View Full Version : Shooting Really Is Becoming A Rich Man's Activity...
It's sad really, it was something I could reasonably afford to do with a minimum wage job in high school.
In 1983 a Colt AR15 would cost you about $225.00, so if you made minimum wage (then $3.35 an hour) it would require you to work 67 hours to purchase one. And that $225.00 adjusted for inflation would be about $490.00 today.
In contrast, a Colt AR15 today will cost you about $900, so if you are earning minimum wage ($7.25 an hour) one would need to work about 124 hours to buy the same rifle. Damn near twice as much money, requiring twice as many hours.
So while the minimum wage generally matches inflation from 1983 to the present, the cost of an AR15 does not.
As for ammo. I can remember when 1,000 of military surplus 5.56 would run you about $80.00, so if you made minimum wage in 1983 that case of ammo would require you to work about 24 hours. Adjusted for inflation that same ammo would cost $175 today.I'd LOVE to find a place selling Lake City 55 gr. for $175.00
The best deal today on the same ammo is about $300 for 1,000 rounds and you'd have to work about 40 hours to pay for it.
And this has nothing to do with "ban prices" or unusual demand. During the Obama gun sale prices for AR15s and ammo were well above the current prices. It just requires the average person to work twice as many hours to do the same thing 30 years later.
And that's a shame.
ICANHITHIMMAN
11-05-11, 17:37
Agreed 100% Its crazy they say its due to the rishing cost of raw materieals but I say its all greed bottom line!
A lot of the increase in cost of ammo is related to raw materials like copper, that emerging economies like India and China are gobbling up.
It's not all greed.
Definitely puts a damper on training and machine gun shoots.
Belmont31R
11-05-11, 18:20
Most everything costs more today even adjusted for inflation.
ETA: Raw materials cost is part of it but so is conforming with the much larger regulatory burden, taxes, and general cost to hire employees.
A lot of the increase in cost of ammo is related to raw materials like copper, that emerging economies like India and China are gobbling up.
It's not all greed.
Definitely puts a damper on training and machine gun shoots.
So you are saying it is due to increased population densities competing for finite resources...OMG....SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE.
:D
If I didn't reload 9mm and .45 there's no way I could train with my handguns to the extent that I do. .223 I normally purchase in bulk. Hell even the Dillon machines I run cost more now than they did but not on the level you mention with the Colt.
I've got a friend that shot wolf for years while I cringed at him doing it. Several years and dollar signs later I'm buying it myself off and on.
All of this also surmounts to why I don't have the FN SCAR H I want.
So you are saying it is due to increased population densities competing for finite resources...OMG....SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE.
:D
The only food that is by the people, for the people, and made of people.
Agreed 100% Its crazy they say its due to the rishing cost of raw materieals but I say its all greed bottom line!
:rolleyes: Damn those business evil businesses trying to make a profit. Forget the increased energy costs, increased tax burden, increased regulations from agencies like the EPA , increased shipping, increased insurance and all of the other various cost increases.
Magic_Salad0892
11-05-11, 21:36
A tiny part of me hopes to God the Earth doesn't run out of raw materials to make bullets out of.
Ever.
At least in my lifetime.
A tiny part of me hopes to God the Earth doesn't run out of raw materials to make bullets out of.
Ever.
At least in my lifetime.
don't think you have to worry about that... It would be nice to see some cheap bullets made primarily of steel (one of the least expensive alloys) with maybe a thin copper jacket... I feel like no one is really trying to produce a truly economical bullet.
Compliance with government regulations costs a metric shit ton of money. Payroll related regulations, insurance costs, health insurance costs, etc, it's just ridiculous. Take regulations back to 1983 levels and you'd see AR's for half price again.
Per capita people are making about double what they did (inflation adjusted) in 1983 too. A Colt 6920 is a much better gun than the old sporters too. A .357 magnum revolver in 1935 would cost over $1,000 today. Good quality revolvers now cost half that. It goes both ways.
Sure a M1911 cost $250 in today's dollars back in 1917, but the average guy was making an inflation adjusted 5k a year. Compare that with a $1,000 repro 1911 today while making 50k a year. Five percent of your income, or two percent of your income. So yeah, goods cost more, but wages got a lot better than the cost of goods.
miss the early 80s :)
cheap ammo and also you can go shoot it where ever you pretty much wanted and nobody complained etc..
remember that berdan primed 308 in these lead lined boxes about $79
for 800 something rounds
montanadave
11-06-11, 05:15
Some of you guys are like a broken ****in' record.
If all ya got is a hammer, the world's nothin' but nails as far as the eye can see.
Some of you guys are like a broken ****in' record.
If all ya got is a hammer, the world's nothin' but nails as far as the eye can see.
Pot, kettle.....
I can remember when 1,000 of military surplus 5.56 would run you about $80.00
You can never use surplus as a true/real price for a product. It is being sold for what they can get for it, not what it cost to make.
You can never use surplus as a true/real price for a product. It is being sold for what they can get for it, not what it cost to make.
Fair point, but if we used production Lake City from 1983 the numbers wouldn't change dramatically.
don't think you have to worry about that... It would be nice to see some cheap bullets made primarily of steel (one of the least expensive alloys) with maybe a thin copper jacket... I feel like no one is really trying to produce a truly economical bullet.
Steel core is a COP KILLING "no no", and as we have handguns in 5.56 and 7.62 it is a "cop killer" handgun round. If we could simply dispense with that damn nonsense would could really open up the ammo market.
I'm guessing brass cases and copper jackets are the big issues however, I don't think those lead cores are costing us much.
Welcome to the declining purchasing power of the dollar vs. other currencies- Add to it increased foreign demand for the same materials, and you're looking at a different situation than "back in the day."
I'll give you one worse than guns & ammo--college tuition!
Back when I attended Hofstra University on Long Island in NY State(It was a while ago--I won't say when because I am not willing to accept that I am that old), tuition was about $2500-$3000 a semester and an Colt preban AR was about $800ish for the pre-M4 collapsable stock variant. I just checked their website and the tuition is now it is $16k a semester.
For $16k a semester it should include all the beer you can drink and hookers dressed up as coeds (having them dress up any other way would of course be extra).
And then after all of this the college calls me at my unlisted number which I did not provide them to solicit funds.
I was tempted to throw random mispellings and gramatical errors into this post to show just how good of an education they gave me. Maybe I should start an Occupy Hofstra movement.
Back to ammo prices: I can remember back in 2006 or so being able to buy xm193 for like $180-$200 for 1000 rounds and being able to buy 9mm Blazer for less than $4.00 a box.
I'll give you one worse than guns & ammo--college tuition!
Back when I attended Hofstra University on Long Island in NY State(It was a while ago--I won't say when because I am not willing to accept that I am that old), tuition was about $2500-$3000 a semester and an Colt preban AR was about $800ish for the pre-M4 collapsable stock variant. I just checked their website and the tuition is now it is $16k a semester.
For $16k a semester it should include all the beer you can drink and hookers dressed up as coeds (having them dress up any other way would of course be extra).
And then after all of this the college calls me at my unlisted number which I did not provide them to solicit funds.
I was tempted to throw random mispellings and gramatical errors into this post to show just how good of an education they gave me. Maybe I should start an Occupy Hofstra movement.
Back to ammo prices: I can remember back in 2006 or so being able to buy xm193 for like $180-$200 for 1000 rounds and being able to buy 9mm Blazer for less than $4.00 a box.
College has actually become something of a scam with student loan costs becoming larger than the difference in average salary for the same person with and without the degree in many cases.
It is no longer the guaranteed job and salary expectation it once was.
Completely agree. I will not push my kid(s) to go into college. My wife and I have over 50k in college debt and we have more than a few friends that make way more than us who never got a 4 year. I suppose the masters is the new bachelors when it comes to standing out amongst your fellow job seekers. (sry to digress)
A tiny part of me hopes to God the Earth doesn't run out of raw materials to make bullets out of.
Ever.
At least in my lifetime.
I'm hoping for handheld civilian accessible ray guns in my lifetime.
Thomas M-4
11-06-11, 19:01
College has actually become something of a scam with student loan costs becoming larger than the difference in average salary for the same person with and without the degree in many cases.
It is no longer the guaranteed job and salary expectation it once was.
Yea its all about the money.
BTW It is the next big bubble to bust unpaid student loans.
The whole situation is pretty sad.
I thought I had a couple of good points, but when I considered things they were all apples/oranges. Trucks and Motorcycles (closest hobby I can relate to) have increased at a similar rate, but look at how much better performance and technology you are getting at that price. Manufacturing techniques make some things a wash but it is hard to compare a YZ250 or a Toyota 4X4 from 1982 to a current model. An SP1 vs a SP6920 is not that drastic of a comparison.
Cheap ammo was not that long ago.
I bought a case of 1600 Norinco 223 in late 1993 for about $125.
We bought S&B 9mm for $80-$100 per 1000 in 1998-1990-2000 time frame IIRC. PMC 223 was not that expensive in the same time frame.
(Purposefully not listing surplus).
QuietShootr
11-06-11, 20:57
I was buying 1000 round cases of XM193 from Wholesale Hunter in 2004 for $165 delivered. I wish I'd had more money to spend on it...same thing with the South African 7.62 - I had a beautiful DS FAL that I used to shoot more than my 5.56s because it was cheaper.
Aargh.
I was buying 1000 round cases of XM193 from Wholesale Hunter in 2004 for $165 delivered. I wish I'd had more money to spend on it...same thing with the South African 7.62 - I had a beautiful DS FAL that I used to shoot more than my 5.56s because it was cheaper.
Aargh.
I remember grabbing Hirtenburger and FMP .308 for $100 for 1000 rounds a little over 10 years ago. I wish two things:
1. I wish I had bought 50,000 rounds for $5,000.
2. I wish I had not peed thousands of rounds through my G3s and HK21.
College has actually become something of a scam with student loan costs becoming larger than the difference in average salary for the same person with and without the degree in many cases.
It is no longer the guaranteed job and salary expectation it once was.
There's going to be a jobless generation coming soon. I can't tell you how many people I know that just graduated that can't find a job pertaining to their major. Most work at restaurants or odd jobs.
Masters is indeed the new bachelors.
QuietShootr
11-07-11, 11:43
There's going to be a jobless generation coming soon. I can't tell you how many people I know that just graduated that can't find a job pertaining to their major. Most work at restaurants or odd jobs.
Masters is indeed the new bachelors.
And that really pisses me off as someone with a master's. The way everything is getting dumbed down, in another 10 years everyone will have a Ph.D., but still won't be able to write a coherent sentence or properly use apostrophes. (If I see another "We have LMT AR's in stock" I'm going to yarf. You have LMT AR's what?)
And that really pisses me off as someone with a master's. The way everything is getting dumbed down, in another 10 years everyone will have a Ph.D., but still won't be able to write a coherent sentence or properly use apostrophes. (If I see another "We have LMT AR's in stock" I'm going to yarf. You have LMT AR's what?)
I wish I had time to quibble about such things, these days I'm impressed when college kids can manage full words and complete sentences. I have even seen teachers engage in "txt tlk."
A tiny part of me hopes to God the Earth doesn't run out of raw materials to make bullets out of.
Ever.
At least in my lifetime.
Fortunately, the synthesis of most metals are not dependent on lifeforms. Iron is one of the most abundant materials in the universe which seems to be the best projectile material for rail gun technology. If the earth runs out, there are plenty of options out there to fill technological needs. Besides, by the time we deplete our resources we will likely have developed weapons that draw energy from a reator based power source.
I shredded a bunch of old receipts this weekend. 5.56 per 1,000 was under $125 shipped, 7.62 was $22.50 per 200, 5.45 was $100 per 2000. I should have skipped the accessories and bought more ammo!
I bought a Colt Carbine in 1985 for $590. That was an average price at the time & the rifle version was only slightly cheaper. I checked online & it seems that $450-500 was the price that most were paying around 1983. John Wayne paid $190 in 1971 & nobody would screw over The Duke.
So, it looks to me like current prices aren't that far off after adjusting for inflation.
I just wish I hadn't gone off to college and lived on campus where I couldn't have my guns and thus gotten out of shooting for 4 1/2 years then an extra 3-4 after that b/c it had fallen out of habit. Those critical years I should have been grabbing up AK's, SKS's, FAL's, Makarovs, and truckloads of ammo instead of putting it in bar tabs and paintball--I REALLY hate myself for that.
I bought a Colt Carbine in 1985 for $590. That was an average price at the time & the rifle version was only slightly cheaper. I checked online & it seems that $450-500 was the price that most were paying around 1983. John Wayne paid $190 in 1971 & nobody would screw over The Duke.
So, it looks to me like current prices aren't that far off after adjusting for inflation.
Not sure where you were shopping. In 1983 I paid $350 for my NIB HK91 and HK93 and those were considered incredibly expensive because one could buy a AR15 for $225. Course those were Shotgun News prices.
Hey Steyr, didn't you post a thread a few months ago showing 1980's print ads for some of the favorite import guns and when inflation adjusted found that a pre-'89 almost anything actually cost the same or less now than it did in the '80s?
Hey Steyr, didn't you post a thread a few months ago showing 1980's print ads for some of the favorite import guns and when inflation adjusted found that a pre-'89 almost anything actually cost the same or less now than it did in the '80s?
That was only true in "some" cases like FN FALs and Steyr AKs which were incredibly expensive even then.
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