View Full Version : Glock Accuracy Survey: Let's Put Numbers On It
How big are your 5- and 10-shot groups at 25 yards OFF OF SANDBAGS with a G19 or G17 that has OEM internals (not race-gun stuff) and iron sights? How about at 50 yards?
What about at 25 and 50 with an RDS and OEM internals?
What ammo are you using?
Thanks,
Okie John
never shot groups at 25 but its one hole at 5yds and about 85% hits on 8" steel at 50
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz140/raizo_sekai/34bd0821.jpg
ammo is WPA 115 gr
F-Trooper05
11-06-11, 18:14
A few weeks ago I saw Jason Falla shoot a similar group as the one pictured above from about 10 yards standing with a G17. To quote Rooster Cogburn: "I have no doubt that the gun is sound."
Accurate enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oD3lxZ2GAo
Accurate enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oD3lxZ2GAo
Nice shooting, Surf.
I noticed that you missed your eighth shot on the 50-yard popper and your first and sixth shots on the 70-yard popper. I want to eliminate misses like that in my shooting, so I'm trying to establish a baseline. That's why I ask about group sizes at 25 and 50 yards.
Do you have that kind of data?
Thanks,
Okie John
Nice shooting, Surf.
I noticed that you missed your eighth shot on the 50-yard popper and your first and sixth shots on the 70-yard popper. I want to eliminate misses like that in my shooting, so I'm trying to establish a baseline. That's why I ask about group sizes at 25 and 50 yards. In other words on any given day for the shooting that I was doing, the Glock was not at fault, I was. If you can perform better as a shooter, the Glock will be up to the challenge.
Do you have that kind of data?
Thanks,
Okie JohnYou want to eliminate misses on any given day, shooting at the pace I was shooting, offhand, from 70 yards on 10" steel? Some days I can't miss at those drills, other days I have misses. The Glock is very accurate, probably more accurate than most shooters would be able to perform at similar distances, at a similar pace, offhand, on any given day. If you want to me sand bag the weapon from 70 yards on 10" steel then you probably won't see any misses every day. So yes IMO the Glock is accurate enough to suit what needs you are searching for. But I am not sure what you are expecting from the weapon? If you are talking rested, it is very accurate. If you are talking offhand, then the shooter error is the issue and not the weapon. So it would be you that needs the practice. If you want pure bullseye accuracy then a Glock is not what you need.
Long Tom Coffin
11-07-11, 00:33
How big are your 5- and 10-shot groups at 25 yards OFF OF SANDBAGS with a G19 or G17 that has OEM internals (not race-gun stuff) and iron sights? How about at 50 yards?
What about at 25 and 50 with an RDS and OEM internals?
What ammo are you using?
Thanks,
Okie John
5 shot group for me at a sandbag rest is a hair over 4.5" at 25 yards. I tried it at 50 (once) but was so disgusted I didn't measure. Suffice to say, it was way larger than 4". I was using stock internals (at that point), and meps. Me giving it up at 50 yards is nothing more than me needing to work more on my trigger control. My Gen 4's and Gen 3 are far more accurate than I am capable of being at this point.
Long Tom Coffin
11-07-11, 00:35
If you want pure bullseye accuracy then a Glock is not what you need.
Glock is perfectly accurate for what it was designed for, as a combat/military pistol.
Glock is perfectly accurate for what it was designed for, as a combat/military pistol.No arguments here. But I still don't know what the OP is wanting from the weapon.
Last week at our range I repeatedly hit my MGM mini auto popper at 50 yards with my G19 (10-8 sights, stock trigger) and blazer ammo.
It's not as "nice" as my NH, YoBo, SVI, or other custom 1911s, but it's plenty accurate.
Nephrology
11-07-11, 06:03
I don't see what good "data" will do you here. We're not going to run a T-Test or anything.....
Glocks are capable weapons.
Their shooters and cheap factory ammo at 50 yards, however.....
3-4 inches at 25 offhand two hand hold. at 50 good to do 8-10 inches offhand. glocks are very good close range guns but unlike 1911's or smith revolvers they open up when you stretch the range. Just shot a match a couple days ago out to 25 yards using b27 target doing position shooting with tight time requirements (draw and fire 6 rounds in ten seconds) my composite group for four draw and fires (24 rounds total) went 5 inches with a couple fliers out into the 8 ring. At closer distances (other strings of fire at 15 10 and 7 yards) all but 3 inside 10 and x ring.
My G17 seems to like the 124gr+P Gold Dot. I haven't rested it in a while but offhand it will put 5 shots into 2.5" @25yards. 50yds offhand not leaning on anything it will keep all the rounds in the down 0 part of an IDPA target. This isn't fast shooting, maybe 1 shot per minute with a 10 second trigger squeeze.
NorthDakota
11-07-11, 09:09
I have personally witnessed "DJ Niner", moderator on GlockTalk, hit a 12 oz pop can at 100 yds on 3 occassions and a clay pigeon on 1 occassion.
In all 4 instances it was his first shot, standing, unsupported using Weaver stance.
He was using a Glock 17 with grip chopped to Glock 19 length on 3 occassions and a Glock 32 on another.
I wouldn't have believed it if I had not witnessed it. The guy is realy dialed in on the Glock trigger.
Glocks are more accurate than most would think.
He also shot in an open class local steel match and took his G34 out to 200, beating guys with their .44 mag wheelies and taking 1st IIRC.
I can't shoot that well but after seeing it done repeatedly at 100, I was sold on Glock, and have a benchmark to aspire to.
His sights were stock on the Glock "1917" and G32. On his G34, he has adj mepro's IIRC.
Until 15 yards, I don't think slow fire groups tell us anything about the gun. I had a 1911 that would put 20 yards into one ragged 1.5" hole at 7 yards that barely stayed minute of soccer ball at 25 yards from a rest.
My Gen 4 G17 has printed 147 grain Rangers - 5 shots in 1.5" at 25 yards from rested. My avatar is a picture of that gun and group.
Premium ammo is pretty important these days to know anything about the gun as econ training fmj ranges from tolerable to awful in consistency.
TacMedic556
11-07-11, 09:32
I was at our SWAT range last week doing some shooting for fun.
GLOCK 17 - We had 3 12x24 inch steel plates hanging and painted white. At 50 meters, I emptied 2 magazines with slow controlled fire (shot every 3 sec.) and missed a total of twice (totally threw those and knew it). This 17 is stock. Sights are Trijicon NS put on by Glock.
21sf- 10 yards 3-4" group standing shooting paper police targets. stock gun.
26- This is the sick part. My wife never shoots (I know she should). I was teaching her some basics on my 26. At 10 yards she started picking out the letters on the police target. You know the "D" and "E" etc. that are in different target zones? She starts drilling holes in them! The 26 is insane. I love mine. All stock, even sights and its as accurate as I can shoot.
19- I love the way this gun feels. This guns holds nice and shoots beautiful. I talked my dad into one. He never owned or shot a Glock before. We were at range last week with his new Gen 3 19 (with dipped extractor). We had a plate rack with 6" circle plates 6 of them in a line. After he grouped on paper and did awesome, he challenged my friend who is back on leave from Afghanistan (works for G4S). My dad, a gunsite graduate from back in the Orange days of Cooper circa 1991 and my buddy stood on the 10 yard line and I called the draw. Each shooter had to drop 3 plates, whoever dropped theirs first won. We did 4 or 5 of these. My dad won him each time, dropping his plates in rapid succession. My friend from the Stan, carries and is really good with his 19. This is probably a testament to the shooter rather than the gun, however it shows how a new shooter on a 19 did very well.
Every one of these pistols will out shoot any human platform. Put them in a vice and these guns will make rat holes at 10-15 or even 25 yards. Watch the Hickok45 accuracy video on youtube. that man can shoot. Any variance in accuracy will more than likely be us as the problem. Hope something here helped, sorry for the long ramble it is morning here in Montana, cold outside and my coffee kicked in.:smile:
jmlshooter
11-07-11, 10:09
Yeah, I guess my question would be "What is the purpose of the inquiry?"
Data on mechanical accuracy at 25 yards seems a pretty arbitrary way to evaluate a handgun. And yet, they do it all the time in gun magazines. I think every gun magazine I've ever read has every Glock as a 2.5" gun. I guess I'll take their word for it?
My Browning Hi-Power Practical yields amazing (for me) groups at 25 yards offhand. Better than my Gold Cup, and I have gotten Coke can hits off a bag at 100 yards with the Gold Cup.
Of course, that data doesn't tell you that the BHP turns your hand into hamburger or that the Gold Cup has typical 1911 feedway stoppages about 100 rounds into your range trip.
I carry the Glock because it does the things that I might have to do with it.
Thanks to everyone who answered. I’m looking for a rule of thumb on Glock accuracy. I know that all firearms are more accurate than we can hold them, yadda, yadda, yadda, but I’m curious how Glocks with stock internals TEND TO SHOOT in the hands of squared-away shooters like Surf and most other posters here after we remove speed from the equation. And although I know I'm talking about a trend, I'd like to be able to put numbers on it.
Here are some examples:
1. Revolver shooters say that from a rest, an iron-sighted Smith with good ammo should shoot into 1” per 10 yards of range (2.5" at 25 yards, 5" at 50, etc.).
2. Bolt-action shooters say that a properly built hunting rifle with good ammo and good optics should deliver 1-1.25 MOA.
3. High-power shooters feel that 55 grains of IMR 4350 and a good 180 grain bullet will bring out the best in any 30/06.
4. LAV says that the best shooters only shoot about half of a given gun’s accuracy potential, so if a pistol can regularly shoot ten rounds into 2.5” at 25 yards from a rest, they’ll shoot 10 rounds into about 5” under the same conditions.
As everyone has noted here, we look at the shooter first when performance falls outside that range, but these rules of thumb establish the range, and I'd like to find one for Glock accuracy.
Again, thanks to all who answered, and especially to Surf for the videos.
Okie John
Standing, not supported, both my stock 19 and 17 can keep them in the 10 ring no problem. I occasionally flub one, but I shot about 30 rounds yesterday, all in the 10 ring from 25 yards.
The 10 ring is ~4" in diameter. I never sandbagged my pistol, so who knows if it'll go down to 2.5" or so. I've done 3" before with them in good lighting, but I know in my hands anything over 3-4" is always me and not the gun.
Standing, not supported, both my stock 19 and 17 can keep them in the 10 ring no problem. I occasionally flub one, but I shot about 30 rounds yesterday, all in the 10 ring from 25 yards.
The 10 ring is ~4" in diameter. I never sandbagged my pistol, so who knows if it'll go down to 2.5" or so. I've done 3" before with them in good lighting, but I know in my hands anything over 3-4" is always me and not the gun.
Perfect. Thanks.
Okie John
With a stock G17, iron sights, and factory ammo that the gun likes, I would say about 2"-3" at 25 yards. With factory ammo that the gun does not like, that group will be about double that.
I found my best groups are not when using a sandbag, but when leaning up against something and having my upper arm (between my elbow and shoulder) be what leans against that something.
Joe Mamma
Last week, my best 5 shot group with my Gen II, G17, was just over 1.5", at 20 yards with Win 124 FMJ. That gun has somewhere between 10-20K rounds through it. And blown up once with a bad reload...And I managed to win 3 GSSF matches with that old gun.
Since I dont shoot off sandbags or rest, my groups are totally dependant on ME, shooting freehand, standing. And I'm typically mediocre with brief fleeting moments of brilliance...
Glocks always impress me and shoot way better than they should.
Alaskapopo
11-10-11, 01:10
How big are your 5- and 10-shot groups at 25 yards OFF OF SANDBAGS with a G19 or G17 that has OEM internals (not race-gun stuff) and iron sights? How about at 50 yards?
What about at 25 and 50 with an RDS and OEM internals?
What ammo are you using?
Thanks,
Okie John
About 3 inches at 25 yards off hand is the best I can do with my Glock 17 and my reloads.
Pat
This is typical 2 hand slow or timed fire for my RDS equipped Glocks at 25 yds:
http://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181&d=1318024995
At 50 yds, the rounds typically are all within the 7 ring on the NRA B8.
With the Defoor pistol test #3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wugfoKJ0-fA&feature=related, the shooter starts at the target and runs out to 50 yds where 2 shots are fired into the A-zone, distance is then closed to 25 yds and another 2 shots are fired into the A-zone. Shooter runs to 12 yards and makes 2 head shots, then runs to 6 yds and makes and additional 2 head shots. To pass, the entire test must be completed within 60 sec; the 4 body shots must score 16 or higher; all of the head shots must be in the head zone with at least 2 in the “credit card” A-zone. In running the test with an RDS equipped Glock, I typically score 18 or 20 on the 4 body shots made at 50 & 25 yds...
This is typical 2 hand slow or timed fire for my RDS equipped Glocks at 25 yds:
http://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181&d=1318024995
At 50 yds, the rounds typically are all within the 7 ring on the NRA B8.
With the Defoor pistol test #3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wugfoKJ0-fA&feature=related, the shooter starts at the target and runs out to 50 yds where 2 shots are fired into the A-zone, distance is then closed to 25 yds and another 2 shots are fired into the A-zone. Shooter runs to 12 yards and makes 2 head shots, then runs to 6 yds and makes and additional 2 head shots. To pass, the entire test must be completed within 60 sec; the 4 body shots must score 16 or higher; all of the head shots must be in the head zone with at least 2 in the “credit card” A-zone. In running the test with an RDS equipped Glock, I typically score 18 or 20 on the 4 body shots made at 50 & 25 yds...
Nice shooting--thanks for posting.
If you can't see the attachment, the 25-yard groups that DocGKR posted are well inside the 5.54-inch black bull on an NRA B8 repair center--likely in the 3-3.5" range. And for reference, the B8 repair center 7 ring is 11.00 inches in diameter.
Okie John
xjustintimex
11-10-11, 16:24
nice shooting surf! If I wanted to get into 3 gun competition would it be better for me to use a g19 or get a g17? Is the 17 actually easier to reach out further with?
OK, so with an admittedly tiny sample, here’s what I’ve learned from this thread so far:
1. You guys don’t shoot off of sandbags much.
2. Ammo matters.
3. Glocks are more accurate than I thought they were.
I'd say the capability of the current guns, on average and with good duty ammo, is about 2" for 5 rounds at 25 yards. With cheap Walmart ball they seem to average 3-4"+. Each gun is an individual but I'd say this represents a fair trend.
This is probably the rule of thumb I was seeking, but it raises another question.
M4Carbine shooters are a cut above most shooters. We know that practical accuracy is a function of gun, sights, shooter, and ammo, so we insist on solid pistols, we search high and low for the right sights, and we train hard. But when the talk turns to training ammo, we focus on cost—the same logic that leads a lot of newbies to buy Hi Points. The attitude seems to be that accuracy doesn’t matter when you’re hammering an 8” steel disc at 10m.
Or does it?
We all know that speed and distance degrade practical accuracy. But if better ammo can cut groups in half as Mr. Pennington and others suggest, then wouldn’t that translate into the same practical accuracy while shooting faster or at longer range? And wouldn’t that give us room to become better shooters?
Take Surf for example. His run on 70m poppers was impressive, but he missed a few shots. What if he had trained all year with ammo that’s twice as accurate? Could he have hit the 70m popper more times? Or gotten as many hits in less time? Or gotten as many hits at 140m as he did at 70m while shooting just as fast?
Hmmmm...
So what makes ammo accurate? Reloaders find that most heavier bullets outshoot most lighter bullets. When I load one of my Glocks to shoot for meat or money, I use 147-grain ammo--every 147-grain load I've tried in them has outshot every 124-grain load I've ever tried, and both of those just plain embarrass 115-grain loads.
Hmmmm again...
Okie John
I have tested a bunch of different reloaded ammo thru my mostly stock G34 off the bench. Best results have been with 147 gr bullets. The best loads group about 2" to 2.5" for me at 20 yards. I was finally able to break 2" with one load using AutoComp with a 147 Zero FMJ. As a point of comparison, my M&P 9L shoots 6 or 7 of the same loads into 1.5" or better. Factory loaded carry ammo in the G34 also runs 2" to 3" groups.
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