View Full Version : M&P .40 or 9mm????
TeamGrazzi
11-02-11, 16:52
Ok so I fired both of these at the range a few weeks ago and was blown away at how much better these were than my XD 9mm. This weapon fits so beautifully in my hand and is really accurate in both 9 and .40 that I just can't decide which to buy! Although I will say that when I bump up the bullet size on the .40 to 180gr my groups where not as tight and the time between shots was longer (but that is to be expected I would think). The planned uses for this pistol:
1. HD - I will be getting a light and it will be in the holster on the side of my bed for when things go bump in the night.
2. Range - target practice
3. I would like to get into shooting matches (IDPA and such) and take a few classes (wife permitting)
4. It would be my carry weapon if Illinois wasn't so freakin stupid!!
Also from what I have read Safariland and Raven are the way to go for holsters?? Which would be best to use for competitions?
~Thanks in advance :thank_you2:
St.Michael
11-02-11, 17:05
I am sitting in the same boat as you are my friend. I also just shot the m&p 2 weekends ago to test out how I liked it. I am going back Monday to rent and shoot it again. What light are you thinking? Raven is a great company for carry holsters. I had one for my g19 which I just sold the other day since I don't have a Glock anymore. But my next purchase will involve a raven holster also.
So you are slower and less accurate with the .40, which also has a lower capacity mag, and you already have a 9mm? Get the 9mm!
Ok so I fired both of these at the range a few weeks ago and was blown away at how much better these were than my XD 9mm. This weapon fits so beautifully in my hand and is really accurate in both 9 and .40 that I just can't decide which to buy! Although I will say that when I bump up the bullet size on the .40 to 180gr my groups where not as tight and the time between shots was longer (but that is to be expected I would think). The planned uses for this pistol:
1. HD - I will be getting a light and it will be in the holster on the side of my bed for when things go bump in the night.
2. Range - target practice
3. I would like to get into shooting matches (IDPA and such) and take a few classes (wife permitting)
4. It would be my carry weapon if Illinois wasn't so freakin stupid!!
Also from what I have read Safariland and Raven are the way to go for holsters?? Which would be best to use for competitions?
~Thanks in advance :thank_you2:
9mm ammo is going to be cheaper and if you get the good 9mm jhp ammo it is just as deadly as .40.
RiflemanBobcat
11-02-11, 17:36
So you are slower and less accurate with the .40, which also has a lower capacity mag, and you already have a 9mm? Get the 9mm!
Basically this. If you're doing better with the 9mm and you already stock the caliber....why not keep your ammo needs consistent?
If I remember right, unless you have a need to be shooting through windshields, car bodies, or similarly difficult barriers, .40 S&W really offers almost no advantage over 9mm.
That assumes quality JHP ammo, of course (for example, the loads listed in DocGKR's excellent recommendation thread)
Get the .40, and a 9mm conversion barrel (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=76343/pid=40296/Product/S-W-M-P-BARREL-CONVERSION?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&mc_id=10000&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c187_a_7c3466_a_7c842000058_d_842000058_d_10529).
William B.
11-02-11, 18:21
9mm ammo is going to be cheaper and if you get the good 9mm jhp ammo it is just as deadly as .40.
This. If money is an issue and you can train more with less expensive ammunition then why wouldn't you go with the 9mm?
Get the .40, and a 9mm conversion barrel (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=76343/pid=40296/Product/S-W-M-P-BARREL-CONVERSION?utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase&mc_id=10000&gdftrk=gdfV21820_a_7c187_a_7c3466_a_7c842000058_d_842000058_d_10529).
are there any downsides to this? i've been wanting to sell one of my .40's and just buy a 9mm for comp and cheaper ammo mainly. and even when i DID get the 9mm i was going to get an threaded barrel for a suppressor so this kills two birds with one stone?
if there are no reliability issues and i can just use 9mm mags/ammo than i will just go this route. or does a barrel change basically do all the work? i can imagine i would need to change the spring as well?
are there any downsides to this? i've been wanting to sell one of my .40's and just buy a 9mm for comp and cheaper ammo mainly. and even when i DID get the 9mm i was going to get an threaded barrel for a suppressor so this kills two birds with one stone?
if there are no reliability issues and i can just use 9mm mags/ammo than i will just go this route. or does a barrel change basically do all the work? i can imagine i would need to change the spring as well?
Downsides:
Possible FTE issues
Possible barrel lockup issues
Possible feed issues
Need new magazines
Extractor was designed for .40 S&W and may not like 9mm
No recoil spring change is required in the M&P. The stock RSA spring weight is 16 lbs. for both the 9mm and .40 S&W.
You may get one that works well, the above downsides are only possibilities, and fairly remote ones. You pays your monies and you takes your chances.
You might be better served buying reloading equipment though. A lightly loaded .40 S&W with 180 gr. bullets and a fast burning powder is the heat in competition, and one gun can shoot multiple divisions simply by changing your load. Reloading will save you more than just a switch to factory 9mm also.
If your going to shoot alot of competition with it and can ONLY buy one gun I'd go with the. 40. Knocking down steel with 9mm can be tedious at times. A 9mm conversion would be cool but with just one gun and it being used for competition, range time, & SD AND swapping out barrels between applications equals alot of rezeroing. The issue you have with shooting a .40 as far as groups go (assuming quality ammo was used) will be cleaned up w/trigger time & instruction.
-Jax
TeamGrazzi
11-02-11, 22:48
The group size difference was from switching from 165gr to 180gr with the .40. I was just as accurate with the 165gr as I was with the 9mm. I kept the target for comparison I will take a picture of them tomorrow and post it so you can see what I mean.
As for the barrel conversion... Those things have always made me a little nervous. I don't want to jack up my gun shooting it an unintended way. I know a few guys that had .22 conversions for 1911's and m4s only to have it effect the weapon when they tried to use it in the normal configuration.
TeamGrazzi
11-03-11, 07:41
First 2 are the .40 last one was the 9mm(although I am sure you all could have figured that out on your own). These were shot from various distances of 20' - 35'. Funny thing is all of these are better shot groups than what I get with either my XD9 or my bro-in-laws Glock 22
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq146/teamgrazzi/180gr40.jpg
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq146/teamgrazzi/165gr40.jpg
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq146/teamgrazzi/115gr9.jpg
Looks like you shot best with the 165gr .40 load. I have the M&P .40 in medium and compact models and I love them. Both are very accurate, reliable, easy recoiling pistols with 180gr ammo which is a plentious and popular load for the .40 caliber. I dumped all my 9mm pistols and switched to .40 caliber. I like it better than 9mm, for personal reasons though.
RogerinTPA
11-03-11, 10:59
I have the M&P45, 40, 9 (X2), & 9c. I thoroughly enjoy shooting all of them, but in today's economy and shooting thousands of rounds a year like I do, the M&P9 is the ticket. Since I train a lot, I have two of the 9s, one strictly for training with about 15K+ rounds on, and one for the girlfriend or as a spare. The 40 & 45 get a few mags at each range session, but that's it these days. If you have the means, get both, otherwise, get the 9mm. Like others have stated, it's cheaper to operate.
St.Michael
11-03-11, 14:07
I just ran into a friend of mine and it turns out he owns an m&p with an apex kit. Says it is simply to die for. And grant offers that package I believe.
i think i'm going to go ahead and get a 9mm and unload one of my .40's
if anyone wants to buy my .40 w/ literally 50 rounds through it pm me... it has the thumb safety option :D . i'll post an official "for sale" thread soon in the classifieds (haven't reached the minimum post limit yet) but i plan on being alot more active on the forum now that i'm getting back into shooting alot again)
I also was interested in the reliability/accuracy of switching my barrels from .40 to 9mm but my gunsmith (who smiths for my dept. of 1600 LEO's) assured me that the .40 can switch from .40 to 9mm barrels with no other modification without ill effects to the gun.
I purchased a "factory" S&W 9mm barrel and it seems to work fine through several hundred rounds thus far. No problems at this time, best of both worlds. Good Luck.
decisions decisions! i guess i'm going to call lakeland and see what kind of advice they have
For practice I have 9mm conversion barrels for my 40 Glocks (22s & 27s) as well as my 40 M&Ps (4.25 " barrel & compact). They work fine for practice and cut down ammo costs. I would not use them for cc or duty. You do have to use 9mm magazines with them. The barrel and magazines are all you need for the conversion.
I have a 9mm 1911 for practice.
I do practice with my guns using 40 (S&W M&Ps and Glocks) and .45 (1911s) but get much more practice in, due to ammo costs, with the 9mms.
TeamGrazzi
11-05-11, 06:23
@AZ Doug... And you have no accuracy issues from switching barrels?
As Roberts has frequently said, the M&P series excels with both the 9mm and .40, so which you choose will depend on your needs. If you are looking wanting a caliber that is more barrier blind, such as shooting through windshields/doors/barricades, then the .40 is a better load. Since the M&P is optimized around the .40, the only real disadvantage you can put your finger on to the caliber is the price of training ammunition. Now days, you can get cheap brassed cased 9mm for around $.20 a shot if you buy in 1000rd cases. The .40 is around $.30 a shot by the case, and the .45acp is around $.34 a shot by the case. So what you go with depends on your budget, how much ammo you go through in training, and if you are concerned with shooting through barriers.
mkmckinley
11-05-11, 09:00
Oh great, a caliber debate. Do some poking around on here, especially the terminal ballistics section, and make an informed decision on caliber. Looking at your targets I'd say buy a 9mm, a bunch of ammo, and some competent training. Focus on learning how to group first.
Conversion barrels don't run well in my experience, though I've only used them with Glocks and drop in fit barrels. A smith fit barrel might be a different story but for the price you're almost better off just getting another gun. I did the conversion barrel thing with Glocks a few years ago before I realized that I had no reason to own or shoot .40 S&W. I got rid of all my .40s and now just shoot 9mm and am very satisfied with that decision. I look at 9mm as a perfect self defense round in terms of effectiveness, shootability, and cost. In my eyes .40 S&W is a cop round for shooting through windshields and whatnot. For a private citizen I don't think it's worth the hassle.
Ok so I fired both of these at the range a few weeks ago and was blown away at how much better these were than my XD 9mm. This weapon fits so beautifully in my hand and is really accurate in both 9 and .40 that I just can't decide which to buy! Although I will say that when I bump up the bullet size on the .40 to 180gr my groups where not as tight and the time between shots was longer (but that is to be expected I would think). The planned uses for this pistol:
1. HD - I will be getting a light and it will be in the holster on the side of my bed for when things go bump in the night.
2. Range - target practice
3. I would like to get into shooting matches (IDPA and such) and take a few classes (wife permitting)
4. It would be my carry weapon if Illinois wasn't so freakin stupid!!
Also from what I have read Safariland and Raven are the way to go for holsters?? Which would be best to use for competitions?
~Thanks in advance :thank_you2:
I'd choose 9mm. I don't generally like .40 polymer guns personally. Todays ammo, terminal ballistics difference is minimal*, less recoil/faster follow up shots with 9mm, more $$$ for ammo and training (unless your job supplies it), higher cap, etc.
IDPA: if you are competing in IDPA to simply enjoy and work on your own shooting, shoot what you will carry and be happy. If competing to compete against other shooters, you will be in SSP. That means you will compete against shooters shooting 9mm guns, and high level competitors in IDPA in SSP (almost) universally shoot 9mm, because of the reduced recoil, faster follow up shots.
If I was going to get a M&P in a larger caliber then 9mm, I go .45 ACP at that point, but that's me. :cool:
* however, see docs comments on issues of intermediate barriers, etc
Nephrology
11-05-11, 09:47
If I was going to get a M&P in a larger caliber then 9mm, I go .45 ACP at that point, but that's me. :cool:
* however, see docs comments on issues of intermediate barriers, etc
My thoughts exactly.
Go with 9mm simply for the savings, you won't be shorted on terminal performance. These days with the right loads you are splitting hairs between 9mm/.40/.45.
If your going to shoot alot of competition with it and can ONLY buy one gun I'd go with the. 40. Knocking down steel with 9mm can be tedious at times.
And you will be eaten for lunch by those shooting 9mm in IDPA (the comp he mentioned specifically). He will be in Standard Service Pistol (SSP) with that M&P. There are steel targets in IDPA, but vast majority of the time, it's IDPA targets. Yes, steel needs a better placed shot with 9mm, but it's not offset by the other 90% of the time the time lost with IDPA targets shooting a polymer .40.
If the shooter is there to simply enjoy competing against themselves and improve their own shooting skills, shoot what you carry and drive on.
If looking to be competitive against other shooters in your ranking and division, you'll find 9mm tends to rule.
I shot CDP for a long time as it's .45 ACP 1911, and I enjoyed that too.
The group size difference was from switching from 165gr to 180gr with the .40. I was just as accurate with the 165gr as I was with the 9mm.
Accuracy, and accuracy under time, are two very different issues. If I put a timer on you, and make you push your time, you will either take longer to stay as accurate, or your accuracy will suffer, compared to 9mm.
To truly be as accurate with a .40 (all things being equal) vs 9mm, takes a lot of range time and ammo, and I personally only know a few people that are truly able to do it. Now, one can of course debate the slight increase in time lost is offset by the slightly larger hole made and so forth, and that's all valid discussion, but shear accuracy comparisons without time factor added, is not (in my view...) useful info if discussing SD issues with different calibers and so forth.
@AZ Doug... And you have no accuracy issues from switching barrels?
No. No more POA/POI shift than changing load in the same caliber (40 S&W 155 gr to 180 gr) Most of my handgun shooting is 25 yds and in. Sometimes we set USPSA, IDPA or steel targets out to 60 yds, but very seldom. No issues.
IDPA or steel targets out to 60 yds,.
Glad I don't shoot at your matches! :D
Glad I don't shoot at your matches! :D
Not matches, 5 to 10 of us get together every Friday and practice. Every once in a while someone will set up a long shot or two in order to force the shooter to slow down...
Our matches follow USPSA and IDPA rules, obviously depending on the discipline hosting the match.
Not matches, 5 to 10 of us get together every Friday and practice. Every once in a while someone will set up a long shot or two in order to force the shooter to slow down...
Our matches follow USPSA and IDPA rules, obviously depending on the discipline hosting the match.
Well that makes more sense. Don't think I have ever seen a target past 25 yards at an IDPA match, but I could be wrong there.
What is this slow down of which you speak? :D
From the IDPA rule book:
Course of Fire 2. Seventy-five percent of all shots required in a match
must be fifteen (15) yards or less. Occasional targets out to
thirty-five (35) yards are to be encouraged.
Most IDPA matches I have shot stick with the 15 yards or less.
TeamGrazzi
11-06-11, 06:49
Oh great, a caliber debate. Do some poking around on here, especially the terminal ballistics section, and make an informed decision on caliber. Looking at your targets I'd say buy a 9mm, a bunch of ammo, and some competent training. Focus on learning how to group first.
This wasn't meant as a "caliber debate", it was meant as a conversation. You know like you would have sitting at the bar after an afternoon of shooting with a bunch of guys just spitballing about a future weapons purchase. Since most of my friends and family don't know jack shit about guns I came here.
This wasn't meant as a "caliber debate", it was meant as a conversation. You know like you would have sitting at the bar after an afternoon of shooting with a bunch of guys just spitballing about a future weapons purchase. Since most of my friends and family don't know jack shit about guns I came here.
+1
When the OP asks if he should go 9mm or .40, then there will be some element of a caliber debate going on.
Nephrology
11-06-11, 07:35
+1
When the OP asks if he should go 9mm or .40, then there will be some element of a caliber debate going on.
Which is not the worst thing in the world if we don't devolve into shit-flinging rednecks hollerin' about STOPPIN POWER and how THEY ALL FALL TO HARDBALL....
hollerin' about STOPPIN POWER
In that case, it must be 10mm! :D
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b374/willbrink/BulletinGellatinComparison.jpg
From the IDPA rule book:
Course of Fire 2. Seventy-five percent of all shots required in a match
must be fifteen (15) yards or less. Occasional targets out to
thirty-five (35) yards are to be encouraged.
Most IDPA matches I have shot stick with the 15 yards or less.
Never seen a target yet at 35 yards* at IDPA in this area, but ranges around here rarely have distances like that for handgun that would fit into their range size/design, etc, so probably as much a factor as any you just don't see that in my area. On rare occasion, a 25 yard target.
It would be fun to shoot IDPA in states with much more open space and friendlier gun laws, like AZ (assuming by your name that's where you are) and the ilk.
*= which does not mean they don't exist around here, but not at any matches I have attended to date.
And you will be eaten for lunch by those shooting 9mm in IDPA (the comp he mentioned specifically). He will be in Standard Service Pistol (SSP) with that M&P. There are steel targets in IDPA, but vast majority of the time, it's IDPA targets. Yes, steel needs a better placed shot with 9mm, but it's not offset by the other 90% of the time the time lost with IDPA targets shooting a polymer .40.
If the shooter is there to simply enjoy competing against themselves and improve their own shooting skills, shoot what you carry and drive on.
If looking to be competitive against other shooters in your ranking and division, you'll find 9mm tends to rule.
I shot CDP for a long time as it's .45 ACP 1911, and I enjoyed that too.
Will,
Touche on that man and better advice than what i gave out.For some reason I missed the IDPA part. My apologies on that one!
-Jax
Will,
Touche on that man and better advice than what i gave out.For some reason I missed the IDPA part. My apologies on that one!
-Jax
None required, just adding the 411 where my limited brain power allows. :jester:
I shoot USPSA Production and a ton more Multigun. I use the M&P Pro 5inch 9mm for both. I'm running a Bladetech holster for both, but just put a Raven holster on order, which will be my new holster.
My carry gun is the standard M&P 9mm and I run it in either. Crossbreed IWB or a Raven LCH.
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