View Full Version : New Hornady pistol duty ammo line
This stuff looks promising;
http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2011/11/04/hornady-critical-duty-ammunition/?utm_source=BlueSheepdog+Newsletter+Subscribers&utm_campaign=fe5d1582e7-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email
November 4th, 2011
Hornady Critical Duty AmmunitionHornady announced a new line of law enforcement ammunition called Critical Duty. This new ammo was designed to meet the specific requirements of police use. Critical Duty ammunition will be available in two 9mm loads and one .40 S&W load initially.
The Hornady Critical Duty ammunition uses a new bullet design that incorporates elements from previous company designs to perform well in the FBI ammunition testing protocol. The bullets use the Flex Tip technology, which is a polymer filled hollowpoint. The Flex Tip prevents the hollowpoint from being filled when passing through clothing or another barrier, yet it also helps expansion when striking the target.
Hornady also uses an InterLock band to hold the bullet jacket to the core, rather than using a chemical bonding process used by many other manufacturers. The benefit to the Critical Duty line of ammunition is that Hornady can use a heavier, antimony-rich core rather than a soft, pure (or close to pure) lead typically used with bonded bullets.
Critical Duty ammunition use low-flash powders and nickel cases.
The initial loads will be:
9mm: 135 grains @ 1010 fps, 305 ft-lbs
9mm +P: 135 grains @ 1110 fps, 369 ft-lbs
.40 S&W: 175 grains @ 1010 fps, 396 ft-lbs
Hornady Critical Duty AmmoAs mentioned previously, the Critical Duty ammo was designed to perform well in the FBI testing protocol. The protocol is an arbitrary set of standards developed by the FBI to measure ammunition performance. While I do not think the protocol is proportionally reflective of law enforcement shootings, it does provide a standard by which two ammunition designs can be compared.
Hornady states the FlexLock bullets in the Critical Duty line perform very well in the FBI protocols. This is good from a static testing standpoint, but actual performance in the street remains to be seen. There have been some rounds that performed very well on duty, but failed to meet the standards of the FBI protocol.
Likewise, I’m sure the reverse is true. I’m cautiously optimistic about the performance of this ammunition, but will not be swapping any of my ammo over to it yet.
[Note: I am a firm believer that shot placement trumps bullet design. Rapidly putting multiple rounds into vital areas is more likely to stop a fight than the choice of Federal vs. Speer vs. Winchester vs. Hornady. However, there are clearly some designs that perform better than others. So, given my druthers, I'd rather rapidly put multiple good hollowpoints into a target than the same number of cheap FMJs.]
While I do not think the protocol is proportionally reflective of law enforcement shootings, it does provide a standard by which two ammunition designs can be compared.
There have been some rounds that performed very well on duty, but failed to meet the standards of the FBI protocol.
My understanding is that the FBI made specs for worst case shooting angles and intermediate barriers. Not all shootings are worst case so you can often get by with lesser bullets.
FBI spec ammo is all about stacking the deck in your favor.
My understanding is that the FBI made specs for worst case shooting angles and intermediate barriers. Not all shootings are worst case so you can often get by with lesser bullets.
FBI spec ammo is all about stacking the deck in your favor.
Todd, note that the part you quoted wasn't from me, that was from the cut-and-paste I did from the article.
After many years of seeing bullets from OISs and comparing them to the FBI tests I have a lot of faith in the test protocol.
I have yet to locate a bullet that does well on the FBI protocol tests that has in aggregate performed poorly in OIS incidents...
Nephrology
11-04-11, 16:19
Thanks for the heads up, these look interesting.
That said given that 124gr +P gold dots are relatively inexpensive (~55 cents/round online) I don't know if I have a lot of reason to switch away to something more spendy and untested. the gold dot has been with the NYPD and countless other departments for many years, I kind a figure no sense changing horses mid race so to speak...
Will this qualify as a NJ-friendly load?
It should since the Hornady Critical Defense does. My info for that is directly from the NJSP Firearms unit, in writing.
I have yet to locate a bullet that does well on the FBI protocol tests that has in aggregate performed poorly in OIS incidents...
I concur.
Good,if it works as needed.It will be one more good load we have. I'll wait for some go/no go testing from Doc Roberts before I buy any,if he gets a chance to test them.
BufordTJustice
11-05-11, 04:04
Good,if it works as needed.It will be one more good load we have. I'll wait for some go/no go testing from Doc Roberts before I buy any,if he gets a chance to test them.
Agreed. More quality choices is always a good thing for us. If anything, the added competition can work to keep current prices low.
I'll reserve judgement until I see Doc's tests.
I can't recall seeing any problems with the ballistics testing that the major ammo manufacturers publish. I wouldn't say you need to wait on DocGKR to test a load if there is enough other testing published to make an informed choice.
Todd, note that the part you quoted wasn't from me, that was from the cut-and-paste I did from the article.
Just a general counterpoint for anyone reading that doesn't know what the FBI standards are for, didn't mean to direct it at you.
I can't recall seeing any problems with the ballistics testing that the major ammo manufacturers publish. I wouldn't say you need to wait on DocGKR to test a load if there is enough other testing published to make an informed choice.
Just a general counterpoint for anyone reading that doesn't know what the FBI standards are for, didn't mean to direct it at you. Well,that's a good point Todd,but here we go back to 'trust,but verify." I know that in the past ammo companies offered good reports on their ammo,but they were also indeed advertising their product and sometimes street results weren't quite spectacular.
I think they are more honest with their test reporting these days,but I don't believe DocGKR is in anybody's pocket and I trust his testing more than anyone else's. :)
I'm not talking about "knock down power" advertising, but the actual gel testing that you can find on some of the LE products.
http://www.hornadyle.com/_img/hornady_tap_report.pdf
http://le.atk.com/pdf/223RifleDataBook.pdf
I'm not talking about "knock down power" advertising, but the actual gel testing that you can find on some of the LE products.
http://www.hornadyle.com/_img/hornady_tap_report.pdf
http://le.atk.com/pdf/223RifleDataBook.pdf Understood Todd,that's also what I'm referring to. I consider Doc's more or less independant testing to be the more dependable,as well as any FBI gel test results,as there is no stake in the company or the sucess or failure of the round/rounds being tested.
Any new updates on the performance of this 135 gr load?
No mention of it here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887)
How does the 9mm 135 gr Critical Duty compare to a 124gr Gold Dot?
I am also interested to see how this round performs, although I have my doubts that it will sway me away from The Barnes 115gr XPB or Speer 124gr GDHP
vicious_cb
06-03-12, 17:16
According to this amateur ballistics test it looks like a good performer. But it doesnt to anything to make me move away from my gold dots though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZFZFmBKa0
I am also interested to see how this round performs, although I have my doubts that it will sway me away from The Barnes 115gt XPB or Speer 124gr GDHP
I saw what appeared to be some credible 3rd party testing done (calibrated 10% gel) on Critical Duty. For the life of me I can't find it now...my Google-fu is failing.
Anyway, it looked like Critical Duty corrected Critical Defense's penetration shortcomings, but the expansion was mediocre at best.
Agreeing with you, it's nothing that's going to take me away from Gold Dots or Ranger-Ts.
According to this amateur ballistics test it looks like a good performer. But it doesnt to anything to make me move away from my gold dots though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZFZFmBKa0
That was actually a really good youtube video. Don't see that often. Thanks for the link.
That was actually a really good youtube video. Don't see that often. Thanks for the link.
Here is the 40SW Critical Duty gel test from the same video producer.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjrenK4N_qY&feature=relmfu
Not too bad - but not enough to make me dump all of the Gold Dots that I've got stashed.
Handguns magazine, yea great source, has this to say about the new C duty.
Hornady’s new Critical Duty handgun ammunition is the only law-enforcement ammunition that currently exceeds the FBI’s minimum 12-inch standard for target penetration. That’s a bold statement.
To pass, bullets have to penetrate 12 inches into 10 percent ballistic gelatin through five different barriers: heavy winter clothing; dual-layer interior wallboard; 3/4-inch plywood; dual-layer auto-body steel; and laminated auto safety glass set at a 45-degree angle with a 15-degree offset. For the last four barriers, the gel is also fronted with a light clothing layer simulating normal indoor wear. Bullet upset is also measured as a means of wound channel comparison between loads having similar penetration.
Critical Duty sectioned, bullet, loaded ammo
The Critical Duty bullet features a polymer insert to prevent the hollow point from plugging, and the thin jacket is locked to the lead. The case is crimped into a cannelure to prevent bullet set-back.
No expanding-bullet handgun load has ever passed all the penetration tests, and the killer barriers have always been the glass and auto-body steel. But Hornady’s new Critical Duty exceeds the minimum 12-inch penetration standard for all barriers, and by significant amounts.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/2011/12/29/hornady-critical-duty/
"Hornady Critical Duty is excellent," says magazine sponsored by Hornady critical Duty.
Hornady came and did a Critical Duty demo for my LE agency after we had a bad lot of Gold Dot .40's.
Obviously they were shooting their stuff, but all of us in attendance were encouraged to "shoot what we brung" so we could get a small sample head to head comparison. Everything from 115 gr 9mm's to 230 gr .45's got shot out of attendee's guns, and the Hornady guys ran every 9/ 40/ 45 round in the line.
All of this was done in accordance to FBI Protocol as best I could tell (range, calibrated gel, denim, etc) and the Critical Duty out performed everything on the line (which was mostly Gold Dots and Federal JHP's) to the bullet if I remember correctly . I left impressed with it for sure.
I'll see if I can get the chart that our range master made during those test and post it up here for all to see.
ThirdWatcher
06-15-12, 19:01
Did they use Hornady Critical Duty .45 ACP ammo? They don't show it on their website yet.
Did they use Hornady Critical Duty .45 ACP ammo? They don't show it on their website yet.
I want to *think* they did but I can't remember for sure. I want to think that it wasn't 230's though.
It was pretty interesting to hear some of the tech that went into the Critical Duty stuff, apparently the polymer density and make up differs between nearly each cartridge/ velocity.
They also touted the Critical Duty as being superior to Critcal Duty in regards to barrier penetration. Based on the things that were said, I am very intereste in the Duty but not interested in the Critical Defense at all.
vicious_cb
06-15-12, 19:49
Hornady came and did a Critical Duty demo for my LE agency after we had a bad lot of Gold Dot .40's.
Obviously they were shooting their stuff, but all of us in attendance were encouraged to "shoot what we brung" so we could get a small sample head to head comparison. Everything from 115 gr 9mm's to 230 gr .45's got shot out of attendee's guns, and the Hornady guys ran every 9/ 40/ 45 round in the line.
All of this was done in accordance to FBI Protocol as best I could tell (range, calibrated gel, denim, etc) and the Critical Duty out performed everything on the line (which was mostly Gold Dots and Federal JHP's) to the bullet if I remember correctly . I left impressed with it for sure.
I'll see if I can get the chart that our range master made during those test and post it up here for all to see.
Out performed how? The testing Ive seen seems to indicate that it penetrates deeper but has lower expanded diameter compared to other duty loads from Speer, Winchester and Federal.
Out performed how? The testing Ive seen seems to indicate that it penetrates deeper but has lower expanded diameter compared to other duty loads from Speer, Winchester and Federal.
If I remember correctly, the Hornady stuff had better (and more consistent) expansion, and equal or better penetration. There were a couple of Gold Dots that clogged on the sheet metal test and turned into FMJ's. The Hornadys either expanded as designed or mushroomed every time. I guess that was the most impressive part to me.
I wouldn't say that the Hornady's "crushed" any of the competition and a couple of the test were neck and neck with a slight edge to the Hornady stuff. I definitely wouldn't complain if we switched over to them based on what I saw.
With that said,I actually left feeling better about my 124 +P Gold Dots than I did when I got there since I actually got to see it perform with my own eyes. It was one of the "neck and neck" test against the 135 +P Hornady load.
JB326
Hornady came and did a Critical Duty demo for my LE agency after we had a bad lot of Gold Dot .40's.
Obviously they were shooting their stuff, but all of us in attendance were encouraged to "shoot what we brung" so we could get a small sample head to head comparison. Everything from 115 gr 9mm's to 230 gr .45's got shot out of attendee's guns, and the Hornady guys ran every 9/ 40/ 45 round in the line.
All of this was done in accordance to FBI Protocol as best I could tell (range, calibrated gel, denim, etc) and the Critical Duty out performed everything on the line (which was mostly Gold Dots and Federal JHP's) to the bullet if I remember correctly . I left impressed with it for sure.
I'll see if I can get the chart that our range master made during those test and post it up here for all to see.
When you say Federal JHP's, were there any HST's?
American rifleman has Hornady "Ballistics Scientests" (episode 248) orignal air date 6/20/12. They say that no other round up till now has met FBI protocol.
They also say their C duty expands when it hits the barrier thus an fully expanded bullet hits the gel.
"They perform better than anybody elses products."
When discussing glass. "It will not under penetrate like alot of the bonded bullets will."
Here is the 40SW Critical Duty gel test from the same video producer.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjrenK4N_qY&feature=relmfu
Not too bad - but not enough to make me dump all of the Gold Dots that I've got stashed.
Then how about the 135gr CD through a chicken wearing a towel standing in front of three milk jugs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HVCnVDjelg
snakedoctor
07-14-12, 23:37
Then how about the 135gr CD through a chicken wearing a towel standing in front of three milk jugs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HVCnVDjelg
Awesome. I can't wait for 45acp CD rounds
vicious_cb
07-15-12, 00:14
Then how about the 135gr CD through a chicken wearing a towel standing in front of three milk jugs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HVCnVDjelg
What a waste of a perfectly good chicken. :rolleyes:
What a waste of a perfectly good chicken. :rolleyes:
It was a calibrated ballistic chicken.
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