View Full Version : Glock Extractor Issues Gen 4 - Gen 3
Pages :
[
1]
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
TacMedic556
11-05-11, 21:59
Proud owner of Gen 3 17,19,26 and a 21sf.
I couldn't help but stumble upon an issue today while reading some threads online. Perhaps I have been under a rock, because I had not heard of this internet "glock extractor mania" until today.
The opinions and expertise found on the resource of M4carbine.net is where I believe the rumors can be boiled away and the facts brought out.
The issue is that supposedly many 2010-2011 glocks, including Gen 3's were issued or shipped with extractors that are different from Gen 3's from 2009 and earlier.
see photos on this thread, page (4) especially:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1546&page=4
My questions are:
What is the story really? Is this internet pajama ninja dilirium?
Did glock change the extractors?
What is the Gen 4 concave topped extractor pictured on the above thread? Page (4)
Could this all be poor pistol marksmanship and limp wristing with blaming the gun?:confused:
Anyway, I hope we can get some relevent answers, rational discussion and hard evidence (pictures are nice).
I own glocks, shoot glocks and also own and shoot 1911s. THIS IS NOT A GUN BASHING THREAD.
Please refrain from turning this into an ego fest:nono:. Facts only and 1st person experiences. Thank you and lets get to the bottom of this.
:help:
Added on 2/14/2012:
As the creator of this thread I ask at this point that any and all threads about YOUR gun include the following information:
- First 3 letters of serial # and or test fire date from factory.
- Generation of Glock (3 or 4)
- Number of rounds TOTAL fired through pistol
- Any changes made to pistol by you or armorer or Glock (parts etc.)
- Issues you are having.
- Ammo used during issues (manufacturer, weight etc.)
How do your glocks shoot? How have they been working? How many rounds have you put through your g17 and g19?
I ask these questions because if your glocks are performing well, it does not matter what might be happening elsewere.
I have had a couple of gen 3 g19s with the dip extractor that have performed absolutely great.
Problems with late model gen 3's have been rare. Things tend to get blown out of proportion on the internet and forums. People think the sky is falling and start looking to find issues.
If your glocks are running great,keep on.
TacMedic556
11-06-11, 08:18
I shoot winchester Olin Nato stamped 124 grain ball ammo. I buy in bulk.
For defensive carry I have shot and carry Speer gold dot. I have also burned through some 140+ grain stuff.
I have never had so much as a burp, FTE, FTF, nothing. I have done rapid fire, shooting on the move, drills, mag changes, shoot until slide lock back etc. No hickups. I believe mine are fine. My extractors don't have this supposed "curve" or "concave" depression on them either.
I hope we get more information from others. :D
Littlelebowski
11-06-11, 08:55
Speaking as one of the contributors to the thread you cite, I can assure you there are no "ninjas" posting in the thread. Did you think the pictures and firsthand experiences related there were fabricated?
Glock extractors didn't use to do these things. As I relate on my blog, I had to polish mine to make it drop in without binding slightly in my slide.
Proud owner of Gen 3 17,19,26 and a 21sf.
I couldn't help but stumble upon an issue today while reading some threads online. Perhaps I have been under a rock, because I had not heard of this internet "glock extractor mania" until today.
The opinions and expertise found on the resource of M4carbine.net is where I believe the rumors can be boiled away and the facts brought out.
The issue is that supposedly many 2010-2011 glocks, including Gen 3's were issued or shipped with extractors that are different from Gen 3's from 2009 and earlier.
see photos on this thread, page (4) especially:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1546&page=4
My questions are:
What is the story really? Is this internet pajama ninja dilirium?
Did glock change the extractors?
What is the Gen 4 concave topped extractor pictured on the above thread? Page (4)
Could this all be poor pistol marksmanship and limp wristing with blaming the gun?:confused:
Anyway, I hope we can get some relevent answers, rational discussion and hard evidence (pictures are nice).
I own glocks, shoot glocks and also own and shoot 1911s. THIS IS NOT A GUN BASHING THREAD.
Please refrain from turning this into an ego fest:nono:. Facts only and 1st person experiences. Thank you and lets get to the bottom of this.
:help:
Failure2Stop
11-06-11, 09:04
Could this all be poor pistol marksmanship and limp wristing with blaming the gun?:confused:
I can't say that none of them are user induced, but I can say that there are some that are definately NOT user induced.
Nephrology
11-06-11, 09:17
If your guns work - then good.
I have 2 guns with the new "dip' extractor and, like you, I have not had a single problem with them.
It's just another thing to keep your eyes peeled for.
Littlelebowski
11-06-11, 09:26
Limp wristing is a bullshit excuse perpetuated by 1911 owners to mask inaedquacies in their weapons. Most of the people in the thread TacMedic linked to are graduates of the Vickers Advanced Tactical Pistol class. They were NOT limp wristing.
TacMedic556
11-06-11, 10:56
Thanks LB. I did not mean to insinuate you were a pajama ninja. It just seems that sometimes the internet seems to blow things out of proportion. Appreciate the photos on the thread and your research. Where does one find GLOCK Inc. extractors on the market? If I wanted to order the older non-dip LCI ones, where would I look?
Thanks LB. I did not mean to insinuate you were a pajama ninja. It just seems that sometimes the internet seems to blow things out of proportion. Appreciate the photos on the thread and your research. Where does one find GLOCK Inc. extractors on the market? If I wanted to order the older non-dip LCI ones, where would I look?
Do your Gen 3 Glocks work?
Littlelebowski
11-06-11, 11:21
Thanks LB. I did not mean to insinuate you were a pajama ninja. It just seems that sometimes the internet seems to blow things out of proportion. Appreciate the photos on the thread and your research. Where does one find GLOCK Inc. extractors on the market? If I wanted to order the older non-dip LCI ones, where would I look?
LoneWolf has them in. I'm waiting on the LoneWolf made LCI ones myself, currently on back order.
TacMedic556
11-06-11, 11:56
Do your Gen 3 Glocks work?
Yes they do. So far. I have read some get the problems at round counts of upwards of 2500+ rounds. So far mine have done great.
My Glock 19 (gen 3, but mid-2011 test fire date) has fed 100% reliably so far. Zero issues. However, my face gets bombarded with brass casings to the tune of around 1 out of ever 5 ejections. They are ejecting with PLENTY of force (my forehead can attest to that), but occasionally doing so straight back.
I'm awaiting the LWD extractor, but it's on backorder still.
my glock 34 gen3 is brand new. i took it out yesterday for the first time using the Cal legal 10rd mags it came with, I had several fail to ejects (type 3).
for comparison, i used some older 17rd mags and the pistol functioned without fail.
the 10rd mags are single stack. would that have anything to do with it?
My Gen3 Glocks have been 100% perfect as have my Hk USP and P30. Would not trade the Gen3 for any other personal defense gun which is why I have not "upgraded" to the Gen4's. Maybe if Glock came out with a 120% reliable generation gun I would consider an upgrade - but until then I will stick with my Gen3's for sure!
My Gen3 Glocks have been 100% perfect as have my Hk USP and P30. Would not trade the Gen3 for any other personal defense gun which is why I have not "upgraded" to the Gen4's. Maybe if Glock came out with a 120% reliable generation gun I would consider an upgrade - but until then I will stick with my Gen3's for sure!
Exactly why I picked up the gen 3 instead of gen 4. The "upgrades" are minor at best, downgrades at worst.
PieceKeeper
11-08-11, 23:20
Here are two videos I just happened to shoot showing erratic ejection and both videos include a stovepipe. Each happened within 50 rounds of each other.
Late 2010 Gen3 19. Gun's run flawless for about 4K rounds. The descriptions in the videos have some more information. To summarize, this is my daughter and the stovepipes only happened with her shooting. I just got pinged in the forehead a bunch.
"Limp wristing"? You decide.
http://youtu.be/RtVcaR5v4QY
http://youtu.be/O8WIqW-GRms
Here are two videos I just happened to shoot showing erratic ejection and both videos include a stovepipe. Each happened within 50 rounds of each other.
Late 2010 Gen3 19. Gun's run flawless for about 4K rounds. The descriptions in the videos have some more information. To summarize, this is my daughter and the stovepipes only happened with her shooting. I just got pinged in the forehead a bunch.
"Limp wristing"? You decide.
http://youtu.be/RtVcaR5v4QY
http://youtu.be/O8WIqW-GRms
I really need to shoot my 2010 gen 3 more. Is the extractor the only change in the late model gen 3 glocks? If that is the problem I wish Glock would have kept the same type of extractor and charged more for the pistol. I am sure people would have paid extra.
Doc Safari
11-09-11, 09:59
This subject has been covered on a couple of threads on this forum.
All I can say for the short version is that my Gen 3 Glock with the "concave top" extractor would launch the empties right in my face. Since switching to the Lone Wolf extractor, extraction and ejection are way to the right and away from me.
Nuff said as far as which extractor is better in my book.
Can anyone tell me what the dip in the extractor is for? I mean obviously Glock did i for a reason. Did it reduce a critical stress point, was it meant to aid in extraction and just came up short? Any ideas?
I have late model G19 & G17 RTF2's and they are both ejecting brass in a normal fashion, away from my body. They are bone stock and both have the dip extractor. 1,179 rds thru the 19 and 266 rds thru the 17. Mostly WWB 115 gr fmj's, with some Win T 124gr +p and Fed HST 147gr +p. No malfunctions of any kind, even while double tapping thru a happy stick and one handed shooting, weak & strong side.
Proud owner of Gen 3 17,19,26 and a 21sf.
I couldn't help but stumble upon an issue today while reading some threads online. Perhaps I have been under a rock, because I had not heard of this internet "glock extractor mania" until today.
The opinions and expertise found on the resource of M4carbine.net is where I believe the rumors can be boiled away and the facts brought out.
The issue is that supposedly many 2010-2011 glocks, including Gen 3's were issued or shipped with extractors that are different from Gen 3's from 2009 and earlier.
see photos on this thread, page (4) especially:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1546&page=4
My questions are:
What is the story really? Is this internet pajama ninja dilirium?
Did glock change the extractors?
What is the Gen 4 concave topped extractor pictured on the above thread? Page (4)
Could this all be poor pistol marksmanship and limp wristing with blaming the gun?:confused:
Anyway, I hope we can get some relevent answers, rational discussion and hard evidence (pictures are nice).
I own glocks, shoot glocks and also own and shoot 1911s. THIS IS NOT A GUN BASHING THREAD.
Please refrain from turning this into an ego fest:nono:. Facts only and 1st person experiences. Thank you and lets get to the bottom of this.
:help:
Where have you been? :D
I'm also a major Glock fan -- but not to be confused with mindless "fanboi". Since 1990, I have only owned 9mm Glocks -- either the Glock 19 and later the Glock 26. Sometimes one at a time, sometimes both.
Before 1990, I owned other brands of guns, but since then I've seen no need. I have also shot many other brands of guns over the years, and rented and shot many other calibers of Glocks (specifically .40 and .45 ACP) but the 9mm Glocks are what I seem to prefer.
Right now I own a Gen3 Glock 19 and a Gen4 Glock 26. Late last year, I sold my Gen3 Glock 26 to the buy Gen4 Glock 26 -- and intended to do the same for the Gen3 Glock 19, replacing it with Gen4 Glock 19 as I like the new grip. But those plans are on hold due to the jamming, extraction problems with the new Gen4 Glock 26. :(
Yes, that's right. My new Gen4 Glock 26 which I want to love is a jamming mess. Over the 300 rounds I put through it so far, I've have at least 4 stovepipes, jams, FTEs where the gun could not fuction until I cleared that jam. That's not counting the two jams a friend of mine had, because I'm talking direct evidence I experienced. I've been shooting Glocks for two decades and I don't limp wrist.
In my 21 years of owning/shooting Glocks, I've never had a gun like my Gen4 glock 26 which has failed like this.
But let's look at the Gen4s in general. Glock is now on the fifth (or sixth, I've lost count) redesign of their spring on the 9mm model Glock is now issuing the FIFTH different spring since launching their Gen4. So, SOMETHING is wrong with the 9mm Gen4 Glocks.
WHY is Glock on their FIFTH dual recoil spring design? :confused: Because of jams, stovepipes, FTE. In the beginning, Glock tried to blame "weak U.S. market ammo" which was bull. Any reputable gun should be able to fire factory SAAMI spec ammo. Period. Winchester white box is loaded to SAMMI specs. If Glock can't fire that, it's Glock's fault.
With these admitted problems, besides Glock has also blamed their extractors.... Glock told customer they had a batch of "out of spec" extractors. Is it that or a bad design? or does the new method of manufacture (MIM -- metal injection molding) allow shoddy, out of spec extractors? :confused: Again, no press release on the bad batch of extractors, instead just talking to customers directly, who then post the gist of their conversations on forum boards.
Here's why the "bad batch" of extractors are relevant. Since the Gen4 Baby Glocks did not change springs, the one thing that did change between my Gen3 Glock 26 and the new Gen4 Glock 26 was the extractors. They changed right before the Gen4s were launched, and the new extractor design is also being used on Gen3s still being sold. So, if my Gen4 Glock 26s is then it's not the springs, it's the extractors.
Whether it's the new design or whether it's the new method of manufacture (MIM), SOMETHING has changed that Glock has enough failures and complaints they are trying to fix the problems.
All the people who are focusing on the extractors are saying is, maybe it's not the springs, maybe it's the OTHER element that got changed around the same time the springs (in most 9mm models) were changed. Since the Baby Glock springs were not changed, when my new Gen4 Glock 26 jammed, the extractor issue looks very valid.
Someone on another forum posted this, which has direct observational evidence:
After speaking with Glock customer service yesterday, he recommended I take some fine steel wool to my Gen4 extractor to smooth out the finish a bit and see if that would improve the fit.
I did as he suggested, but during the process, received my Lone Wolf 9mm extractor. While the steel wool DID improve the fit of the Gen4 extractor, I noticed some small, yet OBVIOUS differences between the Lone Wolf version and the Glock version. In fact, the Lone Wolf extractor looked and fit EXACTLY like the extractor in my older Gen3 G19. The Gen4 Glock extractor has the obvious dip that others have mentioned as well as some extra ridges that don't exist on the older Gen3 extractor and the Lone Wolf version.
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/GlockandLoneWolfExtractors.jpg
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/CastingMarks.jpg
The Lone Wolf extractor performed brilliantly. NO malfunctions at all and NO brass to the face, even with the 115gr Remington UMC.
============
Again I am a major Glock fan, but I'm not a mindless fanboi who cannot admit that Glock screwed something up here and are trying to fix it. At least 5 spring designs shows Glock knows something is amiss, so fanbois should also.
Also, "weak" ammo is a not the reason for any of these failures in spite of what Glock or fanbois say. SAAMI spec factory ammo should fire reliably in ANY production pistol. If it doesn't, it's a failure of the pistol design -- not a failure of the SAAMI spec ammo.
I like the new grip design, which is why I sold my Gen3 Glock 26 and replaced it with Gen4 Glock 26. I had planned to also sell my Gen3 Glock 19 and replace with Gen4 Glock 19, but now I am going to wait a year on that until Glock sorts everything out.
I ordered a Lone Wolf extractor but have not yet installed it. Going to do so this next weekend....
Psalms144.1
11-09-11, 16:00
My 3rd Gen G19 is "waiting shipping" back to me from it's third trip to Smyrna to try to make it stop drawing blood from my forehead with ejected brass. As directed, I wrote a very detailed letter, describing the problem, previous "fixes" applied by the factory, and requesting that the service tech contact me when they diagnosed the problem.
As stated, I would never have known they touched my pistol if I hadn't checked today. The only thing the unhelpful service person on the phone told me was that they replaced the extractor.
When I mentioned that this has been tried twice in the past, with no lasting results, I was not-so-politely gaffed off and hung up on.
I got the impression that the service guys are being beat down.
I'll post the results of this repair once my pistol is back in my hands.
Regards,
Kevin
TacMedic556
11-09-11, 19:25
compared my G19 to my buddys G19. His is from 2003, mine is from 2010. The extractor difference is definite. His is flat, machined and smooth. There is no LCI.
Glock should just re-issue the earlier extractors and allow all owners to get one per gun.
CrazyFingers
11-09-11, 19:32
This issue has me concerned as well. I have been wanting a modern striker-fired pistol for some time, something smaller and lighter than my 92fs and 1911. I did not like how the grip felt on an M&P 9c, but a Gen3 G19 felt great. The size and balance were just right. Now that I'm ready to make the purchase, I have serious concerns about the quality and reliability of Glock 9mm pistols.
Short of finding an older Gen3 with the straight extractor, is there any definitive way to buy a reliable G19? I'd rather not have to buy a third party extractor to get a pistol to run the way it should out of the box, and it doesn't sound like sending it back to the factory solves the issues.
Those 9mm extractors from newer guns do look like crap as far as outgoing QC goes. For shots and giggles I took my Gen4 21 apart and took a look at the extractor. Pics below. Not as clean as the LWD unit as there are still parting lines visible, but the deformation that is displayed in the pics above aren't there at all. I am closing on 1K rounds through the gun now without any issues. Wonder if it's only the 9mm that is being affected by either new tooling or worn out tooling. iPhone pics below of my extractor for comparison.
http://img.tapatalk.com/4b1b894a-28f8-a6cd.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/4b1b894a-2906-a3a5.jpg
Right before the Gen4s were introduced, Glock not only changed the extractor design they also changed the method of manufacturing -- going from "machined" parts to MIM (metal injection molding). All new Gen3s (Glock still sells them) and Gen4s come with the new design, questionable extractors. Glock admitted they had a batch of "out of spec" extractors earlier this year, but that's all they will admit. Whereas, Lone Wolf makes their Glock extractors based on the OLD tried and true extractor design and machined parts -- the way Glock used to.
BUT, there's a new development...
After Glock issued 5 or 6 new spring designs the past few months and even issed a press release about the final one, they have QUIETLY introduced a new EJECTOR design. All new 9mms leaving the factory have this new EJECTOR (not extractor).
See, the reason they were blaming "weak" ammo before is because strong force will help overcome the flawed new extractor design -- to forcibly push the casings out. Sure, they'll whack you in the face and burn your cheek, but they're out. ;) Ammo in the lower ranges -- while still SAMMI spec and fired fine in prior Gen3s -- suddenly failed to eject, jammed, stove piped and otherwise shown a spotlight that something was wrong.
But rather than admit they cheaped out by going MIM and not checking quality or testing the new design enough on the new extractors, now Glock has re-designed their ejectors to work with their new extractors.
People who have the newest springs and newest ejectors say the Gen4 problems now seem to be solved. But unless you are an armorer, Glock will not send you a new ejector for a gun you already own. They might send it to an armorer to install on your gun, I don't know. Or if you ship it to them they will install it.
The old part number is "336". The new part is numbered "30274"
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/Glock%20Fixes/Ejector%20Fix/G19G2FrontG19G4Back.jpg
Old Gen 4 Ejector In Back
The new ejector seems to be shorter, thicker and more stubby (less pointed) and slightly different angle.
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/SGTDuffman/Glock%20Fixes/Ejector%20Fix/EjectorTopSide.jpg
So, make sure you have the newest double recoil spring, make sure you have the newest ejector, and doesn't hurt to have a Lone Wolf extractor. :D
More pics here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1125984&postcount=457
In those pics, the new ejector is in the middle.
If you want to know more, here's a google search for Glock, Gen4, ejector, "30274": http://goo.gl/DelE7
Doc Safari
11-10-11, 09:33
We know that late model Gen 3's come with Gen 4 extractors but as far as you know the new ejectors are only in Gen 4's, correct?
EDITED TO ADD: Glock has really screwed the pooch on the Gen 4 9mm's.
My Gen 3 (test fired 9/21/11) has that 336 ejector. I bought it less than a month ago and had to send it in to glock today.
TacMedic556
11-11-11, 11:25
What is the ejector part number on the EARLY pre-336 9mm Ejectors for the 17, 19, 26?
Did the newer Gen 3's all get ejector 336? What should the ejector number be?
brushy bill
11-12-11, 13:07
Does anyone know if the new Gen 3s will ship with this ejector also or is it only the Gen 4s?
TacMedic556
11-12-11, 14:01
So far from what I have read and heard all 9mm's still have ejector 336. It sounds like the problem with the ejectors stems from the Gen 4 frame, slide and recoil spring. The Gen 3's seem to be "cured" from any ills as soon as the extractor is replaced. The ejectors on the Gen 3's are the same as they have always been, if I am not mistaken. The NEWEST Gen 3's I have seen lately, have all had 336 ejectors.
Correct on the 336 ejectors.No reason to change it on the Gen 3's. If Glock does it,it will be another "screw the pooch" move on their part.
Psalms144.1
11-13-11, 18:18
So far from what I have read and heard all 9mm's still have ejector 336. It sounds like the problem with the ejectors stems from the Gen 4 frame, slide and recoil spring. The Gen 3's seem to be "cured" from any ills as soon as the extractor is replaced.
Let's hope this is the case. The problem is, in my case at least, my 3rd Gen G19 has had the extractor replaced twice by the factory and once by me - without solving the issues of ejecting into my face.
On its way back from the factory with the FOURTH extractor in place - hopefully this will clear it up finally...
Regards,
Kevin
My friend's Gen3 G19 and my own Gen3 G17 have the 336 ejector. (Both purchased this year within the last 5 months.) I am currently waiting for LWD to ship their extractor to me. Hopefully this remedies all the casings to the dome.
I have noticed that with weaker ammo sch as PMC, the casings simply just drop out of the ejection port. I assume this has to do with weak ammo.
Anyone got a line on a source for the "older new style" non-LCI 15 degree extractors? My Glock 17 pings me in the face with brass pretty regularly. It is a Gen 3 gun, manufactured in 2006, with an LCI extractor. My other Glocks (a Gen 2.5 G26 and a Gen 3 G19) do not do this. The G26 in particular has been dead solid (it has a non-LCI extractor). Still, I was inclined to think that the problem must have been with me rather than the Glock 17 in all its Perfection.
Finally, after reading here and elsewhere, and after receiving a nice crescent shaped burn next to my right eye, I resolved to do 2 things. 1: to find some better fitting eye protection, and 2: to try and isolate the cause of my extraction issues. The other day, I took both the G17 and G26 to the range and fired a couple dozen rounds through each. True to form, the G26 extracted consistently to my 4 o'clock while the G17 sent case after case bouncing off my hat.
I swapped extractors between the two guns, and lo and behold, the G17 started extracting perfectly with the G26's non-LCI extractor. The G26 with the G17's LCI extractor didn't ping me in the face, but a few cases did bounce off my right arm.
So it seems that a new extractor is in order. I am inclined to try and hunt down another non-LCI extractor if I can find one, though the Lone Wolf seems to be a viable option. Anyone know of a source that has either in stock?
Anyone got a line on a source for the "older new style" non-LCI 15 degree extractors? My Glock 17 pings me in the face with brass pretty regularly. It is a Gen 3 gun, manufactured in 2006, with an LCI extractor. My other Glocks (a Gen 2.5 G26 and a Gen 3 G19) do not do this. The G26 in particular has been dead solid (it has a non-LCI extractor). Still, I was inclined to think that the problem must have been with me rather than the Glock 17 in all its Perfection.
Finally, after reading here and elsewhere, and after receiving a nice crescent shaped burn next to my right eye, I resolved to do 2 things. 1: to find some better fitting eye protection, and 2: to try and isolate the cause of my extraction issues. The other day, I took both the G17 and G26 to the range and fired a couple dozen rounds through each. True to form, the G26 extracted consistently to my 4 o'clock while the G17 sent case after case bouncing off my hat.
I swapped extractors between the two guns, and lo and behold, the G17 started extracting perfectly with the G26's non-LCI extractor. The G26 with the G17's LCI extractor didn't ping me in the face, but a few cases did bounce off my right arm.
So it seems that a new extractor is in order. I am inclined to try and hunt down another non-LCI extractor if I can find one, though the Lone Wolf seems to be a viable option. Anyone know of a source that has either in stock?
Either one of these work?
http://www.glockmeister.com/G17-Extractor-90-Degree_-0-Degree/productinfo/G98/
http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip/7182_Glock+Extractor/?return=%3ftpl%3Dsearch%26search_val%3Dextractor
So is this extractor problem just related to the 9mm's or does it also apply to the other calibers?
TacMedic556
11-22-11, 01:29
just remember when you switch from LCI to non LCI, I believe you need to switch Spring Loaded Bearings. The LCI 9mm takes the longer black one.
http://www.glockmeister.com/images/glockspringloadedbearinglcim.JPG
DAVID RICHARDS
11-22-11, 01:32
O.K. here's my late model GEN3 G19 story. I bought a GEN3 G19 to avoid the problems I was seeing my friends at the range have with the GEN4 G19's they had purchased. My gun ran well for a few hundred rounds and started throwing brass to the left, forward, at my head, at my safety glasses, over my left and right shoulders. dribble out onto my hands and so on. Here are the things I tried to do to rsolve it myself.
1. 3 different ectractors. Two Glock OEM's and a Lone Wolff extractor. Tried polishing the original because it would not hardly come out of the slide. No deal. The two that replaced the originals just made things worse.
2. Shot every kind of ammo through it from WWB to Winchester Ranger 127gr. +P+. And I mean a bit of everything. Some came out more forcefully than others but still was erratic. Just with more gusto.
3. 3 different recoil assemblies of different spring weights.
4. HRED extractor plunger set up.
5. Since I've been shooting for 42 years it is not limpwristing. But just in case had others shoot it with the same results.
6. Sent it back to Glock. They replaced every part in the frame and put in an old style extractor. It worked until this weekend where somewhere around 600-650 rounds it started throwing brass back at my head and safety glasses. To the left, forward, again you've got the idea.
7. It's on it's way back to Glock again. If they don't fix or replace it with something that works it's gone. Have a buddy who's GEN4 G19 is back for the second time. With all the "updates" including the new ejector it still isn't working. Another friends GEN4 G19 went in once and got the "upgrades" and it's perking right along. Some work out of the box, some don't. Some GEN3's are fixed with new extractors, some aren't. Some work for awhile before problems show up. Others right out of the box. Their doesn't seem to be one fix that works for every gun GEN3 or GEN4. One thing is for certain. Glock would not be going through 4-5 RSA redesigns, extractor changes, ejector changes, shipping costs and so on for problems that didn't exist. And the new model ejector does fit in the GEN3's trigger housing and has solved ejection problems for some GEN3's. The GEN4 is supposd to have a different trigger housing but the new ejector works in GEN3's. Why none for GEN3's and the ejectors can only be changed by Glock at Smyrna. Not even Glock trained and certified gunsmiths? Strange???????
Interesting thread, OP. Luckily my Gen3 with Gen4 extractor stopped tripped over its dick around round 250 or so. Hotter ammo helped with that.
0-100...6 stovepipes with 115gr and lots of casings to the forehead
101-500...mostly 124gr RUAG yielded 0 issues
500-1,050...back to 115gr with no issues
On the flipside, the wife's Gen4 26 has been issue-free.
Limp wristing is a bullshit excuse perpetuated by 1911 owners to mask inaedquacies in their weapons. Most of the people in the thread TacMedic linked to are graduates of the Vickers Advanced Tactical Pistol class. They were NOT limp wristing.
:D spot on
CrazyFingers
11-22-11, 08:52
Hotter ammo helped with that.
I've read that several people with ejection problems found relief by switching to hotter 124/147gr ammunition. Is this the actual solution, or does it just mask an underlying flaw in the firearm's design? Shouldn't a new 9mm Glock Gen3/4 be able to reliably cycle and eject any SAAMI spec 115gr ammunition?
Those of us that have switched back to 115gr and experienced no issues would tell you that 'breaking in' with hotter ammo doesn't mask, but rather fixes, an issue. So yes, it has been a solution for me.
I've read that several people with ejection problems found relief by switching to hotter 124/147gr ammunition. Is this the actual solution, or does it just mask an underlying flaw in the firearm's design? Shouldn't a new 9mm Glock Gen3/4 be able to reliably cycle and eject any SAAMI spec 115gr ammunition?
CrazyFingers
11-22-11, 09:03
Thanks munch520, I'll keep that in mind.
Crow Hunter
11-22-11, 20:26
The MIM versus "Non MIM" is wrong.
Here are some pictures of a Glock Extractor that has never been in a gun, it is part of my spare parts kit that I purchased in early 2007. Produced before the now dreaded "Dip Extractors".
Notice the 2 in the picture. (You will have to blow it up) At my armorers course, the extractor in my gun was a 13 and my brother's was an 18. Both were older extractors as well.
An embossed number like that has to either come from MIM or casting. The cost to machine that in would be ridiculous, if it were even possible. That number signifies a cavity number, most likely.
My bet is that they are MIM and set up in a multi cavity die so that you get 25 or 30 pieces per shot.
They did change tooling when they went to the new dipped design. There is probably a very small issue with one or more of the cavities that causes a tolerance stack up issue in some guns. (The parts are all in spec but some times, certain specs add up the wrong way.) Root Sum Squares tolerancing will give you a good idea, but your process might not reflect the statisical bias in that calculation. That is most likely why they are keen on getting the guns back to do the changes at Smyrna. Most likely they want to measure all the dimensions on those particular guns and see if a pattern emerges. Once they have the pattern, they will know what they need to fix. Something like slides with X cavity extractor, with Y angle Ejector, Z spring rate RSA throws brass at 1 o'clock.
Unfortunately it probably isn't as simple as "go back to the old design". That tool was probably worn out and they had to change to new tooling, or maybe they upgraded to a new system to put out more parts and the tooling won't fit any more. That is just the extractors, who knows what all has changed on other components.
Manufacturing is alot more complicated than some people understand, it isn't just A+B=C (Fortunately for me, keeps me in a job.:D)
Some of you guys would walk every where you went if you knew what really went into making your cars.....:haha:
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/anewbill/IMG_0831.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/anewbill/IMG_0834.jpg
Extractor still hasn't shipped yet lol.
Either one of these work?
http://www.glockmeister.com/G17-Extractor-90-Degree_-0-Degree/productinfo/G98/
http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip/7182_Glock+Extractor/?return=%3ftpl%3Dsearch%26search_val%3Dextractor
Thanks for the links, but I think those are the older 90-degree ones. Anyway, I was able to track down a 15-degree non-LCI extractor (and SLB) at a local shop this morning. Getting ready to head out of town for the holiday, but will definitely be trying out the new setup when we come back.
Thanks for the links, but I think those are the older 90-degree ones. Anyway, I was able to track down a 15-degree non-LCI extractor (and SLB) at a local shop this morning. Getting ready to head out of town for the holiday, but will definitely be trying out the new setup when we come back.
Ahh gotcha, sorry. Let me know how it all works out! Happy Thanksgiving!
My springs are replaced with the ones Glock just mailed me, hopefully I won't be having any of these extractor issues mentioned... I guess I'll find out this Sunday at the range. I'll be shooting a new G19 & G17, both gen 4's, using 9mm Blazer ammo so I should be looking out for stovepipes and ejections to my forehead? Super. Anything else?
Can someone explain to me what and where is this "dip" in the extractor is. is it on side side that protrudes when there is a round in the chamber?
Carniemedic
12-01-11, 06:34
Can someone explain to me what and where is this "dip" in the extractor is. is it on side side that protrudes when there is a round in the chamber?
There's a picture of the "dip" in the Glock extractor near the top of page two in this thread.
crazymoose
12-08-11, 16:47
Have had issues with my new 3rd gen 17L. Fired case is dated 9/26/11. Serial number prefix is RXD. Only taken it to the range once as of yet. In the first 100 rounds of WWB 115 grain ammo, I had approximately 10 failures to feed. Unfortunately, the range prohibits photography, so I was not able to photographically document the failures. About half resulted in the round hung up in the chamber at about a 45 degree angle. In the other half, the round appeared to be feeding at the correct elevation, but the bullet nose was butted against left side of the barrel wall, where the nose had missed the ramp/chamber entirely.
My suspicion is that friction between the extractor and the slide were causing the extractor to improperly guide the round.
Extractor is the "dip" type. Numbered "3" on the flat side of the cylindrical part, rather than behind the claw, as in Crow Hunter's picture. After only 100 rounds, there is significant finish wear with bright shiny spots along what appear to be molding/casting seams. I'm hoping that these areas will continue to wear and the problem will take care of itself. However, I might give the molding seams on both sides a few passes with an ultra-fine ceramic stone to speed this process along. Either way, I will report the results.
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii449/crazymoose/extractor1.jpg
http://i551.photobucket.com/albums/ii449/crazymoose/extractor2.jpg
Before anyone jumps on me for limp wristing, I've been shooting Glocks for ten years and tens of thousands of rounds. This is the first such issue I've encountered.
crazymoose
12-13-11, 14:28
Update: I polished the extractor with an ultra-fine ceramic stone. Nothing radical, just smoothed out the casting seems a bit and polished things. Fired two hundred more rounds of 115 grain Federal. No improvement. Still getting about 10 failures to feed per 100 rounds.
I called Glock tech support. Their solution: use a 124 grain round. They also denied that there had been any extractor revisions in the 3rd gen guns. Thinking about switching to the PPQ as my go-to pistol and just saying **** Glock. If I wanted an ammo-sensitive pistol, I would not have purchased a Glock in the first place.
I've had similar issues as others in this thread.
I tried polishing the extractor, just received the LWD extractor and tried that, and tried an older extractor from a circa 2002 19 I own. All no joy.
I've read that a few people are having luck with the newer Gen 4 ejector(30274) in the newer Gen 3's. I had my local Glock armorer order the new Gen 4 ejector and a new extractor. When they arrive and I'm able to test it out, I'll report back.
Mike,
Have you tried your newer 3rd gen slide on your 2002 frame?
I've had similar issues as others in this thread.
I tried polishing the extractor, just received the LWD extractor and tried that, and tried an older extractor from a circa 2002 19 I own. All no joy.
I've read that a few people are having luck with the newer Gen 4 ejector(30274) in the newer Gen 3's. I had my local Glock armorer order the new Gen 4 ejector and a new extractor. When they arrive and I'm able to test it out, I'll report back.
Yes, I did try that as well. I apologize for not mentioning that in the previous post.
I don't remember if it was this site or another, but I read a theory regarding why this is happening with newer Glocks...
First a couple of pictures. My older 19 and the newer 19 with issues. I took 2 pics switching which side each slide was on to get different angles.
Newer Glock on left.
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss46/mikejg05/DSC_1813.jpg
Newer Glock on right.
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss46/mikejg05/DSC_1815.jpg
You can clearly see the gap between the extractor claw and the slide is bigger on the newer Glock. The cut-out on the slide for the extractor must be different in the newer Glocks.
This bigger gap allows the shell casing to drop prior to the casing hitting the ejector. So the ejector is hitting the casing at a higher point on the casing and causing erratic ejection or failures.
The stubbier new ejector is probably less forgiving of where the casing strikes it. It's not pointed, but a flatter surface.
I don't have any high-speed video to prove this, but to me it seems logical.
Thoughts???
Those appears to be different, but it's not clear if it is the slide or the extractors. My new 3rd gen with a 11/2011 test fire date looks identical to my older 3rd gens and not pronounced like yours. However, it extracts well.
The reason I asked about swapping frames/slides was something I noticed on my friend's new G19. His ejector (old style, #336 ) appears to be about 0.5 mm lower more than mine measured from the top of the slide. I do not know if this is something to look into, but he was having extraction issues too. The saga continues...
Good point.
I swapped extractors with slides just now and the same gap is present in the newer slide no matter which extractor is put in the new slide; old, new, or Lone Wolf.
Well, that is not good.
To be clear, are you saying that the gap is so large that the extractor cannot hold the case in the slide assembly? For example:
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn176/Dr_Wolfenstein/Handguns/DSCN1960_sm.jpg
It will hold a round, but just barely and not with nearly as much force as my old Gen 3.
The issue is also exacerbated by the barrel unlocking. The vibration running through the frame can and will shake the casing loose from the extractor.
Mike, you're right on the money with your pictures and your assumptions.
Now, whether this is a slide milling issue or an extractor related issue, i do not know.
Long Tom Coffin
12-15-11, 11:52
I've read that several people with ejection problems found relief by switching to hotter 124/147gr ammunition. Is this the actual solution, or does it just mask an underlying flaw in the firearm's design? Shouldn't a new 9mm Glock Gen3/4 be able to reliably cycle and eject any SAAMI spec 115gr ammunition?
Of the 2 Gen 4 19's that I have seen fired the most, my own personal firearm and my buddy Josh's, both have exhibited at least mild erratic ejection with typical range loads (Win NATO, AE, PMC Bronze, etc). While I have not had extraction failures or stovepiping issues with mine, Josh has had more than a few. As a matter of fact, when he recieved his 0-4-3 spring, during the first 400 rounds of range ammo he experience a whopping *7* vertical stovepipes.
However, that is all with range ammunition. With hotter duty/carry ammo (in these 2 cases, GD 124+p and DPX 115 gr+P) absolutely no issues of any sort occured. Ejection was consistent and reliable.
Now, whether this is a slide milling issue or an extractor related issue, i do not know.
Good point.
I will say that brand new, this 19 would have 1-2 stovepipes (horizontal and vertical, but mostly horizontal) for every 2 magazines through it with almost every round having crazy ejection.
Once I polished the extractor the stoppages were no more, but the brass to the face, dribbling brass, and brass to the LEFT continued. Same thing with the older extractor.
TacMedic556
12-15-11, 21:53
I contacted a VERY friendly and helpful woman at Glock Inc. in Smyrna named Ingrid Stewart. She is my go to lady at Glock. ALWAY friendly, and the MOST helpful. She sent me a new extractor for a Late 2010 (December) Glock Gen 3 19 after discussing the issue with technicians or gunsmiths whatever you want to call them.
Glock seems to believe that some extractors made the "new way" were flawed and the "newer" ones fix the issue with Gen 3's. I really do not think Gen 3's need or warrant the new ejector. Getting a new OEM extractor fixed the issue.
All my Gen 3's have ejector 336, as has been in all the 9mms for years. Why some guys are getting ejectors replaced on Gen 3's baffles me.
6920, BCM, 17, 19, 26, 21 SF
All my Gen 3's have ejector 336, as has been in all the 9mms for years. Why some guys are getting ejectors replaced on Gen 3's baffles me.
I think it's baffling a lot of folks, but there are positive reports coming in from those using new ejectors who have replaced extractors many times (including those from LWD) with no prior benefit.
As I mentioned earlier I have a newer 3rd gen that extracts very well. My friend has a newer 3rd gen that does not. We swapped extractors at the range and his G19 was still exhibiting poor extraction and brass to the face. To rule out grip variation, I shot his and he shot mine. Same story. With his extractor in my gun, I was having zero issues. Swapped them back and nothing changed. We were using the same ammo and even interchanged mags, BTW. I should have swapped slide assemblies with him, but by then we had gome through 500 rounds and were finished for the day. Perhaps this weekend.
Perhaps some of the newer 3rd gen (and 4th gen) slides are milled with sufficient variance to cause the erratic ejection problems regardless of the extractor. That may be what Mikejg is getting at. See Randy's post (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92447) regarding the 4th gen ejection ports. Or, perhaps the frames are manufactured with sufficent variance to affect the distance or geometry between the ejector and the port. I don't know.:confused:
I hope Randy or someone can shed light on this as I will not buy any more new Glocks until this is resolved.
I really do not think Gen 3's need or warrant the new ejector. Getting a new OEM extractor fixed the issue.
How are you coming to the conclusion that you don't think Gen 3's need the new ejector? Because a new extractor fixed your 19? As has been stated before we have tried a new extractor to no avail. Also, the fact that Glock is now sending 30274 ejectors to Gen 3 owners means something.
Some are having luck with the new extractors some (most???) are not.
I will also not buy anymore Glocks until this is resolved.
I just read through Randy's thread. It is very interesting. His observations seem to be in-line with what is happening, at least with my new Gen 3.
I knew APEX was working on possible fixes, but must have missed that thread before.
Hi all,
I have been waiting for reports to come in from owners who have replaced the 336 ejector with the 30274. It seems that in many cases the replacement ejector works. Anything that will help kick the case out at a steeper exit angle will help. There must however be a distinction between help and cure.
We all hope for a simple drop in fix-replace ejector or replace extractor, add HRED, etc. Results seem to be mixed at best. And I think that this has been the most frustrating part for many.
We are trying our best to come up with a "simple" cure, however my experience with the glock has always been that the ejection port wall is too tall. I know from prior and current experience that when I lower the port wall,uniformity of ejection greatly improved.
I think that the modifications and parts I have done on Magsz gen 4 19 will also work with the gen 3s, and even earlier generations.
Magsz has a video of the prototype parted, lowered port gun being shot on youtube. The shooter is holding the gun one handed, with only two fingers supporting the frame. He then shoots the gun with two hands. If you look at the ejection pattern it becomes clear how important an unobstructed flightpath is to reliable function.
Her's a link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdAcZOEbA40&blend=1&lr=1&ob=video-mustangbase
-Randy
Thanks, Randy! I'm anxiously looking forward to the final results/products.
rotorblade
12-16-11, 21:03
How are you coming to the conclusion that you don't think Gen 3's need the new ejector? Because a new extractor fixed your 19? As has been stated before we have tried a new extractor to no avail. Also, the fact that Glock is now sending 30274 ejectors to Gen 3 owners means something.
Some are having luck with the new extractors some (most???) are not.
I will also not buy anymore Glocks until this is resolved.
Same here I am done with Glock 9mm's until the 9mm guns are fixed.
Interesting last 21 4th gen I saw did not have MIM extractors nor did the owner have a single issue with it. I shot 3 mags through it and he let me take down the slide. Sure was dirty and the striker looked like a drill pipe from an oil well. Cleaned it up for him and cleaned and dried the striker channel for him. He didn't know that you shouldn't put oil in there.
I used to have a 21 during the ban. To me the 4th gen 21's are where it's at now. But alas 45 is too too too expensive for me right now.
TacMedic556
12-16-11, 22:01
How are you coming to the conclusion that you don't think Gen 3's need the new ejector? Because a new extractor fixed your 19? As has been stated before we have tried a new extractor to no avail. Also, the fact that Glock is now sending 30274 ejectors to Gen 3 owners means something.
Some are having luck with the new extractors some (most???) are not.
I will also not buy anymore Glocks until this is resolved.
it not only fixed mine but others according to others on glocktalk and some other threads on this issue. People at Glock were probably shipping the new ejector to irate Gen 3 owners demanding a "fix" that the Gen 4 owners got. Maybe it does work, due to the new angle, however I do not see the logic behind it if the frame and slide are the same as other Gen 3's.
The only way the new ejector is curing an ailment is if there is something "sick" with the pistol. Did Glock change the specs? Is the slide of different weight, dimensions, materials? What changed? How are these Gen 3 Glocks different that causes this ejection issue? That is the answer I think we need, and Glock should just address it to end all speculation, conjecture, hypothesis and internet theory, conjured up through rumor mills on thread boards.
We're all friends here.
6920, BCM Middy, 17, 19, 26, 21SF, Colt Series 80, 870, to name a few...
TheGhostRider
12-17-11, 19:13
At what point in time (time frame) did the problems with the FTEs and radical ejection really start to show up?
I have a Gen 3 17: GED - G17 -April 2004 - 3rd Gen. - OD Green Frame, LCI/Extractor
Test casings collected 4-07-04
It has a 336 ejector and a #3 marked extractor
Thus far I haven't had any function problems with it.
Round count.... oh lord... unknown. lol
I have a Gen 3 19: MYH - G19 -Mar 2009 - 3rd Gen. -BK Frame, screw-in front pl/sight, LCI/Extractor
Test casings collected 3-13-09
It has a 336 ejector and a #3 marked extractor
No problems yet... but not a high round count like the 17.
Both pistols are stock with the exception of the sights.
Trijicons on the 17
Mepros on the 19
There is no unusual marks or abrasions on the extractor and no brass marks on the port.
Just throwing in some more info with production dates.
Magic_Salad0892
12-17-11, 20:41
At what point in time (time frame) did the problems with the FTEs and radical ejection really start to show up?
I have a Gen 3 17: GED - G17 -April 2004 - 3rd Gen. - OD Green Frame, LCI/Extractor
Test casings collected 4-07-04
It has a 336 ejector and a #3 marked extractor
Thus far I haven't had any function problems with it.
Round count.... oh lord... unknown. lol
I have a Gen 3 19: MYH - G19 -Mar 2009 - 3rd Gen. -BK Frame, screw-in front pl/sight, LCI/Extractor
Test casings collected 3-13-09
It has a 336 ejector and a #3 marked extractor
No problems yet... but not a high round count like the 17.
Both pistols are stock with the exception of the sights.
Trijicons on the 17
Mepros on the 19
There is no unusual marks or abrasions on the extractor and no brass marks on the port.
Just throwing in some more info with production dates.
Late 2010, early 2011.
They got more common around Q2 2011, but seemed to die down a bit after.
My Gen4 guns have exhibited no problems.
Others have.
Magic_Salad0892
12-17-11, 20:44
Hi all,
I have been waiting for reports to come in from owners who have replaced the 336 ejector with the 30274. It seems that in many cases the replacement ejector works. Anything that will help kick the case out at a steeper exit angle will help. There must however be a distinction between help and cure.
We all hope for a simple drop in fix-replace ejector or replace extractor, add HRED, etc. Results seem to be mixed at best. And I think that this has been the most frustrating part for many.
We are trying our best to come up with a "simple" cure, however my experience with the glock has always been that the ejection port wall is too tall. I know from prior and current experience that when I lower the port wall,uniformity of ejection greatly improved.
I think that the modifications and parts I have done on Magsz gen 4 19 will also work with the gen 3s, and even earlier generations.
Magsz has a video of the prototype parted, lowered port gun being shot on youtube. The shooter is holding the gun one handed, with only two fingers supporting the frame. He then shoots the gun with two hands. If you look at the ejection pattern it becomes clear how important an unobstructed flightpath is to reliable function.
Her's a link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdAcZOEbA40&blend=1&lr=1&ob=video-mustangbase
-Randy
How do you lower the port wall, and does this damage or effect the Tenifer finish?
To those who aren't aware, the newer dip extractor goes as far back as late 2009.
I have a G19 made in Feb 2009 that has the older straight extractor, and a RTF G19 made in Nov 2009 that has the dipped extractor. The extractor was really tight in the slide and wouldn't drop free when taking it out (almost had to ply it out). This super tight fit was affecting ejection (this is also using older 336 ejector). After looking at the wear points, I used some flitz to polish (VERY carefully) the bottom and top of the extractor (where it is sandwiched in the slide). When removing the extractor, it falls out easily (like with my older G19), and ejection is consistent and strong like the older Glocks. After doing this, I had about 4 boxes (Speer 147 gr, Winchester whitebox, PRVI 9mm, Federal) with no ejection issues. Can't speak for Gen 4s, but this was a quick fix for a gen 3. Keep in mind this is with a sample size of one G19.
I did this because LWD extractors were out of stock and I had a spare extractor in case it didn't work out.
Did you get a new slide from Glock yet?
Did you get a new slide from Glock yet?
Referring to my other Gen 3 G19....
No. I'm in their system...but after calling them every week for 3 weeks, I stopped calling. However, they said that they'll give me a replacement and quoted me on the original 4-6 week time frame. I don't know if they're just really busy this time of year, or they're just slow.
nimslerpon
12-17-11, 22:27
I've put a few hundred rounds through my Gen 4 without issues so far.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkHEdNx0Mk4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Vid of how the brass dribbles out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JeUhu1C1Q0
this is a video that was discussed in a different thread (not as the main topic) but i was wondering if this issue is also addressed in the apex mods.
Apricotshot
12-20-11, 21:54
Went to the range tonight and my Gen 3 Glock 26 started ejecting brass in my face or on top of my head on the last round in the magazine only. Serial number prefix is LFD.
Psalms144.1
12-21-11, 06:37
As I've previously reported, my 3rd Gen G19 couldn't be made reliable, and I got a replacement Gen4 pistol that came in last week. This pistol is fully "upgraded" with the newest extractor, newest ejector, and newest RSA. Made it to the range on Sat, and again yesterday, and, in about 400 rounds of 124gr NATO ball fired, had two stovepipes, three double feeds, and at least 50 rounds of brass flung in odd directions - about 15 into my face, lots just over my head, several to the left side of the pistol, and even 5-6 that ejected to the 12 o'clock position - straight forward.
I had two other experienced Glock shooters shoot the pistol, and used a total of 6 different magazines during the shooting - and everyone experienced the same type of results.
Back to Glock, I guess. Is it time to switch to .40 S&W in Glocks, or do I need to find a different platform for my 9mm needs? This is the third bad G19 I've had in a row in the last 18 months...
Regards,
Kevin
platoonDaddy
12-21-11, 06:46
replacement Gen4 pistol that came in last week. This pistol is fully "upgraded" with the newest extractor, newest ejector, and newest RSA.
Kevin
1st off I am really sorry to hear about your experience with the replacement gen 4. When you state upgraded with the newest 'extractor' any number stamped on it, how about a picture or two of the 'extractor'.
Assume the newest ejector is #30274 and RSA 0-2-4?
mkmckinley
12-21-11, 07:19
I was really hoping Glock would get their act together by now. I'm glad I have the M&P as a reasonable alternative. Isn't Apex working on something?
I was really hoping Glock would get their act together by now. I'm glad I have the M&P as a reasonable alternative. Isn't Apex working on something?
Randy is working on a fix, but who know when it'll become available.
Psalms144.1
12-21-11, 10:11
Platoon Daddy - no number on the extractor, and SWMBO has the camera right now at some Xmas function for the kiddies. The extractor is visibly much different from the "dip" extractor that came with my problematic 3rd Gen G19 - almost parallel between the top & bottom edges (like the pre-2010 extractors), and obviously higher quality - looks like tooled steel to me instead of the rough construction of the MIM "dip" extractors. RSA is 0-3-4, ejector is 30274...
Regards,
Kevin
train of abuses
12-21-11, 10:22
I was able to test out a couple Gen 3 Glock 19 RTF2s made in the early part of 2010 yesterday that I recently picked up. I haven't put that many rounds through them, but a total of 200 through both and no issues so far. I was honestly expecting there to be malfunctions and other problems from the things I have read here, or at least ejection that was not strong. Glad to see both of mine are good to go so far. I know I have read a number of posts where the problems started with the first mag or two, so hopefully mine will remain this way.
The only bad thing I guess is regular gen 3 glocks seem way too slick now that I am starting to get used to the rough texture frame!
platoonDaddy
12-21-11, 10:45
Platoon Daddy - no number on the extractor, and SWMBO has the camera right now at some Xmas function for the kiddies. The extractor is visibly much different from the "dip" extractor that came with my problematic 3rd Gen G19 - almost parallel between the top & bottom edges (like the pre-2010 extractors), and obviously higher quality - looks like tooled steel to me instead of the rough construction of the MIM "dip" extractors. RSA is 0-3-4, ejector is 30274...
Regards,
Kevin
Thanks for the info and very interesting comment about the extractor.
Mine is back for the 2nd time, will be interesting to see what is added this time. Didn't know there was a RSA 0-3-4.
Ohh before I forget, conclave or non-conclave slide?
train of abuses
12-21-11, 11:01
And I have the dreaded dip in the extractor, unlike an old Glock 30 of mine. Should I expect the extractors to wear out faster? I guess the only way to know is to pull them out and check every once in a while. What a pain! I may just have to pick up a couple Apex extractors when they come out to be on the safe side.
Word on the street is that changing the 9mm extractors to the .40 version fixed the issue (so far)
Who's word and on what street? I haven't seen any solid info on this.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1369607&page=8
"Just sharing my experience with the g19 gen 4. I purchased mine (new) back in March 2011 with a test fire date of February or January. I can't remember the exact dates, and I am too lazy to go look it up but its in the general time-frame. Took mine out to the range, and I immediately got what everyone else was complaining about... brass to the left, face, etc. As you can imagine, I was not happy. I have a G23 gen 4 which was purchased in 2010 with no issues. I continued a few more range sessions shooting about 200 to 300 rounds per session with the same results. I was primarily shooting 115 WWB, Federal, and Remington UMC. The pistol did come with the 0-4 RSA and was sporting the original 336 ejector of course. Despite the casings going everywhere, I never had any type of failure/jam.
After I had enough pain, I did some research and purchased a 9mm Lone Wolf version (so I thought) extractor directly from LWD's website. Once I received the LWD extractor, I replaced the original glock extractor and went to the range. After the 1st range session, everything was good. No more face pelting. Now I am up around 3,000 rounds using the same type of ammo, using the same LWD extractor, and no failures/jams. The gun is definitely consistent with brass ejections. I am still using the original Glock ejector. A few months ago I did get the new 0-4-3 RSA from Glock and the results are still good with no issues.
Now... having said all of the that, I need to mention one more important fact. Obviously I bought my LWD extractor earlier in the year. It is stamped with the number "4" on it. I have heard that Lone Wolf had the LWD 9mm and .40 extractors mixed up. My understanding is the LWD extractor stamped with "4" is for the .40 caliber. If that's the case, then that's what LWD sent me, and I re-verified it last night when I took the slide apart. That leads me to believe that yes, there was some type of mix up, and when I ordered the 9mm LWD extractor, they were sending the .40 extractors. I guess it worked out since I am not having sporadic ejection issues. I never purchased the 9mm LWD extractor stamped "3" that Lone Wolf now has on their website. Moral of the story is... you may want to try the .40 extractor ("4" Stamp) in your 9mm. It's sad that you even need to do this of course when it should work with original Glock parts.
In addition, I am hoping that Glock will start sending out the new 9mm and .40 ejectors for purchase soon so I can get my hands on them to test. I called Glock 2 weeks ago, and they will not send me the new ejectors unless I am an armorer. They would pay for me to send the pistols back though in order to get the ejectors installed. I thought about it, but decided not to send them in. I'll wait it out I guess.
BTW, some other things I didn't mention. During my range sessions and testing, I tried multiple Glock extractors with different numerical stamps, new plunger/SLB, Glockmeister RSAs, etc. All failed to assist in my sporadic ejection issues. Only solution for me was the LWD "4" extractor.
Just thought I would share.
Thanks all. "
It's hard for me to visit that forum now with all of the Glock fanboys claiming there's no issue and "who cares where brass ejects, just wear a hat"
The number of people over there who cannot set aside personal feelings and objectively look at the facts is astounding.
I may go to the range today to test my old Gen3 26 extractor in the new 19. It's the only extractor I have that I haven't tested in the new pistol.
One interesting thing I noticed last range session:
-Shot new Gen3 19 with polished stock extractor again and still had erratic ejection
-With the LWD extractor the extraction was less erratic, but still not consistent.
-I put LWD extractor in older Gen3 19 and experienced 4 stovepipes and brass all over the place through 2 magazines. This again leads me to believe something is different with the newer slides.
I'm still waiting on the new ejector and a new extractor to arrive, but will test as soon as they arrive.
I have read this whole thread and others relating to this issue. After my reading there seems to be no discernible pattern with these problems unless I missed something. Is there a date range or serial number prefix for either the gen 3 or the gen 4's that are having the most problems?
Psalms144.1
12-24-11, 07:58
Brian - someone has posted (I forget where) from a "reliable source" that there's a possibility that Glock has one of their frame molds for the Gen4 G19s somehow out of whack - so you either get a Gen4 that works, or nothing you do to it will make it right.
I've owned three G19s produced since spring of 2010, two Gen4s and one 3rd Gen. None of them worked reliably, so my sample is 3 out of 3 bad recent production G19s.
Others have gone 4 out of 4 or more good G19s - so, it really must be a luck of the draw kind of thing...
Regards,
Kevin
I posted my below response in another thread, but I think it is relevant here as well.
I have a new gen 4 19 donated by a leo that I have fired the very first rounds through. It is a lemon that shows all of the problems stated in this thread. The particular gun has a 336 ejector, 0-3-4 RSA, and dipped extractor.
This is the second gun to test our extractor. Magsz is beta testing the first gun using the modifications I listed below. He should have an evaluation available after the holidays.
,
-Randy
Glock Gen4 G19 update,
I have officially sent my pistol back 4 times. Just talked on the phone with management a few days ago, and they told me they are not going to ship me my gun back or even a new one because none of the G19's they have are working well with Winchester White Box 115gr. 9mm rounds from Walmart.
Glock now has, and is testing most 9mm guns with the Winchester White box, and they realize there is an issue, and they will not be giving me a gun until they figure out why this ammo is not working with the G19. They said they are determined to fix the problem.
Update to come once I hear something.
Hi Freerunner,
That is unfortunate news indeed.
After having worked on the Gen 4 guns, the primary flaw lies in the redesign of the extractor and it's implementation into the 9mm pistols.
If you look from the front of the slide (barrel removed) to the breech, you will notice that the claw (surface that bears against the case) of the extractor is angled rather than running vertical or parallel to the breechface sidewall. As a result, the case is much more likely to disengage from the extractor prematurely. In essence, the case is being released before the ejector even contacts the back of the spent case. Hi speed video that you can find on youtube demonstrates this phenomenon. The result is most often weak ejection, horizontal stovepipes and even reversed horizontal stovepipes.
I can only speculate as to why Glock incorporated this into the extractor design, but my best guess is that it was originally done to reduce the cycling problems that LE were experiencing with the G22s and 23s when lights were mounted to the frame. The .40 has a bit more extractor groove depth and the design change in this caliber might have been more advantageous in solving the failures to feed that were commonly observed.
When you couple the hook angle with tolerance between slide and frame, frame flex, barrel rebound (recoil induced) and the dimensions of the Winchester brass, I suspect that the factory is seeing a failure rate in excess of 50%. Your conversation with the factory rep. supports this hypothesis.
The case MUST remain in contact with the extractor claw until acted upon by the ejector. This is why there are more postings about positive results when people install HREDs, Lone Wolf extractors, etc.
Once you have positive extraction of the case, the contact with the ejector must create a high enough arc to clear the horizontal wall of the slide's ejection port. This fact is why some people have reported no significant improvement in ejection pattern when installing the HRED, aftermarket extractor, 30274 ejector and/or combination of the aforementioned parts. It will work for some, but not for others.
My recommendations to Glock would be this:
-Better extractor to positively extract and maintain contact with the
brass until it is contacted by the ejector.
-Use the 30274 ejector as it does improve the chances of the spent
case clearing the ejection port wall.
-Lower the ejection port wall and mill in a secondary chamfer into the
slide's ejection port sidewall.
If the manufacturer were to implement these changes, their failure rate as far as ejection/extraction in the 9mm Gen 3s and Gen 4s would drop to less than 1% even with WWB ammunition.
-Randy
I posted my below response in another thread, but I think it is relevant here as well.
I have a new gen 4 19 donated by a leo that I have fired the very first rounds through. It is a lemon that shows all of the problems stated in this thread. The particular gun has a 336 ejector, 0-3-4 RSA, and dipped extractor.
This is the second gun to test our extractor. Magsz is beta testing the first gun using the modifications I listed below. He should have an evaluation available after the holidays.
,
-Randy
Hi Freerunner,
That is unfortunate news indeed.
After having worked on the Gen 4 guns, the primary flaw lies in the redesign of the extractor and it's implementation into the 9mm pistols.
If you look from the front of the slide (barrel removed) to the breech, you will notice that the claw (surface that bears against the case) of the extractor is angled rather than running vertical or parallel to the breechface sidewall. As a result, the case is much more likely to disengage from the extractor prematurely. In essence, the case is being released before the ejector even contacts the back of the spent case. Hi speed video that you can find on youtube demonstrates this phenomenon. The result is most often weak ejection, horizontal stovepipes and even reversed horizontal stovepipes.
I can only speculate as to why Glock incorporated this into the extractor design, but my best guess is that it was originally done to reduce the cycling problems that LE were experiencing with the G22s and 23s when lights were mounted to the frame. The .40 has a bit more extractor groove depth and the design change in this caliber might have been more advantageous in solving the failures to feed that were commonly observed.
When you couple the hook angle with tolerance between slide and frame, frame flex, barrel rebound (recoil induced) and the dimensions of the Winchester brass, I suspect that the factory is seeing a failure rate in excess of 50%. Your conversation with the factory rep. supports this hypothesis.
The case MUST remain in contact with the extractor claw until acted upon by the ejector. This is why there are more postings about positive results when people install HREDs, Lone Wolf extractors, etc.
Once you have positive extraction of the case, the contact with the ejector must create a high enough arc to clear the horizontal wall of the slide's ejection port. This fact is why some people have reported no significant improvement in ejection pattern when installing the HRED, aftermarket extractor, 30274 ejector and/or combination of the aforementioned parts. It will work for some, but not for others.
My recommendations to Glock would be this:
-Better extractor to positively extract and maintain contact with the
brass until it is contacted by the ejector.
-Use the 30274 ejector as it does improve the chances of the spent
case clearing the ejection port wall.
-Lower the ejection port wall and mill in a secondary chamfer into the
slide's ejection port sidewall.
If the manufacturer were to implement these changes, their failure rate as far as ejection/extraction in the 9mm Gen 3s and Gen 4s would drop to less than 1% even with WWB ammunition.
-Randy
Randy,
Thanks for your input and analysis of this issue. The question that remains for me is why is this problem also being experienced on the more recent Gen 3's? Do you know if the failure rate on the recent production Gen 3's is similar to the amount of issues on the Gen 4?
I have not looked closely at the newer Gen 3s as my primary focus has been to help the Gen 4s.
To me, Glock 17s and 19s have almost always demonstrated erratic ejection. I think most of the time I was told I was either limp wristing, or just not having enough mass behind the gun. So being de-masculated by my glock shooting peers, I went over to the 1911.
While I have not studied the changes in the gen 3 product line, it seems to me that the symptoms are identical to what the gen 4s are experiencing. It would be much easier for me if I had access to the engineering drawings and tolerance specifications...
Randy
Heavy Metal
12-24-11, 18:13
I took my new Gen 3 RTF-2 G-17 to the range today. Did the same thing ALL my gen three 17's and 19's do. That is to clear the ejection port but eject erratically. Got popped in the face a few times. When I got to the gas station and looked in the mirror washing up, I had a couple of black circles on my forehead above the top of my shooting glasses where the cases struck me.
My G-20 10mm however, ejects positively and with the predicitability of a good Swiss Watch, dropping the cases in a small area.
All my Gen 3's 9mm's will be getting the improved ejector when they become available.
platoonDaddy
12-24-11, 20:08
While I have not studied the changes in the gen 3 product line, it seems to me that the symptoms are identical to what the gen 4s are experiencing. It would be much easier for me if I had access to the engineering drawings and tolerance specifications...
Randy
Have you ever talked to Glock about being a consultant on this or any issue? From your postings, you certainly have a grasp of the issues and one would assume Glock would have you on their payroll as an outside consultant.
I signed up for the Glock Armorer's class at SHOT show. Do you think I will be able to get any insight from there about these issues?
Certainly Glock has a big research project in place to study and fix these issues. I wonder if the "big lab" is in Austria or here or both. Human behavior predicts that internally the company has factions pointing fingers, denying responsibility, scapegoating, and fibbing about who did what. My guess is that things have got down to the nut cutting at the corporate level, especially since the bean counters at this point are having to wear diapers and the engineers and techs are saying "I told you so." My view is that they were fixing stuff that wasn't broke.
Have you ever talked to Glock about being a consultant on this or any issue? From your postings, you certainly have a grasp of the issues and one would assume Glock would have you on their payroll as an outside consultant.
Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ramblings.
I have not spoken to anyone at Glock yet. In my experience, the engineers get ruffled feathers when outsiders offer assistance. I will make myself available to them at SHOT if they are interested.
In many cases the engineers are not shooters, and therefore don't see how their products behave outside the cleanroom environment. Don't get me wrong, most of them are brilliant. But often they rely on feedback from users who don't speak the same language. The result is often a "patch" rather than a cure.
I believe that my solution has merit, but it will probably take one of their engineers dissecting my parts and modifications before anyone listens.
As with Smith & Wesson, Glock is a big ship that is slow to turn...
-Randy
Wayne Dobbs
12-25-11, 12:23
However Randy, S&W isn't a "ship" infused with an overdose of badly founded Teutonic arrogance. Methinks Glock's ship will not change course, but simply drive itself aground.
However Randy, S&W isn't a "ship" infused with a overdose of badly founded Teutonic arrogance. Methinks Glock's ship will not change course, but simply drive itself aground.
I suppose that I could see their arrogance as an opportunity for me.
The sad fact is that all the horizontal stovepipes and goofy ejection could be cured in three simple steps...
Wayne Dobbs
12-26-11, 14:47
Randy,
Your objectivity in this matter is refreshing and valuable to all of us who operate Glocks. I've used them for over 20 years and have always had nagging questions about their extraction and ejection characteristics. Your explanations have caused lots of lights to go on for me and certainly many others regarding this mess.
Glock is overwhelmed by significant corporate inertia and if they're going to keep on manufacturing a popular, yet marginal, product then I would do the American thing and market and produce the fix!
Randy,
Your objectivity in this matter is refreshing and valuable to all of us who operate Glocks. I've used them for over 20 years and have always had nagging questions about their extraction and ejection characteristics. Your explanations have caused lots of lights to go on for me and certainly many others regarding this mess.
Glock is overwhelmed by significant corporate inertia and if they're going to keep on manufacturing a popular, yet marginal, product then I would do the American thing and market and produce the fix!
Thank you Wayne,
I rely on the feedback and input from professionals such as yourself and others to help me decide on what projects to tackle next.
The Glock has always confounded me with it's ejection into or near my face and stovepipes. Even though they were working, I don't believe brass in the face is helpful to anyone. In a gunfight, we may not have the luxury of wearing safety glasses. One piece of brass in the eye could be catastrophic. The company might not worry about this possibility, but I do.
-Randy
I don't recall brass-to-the-face issues in older/working Gen-3's - is this a common complaint?
Regarding Gen 4, I have had constant and consistent failures with my two. Need more experience with the 0-4-3 spring + Wolf Extractor + White Noise Extractor Plunger Spring to see if it finally resolves the issues.
i heard it was the later produced gen 3-4's
Heavy Metal
12-26-11, 20:41
I don't recall brass-to-the-face issues in older/working Gen-3's - is this a common complaint?
Read my post on the previous page near the bottom.
My experience with non optimal ejection pattern Glocks dates back to the mid 80's.
Doc Safari
12-27-11, 08:49
I know it's just one more anecdote, but I've had Glocks eject brass into my face since the early 1990's when I bought my first G17. That's the reason that gun got traded off. Later I bought a couple of 19's, 17's, a 22, a couple of 26's. Some ejected brass into my face; others didn't.
To me, Glock 17s and 19s have almost always demonstrated erratic ejection.
While I have not studied the changes in the gen 3 product line, it seems to me that the symptoms are identical to what the gen 4s are experiencing. It would be much easier for me if I had access to the engineering drawings and tolerance specifications...
Randy
Bingo! Glock pistols I've owned(a lot)have always spit spent brass right back into the shooters face, an issue over which I've been sending pistols back to Glock, for well over a decade. I currently own three gen4 Glock pistols, a G22 & a pair of G19's, the 22 has been flawless, the 19's not so. Interestingly, I purchased a new gen3 G17 late this fall, and it's doing everything that the gen4's are noted to do, which is to say stovepiping, and spitting brass right back into my face, the one difference being the fact that it's doing so even with any ultra-hot +P+ ammo I feed it, which has historically been my fix for the issue.
In my opinion the problem has gotten significantly worse, frankly I'm sick of sending guns back to them only to recieve them back doing exactly the same thing, no performance improvement whatsoever...
It's totally unacceptable in a defensive sidearm to be pelted by brass right between your eyes. As I said, historically I've cured the issue by relying on hotter ammo, I've fed over 40,000 rounds of Federal 9BPLE through various 9mm glock pistols over the years for just this reason, however thats not working with the new gen3 17.
I love Glock's interface with my hand, I love the trigger reset, and I love the low bore axis, however those are all moot if you're likely to blind yourself with the thing at the worst possible moment...
I think this is a disaster for Glock, but it's a disaster thats been unfolding for two decades....
Guinnessman
12-28-11, 08:27
I am picking up a Glock 19 Gen 3 with a test fire date from 11/10/11 this week. It is going to be the backup to my current Glock 19. I realize the risk of purchasing a current production Gen 3, but I need a backup to my current Gen 3. If this gun does not perform I plan on waiting for Randy and his crew to find the fix.:D
This topic has been going on for a while now, so i decided to do a little testing for my self. I own a RTF 17 produced 3/2011 and I have fired about 800 rounds through it without any of the problems mentioned on this thread. The gun is all stock and has the dip extractor and 336 ejector installed. So, I decided to bring in the most inexperienced shooter I could find to test out my theory. Well after much though my mother fit the bill. She does have some range time and her Sig seems to work well for her. But she is much smaller than me and has nowhere near the grip srength or the mass in her arm that I do.(She is 5,2 125 pounds, and I'm 6,5 295 pounds) So at the range I load and fire 17 rounds without any problems. I then load her mag and within a couple of rounds she was catching brass to head and face, with a couple to the shoulder area. I then loaded and fired another 17 rounds myself without any problems. We went back and forth with the same results for 200 rounds. All of my rounds ejected normally, and most of hers did not. There were no jams, just eratic ejection for her. Now I know these are unscientific results but could it be that these newer glocks just seem to prefer larger and dare I say it, stronger people to work correctly? I understand that a weapon should work regardless of who is holding it but has anyone else experienced this?
platoonDaddy
12-28-11, 10:47
be that these newer glocks just seem to prefer larger and dare I say it, stronger people to work correctly? I understand that a weapon should work regardless of who is holding it but has anyone else experienced this?
Don't know if you ever watched or heard "hickok45" watch this video with white box ammo, start at 7:11 and watch the ejection of the spent round.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5rDSB9JAqo
This topic has been going on for a while now, so i decided to do a little testing for my self. I own a RTF 17 produced 3/2011 and I have fired about 800 rounds through it without any of the problems mentioned on this thread. The gun is all stock and has the dip extractor and 336 ejector installed. So, I decided to bring in the most inexperienced shooter I could find to test out my theory. Well after much though my mother fit the bill. She does have some range time and her Sig seems to work well for her. But she is much smaller than me and has nowhere near the grip srength or the mass in her arm that I do.(She is 5,2 125 pounds, and I'm 6,5 295 pounds) So at the range I load and fire 17 rounds without any problems. I then load her mag and within a couple of rounds she was catching brass to head and face, with a couple to the shoulder area. I then loaded and fired another 17 rounds myself without any problems. We went back and forth with the same results for 200 rounds. All of my rounds ejected normally, and most of hers did not. There were no jams, just eratic ejection for her. Now I know these are unscientific results but could it be that these newer glocks just seem to prefer larger and dare I say it, stronger people to work correctly? I understand that a weapon should work regardless of who is holding it but has anyone else experienced this?
Interesting test and observations. Yeah, unscientific, but given some time and broader test subjects, but maybe you're on to something.
I recently purchased a G17 Gen 4, test fire date of 10/2011 and the 30274 ejector. Like many others, I have been monitoring updates regarding the 9 mm Glocks and was sort of waiting to see problems resolve themselved. However, I came across an awesome deal on the G17 during a Black Friday sale, so I figured that I'd give it a try.
I've only put a few hundred rounds through mine, so it's not a solid indicator either way, but in that time, all positive ejection and no malfunctions. Two of guys that I shoot with have a Gen 4 G17 and a Gen 3 RTF G17 that was purchased in the last year. I am not sure on what ejectors, extractors, springs, test fire date, etc. that they have on them, but they both have had 1,000s of rounds through them without the malfunctions or irregular ejection noted here.
One common thread is that we are all "stout" individuals. I'm 5'8" 200 lbs (I'd like to say at least 1/2 of that is muscle :bad: haha) and my two friends are both like 6'0" 200 and 240 lbs or so. Even my friend's brother, who is an inexperienced shooter has done fine with these G17's. He's a stout guy as well.
Another common threads to our "test group" of shooters, is that we mostly shoot 115 gr FMJ (Remington UMC, Fiocchi, PMC, all kinds) at the range and did so for the first few hundred rounds through the gun. My friends have since shot JHP and other loads, also without any problems.
So yes, I've noticed half of what you experienced. I haven't had my lighter, more slender friends try the guns, but something that I will note in future range trips.
One other note from reading through all of these threads, many experienced shooters here have noted problems with these guns, and I know of at least one who isn't really slender, so I doubt that that is all there is to it. Many have mentioned that they have had problems and they DEFINITELY weren't limp wristing and were still having problems.
In any case, I did find it your observations interesting and somewhat inline with what I've noticed. Who knows, maybe the extra mass behind the guns helps or something.
Don't know if you ever watched or heard "hickok45" watch this video with white box ammo, start at 7:11 and watch the ejection of the spent round.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5rDSB9JAqo
Are you referring to the 3 or so casings that shot out vertical and even to the left of the gun? That was with what he described as the lowest power ammo that he had used.
The video didn't really show the ejection for the other two ammo types though.
TacMedic556
12-28-11, 11:24
Are you referring to the 3 or so casings that shot out vertical and even to the left of the gun? That was with what he described as the lowest power ammo that he had used.
The video didn't really show the ejection for the other two ammo types though.
Interesting video. I love Hickok45. Great guy on youtube. Incrdible shooter.
At 7:08 and 7:09 ( i watched it 3 times and paused it) he gets 2-3 ejections to the left, and a couple straight up. Again at 7:19-20 left side ejection with some straight up. At 7:21 watch I believe the 2nd or 3rd to last shot just dribble out to the left side.
Then watch him shoot the GOLD DOT defense (hot) ammo at 9:43. Beautiful ejections just flying out to the right. Nice video. Thanks for posting.
Interesting.
platoonDaddy
12-28-11, 11:51
Are you referring to the 3 or so casings that shot out vertical and even to the left of the gun? That was with what he described as the lowest power ammo that he had used.
The video didn't really show the ejection for the other two ammo types though.
The point is "he had erratic ejections"
The point is "he had erratic ejections"
Gotcha. Was just making sure I caught what you were trying to point out. I missed it the first pass through the video. I was expecting to see a stovepipe or some other malfunction.
I haven't noticed any erratic ejections and definitely no brass to the face or head so far in my G17. I don't shoot nearly the amount that Hickok45 does. I would love to have that kind of private range on my property (which I assumed it where he was shooting).
Thanks for posting the video. I'll have to check out more of his videos.
I view Hickok45 videos daily. I enjoy his no BS approach to weapons testing. drck1000 i get what your saying about more experienced shooters who aren't smaller in stature still having problems. In my opinion it's really difficult to pin the problem down to just one thing in those circumstances i.e bad or weak ammo, marginal shooting techniques, new oem parts from glock, or just a plain old fashion jam or failure. I just never completly bought into the new non MIM extractor is the route of all evil for these pistols, so I started looking for another reason that was more logical to me. Maybe my observations are complete crap and can't be reproduced but it makes sense. I think it's at least worth a trip to range with a known working gen 4 9mm and a small friend to see if it continues to work correctly.
I think I found a cure for the Gen 4 ejection disease.
I'm 100 rounds in so far with my test with NO ISSUES.
I'm gonna shoot 300 more today.
Parts used:
- 0-4-3 RSA
- 30274 Ejector
- New "non-dip" OEM Extractor <- possible solution
I view Hickok45 videos daily. I enjoy his no BS approach to weapons testing. drck1000 i get what your saying about more experienced shooters who aren't smaller in stature still having problems. In my opinion it's really difficult to pin the problem down to just one thing in those circumstances i.e bad or weak ammo, marginal shooting techniques, new oem parts from glock, or just a plain old fashion jam or failure. I just never completly bought into the new non MIM extractor is the route of all evil for these pistols, so I started looking for another reason that was more logical to me. Maybe my observations are complete crap and can't be reproduced but it makes sense. I think it's at least worth a trip to range with a known working gen 4 9mm and a small friend to see if it continues to work correctly.
I too have been troubled and frankly confused at the issues reported. TONS of reports on problems and many from very credible/experienced/awesome shooters. While my personal experience, albeit limited, have been that the Gen 4s and recent production Gen 3s run just fine. Sure, none of my friends or I use our pistols for duty use, but still.
The inexperienced shooter that was with us last time had a few jams in my friend's Springfield Match 1911, which we believe was due to limp wristing. But he shot the G17 just fine. Again, not to say that applies to everyone else or that the other reported Glock malfunctions were due to limp wristing or other issues. Just saying that my friend probably was also limp wristing the G17 and was doing fine.
A buddy who is a firearms instructor for US CBP comes back next week and we are planning on going to the range with him, so I will pick his brain on things. Their issued pistol is the HK P2000, but he's shot a lot of previous generation Glocks. Will see what he has to say about the Gen 4s and recent Gen3s. FWIW, he's a heavier set guy as well.
Like you said, who knows. But I'll definitely make note of the next time we go shooting with one of our lighter stature friends.
I think I found a cure for the Gen 4 ejection disease.
I'm 100 rounds in so far with my test with NO ISSUES.
I'm gonna shoot 300 more today.
Parts used:
- 0-4-3 RSA
- 30274 Ejector
- New "non-dip" OEM Extractor <- possible solution
When did they start coming out with the newer "non-dip" extractors?
Doc Safari
12-28-11, 14:05
When did they start coming out with the newer "non-dip" extractors?
Amen. This is a major revelation if not a typo. I stand behind my "non-dip" LWD extractor. The OEM part is in a drawer somewhere.
When did they start coming out with the newer "non-dip" extractors?
Amen. This is a major revelation if not a typo. I stand behind my "non-dip" LWD extractor. The OEM part is in a drawer somewhere.
UPDATE:
Just came back from the range and shot 2 G19 Gen 4s back to back
Experiment #1:
Glock 19 Gen 4 (August 2010)
-OEM 30274 Ejector
-OEM Extractor (#1) with the dip (polished)
-OEM 0-4-3 RSA
Ammo: Independence 115gr and Wolf (WPA) 115r
Rounds: 200
Result: Erractic ejection, but less than usual with the new 30274 ejector. One FTE and a handful of ejections to the face.
Experiment #2:
Glock 19 Gen 4 (July 2010)
-OEM 30274 Ejector
-OEM Extractor (#3) for a .40 caliber (does NOT have a dip)
-OEM 0-4-3 RSA
Ammo: Wolf (WPA) 115r
Rounds: 400
Result: Consistent ejection to 4 o'clock. ZERO malfunctions. ZERO erratic ejections.
So far those are the results. I will shoot some more to verify that this is not just a "honeymoon" period, but so far not a single issue.
OEM .40 Extractor (top) vs. OEM 9MM extractor (bottom)
You can see the obvious differences between the two.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7144/6590363191_07a2143e9e_b.jpg
platoonDaddy
12-28-11, 16:37
UPDATE:
Just came back from the range and shot 2 G19 Gen 4s back to back
Experiment #1:
Glock 19 Gen 4 (August 2010)
-OEM 30274 Ejector
-OEM Extractor (#1) with the dip (polished)
-OEM 0-4-3 RSA
Ammo: Independence 115gr and Wolf (WPA) 115r
Rounds: 200
Result: Erractic ejection, but less than usual with the new 30274 ejector. One FTE and a handful of ejections to the face.
Experiment #2:
Glock 19 Gen 4 (July 2010)
-OEM 30274 Ejector
-OEM Extractor (#3) for a .40 caliber (does NOT have a dip)
-OEM 0-4-3 RSA
Ammo: Wolf (WPA) 115r
Rounds: 400
Result: Consistent ejection to 4 o'clock. ZERO malfunctions. ZERO erratic ejections.
So far those are the results. I will shoot some more to verify that this is not just a "honeymoon" period, but so far not a single issue.
OEM .40 Extractor (top) vs. OEM 9MM extractor (bottom)
You can see the obvious differences between the two.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7144/6590363191_07a2143e9e_b.jpg
Great POST and very objective, thank you.
My Gen 4 G17 back for 2nd time and just rcvd call from Glock, he wanted to verify type of ammo with erratic ejections. He also said "we are going to install an test a different extractor. When I pushed him on .40 extractor he danced around the question.
Great POST and very objective, thank you.
My Gen 4 G17 back for 2nd time and just rcvd call from Glock, he wanted to verify type of ammo with erratic ejections. He also said "we are going to install an test a different extractor. When I pushed him on .40 extractor he danced around the question.
Differences between the 9MM and .40 extractors:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7162/6590452309_f984321dfd_b.jpg
I also believe that the .40 caliber extractor is also MIM or cast, because you can see some obvious cast lines....BUT...they are nowhere near as bad as the 9MM variant. Somewhere along the line, someone messed up the cast for the 9MM version and still passed QC.
I'm still confused to as which part of the extractor is the dipped part.
TacMedic556
12-29-11, 00:14
I'm still confused to as which part of the extractor is the dipped part.
if removed from the gun and laid flat on a table the slight "dip" is on the largest, top surface. I'll find you a pic.
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRa6r-vbyoOKl39w7sF279501Azx1IERqAeyccHYS9yA7wyUCdU
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0lvhUyVFw50HcflwNJSPtaND_BJ5aXUz4BqtyxxHdg9R7wlB3
So, if I were looking at the top of the exposed part of the extractor when installed in the slide, that is where the dip occurs?
So, if I were looking at the top of the exposed part of the extractor when installed in the slide, that is where the dip occurs?
That is correct
FYI,
I just got my replacement Gen 3 G19 slide from Glock this morning. It's the new production type with the non-shiny finish. Most interestingly, the extractor that came with it is also dipped, but is not so tight where it binds into the slide. When comparing it to my other dipped extractor (RTF G19, dated nov 2009), the dimensions (thickness) appears minutely thinner. I'll get pictures up later. I'm not sure how many variations of new extractors currently out there for G19. since some say Glock also came out with new non-dipped extractors as well...
Haven't shot with this new extractor/slide combo yet.
TacMedic556
12-30-11, 20:36
FYI,
I just got my replacement Gen 3 G19 slide from Glock this morning. It's the new production type with the non-shiny finish. Most interestingly, the extractor that came with it is also dipped, but is not so tight where it binds into the slide. When comparing it to my other dipped extractor (RTF G19, dated nov 2009), the dimensions (thickness) appears minutely thinner. I'll get pictures up later. I'm not sure how many variations of new extractors currently out there for G19. since some say Glock also came out with new non-dipped extractors as well...
Haven't shot with this new extractor/slide combo yet.
what was the reason for the replacement slide ? Issues? What was the date of test fire?
The point is "he had erratic ejections"
I just watched the video and you're right. Some of the rounds even went to the ****ing left! The 147 gr Gold Dots ejected beautifully, though.
what was the reason for the replacement slide ? Issues? What was the date of test fire?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92986
I don't think the replacement slide was test fired as I only gave them my stripped slide (of extractors, sights, etc). It was clean and bone dry. They gave me a complete slide with stock sights, striker, extractor, etc.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4155/p1030620n.jpg
Edit:
As I stated earlier, the extractor falls out freely when taking it out. This is a newer production Gen 3 slide, so I'm not sure if the tolerances have changed with these newer slides or if these are a newer/different batch of dipped extractors. The dipped extractor on my RTF G19 (nov 2009) had to pry out before I polished carefully to where it falls out freely when taking it out (like the older extractors). I had positive and strong ejection with this polished RTF extractor.
I'm going to try to shoot this new slide in the coming weeks to see how the ejection goes.
call_me_ski
12-30-11, 23:51
I decided to take a risk and got a good price on a brand new glock 19 gen 3 that I couldn't pass up on. the test fire date on the gun is 11/17/11. The extractor falls out freely while dissembling the slide. I have about 400 rounds through the gun right now and the ejection is positive and consistent thus far. I'll get back to you in a couple months or so when I hit the 2500 mark.
For what it is worth 2 coworkers have a early gen 4 17s that run great.
Guinnessman
12-31-11, 09:26
I decided to take a risk and got a good price on a brand new glock 19 gen 3 that I couldn't pass up on. the test fire date on the gun is 11/17/11. The extractor falls out freely while dissembling the slide. I have about 400 rounds through the gun right now and the ejection is positive and consistent thus far. I'll get back to you in a couple months or so when I hit the 2500 mark.
For what it is worth 2 coworkers have a early gen 4 17s that run great.
I am picking up a new Gen 3 G19 next week with a test fire date of 11/10/11 and I hope it turns out to be a winner. It is going to be the back-up to my current Gen 3 G19.
This week I had the chance to fire another 150 rounds through my Gen 4 G17. This brings the round count to 400 since Glock fixed the gun with the new ejector.
I am suppose to pick up a new later production Gen3 G34 today. Can anyone report on issues they have had with this model?
TacMedic556
12-31-11, 11:52
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92986
I don't think the replacement slide was test fired as I only gave them my stripped slide (of extractors, sights, etc). It was clean and bone dry. They gave me a complete slide with stock sights, striker, extractor, etc.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4155/p1030620n.jpg
Edit:
As I stated earlier, the extractor falls out freely when taking it out. This is a newer production Gen 3 slide, so I'm not sure if the tolerances have changed with these newer slides or if these are a newer/different batch of dipped extractors. The dipped extractor on my RTF G19 (nov 2009) had to pry out before I polished carefully to where it falls out freely when taking it out (like the older extractors). I had positive and strong ejection with this polished RTF extractor.
I'm going to try to shoot this new slide in the coming weeks to see how the ejection goes.
Sorry if I am confused, I am just trying to figure out what reason Glock decided to send you a new slide. What was the original issue you were having with the slide that you had to have replaced? You sent it back and Glock just sent you a new slide?
The test fire question I has was, referring to your older slide. What was the date of test fire on the slide that you no longer have, the one replaced?
Sorry if I am confused, I am just trying to figure out what reason Glock decided to send you a new slide. What was the original issue you were having with the slide that you had to have replaced? You sent it back and Glock just sent you a new slide?
The test fire question I has was, referring to your older slide. What was the date of test fire on the slide that you no longer have, the one replaced?
The link I posted above explained why I got a new slide: the breach face on my old one cracked, causing it to be inoperable. Reason why can be found in that thread in the link above.
The test date of that particular G19 Gen 3 was Feb 2009. The gun had none of the extraction issues we're seeing now with current/newer production guns.
TacMedic556
01-01-12, 10:48
oh ok, thanks. I remember that thread. Glad they sent you a new one. You using snap caps now? I actually bought some after your post on that a while back. I never dry fired much, but now I use the caps every time. thanks.
oh ok, thanks. I remember that thread. Glad they sent you a new one. You using snap caps now? I actually bought some after your post on that a while back. I never dry fired much, but now I use the caps every time. thanks.
Haha, you bet I do. I bought a pack of them the day I mailed my slide in to Glock.
platoonDaddy
01-01-12, 17:52
oh ok, thanks. I remember that thread. Glad they sent you a new one. You using snap caps now? I actually bought some after your post on that a while back. I never dry fired much, but now I use the caps every time. thanks.
Dang: I probably average 2-300 dry fires every week without using snap caps. G26OD, G19OD and Gen17.
500 rounds so far with the .40 caliber extractor (no dip)
Had two cases eject up the middle, but other than that...no issues.
are 40 cal extractors available for purchase from glock?
are 40 cal extractors available for purchase from glock?
Yes
You can also purchase them from other retailers online
TacMedic556
01-03-12, 10:16
Great day at range with Gen 3 G19. Purchased direct from Glock as Law Enforcement around February of 2011.
Fired 100 rounds of PMC 124 grain. Not a single issue.
Doc Safari
01-03-12, 14:42
I realize that most of this thread has concerned 9mm Glocks, but there have been a couple of inquiries about other calibers.
Last Thursday I purchased a Gen4 G22 with fired cases dated October 2011 (so it should have all the latest upgrades to correct RSA issues, etc.). It has the dipped extractor.
I know it's a sample of one Gen4 G22, but I ran 100 rounds of WWB flat nose through it without bothering to do anything but check for debris in the bore first. The gun ran flawlessly with not a single spent case ejected at me.
The only issue that I noticed was an inability to get the 15th round into two of the three supplied magazines even with the loading tool. In fact, I'm just a little concerned I damaged the feed lips trying to force the issue because I had rounds "flip the bird" and fly out of the mag a couple of times as I struggled to get that last round in. I also experienced a situation where the round looked loaded in the mag, but was in fact only wedged between the feel lips and not actually under them. After a couple of complete loading and unloading cycles with these mags, they held the last rounds just fine. My "abuse" trying to load these mags feed lips makes me want to make them range mags, though.
I only have 9mm mags, but sometimes the follower gets hung up or something when I'm loading the mags making it extremely difficult or impossible to load the last round. I usually just unload the mag and start over and all rounds can be loaded.
Did you try unloading and reloading the mags first?
Doc Safari
01-03-12, 15:55
No. I've never had an issue with brand new mags until this time. My first Glock was a G22 in 1993 or 1994. I've owned only the 9mm models other than that.
I've had to use the loader numerous times on brand new mags, but never had a failure to fit the last round in.
Have there been problems with non 9mm models??
Hi Guys,
I just tested a Gen 4 19 new from a customer. The 30274 ejector was added, and the current 0-3-4 RSA.
In our test gun the ejection pattern got WORSE in that the brass consistently ejected to the 11:00-12:00 position, with many hitting us in the head.
More to follow...
-Randy
Psalms144.1
01-09-12, 14:53
Randy - my experience was exactly the same with the "fully upgraded" new Gen4 G19 they sent me - it had the latest extractor, ejector and RSA and showed the most erratic ejection I've EVER seen in ANY semi-auto.
I'm watching this one with baited breath while I scrimp my money for a new platform...
Regards,
Kevin
TacMedic556
01-09-12, 15:03
Just go with the Gen 3. All of mine are functioning perfectly, even last week with the 115 grain PMC. Then we threw in some Winchester 124 grain +P NATO and it threw that brass even better.
Psalms144.1
01-09-12, 15:10
Tac - it was a 3rd Gen G19 that started this roller-coaster with ejection to 6 o'clock at high velocity - so I'm pretty "gun shy" about any new production G19 right now.
When I was on with a guy at Glock about the latest nightmare, I told him I wanted a reliable G19 of any generation that wouldn't eject erratically - then asked if Glock made anything like that anymore. His response was "I'd like to tell you we do... but you've had three bad ones now, so..."
I'm not sure what's going on with Glock, but, I'm willing to bow out for a while and let others be the long-term beta testers for their "improved" parts and production.
Regards,
Kevin
just the 0-4-3 RSA, 30274 Ejector, and the OEM dipped extractor will not fix the ejection issue for most people.
It's all about the extractor (which I've swapped to a non-dipped .40 cal extractor) and had no issues (500 rounds so far).
Great day at range with Gen 3 G19. Purchased direct from Glock as Law Enforcement around February of 2011.
Fired 100 rounds of PMC 124 grain. Not a single issue.
Shoot some more because 100 rounds mean nothing
:shout:
Randy - my experience was exactly the same with the "fully upgraded" new Gen4 G19 they sent me - it had the latest extractor, ejector and RSA and showed the most erratic ejection I've EVER seen in ANY semi-auto.
I'm watching this one with baited breath while I scrimp my money for a new platform...
Regards,
Kevin
We have a kit in the works that should:
provide uniform ejection
consistency in extracting WWB
increase brass exit velocity to eliminate stovepiping
Tac - it was a 3rd Gen G19 that started this roller-coaster with ejection to 6 o'clock at high velocity - so I'm pretty "gun shy" about any new production G19 right now.
When I was on with a guy at Glock about the latest nightmare, I told him I wanted a reliable G19 of any generation that wouldn't eject erratically - then asked if Glock made anything like that anymore. His response was "I'd like to tell you we do... but you've had three bad ones now, so..."
I'm not sure what's going on with Glock, but, I'm willing to bow out for a while and let others be the long-term beta testers for their "improved" parts and production.
Regards,
Kevin
This last Saturday, I shot my older Gen 3 G19 (feb 2009) with a replacement new production slide (received late Dec 2011) with the new internals (sans barrel and recoil spring). Came with dipped extractor, erratic ejection from 4-6 oclock, including hitting my eye pro. Unacceptable. While at the range, I took out my original non-dipped extractor (circa Feb 2009) and put it in. Issues went away immediately.
Was shooting PMC, Federal, PRVI.
Ejector is original older 336. If someone's using a Gen 3 9mm, most of the problems will go away with a older OEM extractor or the LWD.
Can't speak for Gen4s, don't own those.
I have faith that Randy & co. will fix these issues. My Gen 3 G17 has 506 rds fired, my Gen3 G19 has 1,179 rds fired. Mostly WWB 115gr ball and also Fed HST 147gr +p & Win T 124gr +p. Flawless function, so far, including shooting single handed, weak & strong side and rapid fire.
Date on shell casing for G19 is 01/06/10, & G17 is 03/08/11.
This last Saturday, I shot my older Gen 3 G19 (feb 2009) with a replacement new production slide (received late Dec 2011) with the new internals (sans barrel and recoil spring). Came with dipped extractor, erratic ejection from 4-6 oclock, including hitting my eye pro. Unacceptable. While at the range, I took out my original non-dipped extractor (circa Feb 2009) and put it in. Issues went away immediately.
Was shooting PMC, Federal, PRVI.
Ejector is original older 336. If someone's using a Gen 3 9mm, most of the problems will go away with a older OEM extractor or the LWD.
Can't speak for Gen4s, don't own those.
Know of any online retailers that stock the older style extractor? I would like to stick to OEM parts. Plus, I'm sick of waiting for LWD's back order. I have the older 336 ejector also, and I guess the dipped extractor if this is what it is as noted in the picture.
Note: picture is not of my gun.
http://i.imgur.com/WsUW1.jpg
Know of any online retailers that stock the older style extractor? I would like to stick to OEM parts. Plus, I'm sick of waiting for LWD's back order. I have the older 336 ejector also, and I guess the dipped extractor if this is what it is as noted in the picture.
Note: picture is not of my gun.
http://i.imgur.com/WsUW1.jpg
maybe you can try the .40 caliber extractor...
the .40 caliber OEM extractor works for me so far and they're not dipped like the new 9mm OEM extractors. Out of 500 rounds so far, I've only had 2-3 eject towards my face with no FTEs. That's pretty good in my book.
Pics of my extractor. Looks really beat up.
Has a 2 on the circular part.
~800 rounds.
http://i.imgur.com/gMcMb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JmjLE.jpg
I think it's baffling a lot of folks, but there are positive reports coming in from those using new ejectors who have replaced extractors many times (including those from LWD) with no prior benefit.
As I mentioned earlier I have a newer 3rd gen that extracts very well. My friend has a newer 3rd gen that does not. We swapped extractors at the range and his G19 was still exhibiting poor extraction and brass to the face. To rule out grip variation, I shot his and he shot mine. Same story. With his extractor in my gun, I was having zero issues. Swapped them back and nothing changed. We were using the same ammo and even interchanged mags, BTW. I should have swapped slide assemblies with him, but by then we had gome through 500 rounds and were finished for the day. Perhaps this weekend.
Perhaps some of the newer 3rd gen (and 4th gen) slides are milled with sufficient variance to cause the erratic ejection problems regardless of the extractor. That may be what Mikejg is getting at. See Randy's post (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92447) regarding the 4th gen ejection ports. Or, perhaps the frames are manufactured with sufficent variance to affect the distance or geometry between the ejector and the port. I don't know.:confused:
I hope Randy or someone can shed light on this as I will not buy any more new Glocks until this is resolved.
Update?
I just read through Randy's thread. It is very interesting. His observations seem to be in-line with what Is happening, at least with my new Gen 3.
I knew APEX was working on possible fixes, but must have missed that thread before.
What thread are you referring to?
I remember that in the 1911 .45acp, ejection direction can be tweaked by filing/stoning the ejector face to alter its shape. Years ago I learned this tidbit from one of Colt's fitters. Would this approach work in tuning the erratically ejecting Glocks?
First off, let me say as skeptical as I am of this being a fix I decided to give it ago anyway. As I posted earlier (in another thread I believe) I have 4 earlier Gen3 G19's that have functioned flawlessly over several thousand rounds each. I also have a Gen4 G19 flawless at as of tonight 4450 rounds but I'll put that update in the Gen4 thread.
My most recent purchase a Gen3 G19 Nickel Boron acquired in september has been a disappointment of sorts. Currently at 1,050
rounds has had a high rate of 6'oclock ejections at my face, neck,
arms etc, including recently my first ever inline stovepipe in any of my guns.
After reading all the threads I decided to give Cosmos M3's rec a try and purchased a .40cal extractor from Glockmeister. It arrived Wed, I installed it and finally got to try it out tonight.
Gun in question
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq127/vigilant2_2008/IMG_0312.jpg
with new .40cal extractor
http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq127/vigilant2_2008/IMG_0315.jpg
Well, so far after 200 rounds tonight with 115gr Federal Champion
from Wallyworld I can say I only had 1 high 6'oclock ejection over me
and all others were 3:30-4:30. No malfunctions, this includes strong/weak hand only shooting.
Way too early for me to get excited, but will see if I can get up to the thousand mark with this extractor with consistent ejection and no FTE's. Will update.
Psalms144.1
01-22-12, 14:12
I met with a senior Warranty Manager at SHOT this week reference my 3rd Gen G19, which was replaced by a Gen4 G19, which is in for replacement - both due to erratic ejection issues.
He emphatically stated that I needed to stick with a 3rd Gen G19, and promised he'd get one out to me after my requested 200 round ammunition test. On Friday I contacted him and he told me that the two new 3rd Gen G19s they tried to run 200 rounds through (shooting NATO ball FMJ) both exhibited erratic ejection. His suggestion now is, if I want a reliable G19 that doesn't have ejection issues, he needs to find me a pre-2010 production "demo" gun; since he and his folks simply have NO IDEA what's causing these problems.
At this point, I'm off to buy a P30 9mm w/LEM trigger. I just don't know if I should accept the used "demo" gun as a replacement for my new Gen4 G19, or if I should ask for something else with a higher resale value. Unfortunately, for now, I'm out of the Glock carrying business until they resolve these issues. I've been stuck carrying a high-dollar collector gun for the last 4+ months while Glock has unsuccessfully tried to get me a G19 that would run - I can't wait any more for them to get their act together.
This truly saddens me, as I have been shooting Glocks for over 20 years now, and I truly believe the G19 WAS the ultimate self-defense pistol. Time will tell if Glock can dig themselves out of this hole...
Regards,
Kevin
EzGoingKev
01-22-12, 14:44
I just don't know if I should accept the used "demo" gun as a replacement for my new Gen4 G19, or if I should ask for something else with a higher resale value.
I would ask if you could take the demo gun as a loaner until they sort out the problems with the Gen 4's. Once they have them sorted out then they swap the demo gun for a brand new Gen 4.
platoonDaddy
01-22-12, 14:47
I met with a senior Warranty Manager at SHOT this week reference my 3rd Gen G19, which was replaced by a Gen4 G19, which is in for replacement - both due to erratic ejection issues.
He emphatically stated that I needed to stick with a 3rd Gen G19, and promised he'd get one out to me after my requested 200 round ammunition test. On Friday I contacted him and he told me that the two new 3rd Gen G19s they tried to run 200 rounds through (shooting NATO ball FMJ) both exhibited erratic ejection. His suggestion now is, if I want a reliable G19 that doesn't have ejection issues, he needs to find me a pre-2010 production "demo" gun; since he and his folks simply have NO IDEA what's causing these problems.
At this point, I'm off to buy a P30 9mm w/LEM trigger. I just don't know if I should accept the used "demo" gun as a replacement for my new Gen4 G19, or if I should ask for something else with a higher resale value. Unfortunately, for now, I'm out of the Glock carrying business until they resolve these issues. I've been stuck carrying a high-dollar collector gun for the last 4+ months while Glock has unsuccessfully tried to get me a G19 that would run - I can't wait any more for them to get their act together.
This truly saddens me, as I have been shooting Glocks for over 20 years now, and I truly believe the G19 WAS the ultimate self-defense pistol. Time will tell if Glock can dig themselves out of this hole...
Regards,
Kevin
OMG! What a friggin bitch. As stated by others, I am ordering the .40 cal extractor
Psalms144.1
01-22-12, 15:19
I forgot to add that the Warranty guys are recommending the new ejector for 3rd Gen 9mms as well, though even with it installed neither of the two they pulled for me could make it through the 200 round test I asked them to perform.
I actually feel bad for the Warranty guys - they have been nothing but supportive and friendly throughout this whole ordeal; and I can tell that their level of frustration is getting pretty darned high at this point.
Regards,
Kevin
I talked to the CA Glock rep guy. He was sort of a dbag.
just got back from a defensive handgun course and shot 500 rounds (1000 rounds total ITD since my OEM .40 caliber extrator).
ZERO malfunctions and I had neat piles at my 3-4 o'clock 5 feet away (strong hand, weak hand, prone, kneeling, running, etc)
Can't say the same with some of the Sigs I saw malfunction left and right.
My setup:
-30274 Ejector
-OEM .40 caliber extractor
Can't promise that the erratic ejections will be fixed without the 30274 ejector (I have not tried this)
Well, so far after 200 rounds tonight with 115gr Federal Champion
from Wallyworld I can say I only had 1 high 6'oclock ejection over me
and all others were 3:30-4:30. No malfunctions, this includes strong/weak hand only shooting.
Way too early for me to get excited, but will see if I can get up to the thousand mark with this extractor with consistent ejection and no FTE's. Will update.
Good to hear that it's working for you so far. Have you noticed that the .40 caliber extractor does not have a "dip" like the 9MM variant?
Yes I have. I didn't take any photos with them side by side, but looking at them the difference was significant. The .40 actually looked like my other pre-2010 glock extractors.
JBecker 72
01-22-12, 19:20
I have 2 gen 3 9mm Glocks, a 19 with about 4000 rounds through it with no problems, and a 34 I just bought with 200 rounds through it. The 19 was made in Feb 2010 and the 34 is Sep 2011, both have the dipped extractor. So far I have not had any erratic ejections or failures of any kind. I shoot a lot of wwb and RWS ammo.
My question is where is my 34 made? The slide says Austria, but the frame doesn't say made in Austria, it just says Glock inc Smyrna, GA. My 19 says made in Austria and has a shiny finish where the 34 has a dull gray finish.
brushy bill
01-23-12, 20:08
[QUOTE=JMy question is where is my 34 made? The slide says Austria, but the frame doesn't say made in Austria, it just says Glock inc Smyrna, GA. My 19 says made in Austria and has a shiny finish where the 34 has a dull gray finish.[/QUOTE]
There is a similar thread elsehwere, but answer is Smyrna. Glock has been making the frame there for several years for 17/22. I do not know if any of the other models are made in Smyrna however.
I'm about to pick up a Gen 4 19 at the beginning of the month and from what I've gathered in this thread it's a roll of the dice? I was hoping there would be some way to spot the good ones...
Smitty,
It is luck of the draw at this point.
Grab one produced AFTER November of 2011.
Make sure it has the 30274 ejector.
Other than that...there is nothing else we can do as consumers other than to keep bitching at Glock to fix their issues.
Grab one produced AFTER November of 2011.
Make sure it has the 30274 ejector.
Okay, that will be my plan. If I get a wild one then I guess I'll install a .40 extractor and cross my fingers!
I hope Glock gets their shit together soon...
Psalms144.1
01-25-12, 18:58
Mr. Smitty - I had one produced in Dec11, with all the latest upgrades (new RSA, new extractor, new ejector), and it was the worst dog of a Glock I've ever seen. The Warranty folks have NO IDEA why some of them work and some of them don't.
Worse, they pulled two different Dec11-Jan12 production THIRD GEN guns for me, and both showed erratic ejection and malfunctions.
My recommendation would be to steer clear of any 9mm Glock made in 2010 or later - but that's just me.
Regards,
Kevin
so I still don't get it a little bit..Glock produces a piece of junk MIM extractor, screwing the pooch and ****ing the duck on the Gen 3's, and they're trying to fix it with a new EJECTOR?!
I kick myself in the ass for not picking up extra good quality OEM extractors a few years ago! It looks like I'll have to get some of the lone wolf ones.
I just can't fathom that they can't figure this thing out :blink:
I was really jonesing for a new 19 but my next choice was an M&P9 Compact. I guess I will see what is available at the show at the beginning of the month :sad:
Psalms144.1
01-25-12, 20:29
I'm guessing that the extractor is the culprit, or, as Magsz pointed out, maybe a combination of the extractor and the extractor cut. Because, I got a new "non-dip" extractor the last time they sent my 3rd Gen OD gun back, but it still pinged me in the forehead one-three rounds out of every mag...
I do know that the warranty guys are trying the new ejector in 3rd Gen guns with ejection problems, but that obviously didn't solve the problem in the two 3rd Gen guns they pulled for me, so I think the ejector is just a very minor piece in this puzzle.
MrSmitty - I don't want to sour you on a G19, for my money, a properly functioning G19 is still the best fighting 9mm in the world. And, as you can see from other threads, there are PLENTY of people out there with recent production G19s that are running just fine...
Regards,
Kevin
I dont think its any mystery. Newest ejector, any lonewolf or apex extractor. Glock cant figure it out, maybe because they keep using their own extractors and those are the problem.
Just ran 200 rounds (500 total) through my Gen 3 G19 produced in July 2011, ammo used from the 500 rounds has been Fed American Eagle, Fiocchi, and WWB. Both 10 and 15 round Magazines have been used. This pistol has had no malfunctions but ejection is erratic, haven't had any brass rockets directly at my face or head but have had some bounce of the brim of my hat, I've even had about 5 or 6 rounds eject left. There seems to be no discernable way to predict the pattern, 1 round will eject pretty much straight up in the air, the next at 3 o'clock. At this time the ejection of this pistol is more of an irritation to me than anything else. Not sure if I even want to make any changed (i.e. Extractor or ejector). The only thing I have noticed is the ejection seems to be the most consistent when double or triple tapping a target.
TacMedic556
01-26-12, 14:09
Good observation. Not saying it is all of it, but I wonder if removing the human element as a variable and placing the gun in a vice would reveal anything?
If one secured it in a vice and fired only one round at a time on slow film, we could see something perhaps.
Just back from the range, color me impressed,my skepticism has turned to optimism. Ran another 200 rounds through my Gen3 G19 with the .40cal extractor installed. With the exception of one weak 5 o'clock ejection all rounds were at 3:30-4:30 with AUTHORITY. I saw
consistency that I do with my pre 2010 glocks. This was with Federal Champion from wallyworld. No brass hurled anywhere near my face, no malfunctions. Was able to concentrate on fundamentals and tear up 2" and 3" pasters:D . Can't emphasize enough the totally different
nature of the ejection. Will be hitting the range again Sat evening, God willing. Will update.
On a side note, put another 50 rounds through the Gen4 G19, nothing new , no malfunctions, no weird ejections, now at 4500 rounds. In relation to what TacMedic mentions about the human element, a friend from work who purchased his Gen4 the same time as I did (we got a discount for this, both guns are sequential #'s) started having brass eject at his head one after the other. He's just learning to shoot and had approx 700+ trouble free rounds before this. I watched him after his complaining about the brass hitting him and told him to lock his wrists/adjust his grip. Instantly, no more brass hitting him for the rest of the session. Take that for what its worth as there are far more accomplished shooters than me having
problems with the Gen4.
Just back from the range, color me impressed,my skepticism has turned to optimism. Ran another 200 rounds through my Gen3 G19 with the .40cal extractor installed. With the exception of one weak 5 o'clock ejection all rounds were at 3:30-4:30 with AUTHORITY. I saw
consistency that I do with my pre 2010 glocks. This was with Federal Champion from wallyworld. No brass hurled anywhere near my face, no malfunctions. Was able to concentrate on fundamentals and tear up 2" and 3" pasters:D . Can't emphasize enough the totally different
nature of the ejection. Will be hitting the range again Sat evening, God willing. Will update.
On a side note, put another 50 rounds through the Gen4 G19, nothing new , no malfunctions, no weird ejections, now at 4500 rounds. In relation to what TacMedic mentions about the human element, a friend from work who purchased his Gen4 the same time as I did (we got a discount for this, both guns are sequential #'s) started having brass eject at his head one after the other. He's just learning to shoot and had approx 700+ trouble free rounds before this. I watched him after his complaining about the brass hitting him and told him to lock his wrists/adjust his grip. Instantly, no more brass hitting him for the rest of the session. Take that for what its worth as there are far more accomplished shooters than me having
problems with the Gen4.
Did you buy the extractor kit or just the extractor? Can this be easily swapped out by the average person or do you need certain tools/skill level?
I purchased the kit, but used the same spring loaded bearing that was in the gun, only changed the extractor. First time doing this. You
only need a ball point pen or a narrow punch or micro flat head screwdriver for removal of the slide plate on the back of the slide. I'm
no armorer. I watched the video below and follwed the directions and it was easy. Just keep your thumb over the back of the slide when you remove the cover so parts don't go flying out:). Watch video.......................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JJ69X7Ttdo
I purchased the kit, but used the same spring loaded bearing that was in the gun, only changed the extractor. First time doing this. You
only need a ball point pen or a narrow punch or micro flat head screwdriver for removal of the slide plate on the back of the slide. I'm
no armorer. I watched the video below and follwed the directions and it was easy. Just keep your thumb over the back of the slide when you remove the cover so parts don't go flying out:). Watch video.......................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JJ69X7Ttdo
Looks easy enough. What the hell, I'll order the part and give it a shot. Just my contribution to the experiment!
Well, came across a Gen 3 19 today and pulled the trigger because I'm very impatient...
Test fire date: 07/07/11
Serial #: RTX
336 ejector
Dipped extractor
Only had a box of Fiocchi 115 grn FMJ on hand. Out of 50 rnds I had:
1 stovepipe, 3rd round fired
2 hits to right shoulder
1 left ejection
1 forward ejection
Everything else ejected at 3:00 to 4:00, without much force though. I have a bunch of Speer Gold Dot +P at home that I will run through it before I install the .40 extractor that I just ordered, see what results I have. If the extractor doesn't improve performance I may get ahold of Glock for a 30724 ejector.
Good to hear that my .40 cal extractor experiment is working for everyone!
I'm currently at 1100 rounds with the .40 caliber extractor, survived through a outdoor defensive handgun course and an IDPA match with no erratic ejections.
At the end of the day, this proves that the Glock problem is the extractor itself.
my g26 hit me in the face with brass at least once a 17rnd mag for about 200 rounds of wwb. .40 cal extractor en route.
Did you use the LCI .40 extractor? I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier in the thread. That's the one that I just ordered from Glockmeister.
Did you use the LCI .40 extractor? I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier in the thread. That's the one that I just ordered from Glockmeister.
Yeah, i used the stock LCI .40 cal extractor
You will also notice that the .40 extractor doesnt have the defective "dip" that you see on the 9mm version.
Okay, hopefully I will have the same results. We'll see if the ejector makes a difference in my case. I'll post my results after I install the new extractor, I should have it by the middle of the week.
brushy bill
01-29-12, 10:40
So, would it be best to wait for the LWD 9mm extractor to come off back order (been months now) or go with the OEM .40 extractor? If the latter, would it function with the 9mm Whitesound assembly?
FWIW, the LWD 9mm extractor made mine worse. I just received the new ejector and a new OEM extractor. Waiting to install and see if this remedies it.
I highly recommend just requesting an exchange for the new Gen 4's, for those of you still having issues. I couldn't be happier that I went that route, my Gen 4 with all updated internals runs flawlessly.
So, would it be best to wait for the LWD 9mm extractor to come off back order (been months now) or go with the OEM .40 extractor? If the latter, would it function with the 9mm Whitesound assembly?
FWIW, the LWD 9mm extractor made mine worse. I just received the new ejector and a new OEM extractor. Waiting to install and see if this remedies it.
from arfcom:
You will very likely find that the LWD 9mm extractor will make your ejection worse than it is now. When LoneWolf first started selling their extractors, many 9mm Glock owners had success fixing their ejection with LWD extractors. Well there's a good reason for that, LoneWolf had their extractors mixed up. People who ordered 9mm extractors actually received .40 extractors and vice versa. So the 9mm Glock owners who had erratic ejection which was fixed by LWD extractors were actually using .40 extractors. Since then, LoneWolf has corrected this mix-up and everyone who's tried an actual 9mm LWD extractor in their 9mm Glock has seen the ejection become worse.
LWD-brand extractors marked "3" are for 9mm. Extractors marked "4" are for .40.
The erratic ejection problem is caused because the extractor is not firmly holding the rim of the spent casing to the breech face, allowing the casing to drop lower in the gun before the ejector hits it. The case mouth of the spent casing then impacts the slide just below the ejection port opening and the casing loses most of its energy at that point. The .40 extractors have a thicker claw and therefore leave less of a gap between the breech face and claw of the extractor. The .40 extractors also have a 5 degree tilt to the claw which raises the case mouth of the spent casing before it starts pivoting right.
You could try a .40 extractor in your 9mm Glock, many people have put Glock-made .40 extractors in their 9mm Glocks and it fixed their ejection problems.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1369607&page=8
Psalms144.1
01-29-12, 13:28
I highly recommend just requesting an exchange for the new Gen 4's, for those of you still having issues. I couldn't be happier that I went that route, my Gen 4 with all updated internals runs flawlessly.
And the replacement Gen4 G19 they sent me last month was a COMPLETE dog - multiple failures, completely erratic ejection, etc. Ditto the two recent production 3rd Gen G19s they pulled to replace it - neither would go 200 rounds with NATO ball without failures or erratic ejection.
This issue is FAR from resolved, despite what Glock would like us to believe. I've had senior warranty and technical support folks at Glock tell me they have no idea why some of their 9mms work and others don't. All they're doing at this point is swapping parts and hoping that will fix the problem, if it doesn't, they start over with a new pistol.
If you got a good one, hold onto it like gold, and let us know how it's still running when you get a couple thousand rounds through it. My 3rd Gen didn't start acting up until about the 3K mark, at which point it went from a sewing machine to a reliability and extraction/ejection nightmare.
Regards,
Kevin
brushy bill
01-29-12, 17:14
Thanks Cosmo...so .40 LWD or .40 OEM extractor?
Just went outside and fired a handful of Speer Gold Dot +P that I had laying around and it seemed to eject fine, compared to the junk Fiocchi I tried yesterday. I'll update after the .40 OEM extractor comes in.
I also have 1k of Winchester Q4318 on the way...I'll pick up some WWB to test as well...
TacMedic556
01-29-12, 19:19
Girl getting pegged in face by brass with Glock Gen 3 19. Watch at around the 3 second mark, she takes one to the forehead. She then gets a few close ones breeze by.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzmC6Wxu1tM
Thanks Cosmo...so .40 LWD or .40 OEM extractor?
either of them should work fine.
Since LWD didn't have any of their .40 extractors in stock, i just ordered the stock OEM .40 extractor
Psalms144.1
01-29-12, 21:56
Girl getting pegged in face by brass with Glock Gen 3 19. Watch at around the 3 second mark, she takes one to the forehead. She then gets a few close ones breeze by.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzmC6Wxu1tM
Looked like, out of 10 shots, it was 2 ejecting properly, three to the face, one 6 o'clock high, one to the left, one to 12 o'clock, and two dribbling out of the ejection port to the 4 o'clock.
About what we experienced with my last Gen4.
Glock shipped me a brand new 3rd Gen G19 last week; but I'm traveling until next Tue, so I won't get a chance to wring it out for another 10 days or so. I'll let y'all know how this one works.
Regards,
Kevin
I wanted to share my small experiance and ask a question that I did not see covered in this thread.
I recently purchased a Gen 3 Glock 17 RTF2 used from a private party, the person I purchased the gun from said he had fired it less then 100 times and did not change any parts(I specifically asked about the extractor because of the issues outlined in this thread). It was test fired 07/2009.
I took it out for the first time a few days ago and while it did not have a stoppage it did throw brass all over the place including into my face. I shot a total of 400 rounds. 200 wally world federal, 100 WWB, and 100 Winchester 147gr JHP RA9B. Ejection seemed normalized with the RA9B.
Today I took out the extractor to try and see if I possibly got the newer one, to my suprise I think it is the Lone Wolff 9mm model as it has the number 3 on the round spot that meets the plunger like described of the LWD product. My question is do the old or new OEM glock extractors have the same number system as LWD? I'm trying to determine what in fact I have before I start trying to remedy.
It's my understanding from this thread that being a 2009 production year gun it should have came with the old extractor, any insight is much appreciated.
Would be good to have this ^ clarified
I wanted to share my small experiance and ask a question that I did not see covered in this thread.
I recently purchased a Gen 3 Glock 17 RTF2 used from a private party, the person I purchased the gun from said he had fired it less then 100 times and did not change any parts(I specifically asked about the extractor because of the issues outlined in this thread). It was test fired 07/2009.
I took it out for the first time a few days ago and while it did not have a stoppage it did throw brass all over the place including into my face. I shot a total of 400 rounds. 200 wally world federal, 100 WWB, and 100 Winchester 147gr JHP RA9B. Ejection seemed normalized with the RA9B.
Today I took out the extractor to try and see if I possibly got the newer one, to my suprise I think it is the Lone Wolff 9mm model as it has the number 3 on the round spot that meets the plunger like described of the LWD product. My question is do the old or new OEM glock extractors have the same number system as LWD? I'm trying to determine what in fact I have before I start trying to remedy.
It's my understanding from this thread that being a 2009 production year gun it should have came with the old extractor, any insight is much appreciated.
Would be good to have this ^ clarified
Are you sure that it's a LWD extractor? You don't seem sure.
LWD extractors follow the same mold stamp procedure as the new Glock MIM extractors.
Older (or good) Gen 3 extractors are stamped on the side of the extractor itself. In this case, you do not have the "good" or old extractor.
My experience is I bought my Glock 19 Gen4 new in Feb '11. After about 2000rnds it stopped having issues. Up until then I was having FTF, FTE problems. When rounds were ejecting I would catch them in the face/shirt. I even had brass get between my glasses and eye. Not fun. It hasn't happened lately however. Upgrades are: glock recall rsa replacement, ghost 3.5 connector, wolfe extra power spring.
Are you sure that it's a LWD extractor? You don't seem sure.
LWD extractors follow the same mold stamp procedure as the new Glock MIM extractors.
Older (or good) Gen 3 extractors are stamped on the side of the extractor itself. In this case, you do not have the "good" or old extractor.
So its not trivial to discern an lw extractor from a stock mim glock extractor? Might end up being good for those who want to take their duty weapon reliability into their own hands.
Are you sure that it's a LWD extractor? You don't seem sure.
LWD extractors follow the same mold stamp procedure as the new Glock MIM extractors.
Older (or good) Gen 3 extractors are stamped on the side of the extractor itself. In this case, you do not have the "good" or old extractor.
Bummer. I am not sure. I thought it was the LWD because I didn't see a dip as reported in the new MIM extractors. But now knowing that it's either that or the new MIM I'm pretty sure it's the new MIM as the reason stated for selling me the gun was he replaced it with a Gen 4 19. That was what initially raised the red flag and got me asking questions about if the gun was all origanal. Also it didn't look very well finished as the LWD part has been reported to be.
Disappointing for sure, I paid a premium for what I thought would be a trouble free gun to find out that I got the one part I was trying to avoid. Thanks for the clarification on which parts are which.
I'm not sure if I should try the LWD 9mm extractor or the OEM .40 now? Are the OEM .40's a cure for the Gen 3 guns with the 336 ejector or are those only working on the Gen 4 guns with new model ejectors? Should I just shoot hotter ammo for awhile and see how it goes? So frustrating. I suppose I'll continue to whatch this thread until more concrete evidence of possible cures comes out and continue to shoot with a mask on in the meantime :D
A related question
I read somewhere that people have used .40 ejectors in 9mm at least for the 9mm conversions that a lot of g22 owners do. Is this true? Is it pretty trouble free?
Bummer. I am not sure. I thought it was the LWD because I didn't see a dip as reported in the new MIM extractors. But now knowing that it's either that or the new MIM I'm pretty sure it's the new MIM as the reason stated for selling me the gun was he replaced it with a Gen 4 19. That was what initially raised the red flag and got me asking questions about if the gun was all origanal. Also it didn't look very well finished as the LWD part has been reported to be.
Disappointing for sure, I paid a premium for what I thought would be a trouble free gun to find out that I got the one part I was trying to avoid. Thanks for the clarification on which parts are which.
I'm not sure if I should try the LWD 9mm extractor or the OEM .40 now? Are the OEM .40's a cure for the Gen 3 guns with the 336 ejector or are those only working on the Gen 4 guns with new model ejectors? Should I just shoot hotter ammo for awhile and see how it goes? So frustrating. I suppose I'll continue to whatch this thread until more concrete evidence of possible cures comes out and continue to shoot with a mask on in the meantime :D
It *seems* from reading more than a few of these threads that those with Gen 3 G19's with the 336 ejector that run well (meaning no malfunctions) but exhibit erratic ejections (although not to the point of brass to the face) have found that the .40 extractor (either LW or OEM) that their ejection has become more consistent at the 3-4 oclock. My G19 fits into this category, I just received my .40 extractor today and installed it into the slide. Plan on testing it out this week.
It *seems* from reading more than a few of these threads that those with Gen 3 G19's with the 336 ejector that run well (meaning no malfunctions) but exhibit erratic ejections (although not to the point of brass to the face) have found that the .40 extractor (either LW or OEM) that their ejection has become more consistent at the 3-4 oclock. My G19 fits into this category, I just received my .40 extractor today and installed it into the slide. Plan on testing it out this week.
Thanks, I have read so much on the subject in the past day or two I'm having a hard time keeping it straight. I look forward to hearing how your gun runs with the .40 extractor installed.
Gary1911A1
01-31-12, 01:07
It *seems* from reading more than a few of these threads that those with Gen 3 G19's with the 336 ejector that run well (meaning no malfunctions) but exhibit erratic ejections (although not to the point of brass to the face) have found that the .40 extractor (either LW or OEM) that their ejection has become more consistent at the 3-4 oclock. My G19 fits into this category, I just received my .40 extractor today and installed it into the slide. Plan on testing it out this week.
I'm looking forward to your report too.
Here are the part combinations that the "internet" and myself have tested:
Combo 1
RSA: 0-3
Ejector: 336
Extractor: OEM 9MM "Dip"
Symptom: Erratic ejections after a few thousand rounds after breaking in the new gun. Stovepipes soon after
Combo 2
RSA: 0-4
Ejector: 336
Extractor: OEM 9MM "Dip"
Symptom: Erratic ejections, stovepipes
Combo 3
RSA: 0-4-3
Ejector: 336
Extractor: OEM 9MM "Dip"
Symptom: Erratic ejections, stovepipes
Combo 4
RSA: 0-4-3
Ejector: 336
Extractor: OEM 9MM "Dip" (polished)
Symptom: Erratic ejections, stovepipes
Combo 5
RSA: 0-4-3
Ejector: 30274
Extractor: OEM 9MM "Dip" (polished)
Symptom: better ejections, but still erratic
Combo 6
RSA: 0-4-3
Ejector: 30274
Extractor: OEM .40
Symptom: Fixed. Tested with over 1100 rounds of Wolf and Sellier & Bellot 115gr.
Has anyone had success with filling their 336 ejector?
I did it myself (filed back, changed angle) after having given up hope on having a working gun. Unfortunately on the last range trip I only had a chance to fire 107 rounds, but every round fired 3/4-o'clock to the right. I even was playing with limp wresting. Plan to get a lot more time in before I claim success though.
platoonDaddy
01-31-12, 12:52
As previously stated my Gen 4 G17 returned from the factory for the 2nd time and still ejection issues (not many, but still occurring).
Installed the 40 extractor and 200 rounds downrange today, had a few that ended up at 8 oclock, the VAST majority 3-4.
An 8 o clock ejection means the casing hit the ejection port wall right?
platoonDaddy
01-31-12, 15:01
An 8 o clock ejection means the casing hit the ejection port wall right?
That is what I believe, can't imagine any other way.
I will be shooting 200 rounds tomorrow (all that time allows). 100 of WWB and 100 of Remington UMC Yellow box. I decided to break out the calipers and measure the case rim thickness. The WWB comes in right at .90mm which i believe is exactly what the cartridge calls for, the UMC seems to measure in the 1.05-1.07mm range, this was just a random sample of a few rounds out of each box. We'll see if this makes any difference with extraction tomorrow with the new .40 oem extractor.
just installed my .40 cal extractor in my g26. going to put some rounds through this week.
I bought a gen 4 glock 19 Saturday, finally got around to putting rounds through it this afternoon.
Good news, this is my first glock, and I shoot it well. That's a big plus for me quite obviously
Fed 15 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 115gr jhp perfectly, but with erratic ejection
Bad news, in 150 rounds I experience extremely erratic ejection (over my head, 1 o'clock to 6 o'clock and everywhere in between, hit me in the left eye (eyepro saves eyes!) and landed on my right shoulder often)
Also experienced 8 FTE stovepipes and the case stuck between the barrel shroud and slide horizontally.
That is not acceptable whatsoever for me. I'm going to put another 150 through hopefully this week. If no improvement's are seen I'll be contacting Glock.
Disclaimer: I did clean and lube this pistol before firing
FMJ ammo used was remington umc 115 grain (not the best, I know)
All failures were with fmj rounds
Has anyone had success with filling their 336 ejector?
Did you file it down to the same profile as the new ejector I'm guessing?
Bad news, in 150 rounds I experience extremely erratic ejection (over my head, 1 o'clock to 6 o'clock and everywhere in between, hit me in the left eye (eyepro saves eyes!) and landed on my right shoulder often)
Try the OEM Glock LCI .40 extractor from Glockmeister, seems to be working well for people. I'm waiting on mine right now, I hope to have it by the end of the week.
My sister shot her Gen 4 19 recently.
Her specs:
RSA: 0-4-3
Ejector: 30274
Extractor: 9mm dip
A handful of rounds nailed her head a few times (10-20 within 200 rounds). She's an experienced shooter as well and I was watching her wrist (no limp wristing).
[/QUOTE]
Try the OEM Glock LCI .40 extractor from Glockmeister, seems to be working well for people. I'm waiting on mine right now, I hope to have it by the end of the week.[/QUOTE]
Is there not a cheaper (ie free) fix. This is a brand new pistol, I have a hard time spending money on a new pistol, until I've gotten comfortable enough to know what will make me better with it.
As previously stated my Gen 4 G17 returned from the factory for the 2nd time and still ejection issues (not many, but still occurring).
Installed the 40 extractor and 200 rounds downrange today, had a few that ended up at 8 oclock, the VAST majority 3-4.
can you tell us your parts combo?
Try the OEM Glock LCI .40 extractor from Glockmeister, seems to be working well for people. I'm waiting on mine right now, I hope to have it by the end of the week.[/QUOTE]
Is there not a cheaper (ie free) fix. This is a brand new pistol, I have a hard time spending money on a new pistol, until I've gotten comfortable enough to know what will make me better with it.[/QUOTE]
You can send it to Glock, wait a few weeks, and receive it back with the new upgraded parts (RSA and Ejector), but if you still have the 9MM extractor with the "dip", it's only a matter of time before it will have issues again. I've experienced this with both of my Gen 4 G19s.
So you have a couple of options:
1.) Send it to Glock and wait a few weeks, but possibly not permanently fix the issue.
2.) Buy a .40 cal extractor for $20
3.) Wait for Randy from APEX to release their new extractor
I just learned I received a .40 Lone Wolf Dist. extractor in place of the 9mm I ordered back in Sept. '11....
Prior to a trip to Smyrna, I ran the LWD .40 extractor for several thousand rounds and it greatly improved my ejection / extraction.
I just learned I received a .40 Lone Wolf Dist. extractor in place of the 9mm I ordered back in Sept. '11....
Prior to a trip to Smyrna, I ran the LWD .40 extractor for several thousand rounds and it greatly improved my ejection / extraction.
how did you find this out?
how did you find this out?
I was told on another forum that they LWD extractors are numbered: "4" for .40, "3" for 9mm.
Mine is marked with a 4.
platoonDaddy
02-01-12, 04:16
can you tell us your parts combo?
Ejector - 30274
RSA - 0-2-4
Extractor - Lone Wolf GLO-1899 LCI 40/357 (this extractor doesn't have any number stamped on it)
platoonDaddy
02-01-12, 04:18
My sister shot her Gen 4 19 recently.
Her specs:
RSA: 0-4-3
Ejector: 30274
Extractor: 336
A handful of rounds nailed her head a few times (10-20 within 200 rounds). She's an experienced shooter as well and I was watching her wrist (no limp wristing).
Didn't know the extractor was labeled 336, thought just the ejector.
Didn't know the extractor was labeled 336, thought just the ejector.
Yeah, that was a mix up :o
New extractor arrived today , Glockmeister had it shipped out fast!
For anyone that doesn't have experience breaking down a Glock slide, installation was cave man simple. Just make sure you keep your thumb over the rear when you slide the plate off! I had it installed in about 2 minutes.
I should be able able to hit the range on Saturday and give an update with my results. You can definitely see the difference in the claw that grabs the case rim when comparing the two extractors, and its throwing the snap caps out of it consistently and assertively.
New extractor arrived today , Glockmeister had it shipped out fast!
For anyone that doesn't have experience breaking down a Glock slide, installation was cave man simple. Just make sure you keep your thumb over the rear when you slide the plate off! I had it installed in about 2 minutes.
I should be able able to hit the range on Saturday and give an update with my results. You can definitely see the difference in the claw that grabs the case rim when comparing the two extractors, and its throwing the snap caps out of it consistently and assertively.
you can tell that the .40 extractor does not have a "dip" either.
let us know.
I bought a gen 4 glock 19 Saturday, finally got around to putting rounds through it this afternoon.
Good news, this is my first glock, and I shoot it well. That's a big plus for me quite obviously
Fed 15 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 115gr jhp perfectly, but with erratic ejection
Bad news, in 150 rounds I experience extremely erratic ejection (over my head, 1 o'clock to 6 o'clock and everywhere in between, hit me in the left eye (eyepro saves eyes!) and landed on my right shoulder often)
Also experienced 8 FTE stovepipes and the case stuck between the barrel shroud and slide horizontally.
That is not acceptable whatsoever for me. I'm going to put another 150 through hopefully this week. If no improvement's are seen I'll be contacting Glock.
Disclaimer: I did clean and lube this pistol before firing
FMJ ammo used was remington umc 115 grain (not the best, I know)
All failures were with fmj rounds
To clarify and add
Gen 4 G19 336 ejector and 034 RSA everything stock
shot it today 65 rounds of UMC 115 gr fmj 1 stovepipe in first mag, good after that.
50 rounds of Federal 115 gr fmj no failures.
I don't know if it's growing pains or the UMC or if I got a bad one. Time will tell for me, I'm going to keep changing ammo and shooting it.
It would be much appreciated if everybody would post the Gen, model of extractor, model of ejector and type of ammo used in every test post. It will save alot of questions and help people following the thread keep it all straight. Seems most are doing this already but in trying to sift through all the data I'm finding alot of posts where Gen was not mentioned, or none of the above was mentioned at all, only the symptoms they experianced. Thanks to everybody that's contributing to this thread.
Got a Gen 4 G19 over the holidays. Put 250 rounds through it. The first 150 where erratic, lots of casings ejecting at 6, no casings ejecting what I would term normal (positive 3-4). The last 100 rounds, I horizontal stovepiped 1 in every 10 rounds. Let someone else shoot it, same problem. All ammo fired was Remington UMC 115 gr fmj.
Specs: Gen4 19 - 336 ejector - dipped extractor - 0-2-4 spring - LE model with 9/14/11 test fire date.
Sent it back to Glock, came back with new 30274 ejector, and 0-4-3 spring. The extractor is still dipped, don't know if that was changed as well.
I'll fire it this weekend sometime and post results.
Heavy Metal
02-01-12, 22:19
Glock is really holding on to those new MIM Extractors and seems to be doing everything they can to avoid dumping the molds and going back to the older cast design.
They must have sunk a pretty penny into the molds or something.
So are the new Gen 3's GTG as long as they have a proper Ejector and Extractor? Or is there something deeper wrong?
What about an old (pre-2010) Gen 3s? If I had to buy a new extractor/ejector I'd be in trouble?
So are the new Gen 3's GTG as long as they have a proper Ejector and Extractor? Or is there something deeper wrong?
What about an old (pre-2010) Gen 3s? If I had to buy a new extractor/ejector I'd be in trouble?
I have a pre 2010 Glock 17 that the original owner put a new dipped extractor in, I have only put 400 rounds through it but with weak range ammo (WWB, and Federal from wally world) it was ejecting at my face, at my feet, all over the place. 100 of the rounds was high quality defensive ammo and that seemed to eject properly. It has the old style 336 ejector.
davebee456
02-01-12, 23:16
both my N Serial number 19 born late 2009 had dipped extractor and my P Serial Number 19 born on 02/2010....
Strange! both have that grey barrel,
Maybe its the grey barrel lol.
davebee456
02-01-12, 23:30
Does someone on here know the "real" deal about how Glock messed up later model gen 3 G19's and the gen 4 G19's??
there has been rumors on the internet but no real excuse,
New Recoil springs for the Gen 4's, New Ejectors for both gen 3 an 4's now extractors are being questioned,
and 50% of the time glock blames "limp wristing"..
I was hoping someone here knows something.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.