View Full Version : Pistol options for girlfriend
I'm trying to get my GF to start carrying but she complains that her G19 is too big to carry, so I'm looking for alternate solutions that might make her happier. She's had formal training with the G19 and is pretty good with it, so she's not completely clueless as to what she likes.
I've tried to explain to her that a smaller gun will probably be harder to shoot and control and to be honest I only really shoot Glock, M&P and my 1911 so other than one of those, I' just don't trust their reliability.
I though about a revolver but I think the DA trigger would be a killer for her.
So what suggestions do you guys have?
If she knows the Glock platform, stick with what she knows. I would try out a sub compact (I haven't, G19 is the smallest I have). You would also be able to use the G19 mags with the smaller Glock. (maybe not for concealment but for range use, it would be a plus)
Good Luck.
Take her to a gun store with a very good selection, or even a range where she can rent a few different types and fire them, so she can pick up several different types and see what's comfortable for HER. After that, then you can start narrowing down the selection with her. It doesn't matter what's comfortable to you since it won't be your carry piece.
Let her choose and only offer input if absolutely needed or she asks for it.
Better she is enthusiastic & enjoys shooting a gun she likes rather than rarely shoots a gun you like for her?
Spoken from experience.:p
Nephrology
11-01-11, 18:44
How is she carrying? That is a good first step.
You guys all have good points.
Here are my concerns. A sub-compact is harder to shoot than the compact. I had both so I know from experience. Also in the Glock system the sub is not that much thinner or smaller to really have a benefit IMO.
As for other makes, to be honest I'm not so sure about their reliability. I know it's in my head more than likely but it's there.
R.
Wife carried a G19 for a while and one day decided she wanted a change. I introduced her to a Ruger LCR.38,she loves it. Less weight and she likes the way it shoots. My problem solved. Good luck with yours.
A sub-compact is harder to shoot than the compact.
A compact she won't carry won't do any good.
If she wants something small, try out some subcompacts. The G26 isn't very compact at all. The grip and barrel are shorter, but the gun is every bit as wide as a full size, and hard to conceal.
Some of the single stack 9mm sub-compacts are very light and concealable. I had a Kahr PM9 that was absolutley amazing. I'm kicking myself for selling it. It was light enough to be concealed under light clothing. The single stack 9mm PM9 is very thin, about 9/10" IIRC. Very easy to carry. The recoil is higher, but so what. Find a place you can rent some different sub-compacts and make a day of it.
It isn't a gun for a long fight, its a get the **** out of there gun. For the ranges it would be used at, the recoil is kind of a moot point. Most likely it will be a point and shoot fight anyway.
I'm trying to get my GF to start carrying but she complains that her G19 is too big to carry, so I'm looking for alternate solutions that might make her happier. She's had formal training with the G19 and is pretty good with it, so she's not completely clueless as to what she likes.
I've tried to explain to her that a smaller gun will probably be harder to shoot and control and to be honest I only really shoot Glock, M&P and my 1911 so other than one of those, I' just don't trust their reliability.
I though about a revolver but I think the DA trigger would be a killer for her.
So what suggestions do you guys have?
Just a few thoughts:
1. Is she truly interested in carrying, or is her contention that the G19 is too big to carry just a diplomatic way for her to tell you that she's not interested in carrying a gun? If it's the former, then I recommend continuing the process. If it's the latter, I'd drop it immediately.
2. Has she considered methods of carry? I think it's probably a good idea to get a decent idea of how the gun will be carried before moving on to the choice of gun. This is true IMO especially for women because body shape and wardrobe choices frequently act as greater constraints in carry decisions for women than for men. For example, belt carry sometimes doesn't work well for women because of waist/hip shape and high waists, and because they tend not to wear trousers with belt loops. Ankle carry doesn't work well for women who usually wear skirts, but can work well for women who wear bell-bottom trousers. If she's going to do off-body carry, then maybe her G19 is a good choice after all. Does she have any female friends who carry? If so, how do they carry?
3. If she has a sense of ownership of the gun choice process, she will be a lot more interested in using the results of that choice than if you actually pick it out for her.
4. Your views that anything but a Glock, M&P, or your 1911 won't be reliable may have already doomed her search to failure, if you have communicated this view to her. If you have expressed this view to her, I recommend that you find a way to walk it back.
5. A few possible candidate weapons for her might include a Walther PPS in 9mm (very Glocklike, but slimmer and shorter in slide/barrel length), a Kahr P9/K9/CW9, or if she wants something extremely small, a Kel Tec P32 or Ruger LCP. If she can handle the trigger, an airweight or all stainless j-frame, or Ruger LCR might be a decent choice, if loaded with .38(and try to steer her away from starting out with +P ammo), not .357. Is there a rental range local to her where she live fire a variety of weapons and make the choice herself? This could help tremendously.
6. Good luck.
Gutshot John
11-01-11, 19:45
It should be noted that several women shooters I've known, including my wife, find the Glock too big to shoot (fingers don't reach the trigger), never mind being too big to carry.
The smaller gun is harder to shoot line is a bit overdone...girls have smaller hands.
That said if she's only carrying to make you happy...she'll stop eventually. It has to be her idea/wish.
Take her to a gun store with a very good selection, or even a range where she can rent a few different types and fire them, so she can pick up several different types and see what's comfortable for HER. After that, then you can start narrowing down the selection with her. It doesn't matter what's comfortable to you since it won't be your carry piece.
Bingo. My wife loves her Mark III and is DEADLY with it. Let her choose. JMHO.
My wife gave me back my Glock 26 after she got a chance to shoot a Kahr, now she has a CW9 and a PM9 as her carry guns.
Triple-recommendation on the "rent a bunch of guns to try" concept.
In my case, she fall ass-backwards in love with bobtail 1911s, and tolerated my pitiful attempts to get her to reconsider.
And as if that alone wasn't betrayal enough.....I have to admit that she's a better shot, too; fewer bad habits to unlearn than I.
It's an absolute outrage!
(I'm actually VERY proud of her, but you didn't hear it from me.)
Definitely have her try a few different options. Renting handguns at the range or trying firearms that belong to friends is much cheaper than buying one and hoping it'll be something she likes.
If she does happen to like the Glock 19 in general but she's just looking for something slimmer, the Walther PPS in 9mm is definitely worth looking into as an option. However, let her try it before buying one.
mkmckinley
11-01-11, 23:58
My wife really likes my (her?) M&P9c. It's a little smaller than a G19 but very easy to shoot.
the G26 is invisible on most people....
that said, a smith and wesson j-frame is all i can really imagine a young lady being happy concealing... they're hard to shoot but not impossible, and 5 rounds beats the crap out of a sharp stick.
honestly to me the jury is still out on all those little semi-auto pocket pistols.... well, the 380 and 32's i'd scratch right off. the j-frame has been saving people's asses for many years... all while allowing the user to remain comfortable and stylish.
that said, i (and i think most of the guys on this board) carry a g19... I don't personally find it too hard to conceal, and if shit truly goes wrong i can't think of anything short of a rifle i'd rather have on me. That said, like most of the guys here i'm a somewhat militant gun nut (by most standards anyway)
so basically the gun must fit the lifestyle... but the user must train.
I'd second the Walther PPS 9mm if width is an issue and you want to stay with a lighter weight trigger pull.
All good things to consider. I like the PPS idea, its' a bit smaller and we still have a relative light trigger.
Any known issues with the PPS?
All good things to consider. I like the PPS idea, its' a bit smaller and we still have a relative light trigger.
Any known issues with the PPS?
The earlier ones seemed to need a break in period, and got more reliable once you got north of a few hundred rounds.
Recent buyers aren't speaking up about issues like these as much, so maybe that's not the case anymore. Most guys I know that have them are largely pleased with them.
Agree with everything that has been said here. Make sure she wants to. You start with "I'm trying to get my GF to carry a gun". That might be a huge part of the problem. As much crap as my wife carries around with her, a Glock 19, 26, or a Krinkov, really would not make a huge difference, based on the weight of her purse. She may be saying "its too big" as a way of saying "I don't want to carry".
I'd have her look at the Kahr series ... if size is more an issue than weight, get her a steel one. It'll be more pleasant to shoot. In my experience snubbies are problematic. Heavy triggers, small sights, low capacity, and stout recoil, although the new smith 22 mag might be a good choice. Thinking out of the box here, a Sig 232 in 380 might be a good choice.
Key is to have her pick. We have lots of students show up to courses with their husband/boy friends guns. I always tell them "you going to let him pick your shoes and lingerie next? You are going to get something he likes, not something you are going to be comfortable with".
D
The key is to have her choose.
KTR03,
Your right about the smaller size, recoil etc...That's the reason I was hoping she would stick with the G19. She's shot her's (actually) mine and is good with it. Not as much as I would like but I'll take what I can get.
The biggest issue I have with her is her mindset. What I'm trying to do is educate her in the fact that not all people are nice and some will kill you for the $20 in her bag, that the world isn't all pretty and full of roses. in that sense she's pretty clueless. As she starts to see the reality of things, I think she'll change her mind. Actually yesterday she said something to me about it and it was that comment that prompted this thread. But, I can;t say it's been a road without frustration on my part. Sometimes her mindset drives me NUTS!!!!!
I agree with all you guys, she has to see the weapon as a tool and an asset, otherwise it will just collect dust. I know she feels much more comfortable when we're together and I have mine on me, which is 99% of the time. So I'm trying to get her to be self sufficient as I can't be there all the time.
Either way, she has to like it, no doubt.
KTR03,
Your right about the smaller size, recoil etc...That's the reason I was hoping she would stick with the G19. She's shot her's (actually) mine and is good with it. Not as much as I would like but I'll take what I can get.
The biggest issue I have with her is her mindset. What I'm trying to do is educate her in the fact that not all people are nice and some will kill you for the $20 in her bag, that the world isn't all pretty and full of roses. in that sense she's pretty clueless. As she starts to see the reality of things, I think she'll change her mind. Actually yesterday she said something to me about it and it was that comment that prompted this thread. But, I can;t say it's been a road without frustration on my part. Sometimes her mindset drives me NUTS!!!!!
I agree with all you guys, she has to see the weapon as a tool and an asset, otherwise it will just collect dust. I know she feels much more comfortable when we're together and I have mine on me, which is 99% of the time. So I'm trying to get her to be self sufficient as I can't be there all the time.
Either way, she has to like it, no doubt.
its REALLY hard to get women in that mindset if they aren't already. thankfully my wife is extremely cautious. she has some gun experience as well but i'm working to get her more proficient. she's good about not answering the door to people we dont know if i'm not home and if i am home i answer it.
St.Michael
11-02-11, 19:59
its REALLY hard to get women in that mindset if they aren't already. thankfully my wife is extremely cautious. she has some gun experience as well but i'm working to get her more proficient. she's good about not answering the door to people we dont know if i'm not home and if i am home i answer it.
My girl is the same way. Not even my FRIENDS are allowed over when I am not in my own home. I have had people show up early at my house and my gf lets em sit in the car until I get home.
Did your gf say she wanted to carry? I am about to go on this same battle as I am buying the gf a new weapon of choice and trying to get her carry ready by the end of the new year. Has she held the M&Ps. Those are really nice in the hands for sure. Especially for smaller hands I think.
rickp - You are still looking at this from your point of view and not hers. Listen to the folks here, there is a lot of wisdom from guys who have been there with their girlfriends/wives. And trying to show your girl how shitty the world really is, in order to get her to be more safety and defense conscious, by telling her every chance you get is not a good road to go down. I know from experience, it took my girlfriend and me getting assaulted for her to put her guard up somewhat (we came out it fine, the bg's not so much). But she still sees the world in colors I haven't seen since I was a child. It's aggravating sometimes but at the end of the day, that's why I love her. I rue the day she becomes as calloused as I have.
Anyway, not to get too far from the point, I agree with everyone else. Find out what she really wants including if she really want to carry, then let her try shooting various guns without you giving instant feedback. Let her feels like she own that gun 100%.
My situation was different in that she comes from a very non-gun (not anti) background so she didn't even feel comfortable coming into a gun store. Actually made things easier and I got her a g19 and aa 22 conv kit to start her off. Got her some formal training from a couple buddies; from what I had read from others, I wasn't gonna take on that beast myself, at least not at the beginning. Next was the ccw. I made the argument that it takes the hassle out of transport to the range and in case I did something boneheaded like leave my gun in the glove (I wouldn't) she would not be in potential legal jeopardy. She bought it an got her ccw. Next step is to get her to carry but right now we are in a town that is very safe. I know, I know, shit can happen anywhere and I carry everywhere for that reason but I am not going to make that argument to her. Rather, since we will be back to big city in under a year, I've been planting seeds for her to carry on certain occasions once we are back there. I'm getting positive feedback so I think it may actually happen. If you told this girl four years ago that she would own a gun, be a good shot, have a permit to carry, and considering carrying a gun on her person she'd tell you you are out of your mind.
It's tough to do because everything isn't an emotional experience for us but try getting into her head a bit. I learned all these things the hard way. Good luck brother.
Edit to add: sorry some of my grammar sounds retarded, I typed (or over typed) this from my phone and it's too much of a hassle to correct all the minor mistakes.
I just came across this: http://www.flashbangholster.com/Flashbang_Holster/Photos.html, seems pretty interesting. My girl likes to dress in girlie cloths, doesn't leave much room to conceal. This might be an option.
Robb Jensen
11-02-11, 21:22
I highly recommend the Ruger LCR. It has a great trigger right out of the box and felt recoil and muzzle flip is more pleasant than the same loads in a aluminum S&W J-frame.
My 100 lb wife shot dipstick with a 1911 for around 5 years, and a browning hi-power for 7 years. She has tiny tiny hands. But when a woman, or perhaps men don't shoot for awhile, i fear they will not find the safety. So when i discovered the grip reduction glocks i got a Bowie 19 for her and she absolutely loves it. And i feel better about her in a "dynamic critical incident" (he-he). FWIW over the next few years i plan to switch out my multiple hidden gems around the home to safe actions.
ThirdWatcher
11-03-11, 01:52
Recent buyers aren't speaking up about issues like these as much, so maybe that's not the case anymore. Most guys I know that have them are largely pleased with them.
I bought a 9mm Walther PPS a year or so ago and no FTFs to date. It is an accurate and reliable pistol and the trigger is identical to a Glock trigger. I like mine so much that I went and bought a fullsized Glock for duty use.
rickp - You are still looking at this from your point of view and not hers. Listen to the folks here, there is a lot of wisdom from guys who have been there with their girlfriends/wives. And trying to show your girl how shitty the world really is, in order to get her to be more safety and defense conscious, by telling her every chance you get is not a good road to go down. I know from experience, it took my girlfriend and me getting assaulted for her to put her guard up somewhat (we came out it fine, the bg's not so much). But she still sees the world in colors I haven't seen since I was a child. It's aggravating sometimes but at the end of the day, that's why I love her. I rue the day she becomes as calloused as I have.
Anyway, not to get too far from the point, I agree with everyone else. Find out what she really wants including if she really want to carry, then let her try shooting various guns without you giving instant feedback. Let her feels like she own that gun 100%.
My situation was different in that she comes from a very non-gun (not anti) background so she didn't even feel comfortable coming into a gun store. Actually made things easier and I got her a g19 and aa 22 conv kit to start her off. Got her some formal training from a couple buddies; from what I had read from others, I wasn't gonna take on that beast myself, at least not at the beginning. Next was the ccw. I made the argument that it takes the hassle out of transport to the range and in case I did something boneheaded like leave my gun in the glove (I wouldn't) she would not be in potential legal jeopardy. She bought it an got her ccw. Next step is to get her to carry but right now we are in a town that is very safe. I know, I know, shit can happen anywhere and I carry everywhere for that reason but I am not going to make that argument to her. Rather, since we will be back to big city in under a year, I've been planting seeds for her to carry on certain occasions once we are back there. I'm getting positive feedback so I think it may actually happen. If you told this girl four years ago that she would own a gun, be a good shot, have a permit to carry, and considering carrying a gun on her person she'd tell you you are out of your mind.
It's tough to do because everything isn't an emotional experience for us but try getting into her head a bit. I learned all these things the hard way. Good luck brother.
Edit to add: sorry some of my grammar sounds retarded, I typed (or over typed) this from my phone and it's too much of a hassle to correct all the minor mistakes.
Yeah, you're right.
You know she had a minor incident that somewhat opened her eyes. She was walking in the office parking lot heading to the elevator, but instead of having her head up high looking around, paying attention, she was looking at her phone when all of a sudden some guy was in her face asking her to find a contact on HIS own phone. It took her by surprise and freaked her out to say the least. She realized how quickly someone could be on you before you even know what happened.
But to tell you the truth, some people quickly forget these incidents and easily fall back into their normal behavior, and by then it's too late to say "told you so".
Regardless, you're right. I'll see what she wants to do and go from there.
Please let your wife, gf, life partner, etc. decide. I'll share with you my story in hopes that you don't make the same mistake(s).
*keep in mind, she carries in her "purse" (I say that in quotes because this damn thing wouldn't even be considered a carry-on by most commercial airline standards...remember this for later)
Bought her a Sig P238 as a surprise for her first gun...at $479 for the Nitron model it was a steal. Add a small pair of VZ grips to it and she liked it, much more comfortable to shoot than her dad's LCP.
Sig P238
Pros:
-full sights, night sights to boot
-manual safety
-small
-yet comfortable to shoot
Cons:
-****ing unreliable...Sig sent me 3 new magazines and 2 new recoil springs before I could get it to run at 50%...and NO it wasn't user error (this time). If my 3" Kimber ran with my grip, this thing should. And no less than 6 seasoned shooters tried, and failed, with it.
-pretty heavy by pocket gun standards
-a royal PITA to work on
-crappy plastic trigger, negated IMO, any benefits of having a SA setup
-380 (personal opinion, don't start a caliber debate on my account)
So we sold that, at a loss mind you...on to the Kahr CM9 and PM9
Kahr
Pros:
-small
-decent sights
-9mm
-great reputation that proved to be true
-reasonably priced (CM9)
Cons:
-wide slide and narrow grip gave it a weird feel
-tighter than (insert clever analogy here)...so much so that she could barely rack it
-expensive (PM9)
After all this I put my foot down. Remember that "purse"...yea well when a M590A1 could almost fit, why in God's name were we worrying about single stack pocket guns? Good question! Enter...
Glock 26 gen 3
Pros:
-easy as hell for her to shoot and operate
-cheap and easily acquired aftermarket parts
-full sights
-9mm
Cons:
-ugly?
-she thought it was too big at first...not the first time we've had THAT problem :big_boss: training and repitition proved to be a fix...as it has in the past :moil: :) sorry, immature moment. Giggity.
My take-aways
-Seems to me that most women aren't going to carry on their person and worry about a good belt/holster like us men do. So don't let the "I'm a girl I want a small gun" discussion get too far without having them at least try a G26, M&P9c, etc. Their coupon-pickers are capable of holding more than they think :eek:
-As a general rule, it seems that women are less apt to practice a ton and get comfortable with something. So something that's completely uncomfortable will wind up not getting used by them, and most likely is sold. Of course at a loss...both in terms of money and adding fuel to her repertoire of "I told you so's"
-Simple is better. And they think they want a thumb-safety at first. Especially if they're a new shooter. Carrying frequently, a proper holster, and proper handling will most likely squelch this feeling.
-Purse selection is key. Sorry fellas, you're probably gonna have to take her purse shopping. **** me right? Nah...trust me, it's better than listening to incessant griping because she loses her gun in the bottomless mary-****ing-poppins purse most women carry. Get one with multiple pockets, preferably sized to the gun/holster and to a spare magazine (or 2).
-In the end, LET HER CHOOSE. She may not make the correct choice, but she'll learn, and arrive at an educated decision on her second try (or third...or fourth) :)
Munch520,
That's funny. I can even picture your sarcasm, which makes it even more funny.
I'll take this journey with a grain of salt. I'll follow everyone's lead and see where she wants to go with it. Then go from there.
Good luck! It's a fun experience and in the end, if she carries it shoots a bit with you, well that's a great thing in my book.
Get her a Serbu and a bigger purse. Ha. ;)
The biggest issue I have with her is her mindset. What I'm trying to do is educate her in the fact that not all people are nice and some will kill you for the $20 in her bag, that the world isn't all pretty and full of roses. in that sense she's pretty clueless.
Have her read the books by Paxton Quigley and Gila Hayes. Women look different at the same topics than us, so its not bad to give her the female voice of reason.
http://www.paxtonquigley.com/
I'll tell you my experience with my lovely, talented, liberal, wannabe buddhist, Nurse, wife. When we first starting dating she said "no guns in my house ever". I responded that to me that was like saying "no fire extinguishers in my house, ever"... Thus began the education process. Here is what worked for me:
1) Be very highly skilled yourself. Make sure she knows that you are not going to shoot her, her cat, or the guy in the mirror.
2) Be moderate in your temper. If you suffer from road rage, testosterone poisoning, or take to flipping people off on a regular basis, it increases her anxiety level.
3) Start with pepper spray. Get her carrying that. Then a a blade...
4) My best friend say to her "you're leaving the hospital at night and someone gets in your face what would you do" - Wife:"I'd pepper spray him". "And if he grabbed you"? Wife" I'd stab him in the neck until he let go". Friend: "So this is not a discussion about hurting other people, its about gear...". The light went on in her head.
5) Put no pressure on her, but teach her female friends to shoot. Find other woman who shoot and makes sure that she sees that she can still be a feminine, liberal, hippy, buddhist AND carry life saving equipment.
My experience is that we often try to meet people where we think they should be - where we are. We need to meet students where they are. Everyone has a currency that the care about. Black people: "You ever been harassed by a bunch of red necks". Woman: "are you and your kids worth defending". Gay People: "Every been bashed? Know someone who has?". Old People "you're too old to run and too fat to fly... what you gonna do?"Its not a right wing/left wing thing. My colleague starts every lecture with "everyone here is magnificent, unique, and irreplaceable, and no one has the right to take you away from the people who depend on you". Hard to argue with that. Once you get that across its about gear.
The bonus... You get left wing, minority, gay, hippy, buddhists watching Top Shot, shooting, and advocating for gun rights.
Rather than change to a different pistol, have you considered looking at the method that she carries her pistol? My wife does not want to wear a holster and really has no interest in wearing a holster or dressing in clothes that are better suited for conceal carry. The solution I found was to purchase a couple of conceal carry purses. She has not voiced one complaint on how heavy the gun is to carry since she changed to conceal carry specific purses. The pistol that she uses for EDC is a S&W M&P9c.
Rather than change to a different pistol, have you considered looking at the method that she carries her pistol? My wife does not want to wear a holster and really has no interest in wearing a holster or dressing in clothes that are better suited for conceal carry. The solution I found was to purchase a couple of conceal carry purses. She has not voiced one complaint on how heavy the gun is to carry since she changed to conceal carry specific purses. The pistol that she uses for EDC is a S&W M&P9c.
Bag is the only way she'll do it.
St.Michael
11-03-11, 13:00
I wonder why she only wants to carry from the purse? I am sure you have tried this, but does she not like side holsters at all? What about a shoulder holster? Pulling from a "purse" to me would seem like a fat pain in he ass. Not to mention it's so non consistent. Since I get to teach my gf how to "carry" I am probably get her a nice raven holster and what not. Maybe you can get her a holster and let her carry around the house and such to help get her comfort level up with a hip holster.
I wonder why she only wants to carry from the purse? I am sure you have tried this, but does she not like side holsters at all? What about a shoulder holster? Pulling from a "purse" to me would seem like a fat pain in he ass. Not to mention it's so non consistent. Since I get to teach my gf how to "carry" I am probably get her a nice raven holster and what not. Maybe you can get her a holster and let her carry around the house and such to help get her comfort level up with a hip holster.
She's a girls girl if that makes sense. It's just one of those things that will not happen. I have a better chance at winning the lotto than getting her to carry in a holster on a daily basis. That would also mean adjusting wardrobe, again not happeing. A bag is the most realistic for her.
I wonder why she only wants to carry from the purse? I am sure you have tried this, but does she not like side holsters at all? What about a shoulder holster? Pulling from a "purse" to me would seem like a fat pain in he ass. Not to mention it's so non consistent. Since I get to teach my gf how to "carry" I am probably get her a nice raven holster and what not. Maybe you can get her a holster and let her carry around the house and such to help get her comfort level up with a hip holster.
She's a girls girl if that makes sense. It's just one of those things that will not happen. I have a better chance at winning the lotto than getting her to carry in a holster on a daily basis. That would also mean adjusting wardrobe, again not happeing. A bag is the most realistic for her.
Rick, I get that. In my experience, most women don't want to deal with a holster setup.
IF she gets a purse that lends itself to organization/effectively holding a gun, drawing from this position will be negligibly slower to no different than a hip holster. My wife used to walk to the car with a hand in her purse and on her keys. Many women are used to this 'stance'...they'll just have a hand on the grip of a gun instead. Keep in mind, most men will have to bother the women to keep the purse somewhat clean and free of obstruction so she can get to the weapon. My wife affectionately refers to this as "purse purging". This occurs roughly weekly...where I go through and throw tons of shit out, reorganize it, and remove makeup, food crumbs, etc. from the working parts of her pistol. :nono:
I tried the hip holster route with a couple friends wives and my wife. End of the day they are marginally comfortable with it...and that may mean they leave the gun at home. To me this is unacceptable, either carry all the time or don't. What never leaves a woman's side? Her purse...it houses her lifeblood (phone, make-up, credit card, keys). Throw a gun in a purse that's been setup for carry...and your wife/gf will have a gun with her 24/7 :)
St.Michael
11-03-11, 13:36
oooooooo that makes sense i guess. IWB? lol I thank god everyday that I don't have to put with too much with the "I'm a girl I have needs" crap. My gf is very laid back when it comes to that. Plus she doesn't mind my obsession with my guns and such. You should get her to shoot competition. Then maybe she would put the holster on there while at the competitions and it could grow on her. :)
oooooooo that makes sense i guess. IWB? lol I thank god everyday that I don't have to put with too much with the "I'm a girl I have needs" crap. My gf is very laid back when it comes to that. Plus she doesn't mind my obsession with my guns and such. You should get her to shoot competition. Then maybe she would put the holster on there while at the competitions and it could grow on her. :)
Getting your woman to carry in an on body holster is a loosing proposition unless she already dresses like a man... Did you know that women's pants often don't have belt loops, much less ****ing pockets? and If they do have pockets they're barely big enough to put your hand in? Yeah, blew my mind too.
Arm your women with situational awareness before you arm them with weapons. I'm still working on this with mine who didn't get why I wouldn't hold her hand and play kissy-face while taking the kid Trick or Treating on a pitch-****ing-black street. Just how the hell am I supposed to play grab ass with you, keep and eye on the kid and watch our backs while being prepared to "pour on the hate" should a threat appear?
Mine still gives me shit when I want to face the door at an establishment. That should give you a clue at what I'm working with. The level of ignorance is staggering and maddening to say the least.
What happens when the purse gets snatched? That's what I've always wondered about carrying in a purse/murse. My girl and I have been trying to figure out the best pistol and method for her to carry as well. It really isn't easy when the girl still wants to look like one. I'm still pretty intrigued with this: http://www.flashbangholster.com/Flashbang_Holster/Welcome.html. It really does seem like a viable option.
Here's a video showing options for a woman, by a woman. Maybe this will help if the wife/girlfriend views it and others that are available.
http://youtu.be/ogGBPVk5GQk
I'll tell you my experience with my lovely, talented, liberal, wannabe buddhist, Nurse, wife. When we first starting dating she said "no guns in my house ever". I responded that to me that was like saying "no fire extinguishers in my house, ever"... Thus began the education process. Here is what worked for me:
1) Be very highly skilled yourself. Make sure she knows that you are not going to shoot her, her cat, or the guy in the mirror.
2) Be moderate in your temper. If you suffer from road rage, testosterone poisoning, or take to flipping people off on a regular basis, it increases her anxiety level.
3) Start with pepper spray. Get her carrying that. Then a a blade...
4) My best friend say to her "you're leaving the hospital at night and someone gets in your face what would you do" - Wife:"I'd pepper spray him". "And if he grabbed you"? Wife" I'd stab him in the neck until he let go". Friend: "So this is not a discussion about hurting other people, its about gear...". The light went on in her head.
5) Put no pressure on her, but teach her female friends to shoot. Find other woman who shoot and makes sure that she sees that she can still be a feminine, liberal, hippy, buddhist AND carry life saving equipment.
My experience is that we often try to meet people where we think they should be - where we are. We need to meet students where they are. Everyone has a currency that the care about. Black people: "You ever been harassed by a bunch of red necks". Woman: "are you and your kids worth defending". Gay People: "Every been bashed? Know someone who has?". Old People "you're too old to run and too fat to fly... what you gonna do?"Its not a right wing/left wing thing. My colleague starts every lecture with "everyone here is magnificent, unique, and irreplaceable, and no one has the right to take you away from the people who depend on you". Hard to argue with that. Once you get that across its about gear.
The bonus... You get left wing, minority, gay, hippy, buddhists watching Top Shot, shooting, and advocating for gun rights.
I may have to try something like this. My wife and I have kids now and I am wondering if I should revisit the self defense mentality. I mentioned to her that there was a registered sex offender in OUR neighborhood. The look on her face was priceless. When I told her what this persons offense was, she went ape. She looked at my face at stated "he should have his balls and cock cut off, ****ing lowlife scum". :eek: Whoa! I knew there was fire and now I have seen it first hand.
Walther P99. She will fall in love with it as soon as she puts her hand on the grip!
That's a great video!!!!! My GF has that same body type except she's an inch taller. Very similar style as well. Completely different attitude though. I have to say I wish my GF had all that stuff and such interest in the topic as the girl in the video. I'm very impressed with her.
R.
St.Michael
11-04-11, 08:23
My gf was raised in a gun store. Although she still doesn't know TOO much about it, it makes it really easy when I tell her I need a new gun and she just shrugs and says ok. Sooooo I can't say I have the same problems as you guys. On another note, if my girl gave me "shit" about wanting to face the door or any other thing to help us be more aware I would throw her to the curb. If someone is that opposite of me I just wouldn't be able to stand them. I took a girl on a date one time and we went to a bad part of town. We were at a movie theater and when I mumbled I wish I had carried and would of if I knew we were going their she was like "nothing bad can happen at the movies" and "you are too paranoid". There had been a shooting a month before at the same place. I didn't bother with her much after that.
Maybe you can just let her carry extra mags for YOU :)
I've gotten the impression it's more of a convenience things with her. She's told me she like it when I carry, that it makes her feel better. But then when I walk behind her as we're getting seated at a restaurant and she picks the seat facing the door and tell her let me sit there, she gives me a little crap, "nothing is going to happen". Like I said, it pisses me off at no end. It's weird, it a hit or miss with her. Whatever!!!!
I'll tell you my experience with my lovely, talented, liberal, wannabe buddhist, Nurse, wife. When we first starting dating she said "no guns in my house ever". I responded that to me that was like saying "no fire extinguishers in my house, ever"... Thus began the education process. Here is what worked for me:
1) Be very highly skilled yourself. Make sure she knows that you are not going to shoot her, her cat, or the guy in the mirror.
2) Be moderate in your temper. If you suffer from road rage, testosterone poisoning, or take to flipping people off on a regular basis, it increases her anxiety level.
3) Start with pepper spray. Get her carrying that. Then a a blade...
4) My best friend say to her "you're leaving the hospital at night and someone gets in your face what would you do" - Wife:"I'd pepper spray him". "And if he grabbed you"? Wife" I'd stab him in the neck until he let go". Friend: "So this is not a discussion about hurting other people, its about gear...". The light went on in her head.
5) Put no pressure on her, but teach her female friends to shoot. Find other woman who shoot and makes sure that she sees that she can still be a feminine, liberal, hippy, buddhist AND carry life saving equipment.
My experience is that we often try to meet people where we think they should be - where we are. We need to meet students where they are. Everyone has a currency that the care about. Black people: "You ever been harassed by a bunch of red necks". Woman: "are you and your kids worth defending". Gay People: "Every been bashed? Know someone who has?". Old People "you're too old to run and too fat to fly... what you gonna do?"Its not a right wing/left wing thing. My colleague starts every lecture with "everyone here is magnificent, unique, and irreplaceable, and no one has the right to take you away from the people who depend on you". Hard to argue with that. Once you get that across its about gear.
The bonus... You get left wing, minority, gay, hippy, buddhists watching Top Shot, shooting, and advocating for gun rights.
Wise words, sir.
The level of ignorance is staggering and maddening to say the least.
Yes. Yes it is. This is the primary reason why it is imperative that you "assist" her in her selection. While renting and shooting a wide variety of handguns is an excellent idea, her focus may be on non-essential characteristics of the weapon. That is, she may need you to explain that her 19 may be less concealable and less comfortable to shoot but the last damned thing going through her mind when she presents the weapon in a real defensive gunfight will be "Thank god my gun is so comfortable." So if she just falls in love with an early-gen PF-9 or sacrifices the practicality of her 19's utter reliability and relatively massive mag capacity in the name of a more comfortable Khar, remind her that an assailant will not give two shits how comfortable her gun is and that comfort has never been a weapon characteristic that will save your life.
If the G19 is too big for her, have you tried shaving down the finger grooves and stippling the grip? I did that with a friends g19 and it helped quite a bit.
If the G19 is too big for her, have you tried shaving down the finger grooves and stippling the grip? I did that with a friends g19 and it helped quite a bit.
Actually we did. I know Ben from Boresights Solutions, we live in the same city. We met with up with him one day and went over the different solutions he had and she made her choice. As I was getting ready to send it off, she told me to hold off and not spend the money since she doesn't really shoot a lot etc, etc..... so I did. Looking back at it now I probably should have had it done regardless. But on the flip side of that, I didn't want to spend the money if the gun was going to just sit there, especially since at the time she just had it in a night stand next to the bed. If she was a little more receptive or was willing to train a little more, then it would be no question. You guys know what i mean?
She's so on the fence about it, really on the fence, and it's making me hold back as well.
I need her to commit just a tad, and she's not there yet. To be honest this is more me than her, sometimes.
What happens when the purse gets snatched? That's what I've always wondered about carrying in a purse/murse. My girl and I have been trying to figure out the best pistol and method for her to carry as well. It really isn't easy when the girl still wants to look like one. I'm still pretty intrigued with this: http://www.flashbangholster.com/Flashbang_Holster/Welcome.html. It really does seem like a viable option.
rather ingenious but awkward to train with at the range :o
What happens when the purse gets snatched? That's what I've always wondered about carrying in a purse/murse. My girl and I have been trying to figure out the best pistol and method for her to carry as well. It really isn't easy when the girl still wants to look like one. I'm still pretty intrigued with this: http://www.flashbangholster.com/Flashbang_Holster/Welcome.html. It really does seem like a viable option.
Can't guarantee it won't happen, good point to bring up...that's why my wife goes to Krav with me, can't hide behind a gun. Well she used to, recent health issues have got her too tired for it :sad:
She's so on the fence about it, really on the fence, and it's making me hold back as well.
I need her to commit just a tad, and she's not there yet. To be honest this is more me than her, sometimes.
At some point you'll realize that she's already made up her mind about it but she's not going to tell you because you should "already know". :rolleyes: Read between the lines man.
My advice, stop pushing the issue if you haven't yet fully convinced her that she needs to be able to protect herself you're putting the cart before the horse and then pushing the horse. Things will be much easier once [if?] she "gets it".
At some point you'll realize that she's already made up her mind about it but she's not going to tell you because you should "already know". :rolleyes: Read between the lines man.
My advice, stop pushing the issue if you haven't yet fully convinced her that she needs to be able to protect herself you're putting the cart before the horse and then pushing the horse. Things will be much easier once [if?] she "gets it".
I think you're right. Women and THEIR lines!!!!
It just pisses me off, because when bad things happen we have to pick up the pieces or deal with something that was maybe avoidable and there's no reason to be in that position. You have all the information and resources to prepare, it's just stupid not to. This falls under the 6Ps. and I know it's very anal but it works, "proper planning prevents piss poor performance".
Well she just sent me an email and said she would go to the range and test a few different systems. She also said she would consider to carry on her body. I guess the girl video with all the holsters touched home a bit. I'm glad.
I think you're right. Women and THEIR lines!!!!
It just pisses me off, because when bad things happen we have to pick up the pieces or deal with something that was maybe avoidable and there's no reason to be in that position. You have all the information and resources to prepare, it's just stupid not to. This falls under the 6Ps. and I know it's very anal but it works, "proper planning prevents piss poor performance".
Well she just sent me an email and said she would go to the range and test a few different systems. She also said she would consider to carry on her body. I guess the girl video with all the holsters touched home a bit. I'm glad.
It's entirely possible to carry a gun and be completely unarmed.
Take her to one of these first:
http://www.nrahq.org/rtbav/
It's entirely possible to carry a gun and be completely unarmed.
Take her to one of these first:
http://www.nrahq.org/rtbav/
yeahhh!!!!!!! (sigh) tell me about it.
Magic_Salad0892
11-04-11, 14:18
I once asked my girlfriend what she would do in the event of a rape.
Here was my response:
Her: ''I'd draw my trusty P2000, and do my best Borat impression. YOU WILL NEVER GET THIS. YOU WILL NEVER GET THIS.''
Me: ''And if he decides to attack you anyway?''
Her : ''Well... he wouldn't ever see his wife again. At least I'd still get to see mine though...''
She carries a HK P2000 LEM. She used to carry V3 but found that she'd slap the trigger in SA due to her being used to the double action pull of LEM, and DA first shots.
Her dad taught her on revolvers, and the Makarov, and her first pistol was a USP9-C.
She's been a loyal HK fan since we were like 13 or something.
St.Michael
11-04-11, 19:16
I once asked my girlfriend what she would do in the event of a rape.
Here was my response:
Her: ''I'd draw my trusty P2000, and do my best Borat impression. YOU WILL NEVER GET THIS. YOU WILL NEVER GET THIS.''
Me: ''And if he decides to attack you anyway?''
Her : ''Well... he wouldn't ever see his wife again. At least I'd still get to see mine though...''
She carries a HK P2000 LEM. She used to carry V3 but found that she'd slap the trigger in SA due to her being used to the double action pull of LEM, and DA first shots.
Her dad taught her on revolvers, and the Makarov, and her first pistol was a USP9-C.
She's been a loyal HK fan since we were like 13 or something.
That's hawt. Keep her. Any girl that loves HK can't be all bad.
I'm still pretty intrigued with this: http://www.flashbangholster.com/Flashbang_Holster/Welcome.html. It really does seem like a viable option.
You're joking, right?
:blink: Right??
Someone, please tell me he's joking.
St.Michael
11-07-11, 13:43
You're joking, right?
:blink: Right??
Someone, please tell me he's joking.
Man I tell you what those pictures aren't half bad. Or one maybe. But yea that is one funky holster
Funky really isn't quite the word I would have chosen. BUT, yes, there is at least one good picture in that album. :agree:
There's a Freudian joke hidden within that particular choice of emoticons....:p
I think much of the advice here while tactically sound is not very REALISTIC.
Most women dont want to carry. Most men want to carry but dont. Why? Because on body carry is uncomfortable, a significant hassle and can land you in jail with one false move even in most "gun friendly" states.
Besides the whole where to carry issue (previously covered), is the size and shape of the woman. It varies enormously. Starting as small as possible and working up is a fool proof way to make carry happen if it's going to happen at all.
That said I know there are 2 guns that are 1) light, small, and thin 2) relatively comfortable to shoot and everyone can shoot decently enough to hit an 18 inch area on a man sized target a 7 yards with rapid fire), and 3) easily concealable in most places by most people. One is the Kahr P380 the other is the Sig P238. These are the best small pistols available. (P3AT and the LCP do not measure up.) The P238 feels better in the hand and is more fun to shoot and has the best sights on a small pistol BUT that safety is not the easiest to remember and get disengaged under stress; in addition, the gun should be carried cocked and locked. I am not too fond of a cocked and locked pocket or purse carry pistol. So I would say go for the Kahr P380. Just make sure you break it in (200 rounds) AND make sure the you don't get premature slide lock due to upward hand pressure. When your wife says she cant conceal the P380 she is not being truthful and you know the real issue then. In the meantime she is training for moving up to the "big brother" in the form of the Kahr PM9. (Stick to 115 gr at first 147 has more recoil in the PM9.) Dont let anyone try to persuade you into something bigger. Just carry FMJ (particularly flat nose); hollowpoints are a waste in short barrel 380s. When the P380 carry is habitual and comfortable then encourage her (but dont pressure her) to graduate to the PM9. (Go try one out at a range but only after using the P380 for a while). Given your girlfriend's reaction to the 19 I don't think she will ever go bigger than the PM9 form factor. The reason we are stuck with the PM9 is the fact that imports are subject to the BAFTE point system which nixes small guns.
I tried the other way of working down in size and staying in a major caliber. What a waste of money and effort. The HK P2000SK and M+Pc are bigger than a Glock 26 (which is the same thickness as the 19), the PPS is only thinner than the Glock 26 but overall a little larger (BAFTE again). Indeed all of the these weigh over 20 ounces unloaded. Before you know it you will have abox of holsters and a safe full of guns and still no girlfriend carry (and maybe not girlfriend). (Unless that is what you want ;-).) The P380 is highly concealable but still shootable.
In FMJ form at close ranges an unexpanded hollowpoint 9mm and a 380 are closer than most people think. The 3 shots of FMJ 380 is sufficient for most tasks (to get the hell out of there) assuming a 50% hit rate.
Pay close attention to the holster--barely there is the best option. I think the thin kydex by FIST while pricey are the best and well as a very thin leather holster that cant be reholstered easily. Most people obsess about the gun then get a fat or bulky holster that adds nearly as much dimension to these small guns--which defeats their purpose. Might as well carry a PM9 with a thin holster.
Your Girlfriend rocks Magic Salad.
I once asked my girlfriend what she would do in the event of a rape.
Here was my response:
Her: ''I'd draw my trusty P2000, and do my best Borat impression. YOU WILL NEVER GET THIS. YOU WILL NEVER GET THIS.''
Me: ''And if he decides to attack you anyway?''
Her : ''Well... he wouldn't ever see his wife again. At least I'd still get to see mine though...''
She carries a HK P2000 LEM. She used to carry V3 but found that she'd slap the trigger in SA due to her being used to the double action pull of LEM, and DA first shots.
Her dad taught her on revolvers, and the Makarov, and her first pistol was a USP9-C.
She's been a loyal HK fan since we were like 13 or something.
Awesome!
My wife has a girlfriend that is completely appalled by the fact that she (my wife) carry's a gun. So much so that it's causing issues between them.
I happened to be present the last time it came up & my wife had had enough, it went as follows.........
Wife's friend: I just can't understand why you need a gun to go shopping? It's dangerous!
My wife: Have you ever been raped?
Wife's friend: No! Have you?
My Wife: Nope, and I damned well plan on keeping it that way!
End of discussion.
God I love that girl!:D
got my wife a Tanfoglio FT9 two years ago. back then i was usually on 24 hour duty 2-3 times a week and our neighborhood was.... less than ideal. she would sleep with my Tanfoglio Force 9 out of the drawer i usually kept it. anyway, she actually found it difficult using a 9mm or my 1911 45 (delicate hands) and since she an ophthalmologist, she doesn't want those hands bruised too much. in the end she settled on a Tanfoglio FT9 in .380. i think it had to do with the fact that the grips of the FT9 were done in pink. :sarcastic:
I'm going through this now with my wife. She already has her CCW permit and she's not opposed to carrying at all, but wants a small gun. Her dad just got a Kel-Tec P32 and she shot it at Thanksgiving and really liked it. Personally, I would prefer that she carried a little more gun than that, but ultimately I would rather she carried a .32 than nothing at all. She also shot my M&P9c some and did ok with it, considering she doesn't shoot pistols much. (We would both benefit from professional instruction, which I hope to remedy in the coming months.) Her brother helped her with her grip and it got even better. Ultimately she feels that pistol is just too big to carry on her person though. We're going out looking some more tomorrow. I hope she finds something she will be comfortable with soon, even if it is only a .32.
Have any of you guys had your wives or girlfriends try this one?
http://www.kimberamerica.com/solo/solo-carry/solo-carry
So, my wife has a lot of background with LE and firearms. Several years ago she decided my Glock 19 that she carried was too large so we started looking for something smaller.
We started with the Glock 27 and Kahr PM9 that live in my back up gear. She thought drawing the slide back on the Kahr was a pain and she did not like the feel of the G27 versus my G19.
Fast forward a year.... we had carried, tested and lived with a stack of Glocks, fondled a Walther PPS a lot, shot and carried the Smith & Wesson M&P in .45ACP, 9mm and .40 S&W, H&K in .40 and .45ACP, Sigs in 9mm, .40 and .45ACP and the XD platform in .40 and .45.....
After everything was said and done I bought her a Smith & Wesson M&P 9c on her request. She loves the pistol and is very concerned any time it goes near my gear.
The major factors in her decision: ease of manipulation of the slide and controls and trigger reach. The M&P covered both, with all other platforms compromising one or the other for her hands.
Accessories she would like this year: Pink grip inserts for the M&P, new purse, and a Walther P22 for use with a suppressor. Sounds doable to me.
The bottom line is creating the interest. It is possible. However, you may get stuck watching some terrible television, broadway shows or some other crud as part of the compromise.
Good luck.
Accessories she would like this year: Pink grip inserts for the M&P, new purse, and a Walther P22 for use with a suppressor. Sounds doable to me.
The bottom line is creating the interest. It is possible. However, you may get stuck watching some terrible television, broadway shows or some other crud as part of the compromise.
Good luck.
lol, i hear you. although i used to regularly go to the range, i used to have to drag my wife there. the only reason she got a gun was due to the security condition where we used to live. that all changed when she found out that Armscor here brought out a limited edition Tanfoglio FT9 with a pink polymer frame and a pink leather case to go with it :)
Have any of you guys had your wives or girlfriends try this one?
http://www.kimberamerica.com/solo/solo-carry/solo-carry
I shot one of these. Unreliable, and unimpressive. I'd rather have a kahr.
My mom is 65 and has not carried a pistol in 30 years. She got her concealed carry in SC and asked me to help her find a carry weapon. We tried several and for her the best choice was a Ruger LCR in a .38 Special. It was concealable, easy to operate and packed enough punch.
Have you taken a look at the new Berretta nano, I just picked one up for my fiance to try out. She is a glock fan but the 19 gets a little cumbersome for her. The nano is a very similar design to glock but smaller and thinner. It's a new design so there is the possibility of flaws and growing pains but so far mine has worked well. 200 rounds with no hiccups. With the berretta rebate it comes to $350
NEVER......and I mean, NEVER.......buy a gun for a woman without her telling you to buy it for her. If she doesn't like its weight, size, recoil, eronomics, balance, color, fashion statement,.......etc......she will NOT carry it. Women in general, find every excuse imaginable not to carry a gun. It's hard enough to get a woman to carry a gun when she does like the gun.
My wife went and bought herself a Kel-Tec P32. I really wanted her to get something bigger, but this is what she wanted. I suppose the .32 she has with her is better than the 9mm she left at home.
I shot one of these. Unreliable, and unimpressive. I'd rather have a kahr.Kimbers are really low end , low quality guns.
the G26 is invisible on most people....
that said, a smith and wesson j-frame is all i can really imagine a young lady being happy concealing... they're hard to shoot but not impossible, and 5 rounds beats the crap out of a sharp stick.
honestly to me the jury is still out on all those little semi-auto pocket pistols.... well, the 380 and 32's i'd scratch right off. the j-frame has been saving people's asses for many years... all while allowing the user to remain comfortable and stylish.
that said, i (and i think most of the guys on this board) carry a g19... I don't personally find it too hard to conceal, and if shit truly goes wrong i can't think of anything short of a rifle i'd rather have on me. That said, like most of the guys here i'm a somewhat militant gun nut (by most standards anyway)
so basically the gun must fit the lifestyle... but the user must train.Once you realize the shooting distance in self defense and what is really needed the J frames are wonderful.
I think much of the advice here while tactically sound is not very REALISTIC.
Most women dont want to carry. Most men want to carry but dont. Why? Because on body carry is uncomfortable, a significant hassle and can land you in jail with one false move even in most "gun friendly" states.
Besides the whole where to carry issue (previously covered), is the size and shape of the woman. It varies enormously. Starting as small as possible and working up is a fool proof way to make carry happen if it's going to happen at all.
That said I know there are 2 guns that are 1) light, small, and thin 2) relatively comfortable to shoot and everyone can shoot decently enough to hit an 18 inch area on a man sized target a 7 yards with rapid fire), and 3) easily concealable in most places by most people. One is the Kahr P380 the other is the Sig P238. These are the best small pistols available. (P3AT and the LCP do not measure up.) The P238 feels better in the hand and is more fun to shoot and has the best sights on a small pistol BUT that safety is not the easiest to remember and get disengaged under stress; in addition, the gun should be carried cocked and locked. I am not too fond of a cocked and locked pocket or purse carry pistol. So I would say go for the Kahr P380. Just make sure you break it in (200 rounds) AND make sure the you don't get premature slide lock due to upward hand pressure. When your wife says she cant conceal the P380 she is not being truthful and you know the real issue then. In the meantime she is training for moving up to the "big brother" in the form of the Kahr PM9. (Stick to 115 gr at first 147 has more recoil in the PM9.) Dont let anyone try to persuade you into something bigger. Just carry FMJ (particularly flat nose); hollowpoints are a waste in short barrel 380s. When the P380 carry is habitual and comfortable then encourage her (but dont pressure her) to graduate to the PM9. (Go try one out at a range but only after using the P380 for a while). Given your girlfriend's reaction to the 19 I don't think she will ever go bigger than the PM9 form factor. The reason we are stuck with the PM9 is the fact that imports are subject to the BAFTE point system which nixes small guns.
I tried the other way of working down in size and staying in a major caliber. What a waste of money and effort. The HK P2000SK and M+Pc are bigger than a Glock 26 (which is the same thickness as the 19), the PPS is only thinner than the Glock 26 but overall a little larger (BAFTE again). Indeed all of the these weigh over 20 ounces unloaded. Before you know it you will have abox of holsters and a safe full of guns and still no girlfriend carry (and maybe not girlfriend). (Unless that is what you want ;-).) The P380 is highly concealable but still shootable.
In FMJ form at close ranges an unexpanded hollowpoint 9mm and a 380 are closer than most people think. The 3 shots of FMJ 380 is sufficient for most tasks (to get the hell out of there) assuming a 50% hit rate.
Pay close attention to the holster--barely there is the best option. I think the thin kydex by FIST while pricey are the best and well as a very thin leather holster that cant be reholstered easily. Most people obsess about the gun then get a fat or bulky holster that adds nearly as much dimension to these small guns--which defeats their purpose. Might as well carry a PM9 with a thin holster.
While you have some good points I disagree with the comment on the LCP. Why do you think it doesn't measure up? I have well over 600 rds of HST through my wife's LCP with no issues, as for accuracy I can empty a mag rapid fire in a 6" square at 10 yards. IMO it is a viable option.
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