View Full Version : Colt 6920 MOE ?
Hi guys...
I'm new to ARs and have been reading for a while about it ...I'm not a LEO/Military/security.. so the rifle is not for duty, instead it is for some training, competition, and hope to enjoy some drill night.
After some reading and research and to don't drive myself crazy with all brands/models I am toward Colt or M&P..
I've read good reviews about the M&P as an entry level AR.. and it could serve for my purpose.
The thing is, the MP15A, X, MOE.. cost around $950 - $1050 online. but I found this colt 6920 MOE and I think it worth to pay a little more and get a colt..
Any thoughts?
Colt6920 (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2CTSP6920MPB-1.html)
M&P15X (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2SW811020-1.html)
I'm left eye dominant and right handed, and I've read about the RDS could be helpful. it's hard to me trying to use my right eye, or I could learn to use my left hand. So, for RDS is better a flip up front sight or the A2 style could be fine too?
what about the m&p15 rear sights of the M&P15 A, X, T, are those goods?
If I can find a really good deal in an M&P I could get it too.
Thanks
Here's my take.
If you can afford the extra couple hundred, get the colt. If not, the M&P will serve you well. I won't say it's just as good, but it's up there on the list of rifles that are good to go.
As for the rear sights. Both the rifles you linked to have the same magpul rear sight. I use one as well. I like it. Works great. I won't say it's as durable as a Troy folding rear sight, but it's servicable in rugged environments.
As for the RDS with left eye dom. It should be fine. Being right eye dom and right handed, I've not noticed any difference when shooting weak side. That would tell me that you shouldn't have any problems. Maybe someone with more qualifications about eye dom issues can chime in, but I don't see how an RDS wouldn't work for you. And the front sight type wouldn't matter one bit.
I personally would go at the Colt if I had to choose between the two. This is mostly due to my experience with the Colt AR-15's being so positive while I have pretty much no experience with the M&P15.
Also, note the two guns are a little different.
The Colt has a four-position buttstock as the M&P has a 6-position one.
The colt features a 1/7 twist barrel which means it can fire the larger military ammo whereas the M&P 15 has a 1/9 which is more standard lighter ammo that is usually what is on the shelf anyway. Both will handle pretty much any normal rounds you shoot... but personally the 1/7 is something I like.
The Colt also weighs less than the M&P by 0.55 lbs and comes with a MOE foregrip.
Now about your shooting predicament...
I am a left eye dominant, left handed rifle shooter yet I shoot pistol right handed. I have practiced shooting both strong and weakside with both. I assume I likely was a right handed rifle shooter at one time but was taught to suit my eye. It doesn't bother me to shoot ether way now as I shoot pretty ambidextrously now without thinking about it (no joke). I suggest you practice shooting with proper form to what your eye insists on in regard to rifle. If I can shoot both ways I don't see why you can't. However, if you can hit the target, who can complain?
An RDS for sure can be nice for someone just starting since the general technique is to keep both eyes open while aiming with them. I will say as much as I can talk on this stuff, it won't teach what getting your own experience will teach you. I do think an RDS is a great option ether way, though.
Nightvisionary
11-03-11, 03:07
I would go with Spikes or BCM way before Smith & Wesson. Smith and Wessons response to the materials and inspection list was "This information is considered proprietary information". How could a late comer to the AR manufacturing arena have proprietary information on someone elses 50+ year old design.
The obvious conclusion to draw for their failure to submit material and testing data is that such a submission might show that their manufactuing practices are below par when compared to the other companies that did provide the data to consumers. A big hint to me is the 1/9 twist barrel.
I would go with Spikes or BCM way before Smith & Wesson. Smith and Wessons response to the materials and inspection list was "This information is considered proprietary information". How could a late comer to the AR manufacturing arena have proprietary information on someone elses 50+ year old design.
The obvious conclusion to draw for their failure to submit material and testing data is that such a submission might show that their manufactuing practices are below par when compared to the other companies that did provide the data to consumers. A big hint to me is the 1/9 twist barrel.
I don't like the 1/9 barrel. I can't for the life of me figure out why they'd put that in there. But I wouldn't say it's an indication of a poorly made weapon. So far, all the reports I've heard from them being run at classes are good. Just because a huge company has a standing policy against divulging certain product information does not mean said product is crap.
I don't know anything about Spike's. They weren't on my radar when I first started shopping and settled on the couple of mfg's I'd use. But there sure is a lot of hate out there for them. Something about that spider has people riled up. It's no indication of course. That's the point I'm making. Let the rifle speak for itself. If Spike's guns are running great for hard users then great. Same for S&W. Haven't heard any huge problems for the current M&P line.
One more difference FWIW, every M&P carrier I've ever seen is semi.
I personally would go at the Colt if I had to choose between the two. This is mostly due to my experience with the Colt AR-15's being so positive while I have pretty much no experience with the M&P15.
Also, note the two guns are a little different.
The Colt has a four-position buttstock as the M&P has a 6-position one.
The colt features a 1/7 twist barrel which means it can fire the larger military ammo whereas the M&P 15 has a 1/9 which is more standard lighter ammo that is usually what is on the shelf anyway. Both will handle pretty much any normal rounds you shoot... but personally the 1/7 is something I like.
The Colt also weighs less than the M&P by 0.55 lbs and comes with a MOE foregrip.
One more difference FWIW, every M&P carrier I've ever seen is semi.
I've noticed that as well. I don't know what colt has going on with carriers nowadays but didnt they have neutered carriers at some point as well?
I owned a M&P and never had a problem with it. I ended up selling it to fund a noveske lo-pro tho.
To the op... As a former owner of an M&P and well versed user of military issued colts I'd say hold out and get the colt. At least in the future you won't feel the need to upgrade the whole rifle as opposed to just upgrading a specific part of the colt need be.
Hope that helps some.
brantley65
11-03-11, 06:54
G&R tactical (Grant) has the base 6920MOE for $1060. I have and will do business with Grant in again in the future. Cheaper Than Dirt is not going to answer your questions in a personal email or help if there is a problem. Grant is top notch- I highly encourage you do choose G&R Tactical.
Nightvisionary
11-03-11, 07:12
I don't like the 1/9 barrel. I can't for the life of me figure out why they'd put that in there. But I wouldn't say it's an indication of a poorly made weapon. So far, all the reports I've heard from them being run at classes are good. Just because a huge company has a standing policy against divulging certain product information does not mean said product is crap.
I don't know anything about Spike's. They weren't on my radar when I first started shopping and settled on the couple of mfg's I'd use. But there sure is a lot of hate out there for them. Something about that spider has people riled up. It's no indication of course. That's the point I'm making. Let the rifle speak for itself. If Spike's guns are running great for hard users then great. Same for S&W. Haven't heard any huge problems for the current M&P line.
Smith and Wesson has put out their share of turds over the years. Anybody remember the Sigma 9mm? But in general I agree that they generally produce a decent product. A standing policy against divulging certain information does not automatically mean it's crap but I can guarantee that if they were following all the manufacturing standards that we as informed buyers look for they would certainly trumpet that information as an additional selling point. The fact that they don't speaks volumes.
As to Spikes Tactical there does seem to be a few here and elsewhere that get all hysterical for reasons I don't understand. The carbine I purchased from them has many thousands of rounds through it without a hiccup and their manufacturing and test data has been available online for at least 2 years now.
Here's my take.
If you can afford the extra couple hundred, get the colt. If not, the M&P will serve you well.
I agree. But I'll add that I've never seen anyone post on the forums that they regret going with the better gun. NEVER.
Smith and Wesson has put out their share of turds over the years. Anybody remember the Sigma 9mm? But in general I agree that they generally produce a decent product. A standing policy against divulging certain information does not automatically mean it's crap but I can guarantee that if they were following all the manufacturing standards that we as informed buyers look for they would certainly trumpet that information as an additional selling point. The fact that they don't speaks volumes.
As to Spikes Tactical there does seem to be a few here and elsewhere that get all hysterical for reasons I don't understand. The carbine I purchased from them has many thousands of rounds through it without a hiccup and their manufacturing and test data has been available online for at least 2 years now.
I totally agree with every thing you say here. Add to all this, as brantly points out, that G&R has colts for just over $1k and I think the discussion is over. Grant's done right by me (and everyone else it seems), so even considering CTD is silly. Even if it WAS a tad cheaper.
So there ya have it MP9. Get the Colt. Rereading this thread, that was always the case anyway!
One more difference FWIW, every M&P carrier I've ever seen is semi.
Oh dang. In that case, Colt for sure.
Oh dang. In that case, Colt for sure.
A SEMI carrier isn't a deal breaker. A RAMPED, SEMI carrier is a deal breaker. There's two different things there.
I don't think anyone is making ramped carriers anymore... at least I hope not!
The ones I saw weren't...so definitely not a deal breaker. Just something I saw wasn't brought up yet - thought I'd throw it out there.
A SEMI carrier isn't a deal breaker. A RAMPED, SEMI carrier is a deal breaker. There's two different things there.
I don't think anyone is making ramped carriers anymore... at least I hope not!
St.Michael
11-03-11, 12:51
BCM ftw? I think it's cheaper too!
A SEMI carrier isn't a deal breaker. A RAMPED, SEMI carrier is a deal breaker. There's two different things there.
I don't think anyone is making ramped carriers anymore... at least I hope not!
Good data. Although, I think the weight of the auto carrier is more true to the design imho. It's not that they're not reliable or anything, more just wanting to stay "authentic"
I have both, both have been good to me. The S&W has a 1:9 vs the Colts 1:7. If ~$2-300 dollars is important then by all means S&W. More ammo, More mags.
I have both, both have been good to me. The S&W has a 1:9 vs the Colts 1:7. If ~$2-300 dollars is important then by all means S&W. More ammo, More mags.
Trouble is you can't hardly find a S&W MOE anymore, and as mentioned, Grant has 6920MPs for $1060. So we're only talking less than $100 from CTD's price on an out-of-stock S&W and G&R's price on the Colt, delivered this week. For that amount of money difference, the Colt is a no-brainer.
Trouble is you can't hardly find a S&W MOE anymore, and as mentioned, Grant has 6920MPs for $1060. So we're only talking less than $100 from CTD's price on an out-of-stock S&W and G&R's price on the Colt, delivered this week. For that amount of money difference, the Colt is a no-brainer.
Smith's website has them listed at $1249. Any dealer should be able to order them and get you that price.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764506_-1_757785_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
With Grant having the Colt at OVER $200 less, I find it hard to believe anyone is buying these. And I was one of the guys defending the M&P. Smith better re-think their pricing on some of thier M&Ps. Seems to me the prices have gone up a bit in the last year for these when most others have stayed the same if not gone down a bit.
Is it safe to assume the M&P isn't made at least 98%% to military standards?
Nightvisionary
11-04-11, 02:53
Is it safe to assume the M&P isn't made at least 98%% to military standards?
I would say that would be a safe bet.
G&R tactical (Grant) has the base 6920MOE for $1060. I have and will do business with Grant in again in the future. Cheaper Than Dirt is not going to answer your questions in a personal email or help if there is a problem. Grant is top notch- I highly encourage you do choose G&R Tactical.
I agree. But I'll add that I've never seen anyone post on the forums that they regret going with the better gun. NEVER.
Two good points right here.
I tend to shop at places I know will respond to my questions and who have a higher level of customer service. I do not mind paying a little more for that kind of customer service.
Like Mark said I can not think of one time where I have heard somebody say I wish bought a Bushmaster/DPMS/RRA instead of a Colt/BCM/DD. I would rather hold off on buying a lower end product and save my money until I had enough for the better item.
Nightvisionary
11-04-11, 22:48
I totally agree with every thing you say here. Add to all this, as brantly points out, that G&R has colts for just over $1k and I think the discussion is over. Grant's done right by me (and everyone else it seems), so even considering CTD is silly. Even if it WAS a tad cheaper.
So there ya have it MP9. Get the Colt. Rereading this thread, that was always the case anyway!
And if you need more reasons to avoid the Smith and Wesson AR you don't have to look very far:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=91930
And if you need more reasons to avoid the Smith and Wesson AR you don't have to look very far:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=91930
The thread you linked doesn't have any useful information (yet) regarding a reason to avoid M&Ps. I don't agree that they are to be avoided. Just turns out that you can get a Colt from Grant at lower than the Smith MSRP. In that case, you'd be silly not to get the Colt. If the Smith were a tad cheaper, and the 1/9 twist rate didn't bother you, then it's still a very capable rifle.
I'll avoid them because I'd prefer to put more money into a BCM (Can't get a complete Colt in Ca) or DD. And I really don't want a 1/9 twist. But that's it. They have a good rep for reliability at this point from all reports I've heard. Never said they were as good as a Colt or were to be avoided.
Nightvisionary
11-04-11, 23:44
The thread you linked doesn't have any useful information (yet) regarding a reason to avoid M&Ps. I don't agree that they are to be avoided. Just turns out that you can get a Colt from Grant at lower than the Smith MSRP. In that case, you'd be silly not to get the Colt. If the Smith were a tad cheaper, and the 1/9 twist rate didn't bother you, then it's still a very capable rifle.
I'll avoid them because I'd prefer to put more money into a BCM (Can't get a complete Colt in Ca) or DD. And I really don't want a 1/9 twist. But that's it. They have a good rep for reliability at this point from all reports I've heard. Never said they were as good as a Colt or were to be avoided.
Out of spec barrels seems like pretty useful information to me:confused:
Out of spec barrels seems like pretty useful information to me:confused:
See, I didn't get that from that post. What I got was conflicting/partial info on possible issues with either the weapon or that ammo. And the ammo was being replaced as well. Without knowing exactly what the measurments were, we can't say they were out of spec. Yet. They very well could have been. EVERY manufacturer could potentially put out a defective run of products. What they're doing about it says more about the company to me than a possible bad run.
Basically, small sample with not enough info.
Anyway, I'm not interested in an arguement over who's better between Colt and Smith. We all know that the Colt is the hands down winner, even when it was $200 more in the examples of the first post. Being cheaper through Grant, well, now it wins more.
I think the OP has his answer (a long time ago) and this thread is getting way off topic. Sorry for my part in that.
TacMedic556
11-05-11, 09:49
I own a Colt LE6920. Its great, I love it. Functions 100%. I shoot with my dad quite a bit and he built up a BCM 14.5 Midlength. Let's just say I am keeping my Colt, but am ordering a BFH BCM 14.5 Midlength ASAP.
His gun is beautiful. Fit and finish is superb, accuracy incredible, reliability as good as my colt. The biggest selling point for me is the fact that Bravo Company meets 100% of the criteria that Colt meets if you look into them. MPI, HP, 8620 BC, Carpentar 158 Bolt, M4 feedramps, proper staking on castle nut and gas key, F marked front sight, certified barrel steel, H buffers, the list goes on.
I know some pajama ninjas may jump all over me for stating this but here is a 2nd hand fact. I am involved in LE and have many co-workers who are Police. Two years ago S&W M&Ps ended up in the patrol cars. Our SRT team carries Colt 6933s however. There are numerous complaints from officers about varying function issues related to the M&Ps. I have not heard much good from these guys who drill and qualify with the M&Ps. Our Colts on the other hand that I personally use on the SRT (SWAT) are incredibly reliable. I have only had 2 or 3 malfunctions in 5 years and all were magazine feed lip related (those mags are in a landfill now).
Get a Colt, or BCM. That's my 2 cents. If you hate it I can mail you two pennies.
So many systems better than the S&W AR out there. BCM for one.
If those are your only choices go with Colt, no question.
Bedford Forrest
11-05-11, 11:19
I would definitely go with the Colt. In my experiences the S&W was no better than my old Bushy. With the price at G&R on the Colt it should be a no-brainer. You could spend $200 on the Smith and still not have a Colt.
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