out of aiming. Put the dot on target, pull the trigger, that's it. That leaves room in your brain to worry about manipulations which imo is where shotguns get tough to run. Manipulating a shotgun at full speed is in my experience the most difficult part of running a shotgun. Ammo management, reloads, and the actual act of racking the action can overload your brain. Making aiming easier can't hurt, and can only make you a better shooter imo.
I'm currently exploring options on mounting an aimpoint to my personal 870 after seeing how well they work in class.
Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk
A RDS is always a huge aid in low light when you cannot see the end of your barrel in your peripheral vision. So if my shotgun was my primary HD gun, then yes.
Once upon a time in a night 3-Gun shoot I remember the only guy to make his slug shots had a RD. Metallic sights were 100% invisible since the shoot was in complete darkness, but targets had some illumination.
I have a T1 on my duty Benelli M4 and it is MUCH easier to make accurate longer range slug hits than with the chunky open sights. For shorter range buckshot work the RDS is easier as well because you can get a flash sight picture in a heads up position, just as with short range carbine shooting.
I think typical shotgun bead point shooting is generally frowned upon in domestic LE settings...
Dennis.
I have an Aimpoint H1 in a Larue QD low mount on my 14 inch 870 with a Vang rail and his ghost ring sights. The optic is enough higher that a conventional stock smacks my face with slugs. I got a Mesa Urbino stock, with the adjustable riser, and it is now extremely comfortable with Brenneke slugs. This combo shoots great groups with slugs. I haven't done enough with buckshot on the timer to say how the speed of the RDS compares to just irons.
For hunting and when using slugs, a mini RDS would be impressive. The EOTech's wider window would make it faster to acquire, but the model that works best for that (XPS) on a 12ga seems like it would punish the 123A much too badly.
60buckscash
11-20-11, 10:01
http://www.burrisoptics.com/speedbead.html
This would seem to add red dot ability without extra weight and height issues. Anyone use this?
Raven Armament
11-20-11, 10:22
I've looked at those for a while but haven't gotten one yet. I'd love to try it out.
60buckscash
11-20-11, 10:50
They don't make them for us Mossberg fans though.
http://www.burrisoptics.com/speedbead.html
This would seem to add red dot ability without extra weight and height issues. Anyone use this?
No idea on HD use, but they loose credibility when they claim it's a solution for fast moving targets. Any good skeet or sporting clays shooter knows if you look at your sight (or end of barrel) on a crosser you will shoot behind.
I have recently begun running Aimpoint micro's on the 870's I use--these have proven OUTSTANDING!
At the Magpul Dynamics Shotgun class in SJ in Sept, both Chris Costa and Steve Fisher were using Trijicon RMR's on their shotguns. Shooters with RDS on their shotguns were able to place their hits more precisely using slugs and were faster on targets using buckshot.
I have not discovered a downside to using a high quality RDS on a duty/self-defense shotgun and appreciate the numerous benefits...
http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/11120551029771.jpg
I have recently begun running Aimpoint micro's on the 870's I use--these have proven OUTSTANDING!
At the Magpul Dynamics Shotgun class in SJ in Sept, both Chris Costa and Steve Fisher were using Trijicon RMR's on their shotguns.
I have had terrific luck with Aimpoints in general, and the T1/H1 models on various long guns. Thoughts on the RMR versus T1 on the shotgun?
PS: This is my set-up with an H1 and the Mesa Urbino stock in a low Larue QD mount:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Image.jpg
If the RMR is directly screwed into the receiver, it is very low profile. If attaching to a pic rail, then the micro Aimpoints rule.
They don't make them for us Mossberg fans though.
I'm on my phone now so I don't have the picture. I had Aimpro Tactical make up mounts for the RMR and MRDS. He introduced them at SHOT last year (in the Mossberg booth). The base attaches to the taped receivers.
We also just did a demo for SRD. One of the shotguns has a MRDS I just threw on as we were talking, rail mounted. Despite not being zeroed the shooters were faster and more accurate with then with a bead.
I'll hang a picture when I get to a computer. The Aimpro mint with MRDS is reviewed in the current issue of Tactical Shoguns, or some such mag.
http://pro-patria.us/Shotgun/MRDS930Mountweb1.jpg
http://pro-patria.us/Shotgun/MRDS930Mountweb3.jpg
I've used an EoTech-equipped 870 on a mounted (truck) hog hunt on a friend's property. The optical sight made an enormous difference using buck on fast moving targets shooting from the back of a truck going 30+ across a field (read: pretty bumpy). I honestly can't see being able to make the shots I made using my rifle-sighted 870, or even a bead-sighted weapon.
For a defensive long gun I really can't see a downside to a good optical sight. Handguns are about the only weapons on which they seem impractical.
That said, my HD shotgun doesn't have one. It may in the future, but it isn't a priority.
Redmanfms--I run RDS on all my pistols...
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6106/6338342542_5b7d9cc202_z.jpg
Belmont31R
11-22-11, 22:05
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/DSC01005.jpg
Redmanfms--I run RDS on all my pistols...
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6106/6338342542_5b7d9cc202_z.jpg
You carry that weapon? I've shot a 1911 mounting a Docter MS01 (which is what appears to be on the Glock), it did confer all the same advantages an RDS does on a long gun, but it wasn't what I consider concealable.
I'm not very comfortable with the prospect of not having a BUIS on a pistol either.
You carry that weapon? I've shot a 1911 mounting a Docter MS01 (which is what appears to be on the Glock), it did confer all the same advantages an RDS does on a long gun, but it wasn't what I consider concealable.
I'm not very comfortable with the prospect of not having a BUIS on a pistol either.
Most of the guns that I have seen with a MRD had irons that you could see through the MRD. If you look at his pistol, I believe that is the case since his front sight is so tall. The barrel isn't threaded, so I assume they aren't suppressor sights.
Most of the guns that I have seen with a MRD had irons that you could see through the MRD. If you look at his pistol, I believe that is the case since his front sight is so tall. The barrel isn't threaded, so I assume they aren't suppressor sights.
Suppressor height sits will actually cowitness with some applications.
Bounce over to TSD (Suarez Tac) and look at their G17 configurations with the Trijicons, they actually work pretty well.
Also with holsters like the Archangel (appendix carry kydex IWB), an aggressively cut RCS (IWB/OWB), or the Safariland MRDS custom jobs (biggest change is how the ALS runs on those as I understand) the holster options are there.
As far as concealment, on a double stack pistol or full size 1911 I've always found the heel of the grip to be what protrudes most - an MRDS making a 1911 marginally wider would preclude some deep concealment setups, but I don't see that as ruining the concept at all.
Sorry for the confusion. My post was meant to convey that, since the barrel isn't threaded, I don't think he has the tall sights for use with a suppressor, but rather to be able to cowitness with the MRDS. They may actually be "suppressor sights", but I don't believe he is using them for that purpose due to the lack of a threaded barrel and the presence of the MRDS.
It was in response to the post just before mine that said they would want BUIS on any weapon with a RDS. I was pointing out that he had BUIS.
Redmanfms--As noted, all my pistols now run an RDS; there are no differences at all in the ease of carry or "concealability" with or without an RDS mounted. You might wish to read my 3rd post here, which discusses RDS use on handguns: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Also, Chris Costa's recent comments on handgun RDS use might be helpful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l93CpnWwSdU.
Doc, as an RMR owner, what is your opinion of the RMR for a Benelli M4?
The RMR should be fine (Costa had one on his), it is the Benelli M4 I worry about...
The RMR should be fine (Costa had one on his), it is the Benelli M4 I worry about...
I have a SBS 870P in the trunk for work but wanted something different and received the Benelli as a birthday present (I have the best wife in the world!). So far the Benelli has run everything I've fed it. I just did a 1 day SG Operator course with it, shooting full power buck and slug which had I done it with the SBS 870P I would have been feeling it a bit afterwards in the shoulder. The Benelli has a short railed section over the receiver, just begging for either an H1 or an RMR. Our two training rifles have Aimpoint Micros, I was curious about the other options, having not run an RMR, nor knowing anyone who had one.
Redmanfms--As noted, all my pistols now run an RDS; there are no differences at all in the ease of carry or "concealability" with or without an RDS mounted. You might wish to read my 3rd post here, which discusses RDS use on handguns: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887
Also, Chris Costa's recent comments on handgun RDS use might be helpful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l93CpnWwSdU.
Very cool, thanks for the information.
I thought that front sight was a little tall, turns out it is for co-witness. :)
arizona98tj
11-25-11, 14:35
For hunting and when using slugs, a mini RDS would be impressive. The EOTech's wider window would make it faster to acquire, but the model that works best for that (XPS) on a 12ga seems like it would punish the 123A much too badly.
It hasn't been an issue for me thus far. And you are correct, the wide window does a very good job. I have the XPS2-0 mounted on the rail of my FNH SLP Mk1. I've put over a thousand rounds of 1 1/8 oz bird shot through it along with about 200 slugs and 2 cases of 00 buck. Next month, the training class I am scheduled for is 750 bird, 300 slugs, and a case of 00 buck. If it makes it through that (using the same battery as the prior class), I'm thinking it is reliable enough for my HD purposes.
I do not profess to be an ace shotgun user by any stretch of the imagination. My last training course was the 1st time with the EOTech.....I finished tops in the class with some 40 participants starting the 4 day course (I was 3 points off a perfect score). I never did nearly that well in the previous two times I shot the course. No one can convince me the EOTech isn't a good matchup for my SLP. I can't say it isn't for everyone but folks that haven't given them an honest evaluation should try one before doing so, IMHO.
http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/eotech/xps2-8.jpg
I'm considering putting one of Trijicons Dual-Illuminated sights on my 870. The only thing I need to figure out is MOA and mounting solution.
IZinterrogator
11-27-11, 02:22
I'm considering putting one of Trijicons Dual-Illuminated sights on my 870. The only thing I need to figure out is MOA and mounting solution.I'm planning on doing the same with my 590, but not until they make a dual-illum model RMR with a red or green dot. I can't stand amber dots.
Is an RDS on a HD shotgun practical or best left for competition and such?
Tomac
My agency has started mounting Aimpoint T-1's on some of our short barreled Remington 870's.
I'm planning on doing the same with my 590, but not until they make a dual-illum model RMR with a red or green dot. I can't stand amber dots.
Amber isn't my preffered choice either. It might be worth emailing Trijicon to see if they plan to make them in green or red anytime soon. I like the Dual-Ill. for the fact that it's always on and they don't need batteries. To the best of my knowledge, the battery models would require the unit be removed to change the batteries and then re-zeroed. Maybe I'm wrong. Then again, the battery models don't have a half-life of 10-12 years.
bwheeler03
12-01-11, 15:59
If the RMR is directly screwed into the receiver, it is very low profile. If attaching to a pic rail, then the micro Aimpoints rule.
DocGKR,
I noticed Steve's direct mount on the 1100 in the video, and am interested in setting up an 870 with something similar. You don't need to sell me on a red dot for slugs. Is the mount a custom job? A modification of a trijicon mount? Do you have any details or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Thanks!
Just drill and tap the appropriate size holes in the top of the receiver and mount the RMR directly to the receiver. If you have a piece of Picatinny rail already mounted to the receiver, you can use a Pic rail adapter to attach the RMR to that.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.