View Full Version : 101 Holsters
Does anyone have experience with 101 Holsters (http://gonetraining.blogspot.com/)?
They were recommended to me as an alternative to Raven Concealment. They claim I will get my holster in a week or two.
The recommending party said "I have a 101 for my Glock-21/TLR-1 combo and a Raven Concealment for my Glock-19/TLR-1 combo. The 101 is just as good. I'd say even better because of the price and the wait time."
A black holster for a HK p2000 w/TLR-1 was $65, so I took the plunge.
Their website was a bit quirky when it came to ordering with Paypal. Mission was eventually accomplished.
I found a review here. (http://kitup.military.com/2011/09/te-gone-training-kydex-holster.html)
nobody knows
12-25-11, 12:38
Well anytime someone says x-brand holster is better then y-brand holster simply because of the price and the wait time, I'm suspect of their priorities wen it comes to hard use gear. Not saying this particular person is like this It's just an odd statement for the general demeanor of this sight. That said you never know about a new company until someone with knowledge of quality products decides to be the guinea(sp?) Pig. Anyway best of luck to you and if it is a quality product, it will be nice to be able to get a good holster for a new pistole within a week until you can get a holster from the maker of you choice.
SW-Shooter
12-25-11, 19:48
Read this https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95363 , if you still want to purchase an RCS clone more power to you.
Don't but a knock off of the real thing when the real deal is within your grasp.
Very simply, "as good as," seldom turns out to be true. RCS is a class act, and worth every penny and day of waiting.
Are issues that arise with statements like "just as good" where doing something like 20 questions could help expose issues. One can easily say a uncle mikes holster is just as good and even better than a Raven and even better because its cheaper and you can buy them in stores! of course "just as good" in this case refers to the ability to collect dust. Would like to know fully what is behind ruling something "just as good".
That being said I have no clue about this particular company. If it is not life or death and you can put the time and money in risking buying twice and put it through the paces you feel it should meet then knock yourself out and do a review afterwords to let others know more about them. The review you show seems to be smoke and mirrors to impress with nothing to do with actual products.
I own a RCS holster & mag pouch, but when I saw this thread I decided to spend a few bucks and buy a couple things from 101.
Here's what i bought:
dual mag pouch for Glock 9/40, black. (rounds backwards).
Single mag pouch for PMAG, coyote. PIGGYBACK option, with pistol rounds facing backwards, Rifle rounds facing forwards.
I had some money in my Paypal account ($50), so I figured what the hell.
I look forward to doing a review/comparison when I get them. These should be a nice complement to the carriers I currently have, and for $15.95 out of pocket, I think it was worth the risk.
Merry Christmas,
Tom
Read this https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95363 , if you still want to purchase an RCS clone more power to you.
Don't but a knock off of the real thing when the real deal is within your grasp.
Are you making claim that none of their stuff has broken? I do agree though that NobodyKnows has had a bad experience with that manufacturer - from what sounds like the point of order being placed. I do agree with the post in that thread that crappy kydex gear is bad for everyone in the industry, and I'm a big proponent of a competition driven market being good for the customer (we call this Capitalism). Look at the AR market in the last 10 years and it's hard to argue against. That's excluding those kydex makers who are further pushing the envelope.
Very simply, "as good as," seldom turns out to be true. RCS is a class act, and worth every penny and day of waiting.
Very true. Reputations are hard earned. The more I work in the material, the more I see the line between experienced and amateur shops. Most people cannot spot the difference (and they shouldn't have to - I don't know the details on computers but I trust those with proven reputations).
The door swings both ways though. Most the people proclaiming their favorite brand (sponsored shooters / instructors aside) usually have no idea what to look for in good kydex. It's like anything, everyone loves their own choice. Add in higher prices and a wait - and it can magnify the "fan" effect - without even getting into endorsements.
I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that other shops are making a fine product though. Word spreads quick, so just take a minute to research. My friend and CEO of Battle Comp puts it well when talking about making kydex (I'm paraphrasing) - "if you get into it to make a quick buck, you're in for a surprise". When money is the only driving factor behind a company - expect corners to get cut.
I don't like to hear people proclaiming that the new shop popping up is better then an industry giant - because a lot of the lessons are hard earned. But I also don't like hearing something is the Holy Grail without a reason being given.
I don't think price and wait time is the only reason people choose a particular company. Speaking of my own, i know there are those who choose us based on merit.
This isn't an "X vs. Y" post. I myself am a fan of good kydex makers and not a fan of bad kydex makers turning people off from the style.
Merry Christmas.
Steve.
Really stealing ones intellectual property to make a few bucks why not right... :stop:
My great friend and CEO at Battle Comp also learned this the hard way this past year too......
Really stealing ones intellectual property to make a few bucks why not right...
From a consumer standpoint, as long as I get a better product, I could give two shits who made what first. Intellectual property rights are between lawyers and companies who should have filed for patents.
Blackhawk! was doing "high-speed" nylon designs long before almost everyone else, but nobody with any sense still uses that crap.
Blackhawk! was doing "high-speed" nylon designs long before almost everyone else, but nobody with any sense still uses that crap.
what are high speed nylon designs?
Really stealing ones intellectual property to make a few bucks why not right... :stop:
My great friend and CEO at Battle Comp also learned this the hard way this past year too......
That is true, and the topic of that has been discussed between us. Alan is also a paying customer of our gear, and has been more then helpful on several matters- of which I am EXTREMELY grateful. One of the coolest people in the industry, no doubt. I also wouldn't put words in his mouth (and will not mention him again - especially not as an argument point) if they weren't already public record (on this site) - both the statement about the kydex business and being a fan of our gear.
I think people really start picking and choosing when to play the "intellectual property" card. It applies here, but not here, but maybe here. In my mind there are two driving factors. Is the company trying to make a quick buck or trying their hand at expanding a good idea - and are they experimenting with the concept or producing an exact clone / replica.
But we all have our own opinions, which can be expressed with our wallets. I think it's fair to say we both have a dog in this fight, so we probably won't ever agree (at least publicly).
Congratulations on your successes, Steve. It's always great to see people from Michigan doing big things.
Thanks Steve,
it was a long road and a lot of years of work like anything of course
I know Alan very well and he is a friend one of few i would drop everything For, (enough said)
it sucks to have something stolen from you by others and your hard work and effort and brain material cloned copied and ripped off by 90000000000 people, and the problem not having the capital to protect it early on, but it s ok Im venting,
I have used raven gears and been a paying customer since week one it seams, I broke thee training cherry as well they as well are friends and will do the same for them as any of mine in this industry its a loyalty thing to me
Enjoy, hope to see you at class this year if not give me a shout we can meet up and do range day some time
I'm ashamed to admit that I have purchased Raven and later purchased from a-new-Kydex-shop. I purchased from the new-Kydex-shop because it had very short wait times (1 week) and lower prices. Other people on the forum - who apparently had never touched a RCS holster - also claimed it was "just as good as Raven."
I will never order from another clone manufacturer. There may in fact be some high-quality clone manufacturers, but you need to actually touch the products and compare them side-by-side to get a feeling. Photos will not do justice. In my particular case the holsters had absolutely horrible retention. The firearm holster was really tight, because the maker had no idea how to do proper lockup. RCS holsters "pop" into their retention position and "pop" out as if there is a magical gizmo that grabs the firearm and releases it at just the right amount of pressure. On the other hand, the magazine holsters were far too lose and did not actually retain the magazines. They were worthless. Additional faults were the belt loops - not only the quality of the material, but they were not properly thought out for threading thicker belts. The edges were horrible and rough. Too much Kydex was used, making it useless for draw/grip without me having to personally having to shave off large portions. The angle was obviously just "eye-balled" and not measured in any way. Essentially it was junk that someone tried to make in their garage/basement because they thought they could start a Kydex company really easily.
RCS has spent years perfecting and thinking out every aspect of holsters - retention, edges, grip, angle, ride height, and materials. They also are the largest manufacturer and still they have a lifetime guarantee and warranty. I also like the fact that they were first. Even if a company tries to exactly rip-off a RCS product, they would still need years of money and effort to catch up. There are a lot of rather minute details well-thought-out that amount to a general sense of "perfection."
Other manufacturers will claim "yes most clones suck, but mine is the best" but you really need to see the products side-by-side if you are going to take the risk of purchasing a clone. Most likely you need to use both to understand the difference in quality, and for that to happen you're going to be paying twice as much as if you had just bought/stuck with a Raven in the first place. D'oh.
update?
101 Holsters review (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=93913)
Really stealing ones intellectual property to make a few bucks why not right... :stop:
My great friend and CEO at Battle Comp also learned this the hard way this past year too......
So you believe that only one manufacturer should be able to produce a concealment holster from kydex?
Every manufacturer that produced a duty holster with a thumb break after the first design is stealing?
I see this as competition in the marketplace. There is an unfilled and unmet demand that 101 seeks to meet. This is capitalism at it's finest.
Any company that seeks to maintain it's market share must also seek to meet the demand for their product. Competition is a mother effer.
"So you believe that only one manufacturer should be able to produce a concealment holster from kydex?
Every manufacturer that produced a duty holster with a thumb break after the first design is stealing?
I see this as competition in the marketplace. There is an unfilled and unmet demand that 101 seeks to meet. This is capitalism at it's finest.
Any company that seeks to maintain it's market share must also seek to meet the demand for their product. Competition is a mother effer."
No I believe in integrity, and that a company that started a product line should not have had to worry about there ideas and designs being knocked off worse, than an overseas airsoft company and many of them inferior. because people have no patience to wait, (I have waited 5 years for custom handgun and 2 for custom leather), that's what caused this
then what has happened many have been so let down they go right back to raven and now wait even longer
Raven has a lot of business, there is a big jump between a thumb break strap and copying a holster verbatim
You feel that way if the shoe was on the other foot now would you? if your hard work and ideas were being copied?
having been there and having ideas ripped off its sore spot with me
i think competition is great its even better when its an original idea or a better design. that has yet to happen.
with ravens new hires and new process and new items coming, and shorter wait times
good luck in your ventures and enjoy, hopefully you will have something original in the future that sets you apart then i look forward to trying those items.....Until then
Ill keep buying from a company that i know can support the product with CS in years to come....
and your right competition is, wait till you see there new line up coming.....good luck
No I believe in integrity, and that a company that started a product line should not have had to worry about there ideas and designs being knocked off worse, than an overseas airsoft company and many of them inferior. because people have no patience to wait, (I have waited 5 years for custom handgun and 2 for custom leather), that's what caused this
then what has happened many have been so let down they go right back to raven and now wait even longer
Raven has a lot of business, there is a big jump between a thumb break strap and copying a holster verbatim
You feel that way if the shoe was on the other foot now would you? if your hard work and ideas were being copied?
having been there and having ideas ripped off its sore spot with me
i think competition is great its even better when its an original idea or a better design. that has yet to happen.
with ravens new hires and new process and new items coming, and shorter wait times
good luck in your ventures and enjoy, hopefully you will have something original in the future that sets you apart then i look forward to trying those items.....Until then
Ill keep buying from a company that i know can support the product with CS in years to come....
and your right competition is, wait till you see there new line up coming.....good luck
I am merely a customer of BOTH companies.
EDIT: I make active contributions to discussions by making bitchy comments to guys using their real names, while I hide behind a screen-name like a nancy.
Thanks Steve,
it was a long road and a lot of years of work like anything of course
.......
Enjoy, hope to see you at class this year if not give me a shout we can meet up and do range day some time
Steve,
If you are serious, I very well may take you up on that. I very much appreciate the opportunity.
Out of curiosity, is home base still Michigan for you or did you transfer out of state with MD?
Best to you and the family.
I have to laugh that they are all ready trying to rip off another raven item that was released at shot show and has been in R7D for over a year
Some will learn the hardway
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-22-12, 05:22
I have to laugh that they are all ready trying to rip off another raven item that was released at shot show and has been in R7D for over a year
Some will learn the hardway
Steve, thats no joke. 101 ripped that off real quick. Thats a shame too, because I really view the V II from RCS as a true innovation in kydex, which is something we havent seen in awhile. I dont fault any company in trying to make pancake holsters for guns (its a pretty universal idea, esp in the knife world), but to rip off a BRAND NEW innovative product is dirty.
I will say they will probably eat up the market of "how is the V2 safe" crowd with sales pitches of "with holstering guide making it much safer to holster"...
To many people question the V2 me thinks. Kind of sad how many people put such emphasis on quick holstering that they cannot see how to really use a product.
nobody knows
01-22-12, 12:01
That's to bad, from what iv read raven spent quit a bit of time on this. Personally I wouldn't use one from any company, as I like my DĦ{£ where It's at.
I own a RCS holster & mag pouch, but when I saw this thread I decided to spend a few bucks and buy a couple things from 101.
Here's what i bought:
dual mag pouch for Glock 9/40, black. (rounds backwards).
Single mag pouch for PMAG, coyote. PIGGYBACK option, with pistol rounds facing backwards, Rifle rounds facing forwards.
I had some money in my Paypal account ($50), so I figured what the hell.
I look forward to doing a review/comparison when I get them. These should be a nice complement to the carriers I currently have, and for $15.95 out of pocket, I think it was worth the risk.
Merry Christmas,
Tom
I'd like to add a followup since I received my order about a week ago.
I ordered the following 2 items on 12/25:Both items were ordered for a left handed shooter (right side wear).
dual mag pouch for glock 9/40, black (rounds backwards)
Single mag pouch for PMAG, coyote PIGGYBACK option, with pistol rounds facing backwards, rifle rounds facing forward.
On 12/26/12 I emailed JT to modify my order so that all rounds will face rearward. He quickly confirmed that the change would be made. Cool.
On 1/9/12 I received an email from JT stating the following: (I appreciate the honesty, and the offer to keep product if I wasn't 100% satisfied)
Tom,
I forgot to mention and I already sent the package that because I made the rifle mag rounds backward when you draw it the magazine release catch may pull the glock mag out. when we tested i out it happened then I reformed it and it work. If you experience any problems just let me know and i'll send you a credit, don't worry about sending it back.
thanks
JT
1/12/12: Products arrived. At first glance, they looked good, but we all know the proofs in the pudding.
The Good:
1. Overall quality is decent.
2. Lead time was quick (2 weeks +/-).
3. Retention is very good ("snaps" in place).
The Bad:
1. The first thing I noticed was that the edges were not sanded as well as my RCS holster, or that the kydex pieces were sanded evenly. Not a big deal at all, but since people are comparing them to RCS, it's important to note the differences.
2. The belt loops were pretty rough too. 100% functional, just not visually satisfying as RCS.
3. The hardware 101 uses IMO is kinda crappy. I noticed that the belt loops on both the PMAG & pistol pouch were loose, so i grabbed my screwdriver to tighten. Without even major pressure, two of the screws on the pistol mag stripped, and one of the PMAG pouch stripped as well. I ended up running to Home Depot to pick up some temporary replacements. Eventually I ended up ordering some extra hardware from RCS as I needed new IWB belt loops.
Those issues I can live with, no problem. Now the biggest thing. The pouches came made for a right handed shooter (left side carry)!. Remember, I specifically mentioned I was LH, and these needed to be for right-side carry.
I emailed JT, and here was his response:
Tom,
That sucks, it is hard to find good help. ill send you out the stuff tomorrow it may make it. Ill include a return envelope to send the other ones back
At first I was pissed, because IMO this is pure oversight on the order. I tried them on, practiced some dry firing/mag changes, and decided that I could live with it. I ended up emailing JT that I would just keep them. He responded one last time to let me know that if I changed my mind, to just let him know.
I 100% realize shit happens. And in my specific instance things worked out OK...but to overlook the fact that you didn't make what your customer ordered? Meh.
I have a carbine class next weekend and I look forward to putting them through the paces. I'll come back and post a followup.
These are not in the same category as RCS in my opinion. they're useable, but rough around the edges. I'd choose my RCS products everyday over 101 products. I appreciate you taking the time to read my review. I'll post some pictures up a little later today.
I did however, appreciate JT's quick responses and willingness to make things right. That counts for something, IMO.
TomTom
No, it looks like another shitty knock off of Raven Concealment. I don't do business with companies that rip off other companies designs and then try and sell them at a reduced price.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-22-12, 13:15
I'd like to add a followup since I received my order about a week ago.
TomTom
Tom,
thanks for the honest, unbiased review. Thats what M4C is all about!
I will say they will probably eat up the market of "how is the V2 safe" crowd with sales pitches of "with holstering guide making it much safer to holster"...
To many people question the V2 me thinks. Kind of sad how many people put such emphasis on quick holstering that they cannot see how to really use a product.
the Vg2 is a specific piece of gear, i tell those that have used it and seen it when asked about it i tell them i don't get points for a speed re holstering, i don't plan to use it to go hands on with someone if my gun is all ready out if it is there is other things going on if i need to secure or hide the gun i have other options or i simply reholster
I have to laugh that they are all ready trying to rip off another raven item that was released at shot show and has been in R7D for over a year
I also took notice of the timing.
the Vg2 is a specific piece of gear, i tell those that have used it and seen it when asked about it i tell them i don't get points for a speed re holstering, i don't plan to use it to go hands on with someone if my gun is all ready out if it is there is other things going on if i need to secure or hide the gun i have other options or i simply reholster
Indeed. I don't know if some people just feel the need to be bad ass and do the draw, shoot, and holster like some sort of western or what. I could see it slowing practice down some but then again that might not be a bad thing at all.
I'll probably be getting one to give me some other options (V2 that is, not 101 knock off) but I am not one to fret not looking cool when holstering.
The capital involved to patent a design is huge for someone just trying to get started.
I've watched someone have their IP taken without permission, and been concerned about having some of mine taken, as well. This stuff is no joke.
Unless consumers are willing to vote with their dollars and refuse to buy from copy-cats, only the BlackHawk!'s of the industry will be able to compete.
For someone with an idea to setup a shop, invest in tooling, dedicate their time to producing their product, create a website to market their goods and take orders, do all their own accounting and record keeping, shipping and overhead, etc... investing additional thousands of dollars on protecting an idea (or pay legal fee's to take an offender to court) is out of reach for most guys making products for this niche industry.
To straight up copy someone's product is a scum bag move. Trying to hitch a ride off of someone else's hard work and innovation is just shameful.
Imagine if RCS was just starting out and didn't have the capital to protect this product before they brought it to market... I think it's fair to say that without their previous sales on their Phantom that it wouldn't have been possible for them to protect this one.
I hope this shop gets on all of our black-lists for trying to rip off someone else's hard work, and that RCS hammers this guy over this.
I hope this shop gets on all of our black-lists for trying to rip off someone else's hard work, and that RCS hammers this guy over this.
If history repeats itself your hope will become reality, right or wrong. RCS has enough of a fanbase to make it happen.
If history repeats itself your hope will become reality, right or wrong. RCS has enough of a fanbase to make it happen.
Just to clarify, I'm not a member of the "RCS or nothing" club. They make a good product and their CS is top notch, but I don't really use their products myself.
My opinion is just rooted in ethics, not an undying loyalty to any one company in particular.
I've been using gear from 101 holsters for awhile and made a video about it awhile back(see here (http://youtu.be/tkWkp7jXXSg)). The gear I have has taken abuse and the customer service from them has been really solid; customization, parts replacements, part upgrades, etc.
Nice video. I've been using a standard owb for my 5" Springfield xd for a few months now and I do like it. In fact, I just got around to ordering a mag carrier to match.
Nice video. I've been using a standard owb for my 5" Springfield xd for a few months now and I do like it. In fact, I just got around to ordering a mag carrier to match.
Thanks man. You have pics available of your set up?
Sorry man. Kept forgetting.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/29/pejy8e5e.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/29/3a2yre5u.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/29/zu7a4amu.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/29/emuvepun.jpg
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