View Full Version : Someone Please Explain This One To Me
Okay so I have been trying to sell my BCM 16" Carbine. I have had 6 different people come over to look at it. I have taken the time to explain how the quality of the rifle parts are essential to the long term life and functionality/dependability of the rifle. Most of them were saying that that is great and the rifle is certainly worth the $1,400 I am asking.
So then why did they not buy it? Well because they wanted a carbine with a scope. When I asked what kind of scope most said at least an 8x power scope. Essentially a hunting scope or similar.
I was like you know you could buy a scope yourself instead of looking for one with a scope. They said sure, but they weren't sure what scope was best. So when I ask them what they plan on using the rifle for such as hunting, plinking, HD, etc. they look at me crazy and ask why would they use it for HD. I explain that some do for various reasons. Anyway, they say primarily for plinking. Some say for varmint, plinking and all around purposes.
I ask them if they know what a M4 Carbine type rifle is for. They are not sure what I am asking or so that is the look on their faces. The clearly did not understand that the M4 Carbine is a fighting rifle. It is primarily used for short to medium range engagements. Not for varmint or plinking or sniping (which I assume most if not all wanted it with a scope for that kind of purpose).
So why do so many people want a carbine length rifle with a rifle length scope on it? I am NOT talking about variable 1x - 4x RDS scopes and the like.
I guess I should buy a $100 scope and put it on the rifle and raise the price to $1,500 and then sell it?
We call those folks "Tactical Fudds"
What on earth are you wasting your time selling a gun in a local sale instead of on the internet?
Why to you want every degenerate, inbred, and hillbilly at your place?
It must be the percieved notion that all assault rifles need to have a scope on them to be "lethal enough". :rolleyes:
Other than that maybe Hollywood really does have an influence over our society. Its all about the look these days regardless of function. :D
If you go and buy a $100 scope, the buyer may then complain that the scope isn't of high enough quality or something. (You did explain to the buyer ALL about quality correct?)
If the buyer cannot answer your question about what an M4 rifle is for, then the people you are trying to sell to might just be seeing a Bushmaster or an Oly. To them an AR is an AR and they don't really care either way. Have any of the buyers heard of BCM??
Put this for sale on the internet and be done with it. A carbine of that level cannot be sold in the average local gun buyer market. Nobody knows what it is and you have deal with trash.
You have to deal with people that are incapable of picking out their own optics. What does that tell you?
Maybe print a few different name brand scopes w/ prices and show em how much more your AR would cost them
Reagans Rascals
11-09-11, 13:37
throw a bushnell from walmart on it, post it on TOS for $1800 and just say some b/s like BCM is just a subcontractor for DPMS so you know its good.... it'll be gone in 5 hours...
also... I've never went to look at a gun (at a private sale) that I did not intend on leaving with... unless it was fubar... so I dunno what those people were doing besides getting to play with a gun they've never seen in person, or could not afford either way...
don't forget to add the accuwedge and grip-pod!
What are the specs on your Carbine to have it priced at $1,400? Depending on how its set up you may be better off semi parting it out and selling over the internet.
Greg Kulbick
11-09-11, 13:49
They might not be buying it from you because from your post, it sounds like you're telling them they're not good enough for it.
throw a bushnell from walmart on it, post it on TOS for $1800 and just say some b/s like BCM is just a subcontractor for DPMS so you know its good.... it'll be gone in 5 hours...
also... I've never went to look at a gun (at a private sale) that I did not intend on leaving with... unless it was fubar... so I dunno what those people were doing besides getting to play with a gun they've never seen in person, or could not afford either way...
Same here, I've sold 4 firearms privately over the years & never had to show them more than once. But, I weeded out the idiots over the phone first. Serious, intelligent buyers don't ask stupid questions or sound like morons in conversation, just sayin.:p
Reagans Rascals
11-09-11, 14:01
[/B] Serious, intelligent buyers don't ask stupid questions or sound like morons in conversation, just sayin.:p
precisely why I stayed with the Apple computers when I was working retail years ago.... no one "stumbles" upon a $2,500 machine and instantly decides they must have it... the consumers that drive that market are usually very well educated on the product and know exactly what they want and exactly what they are going to pay for it...or at least that's how I observed it
Put this for sale on the internet and be done with it. A carbine of that level cannot be sold in the average local gun buyer market. Nobody knows what it is and you have deal with trash.
You have to deal with people that are incapable of picking out their own optics. What does that tell you?
Scottyran's post is pretty much spot on...I've been divesting myself of rifles,handguns, I no longer use and taking the money for things I will use. At one time I considered selling my Charles Daly AR and purchasing a Colt from Grant,..some of you may remember CD, at the time, they were decently built,the only dings against them on the chart were the BCG was'nt HPI'd MP'd and the barrel was'nt HPI'd, they also used straight pins on the FSB, and the barrel wasn't parked under the FSB they did use 1/7 twist and the proper grade 4150 steel, all in all a decent rifle. I had replaced the BCG with a LMT unit, so, that was addressed,kept the factory BCG as a spare, installed a Troy rail, rear sight, magpul triggerguard,and VHG Anyway, I went to a gunshow to sell some other C&R rifles and got a good look around..The AR's that were garnering the most Bubba attention were at the DPMS didplay...and at least 4 of the display rifles had huge scopes on them with bipods, tactical lights (UTG chinese junk) and UTG rails already installed..And, in his price range,(about $800 minus the scope, but that's ok, a couple isles over, they BSA scopes for sale) this is more imortant than anything,after all, why buy a DD omega rail, when the UTG rail is cheaper? This is what the average Bubba wants in a AR,He wants quality, but dosen't want to pay for it. He ain't got a clue, nor will he spend 15minutes on the internet to do a little research..I saw right then and there I could never sell my CD at a gunshow, as bubba would'nt know who they were, or how decent they really built, compared to the DPMS display models..In short, I could never get what it's worth. I've decided to keep it, sell off a few more rifles that gather dust and use the money to get a Aimpoint pro, and a few other things bring it up to speed as a HD/SD rifle.. At this gunshow, I didn't see one decent quality AR, No Colts,LMT's, DD, BCM, nothing but DPMS, Bushmaster's and the Bubba's were swarming all over them.. The addage about a fool and his money is so true...To the OP, try selling your rifle on the 'net, chances are you'll find a informed buyer, because, they certianly are not at gunshows...
precisely why I stayed with the Apple computers when I was working retail years ago.... no one "stumbles" upon a $2,500 machine and instantly decides they must have it... the consumers that drive that market are usually very well educated on the product and know exactly what they want and exactly what they are going to pay for it...or at least that's how I observed it
Agreed.
I can't stand tire kickers, I haven't the time nor patience to humor them.
Put this for sale on the internet and be done with it. A carbine of that level cannot be sold in the average local gun buyer market. Nobody knows what it is and you have deal with trash.
You have to deal with people that are incapable of picking out their own optics. What does that tell you?
I agree; they dont know what they dont know. Your missing your target market and in turn having to explain features and aspects that you shouldnt have to. I have sent documents and articles to people who wanted "advice" on what to buy and it all summed up nicely by one response in email that stated, "my only qualification is that it looks badass." That was it & it was a waste of time.
donlapalma
11-09-11, 14:33
I'm curious why these prospective buyers got all the way to your place of residence only to realize that the rifle does not come with a scope. How are you advertising this firearm? Is your description written in sufficient enough detail so that a potential buyer can make a thoughtful decision on whether taking the time for a hands-on look made sense based on their "wants"?
I've sold a handful of firearms over the past few years and felt that a well written advertisement was paramount to an effective and efficient sale. Good luck.
Animal_Mother556
11-09-11, 14:48
Put this for sale on the internet and be done with it. A carbine of that level cannot be sold in the average local gun buyer market. Nobody knows what it is and you have deal with trash.
You have to deal with people that are incapable of picking out their own optics. What does that tell you?
Esta ^^
Time for Gunbroker and forum listings.
The Golden Rule:
99% of people in the firearms community = Trash
The Golden Rule:
99% of people in the firearms community = Trash
Wow, how do you really feel?:D
99% seems high, but I can't support a lower percentage argument with any hard facts either?:p
Wow, how do you really feel?:D
99% seems high, but I can't support a lower percentage argument with any hard facts either?:p
The people on this forum are about 1 out of every 100 gun buyers that are actually educated and buy quality stuff.
We get into a delusion thinking all gun people are like us because we spend so much time on the forums.
The people on this forum are about 1 out of every 100 gun buyers that are actually educated and buy quality stuff.
We get into a delusion thinking all gun people are like us because we spend so much time on the forums.
I agree with that.
I'm from Ne. also and the last gun show I attended was pretty depressing. They really do bring out the worst amongst us.......I was there for 30 min and left. Pretty much long enough to pickup some ammo cans and do a quick walk through.:p
Didnt want to grab some home brew beef jerky or the latest in wearable turquoise? :(
Didnt want to grab some home brew beef jerky or the latest in wearable turquoise? :(
That's funny, don't get me started though!:p
I've really come to dislike gun shows honestly. Not only due to the dorks that flock to them, but also the situation you pointed out. I don't care for any indian art, poorly made leather products, coins, UTG junk or a ccw badge!
Ammo cans are the only thing I've brought home from a gun show in years.:mad:
Last time I went to a gun show I went lookin' for a Surefire X300. There were only two tables in the entire show that had any Surefire products at all, most of the pistol lights were like, famous maker or somethin. D:
Sometimes you can get decent deals on bulk ammo there though so at least there's that. Internet prices for AE XM193 and PMC without paying shipping.
SuperiorDG
11-09-11, 16:58
I'll try and stop this before it ends up going down the gun show tracks and derails.
What I've discovered over years of sales is that some people just want to "test drive" your gun. They will listen to your pitch and waste your time just to see what a nice gun looks like. You need to weed these folks out upon first contact with hard questions. Get some kind of commitment out of them before spending time with them.
OP, cater to the market and throw a Barska or Vortex on there with a Gripod for snipin from da prone. Throw in some 'Team VI' patches for good measure :D give the people what they want.
Didnt want to grab some home brew beef jerky or the latest in wearable turquoise? :(
:lol: Dead on with the turquoise comment.
I know Ohio's bad...but who knows what you'd see at NE (Porkchops) gun shows!
OP, cater to the market and throw a Barska or Vortex on there with a Gripod for snipin from da prone. Throw in some 'Team VI' patches for good measure :D give the people what they want.
:lol: Dead on with the turquoise comment.
I know Ohio's bad...but who knows what you'd see at NE (Porkchops) gun shows!
They are nearing the boundaries of worthless in my mind. I'd say a conservative estimate would put the tables that contain guns to those that don't in the 70/30 range...........maybe worse.:suicide2:
Agree with your advice here too, put a cheap scope on it or tac it out with "hyper-upgrades" and you'll have em beatin down your door.:D
I agree with that.
I'm from Ne. also and the last gun show I attended was pretty depressing. They really do bring out the worst amongst us.......I was there for 30 min and left. Pretty much long enough to pickup some ammo cans and do a quick walk through.:p
That's pretty much what I did, It took me all of 90 minutes to sell what I had brought, I got my asking price for everything,after I sold my last rifle (a M48 Mauser, with a pitted bore) I double-timed it to the door, One of the very few useful things gunshows are good for is dumping off unwanted items, It's been working well for me.
Eurodriver
11-09-11, 19:43
Put this for sale on the internet and be done with it. A carbine of that level cannot be sold in the average local gun buyer market. Nobody knows what it is and you have deal with trash.
You have to deal with people that are incapable of picking out their own optics. What does that tell you?
Like my friend who's never owned a rifle and bought a .338 Lapua Mag! :suicide2:
The only AR I've ever sold locally is a Bushmaster. I have never had a BCM up on M4C for longer than a week, and I have sold more than 4 uppers.
[/B]
They are nearing the boundaries of worthless in my mind. I'd say a conservative estimate would put the tables that contain guns to those that don't in the 70/30 range...........maybe worse.:suicide2:
Agree with your advice here too, put a cheap scope on it or tac it out with "hyper-upgrades" and you'll have em beatin down your door.:D
Agreed. I quit going to them.
I have enough contacts and internet forums ad boards where I don't need a gun show to find the stuff I want.
You cant fix stupid. I'll spend an hour (or more) with customers breaking down ar's showing them the quality differences between the dpms/bushmaster and the colts and after all this they say: well they look the same and the dpms/bushy are cheaper. Ugh the Customer is always right...
What on earth are you wasting your time selling a gun in a local sale instead of on the internet?
Why do you want every degenerate, inbred, and hillbilly at your place?
you forgot "mouthbreather"...
:p
I've pretty much given up trying to sell a quality AR at gun shows. If you have a Bushy or RRA to sell you are golden. If it's a BCM or DD at a great price it's an uphill battle unless you just get lucky or give it away.
buckshot1220
11-09-11, 22:35
Aside from the gun show path this thread is starting to go down...
A word of caution about inviting people over to check out your gun(s). When I did sell some guns locally, I always met the individual at a nearby gun shop where I had a good relationship with the owner/staff. I'd tell the person to bring a copy of their driver's license in case they decided to buy it. I'd show up with a generic bill of sale (which is still saved in my computer) so all I had to do was put in the serial #, date, their name and have them sign. Refrain from talking about your whole damn collection too, remember, they will probably want a copy of your license too which has your address. Off I'd go, off they'd go.
It keeps them out of your house. It keeps them away from your family. It is still a safe location.
mkmckinley
11-09-11, 22:38
throw a bushnell from walmart on it, post it on TOS for $1800 and just say some b/s like BCM is just a subcontractor for DPMS so you know its good.... it'll be gone in 5 hours...
I think RR is onto something here.
Aside from the gun show path this thread is starting to go down...
A word of caution about inviting people over to check out your gun(s). When I did sell some guns locally, I always met the individual at a nearby gun shop where I had a good relationship with the owner/staff. I'd tell the person to bring a copy of their driver's license in case they decided to buy it. I'd show up with a generic bill of sale (which is still saved in my computer) so all I had to do was put in the serial #, date, their name and have them sign. Refrain from talking about your whole damn collection too, remember, they will probably want a copy of your license too which has your address. Off I'd go, off they'd go.
It keeps them out of your house. It keeps them away from your family. It is still a safe location.
Absolutely, good words of wisdom. You gotta be on your tip toes around you home. Home defense in a preemptive matter.
The people on this forum are about 1 out of every 100 gun buyers that are actually educated and buy quality stuff.
I agree. So the bottom line is the EvilBert needs to visit with 99 ****ing idiots before #100 shows up and buys the gun.
Two things: I have a buddy come over when I meet these people. No way in hell I let them in my house. They get as far as the driveway and that is it. It is a long drive way too.
Second thing is yes, I have tried the Internet. This forum, ToS, and a few other forums too.
Here is the link to the posting here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=109
Still no bites. Had one person on this site in Northern VA show some interest, but than fell through pretty quickly.
Whenever I sell a firearm I always meet somewhere in the middle at a large parking lot. Let them inspect the weapons in the passenger seat of your car if you are worried about freaking out other shoppers.
soldier-of-the-apocalypse
11-10-11, 12:10
Maybe there is something in the water where you live. Do you have a more localized gun forum like here in Colorado we have co-ar15.com and RMGO.COM and most people on there know exactly what they are looking at when you post a gun for sale anytime I've sold a gun on these sites I've sold them the same day for asking price
Two things: I have a buddy come over when I meet these people.
So you are wasting your buddy's time along with yours?
Face to face deals are waste of time. I never sell a gun face to face.
I always sell it over the internet. I have peace of mind that it is going through an FFL and a backgound check and I am not liable for anything.
I can ship the gun on my own time and answer correspondence about the deal on my terms, not some douchebag's.
I don't have to worry about meeting someone I don't know and getting robbed or my place/vehicle scoped out by some would be thief.
If someone locally wants to buy it, we go to the local dealer and run it through his books.
Face to face deals are waste of time. I never sell a gun face to face.
I always sell it over the internet.
Every time I have sold a firearm it has been both face to face AND over the internet! :sarcastic:
I use a local firearms forum to advertise and then meet face to face when a buyer is found.
If you're worried about selling to a crook you can always say you'll only sell to people with concealed carry licenses. That way you can be sure they've gone through a background check without the hassle of going through an FFL.
St.Michael
11-10-11, 12:57
The Golden Rule:
99% of people in the firearms community = Trash
SO true.
I meet people who have rifles they paid 1300 dollars for that still are sub par and when I ask why they have a 20 dollar scope on it it's because it was "cheap" and works. I swear to god I can't figure out where this logic is.
One time though I met a guy who was buying a Noveske. It was right when "change" was getting into office. And when I asked if he liked noveske his answer was "I don't know anything about guns, this is just what the internet said was good". I just about cried.
Part everything out. Sorry you spent $1700 on that rifle.
Reagans Rascals
11-10-11, 13:30
Face to face deals are waste of time. I never sell a gun face to face.
the biggest thing I encounter with face to face deals... is the sheer inexplicable amount of haggling that takes place.... I guess since they are in person... and have some cash... they think they are entitled to come and finger **** my stuff and then try and haggle me into taking $400 less because "they got cash"
sorry..... but if I needed cash that bad I'd be giving 2 for 1 hummers in the Denny's parking lot...
I've never had a face to face where there wasn't someone trying their hardest to haggle the price down much, much more than is acceptable...
Had a guy set to buy my 2005 Moto Guzzi 1100 California Special with only 1300 miles, email correspondences were great, seemed like a winner... gets here to pick it up or so I thought.... wants to test drive it.. No that's not happening... then wants to offer me 2 grand for it since the economy down and its winter.... well I think I can wait to until spring to get the other 5k....
never again...
sorry for any offense
I don't barter well. If I'm selling something, I set it at a fair price that is somewhere between retail and wholesale and that's it, take it or leave it.
I have a $25 bartering limit. So, if you're one of those people that just needs the satisfaction of beating me down on the price, I'll give you the $25 otherwise.........**** off.:p
Part everything out. Sorry you spent $1700 on that rifle.
What the hell is that supposed mean. You telling me that the rifle is not worth $1700. It is nothing but BCM, DD, VLTOR, BattleComp, et al. Nothing but all quality parts. I even put an ARMS #40L-SP rear sight on it now.
I've edited my post. I honestly meant nothing by it and was only using it as slang for bartering.
I get it. I appreciate you editing your post. Even though you weren't targeting anyone (especially me). Now rock on with gun talk.
What the hell is that supposed mean. You telling me that the rifle is not worth $1700. It is nothing but BCM, DD, VLTOR, BattleComp, et al. Nothing but all quality parts. I even put an ARMS #40L-SP rear sight on it now.
Without getting involved in the dung-slinging that will surely commence here shorty, I do agree that parting these out will get you the best price compared to trying to sell it as a complete package. That said, those all sound like quality parts.
I've edited my post. I honestly meant nothing by it and was only using it as slang for bartering.
I am deeply offended :Nono:
:P
What the hell is that supposed mean. You telling me that the rifle is not worth $1700. It is nothing but BCM, DD, VLTOR, BattleComp, et al. Nothing but all quality parts. I even put an ARMS #40L-SP rear sight on it now.
Just because that's what you spent doesn't mean that's what it's worth. The value is in the buyer's eyes, not yours. If they don't think it's worth it, then they won't spend the money on it.
If people aren't buying it at the price you're asking, then you only have 2 options: 1.) Keep the rifle, or 2.) Dropping the price.
Two things: I have a buddy come over when I meet these people. No way in hell I let them in my house. They get as far as the driveway and that is it. It is a long drive way too.
Second thing is yes, I have tried the Internet. This forum, ToS, and a few other forums too.
Here is the link to the posting here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=109
Still no bites. Had one person on this site in Northern VA show some interest, but than fell through pretty quickly.
No offense, but you'd probably sell it faster if you lowered the price...As it stands, your $1700 value is at the maximum of what a person could expect to find each of those parts at retail. Most of us experienced members know that a gun isn't worth the sum of its parts and we know how to find many of those parts at better prices. You will lose some value there when everything is assembled.
The LE/mil members here automatically get a discount when they buy from many of these places so the full retail prices is even less applicable to them.
The shorter rail is going to be a dealbreaker for many here that want a longer one.
Economic times are tough...maybe sales will pick up in December as Grant has suggested in another thread.
Without getting involved in the dung-slinging that will surely commence here shorty, I do agree that parting these out will get you the best price compared to trying to sell it as a complete package. That said, those all sound like quality parts.
I am deeply offended :Nono:
:P
Go pound sand munch, I meant to offend YOU.:lol:
If I had a facebook account you could go there and "de-friend" me.:p
[/B]
Go pound sand munch, I meant to offend YOU.:lol:
If I had a facebook account you could go there and "de-friend" me.:p
Whatever man. Now you kinda have to let me join in the hog hunting trip :haha:
ETA--- no antisemitism intended.... just my verb of choice...
Noted.
Now, be a daisy and change your verb of choice, since your intent is irrelevant in the face of the posting rules you've tacitly agreed to follow by the act of creating an account. Plenty to choose from.
The rest of you yahoos, stop quoting the violations and use the Report Post button.
You can best "help" by making it so that we only have to edit 1 goddamned post, instead of edit or delete a dozen or so.
What the hell is that supposed mean. You telling me that the rifle is not worth $1700. It is nothing but BCM, DD, VLTOR, BattleComp, et al. Nothing but all quality parts. I even put an ARMS #40L-SP rear sight on it now.
Parting it out doesn't really seem like that bad an idea to me.
It's easier for people to come up with the cash for a part than a whole rifle, regardless of quality. You may end up making money on the deal, if you're patient?
If you're worried about selling to a crook you can always say you'll only sell to people with concealed carry licenses. That way you can be sure they've gone through a background check without the hassle of going through an FFL.
That is just another hassle on my end when I have to take a copy of their CCW card.
the biggest thing I encounter with face to face deals... is the sheer inexplicable amount of haggling that takes place.... I guess since they are in person... and have some cash... they think they are entitled to come and finger **** my stuff and then try and haggle me into taking $400 less because "they got cash"
sorry..... but if I needed cash that bad I'd be giving 2 for 1 hummers in the Denny's parking lot...
I've never had a face to face where there wasn't someone trying their hardest to haggle the price down much, much more than is acceptable...
Had a guy set to buy my 2005 Moto Guzzi 1100 California Special with only 1300 miles, email correspondences were great, seemed like a winner... gets here to pick it up or so I thought.... wants to test drive it.. No that's not happening... then wants to offer me 2 grand for it since the economy down and its winter.... well I think I can wait to until spring to get the other 5k....
never again...
sorry for any offense
Exactly and I completely forgot this. People are not going to haggle with me after I set up a time to meet them.
What the hell is that supposed mean. You telling me that the rifle is not worth $1700. It is nothing but BCM, DD, VLTOR, BattleComp, et al. Nothing but all quality parts. I even put an ARMS #40L-SP rear sight on it now.
You aren't going to get all your money back. This gun is set up the way you wanted it. Not what some buyer wants. Used package gun deals are a huge money loser.
What the hell is that supposed mean. You telling me that the rifle is not worth $1700. It is nothing but BCM, DD, VLTOR, BattleComp, et al. Nothing but all quality parts. I even put an ARMS #40L-SP rear sight on it now.
It means you expect people to think that they are saving $300 off new when they're not. Did you pay retail for everything? A new Vltor A5 kit is only $110 (less used) and you listed it at $150. Battle Comps sell for $140 ($100 used) and you list it at $170. A stripped Bushmaster lower for $195...really???
Here is an Omega in EE for $220.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92006
Whatever man. Now you kinda have to let me join in the hog hunting trip :haha:
Right on buddy.;)
OP, I have to agree with others about letting people come to your home. My home is no go territory for strangers, period. to each their own though.
It means you expect people to think that they are saving $300 off new when they're not. Did you pay retail for everything? A new Vltor A5 kit is only $110 (less used) and you listed it at $150. Battle Comps sell for $140 ($100 used) and you list it at $170. A stripped Bushmaster lower for $195...really???
Here is an Omega in EE for $220.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92006
Ouch...I was trying to be more diplomatic about it. :lol:
You can find a new DDM4 for ~$1400 or less if you "call for actual pricing"
http://clydearmory.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=ddm4
Selling guns is a losing proposition most of the time. This thread has outlived its' usefullness.
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