View Full Version : Canted REAR AK Sight...Help...
Ok, usually I encounter the dreaded canted front sight. But I recently got an Egyptian ARM and it is the rear sight that is canted. Did my best to photograph the problem, the front sight seems to be straight and in the 12 o'clock position.
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7374/000000001622.jpg
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4503/000000001625.jpg
When I hold the rifle correctly, the rear sight seems to be at 11 o'clock. I was told that I could simply move it over with a hammer, but before I screw up an otherwise nice rifle I wanted to run that past some people who are more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to AKs.
Heavy Metal
11-08-11, 12:02
Is it the sight iteslf or the rear sight housing?
KalashniKEV
11-08-11, 12:49
Is it the sight iteslf or the rear sight housing?
+1
If it's the sight itself, you might just pop it out, have a look at the spring, straighten/replace, and re-install.
If your whole rear sight block is canted... well you can take it apart and re-install, or just cant the front sight to match and go gangsta. You're not going to hammer that one straight.
Is it the sight iteslf or the rear sight housing?
Hard to say for sure, I'm guessing it is the housing.
+1
If it's the sight itself, you might just pop it out, have a look at the spring, straighten/replace, and re-install.
Can you talk me through that one? I figure I'll try the easy fix first and if that ain't it then I know it's the block.
Heavy Metal
11-08-11, 15:00
Steyr,
Take a picture looking from the top down on the rear sight. From above the rifle.
Steyr,
Take a picture looking from the top down on the rear sight. From above the rifle.
Will do, should be able to get it up later tonight.
Thanks.
Hmmm. When I've run into this, it was because the rsb was canted by the "ears" of the front trunnion in a milled receiver build. This was because I had improperly given clearance on the ears to open them up for the larger milled gun rsb, but that's something that's too long to explain here.
Anyway, the fix for this (if it's what I think it is) is not simple. It could be that the trunnion itself is misaligned with the receiver, or that the barrel channel in the trunnion is not concentric. Either of these could cause what you're seeing. As could a barrel that's bent closer to the chamber end.
Use a flashlight to shine into the chamber, and look down the bore. Is the barrel straight as far as you can tell? If so, it could be that the front trunnion barrel hole is not concentric or is riveted into the receiver misaligned, which would be darn near impossible to fix without a new trunnion and / or rebuild. The gun may still shoot just fine, but this is one of those things that can bother folks that like their weapons to look "right". More pics would help, of course. I'm not certain that my hypothesis is correct, so any additional info would be good. :)
KalashniKEV
11-09-11, 07:32
Can you talk me through that one? I figure I'll try the easy fix first and if that ain't it then I know it's the block.
Just press a regular screw driver ahead to the sight to relieve the tension on it and then wiggle it loose. You can see where the hole is larger towards the front of the rifle.
There are a bunch of youtube vids that show it.
Determining if it's the RSB or the sight leaf is easy. Without a mag just place it sitting up on a table and see if the sides of the RSB are straight.
I had this happen during a build that I didn't properly support the rsb block when I was either riveting the trunion to the receiver or pressing out the barrel pin when I was demilling the kit (I can't remember which event). The crappy jig work let the block press up against my press' base and it canted the sight/block.
I corrected it with blows from a rubber mallet after I secured the riveted receiver in a vice. Make sure to take the sight leaf off.
I'm guessing this is what happened with this gun. Is it a kit build?
upon looking at the pics and actually comprehending the OP (it's not a kit build), I'm conflicted as to how you would correct this. Maadi ARMs with the orginal receiver are as close to getting a soviet akm as any of us will ever be. Whatever you do, do not grind off a rivet to correct it. If you fix it with a hammer, be careful. If it were me, I would leave it alone and put that baby in a locked display cabinet visible to everyone that would come to my house, not caring if it would prevent me from getting laid the rest of my life.
Is that the one you just got from Troy recently? If so, I'd let him know and see if he can do something about it.
Heavy Metal
11-09-11, 08:56
One stupid fix might be to weld the rear notch up and cut a new one shifted to the right.
Steyr, we need that pic!
Hope this helps. You can see where the rear sight notch is left of the center rib on the top cover.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8456/000000001636.jpg
Is that the one you just got from Troy recently? If so, I'd let him know and see if he can do something about it.
He's the one who suggested I correct with a mallet. I wanted to make sure that was the best course of action before I attempted it. I'm also trying to fix it locally if I can, Troy didn't offer to correct it and even if he did I'd like to avoid two way shipping if possible.
To my eye, it appears as though the barrel hole in the trunnion is not concentric or the trunnion is riveted in out of alignment. If you notice, the entire front end appears to cant to the right. Rsb and all. It should shoot fine, but will look a little wonky. Don't think mallet therapy will help here, but that's just one guy's opinion on the Interwebs. :)
It looks like the block was canted like my build. It would be interesting to know this particular rifle's root cause.
A rubber mallet won't hurt it. However, you will need numerous forceful blows.
Nice rifle.
To my eye, it appears as though the barrel hole in the trunnion is not concentric or the trunnion is riveted in out of alignment. If you notice, the entire front end appears to cant to the right. Rsb and all. It should shoot fine, but will look a little wonky. Don't think mallet therapy will help here, but that's just one guy's opinion on the Interwebs. :)
I see it, too. The two rivet heads don't appear to line up. Good catch. The shadow on the right side of the rifle makes it difficult to make out the rivet alignment, but you're right.
I still think the mallet will help correct the rsb block. It worked on my build.
Ok, so I'm thinking about putting the rifle in a vice with wood blocks to protect it from the vice jaws and putting a wooden dowel against the left side of the rear sight block and giving it a few whacks with a rubber mallet to try and rotate it up to a more correct 12 o'clock position.
Is everyone in agreement that this is the best course of action? I don't want to fubar this rifle.
Is everyone in agreement that this is the best course of action? I don't want to fubar this rifle.
No. Reason being it appears as though you are trying to achieve a lateral movement. From your pics and description is looks like the RSB is timed properly, but it's canted to the side. Correcting the left-to-right cant will likely require more involved and invasive techniques than hammer therapy. Hitting the rsb will maybe achieve some rotational movement around the axis of the barrel. Not the lateral correction you seek. This is of course just my opinion from what I've interpreted. YMMV.
No. Reason being it appears as though you are trying to achieve a lateral movement. From your pics and description is looks like the RSB is timed properly, but it's canted to the side. Correcting the left-to-right cant will likely require more involved and invasive techniques than hammer therapy. Hitting the rsb will maybe achieve some rotational movement around the axis of the barrel. Not the lateral correction you seek. This is of course just my opinion from what I've interpreted. YMMV.
It does seem to be a rotational problem, not only is the center of the notch at about 11 o'clock the left side of the sight it lower than the right side of the sight. Theoretically if I rotated it around to the 12 o'clock position everything should become center and level.
I'm just not sure I want to risk messing anything up. This is the one thing I hate about Ak rifles. Furthermore, according to Troy it is zeroed and accurate "as is" so if I fix it, I may have to move the centered front post to one of the extremes to reconcile POA with POI even though the front sight seems straight to me. As far as AKs go..."it ain't really broke so I'm not sure I want to fix it."
So sadly I think I am just going to try and move it on Gunbroker and try again later. This will be my 5th AKM I have acquired and let go because it wasn't quite exactly what I want. Really sad too because I wanted this to be the one, as noted Egyptians are damn near Russians.
So sadly I think I am just going to try and move it on Gunbroker and try again later. This will be my 5th AKM I have acquired and let go because it wasn't quite exactly what I want. Really sad too because I wanted this to be the one, as noted Egyptians are damn near Russians.
Fixing this issue could be a headache, I agree. Without the tools to do it myself, I would sell the rifle too.
Main reason I got into building them was to make the guns I wanted to shoot. Wasn't a financial decision, that's for damn sure....
It sucks to have discriminating taste! :D
But yeah, I think your reasoning is sound. Sell this one to someone who doesn't mind the problem. There's an AK (or several) out there waiting for you that will meet your expectations.
It sucks to have discriminating taste! :D
Sure does. In some ways the sight cant is authentic, especially for an Egyptian, but this is one AK eccentricity I could never accept. It's beautiful otherwise.
http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/260022000/260022015/pix257932105.jpg
Steyr, word of advice for future AKM purchases....
The only Maadi's that you should be looking at are the ones imported by Steyr in the 80's. Those have a much higher standard of build quality and are indeed close to the Soviets.
Bear in mind that Egypt broke ties with the Soviets in 1981, with resulting quality control decreases.
For your own mental health and well being, pony up the shekels and get a Steyr Maadi.
The FSB parting lines on Egyptians are in a different location than the soviet fsb I have in the safe. The front trunion is close, but not exact. Everything else I would say looks close enough to be soviet style (on the Maadi's I've examined at the local toy store). After 1972, it's hard to say if the original tooling is soviet installed or not.
I have always liked Maadi built rifles. I have a illogical weakness for foreign stamped receivers.
Peshawar's advice is solid. My experience is strictly reforming a deformation I put in the rear sight block.
Steyr, word of advice for future AKM purchases....
The only Maadi's that you should be looking at are the ones imported by Steyr in the 80's. Those have a much higher standard of build quality and are indeed close to the Soviets.
Bear in mind that Egypt broke ties with the Soviets in 1981, with resulting quality control decreases.
For your own mental health and well being, pony up the shekels and get a Steyr Maadi.
Thanks for the input but I just can't bring myself to drop the $2k+ that the Steyr imports go for. I can't even bring myself to drop $1,500 for a Polytech Legend and that is a very nice AK. With SGL21s going for $750 I just can't do it.
As luck would have it, I have owned probably a dozen Maadi ARMs and MISRs over the years and this is the first one I've run into with canted front or rear sights. It would have simply been a lot easier to replace the FSB on one of those so I could have threads and a slant brake.
This one "seemed" to have it all and that is why I grabbed it. I only wish Arsenal had SGL21s with old style gas ports and 14mm threads. Cause I can't bring myself to pay SAM 7 prices either.
dwhitehorne
11-09-11, 16:14
Hope this helps. You can see where the rear sight notch is left of the center rib on the top cover.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8456/000000001636.jpg
No AK expert here, but coult the rear sight leaf just be off. From the camera angle it looks like there is less space on the left side than the right. The reason I ask is a few years ago I had a WASR that the front sight was adjusted all the way to the right to zero. I bought an adjustable rear sight in the attempt to get front post a little more centered. Come to find out once I replaced the rear leaf I found out the Romanian insert was just off and got the sights centered just by installing the near rear sight leaf. You give it a good whack with a large screw driver and it will pop right out. Then you can see if the pins that hold in the sight are off. David
Well after careful consideration, and coming to the conclusion that I probably can't fix this myself and don't want to risk trying, I contacted Troy at Inrange and I'm sending the rifle to him.
I'm pretty confident that he will be able to get this rifle straightened out and I will finally have the classic AKM I wanted in the first place. I was just hoping to not have to spend the extra shipping to get it done.
Just goes to show, there really is no such thing as a cheap AK.
:lol:
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