View Full Version : Middy won't feed steel case
On the way to the range today, I stopped at Wal Mart to get a .22 brick. I noticed Tula .223 55gr for 4.90/box so I figured I would try it. After firing a couple hundred rounds of Remington 55gr and Hornady 55gr, I loaded a couple of mags up with the Tula. Absolute Shit. The boltcarrier failed to pick up the ammunition after EVERY shot. It had no problem chambering rounds by pulling the charging handle, and it had no problem ejecting the spent casings, but it would not pick up rounds from the magazine when cycling. I tried two different BCM mags and a Pmag. None worked with the Tula. Weapon is a BCM middy upper on a Palmetto lower that I put together with a DD LPK. Never had any problems with the gun until today. Lesson learned: Pay a dollar extra for decent ammo.
The other disappointment of the day was having the dial on the elevation knob on my Vortex Viper 2-7x32 come unglued and disappear. Wasn't expecting that to happen from the massive recoil of a Ruger 10/22. Made adjusting the scope a bit tricky, as I had to figure out which way was up and down all by myself. :jester:
And my Eotech's battery was dead when I got there. Automatic turn off feature obviously didn't work from the last time I shot it a few weeks ago. Go figure.
Its probably shortstroking. Makes sense for the low pressure ammo and a barrel meant to run the 5.56 pressure stuff. On the other hand my BCM 14.5 middy runs the steel cased ammo fine, its all I use due to budget.
But today it was cold and i could definately feel the carrier being slower than usual. Some guns run it, some dont.. no sweat.
What type of buffer and spring are you using?
Eotechs are known to drain battery life down. it's been discussed numerous times.
On the way to the range today, I stopped at Wal Mart to get a .22 brick. I noticed Tula .223 55gr for 4.90/box so I figured I would try it. After firing a couple hundred rounds of Remington 55gr and Hornady 55gr, I loaded a couple of mags up with the Tula. Absolute Shit. The boltcarrier failed to pick up the ammunition after EVERY shot. It had no problem chambering rounds by pulling the charging handle, and it had no problem ejecting the spent casings, but it would not pick up rounds from the magazine when cycling. I tried two different BCM mags and a Pmag. None worked with the Tula. Weapon is a BCM middy upper on a Palmetto lower that I put together with a DD LPK. Never had any problems with the gun until today. Lesson learned: Pay a dollar extra for decent ammo.
The other disappointment of the day was having the dial on the elevation knob on my Vortex Viper 2-7x32 come unglued and disappear. Wasn't expecting that to happen from the massive recoil of a Ruger 10/22. Made adjusting the scope a bit tricky, as I had to figure out which way was up and down all by myself. :jester:
And my Eotech's battery was dead when I got there. Automatic turn off feature obviously didn't work from the last time I shot it a few weeks ago. Go figure.
Animal_Mother556
11-11-11, 18:48
This always reminds me of people that buy .22 pistols because they are so cheap to shoot...then they figure out that most .22 pistols will NOT eat the cheap .22 ammo. "I don't want to have to buy CCI Mini Mags all the time."
I'm not saying this to you, OP,or saying you are this way. I'm just saying I am reminded of these things.
As far as Tulammo...I have a friend with a DPMS carbine that is on a steady diet of Tula (I don't think he has put anything else through it). It runs fine. Of course he is using a carbine buffer, carbine gas system, yada yada.
Sounds like your issue may be there is just not enough pop for your rifle.
Sorry if my thread came across as hurrr durrr. Wasn't my intention. I don't really give a damn if the tula ammo didn't work because I never shoot tula. I grabbed a couple boxes to try because of the price. Just posting an account of what I experienced this afternoon, so others might learn from it.
I'm using an H buffer with a Larue spring. Barrel is 16" Next time I will take a carbine buffer as well and see if that helps. It did short stroke a couple of times, resulting in the bolt failing to lock fully forward, which I forgot to mention in my initial post.
As far as the Eotech draining down, it is an EXPS, which is supposedly much better on battery life than previous models, so I was surprised it had drained down already. Another lesson learned.
Forum would be pretty dull if all anybody posted was that all their shit worked perfectly all the time.
Thanks for the replies.
Isn't tula the worst (lowest pressure) of the steel cased stuff? Coupled with a 14.5 may do it.
Mine won't run ANY .223 Rem. I even tried some Federal 60gr Nosler Partition @ 3000fps. I figured at least that stuff would run reliably...but no.
In either event I have the same setup as you, BCM middy LW 14.5". I ran a car buffer at first when I had the issue, did try an H1 for shits and giggles. The H1 actually works VERY well with proper 5.56 stuff as recoil is a bit more tamed. I'm not sure it's a gas issue since I can't even run some of the hotter .223 Rem. Also, I can manage to get through a mag or two of 62gr Wolf without issue, then it starts malfunctioning every other round all of a sudden. I don't get it. I think I even had the H1 buffer in for part of that, and it seemed to make the steel ammo run a little better.
I thought about talking to BCM about it but I don't want to have the gas port opened up or otherwise do anything to effect recoil, since it's pretty tame with XM193 right now.
I've got 3 BCM 14.5 middy's, 2 of them lightweight. They all shoot anything and everything. I bought a case of Wolf 2 years ago and still have about 500 rounds. I only use it to ensure proper funtioning with crap ammo. Through these 3 I've shot Remington and PMC .223 numerous times and 1000's of rounds of Federal 5.56 and .223. When they were new I sometimes used a carbine buffer with the crap ammo. They have always ran. I've read here that the "H" buffers aren't needed on a 14.5 middy but that's what I generally use.
Are you using a stiffer sping along with an "H" buffer?
Isn't tula the worst (lowest pressure) of the steel cased stuff? Coupled with a 14.5 may do it.
yeah that tula stuff is crap...
something like wolf or silver bear will probably run.
And my Eotech's battery was dead when I got there. Automatic turn off feature obviously didn't work from the last time I shot it a few weeks ago. Go figure.
A dead Eotech when you needed it, you weren't surprised by this were you?
My carbine length DD chf barrel and spikes NiB bcg eat it and anything else all day. This is this the kind of thing I questioned in another thread before it was prematurely closed.
During the Magpul Dynamics course there were a few guys running Brown Bear and Wolf and their carbines seemed fine as far as I remember.
My gun will eat Hornady steel TAP all day long.
Raven Armament
11-12-11, 00:10
I don't understand why shooters spend over $1,000 on a weapon and then run the cheapest shit ammo in it. People are so focused on price these days they have forgotten about the value.
I don't understand why shooters spend over $1,000 on a weapon and then run the cheapest shit ammo in it. People are so focused on price these days they have forgotten about the value.
What value? If I'm shooting paper what 'value' does shooting a premium ammo bring me, save perhaps running a little better? But like others in this thread have said, their expensive rifles run the cheaper stuff just fine.
I fully understand the reasoning of using good ammo when the intent is to shoot things that need shooting...but to use expensive ammo to shoot holes in paper when cheaper stuff is available just makes more sense...especially for those not made of money.
My BCM midlenght 16inch SS carbine buffer, LMT 14.5 carbine lenght H2 buffer and my BCM 16inch carbine lenght H buffer runs wolf 55gr and brown bear 62gr H2 buffer fine.
ForTehNguyen
11-12-11, 07:52
I have about 5 midlengths: BCM/DD/Spikes they all run wolf, golden tiger fine. Heck me and my friends ACR and his SCAR runs wolf fine too.
I havent tried Tula. I always thought Tula was the same thing as Wolf just a different package
This does point out a reality of the weapon system -- it's hard to get a weapon to run reliably with a single buffer/spring combo and cover everything from NATO-spec to Tula.
My advice would be to divide the ammo spectrum in half, and commit to running either the higher end stuff (and paying the price) or running the lower end stuff and buffer it and spring it accordingly. Or just resign yourself to swapping out buffers and springs depending upon what ammo you're running that day. [ETA] In reality, the problemmatic ammo can probably be segregated to the lower 25% and your stock setup is probably already suited to run the upper 75% of the spectrum. You probably don't have to divide the ammo population in half, more like 75/25.]
And if you commit to running steel casd ammo, by all means keep your chamber clean. Chamber brush, solvent, then dry patch. Even if your a "just lube it and don't bother cleaning" kind of guy, you need to pay attention to this area. Don't let it get carboned up. Brass cased ammo is a bit cleaner in this regard.
What value? If I'm shooting paper what 'value' does shooting a premium ammo bring me, save perhaps running a little better? But like others in this thread have said, their expensive rifles run the cheaper stuff just fine.
I fully understand the reasoning of using good ammo when the intent is to shoot things that need shooting...but to use expensive ammo to shoot holes in paper when cheaper stuff is available just makes more sense...especially for those not made of money.
Amen and Amen.
My guess...ammo is at the lower end of the pressure curve and certainly not as hot as true USGI spec ammo. It may run with a standard carbine buffer.
The case is probably not the problem.
Have fun testing
Big Pepsi
I don't understand why shooters spend over $1,000 on a weapon and then run the cheapest shit ammo in it. People are so focused on price these days they have forgotten about the value.
I like knowing an AR I just spent a big chunk of change on will digest most any ammo I feed it. Its a requirement to remain in my safe. Any picky eaters will be sold or traded...lol.
What value? If I'm shooting paper what 'value' does shooting a premium ammo bring me, save perhaps running a little better? But like others in this thread have said, their expensive rifles run the cheaper stuff just fine.
I fully understand the reasoning of using good ammo when the intent is to shoot things that need shooting...but to use expensive ammo to shoot holes in paper when cheaper stuff is available just makes more sense...especially for those not made of money.
No one is suggesting you use Hornady or Federal Match ammo for plinking, but maybe not use bottom-of-the-barrel, underpressured, steel Russian ammo. Just maybe some Federal, Privi, or IMI XM193, or Fiocchi 55gr FMJ. All fairly cheap (I just saw Federal Lake City XM193 for $270/1000K at Brownells.) Not as cheap as some of the crap out of Russia, but certainly not "premium" priced.
RogerinTPA
11-12-11, 12:00
This does point out a reality of the weapon system -- it's hard to get a weapon to run reliably with a single buffer/spring combo and cover everything from NATO-spec to Tula.
My advice would be to divide the ammo spectrum in half, and commit to running either the higher end stuff (and paying the price) or running the lower end stuff and buffer it and spring it accordingly. Or just resign yourself to swapping out buffers and springs depending upon what ammo you're running that day. [ETA] In reality, the problemmatic ammo can probably be segregated to the lower 25% and your stock setup is probably already suited to run the upper 75% of the spectrum. You probably don't have to divide the ammo population in half, more like 75/25.]
And if you commit to running steel casd ammo, by all means keep your chamber clean. Chamber brush, solvent, then dry patch. Even if your a "just lube it and don't bother cleaning" kind of guy, you need to pay attention to this area. Don't let it get carboned up. Brass cased ammo is a bit cleaner in this regard.
Eh...that all depends... I used to regularly take my ARs (Colts, DD, & LMT) up to 3-4K rounds fired with just Wolf, or Brown Bear, to include using it in Carbine courses, just kept them generously lubed. I did it to prove that my ARs could do it on a regular basis and to quite the nay sayers of using Wolf/Eastern European ammo. On rare occasions, I'd get a stuck case, but I'd attributed that to a lack of lube in the chamber area. Most that do get stuck cases on a regular basis either have .223 chambers or ARs that aren't tuned properly for shooting a wide variety of ammo.
Several members have valid points about shooting Steel case ammo and I tend to agree:
1. It's just training ammo/fodder for paper punching or steel dinging.
2. It's economical, more training opportunity, and you really to get more bang for your buck.
3. It irritates the ammo snobs at carbine courses when my weapons don't shit the bed while shooting steel ammo. (my personal favorite).;)
sinlessorrow
11-12-11, 13:48
Every one of my rifles get a hearty serving of wolf WPA.
It runs fine and its made by barnauls, if i need to shoot something ill use OTM's that i c an afford, but for paper russian ammo is the way to go when u get it for $160/1000
I never shoot brass ammo, my budget just doesnt allow it, i have a case for SHTF/HD but other than that its all steel wolf
Avoid tula if you can though and old black box wolf, stay with brown/silver bear and wolf WPA, thy are made by barnauls and the best russian you can get
The boltcarrier failed to pick up the ammunition after EVERY shot.
Posted not just for your problem but for everyone else. The next time your rifle has a recurring malfunction short stroke test it first. It all starts with enough gas.
Posted not just for your problem but for everyone else. The next time your rifle has a recurring malfunction short stroke test it first. It all starts with enough gas.
Excellent! Thank you for the constructive advice. Next time I go shoot, I will try this. Sounds like the issue is definitely the lack of gas pressure generated by the ammo.
I'm using an H buffer with a Larue spring.
IIRC, these are the Sprinco RED springs wich are extra power, and very stiff. The Sprinco WHITE is the standard strength buffer spring, and the BLUE is in between white and red.
I like the extra engineering Sprinco puts in their springs. You may want to try out a white. The extra power ones aren't needed outside of a suppressed carbine gassed 16".
http://www.laruetactical.com/super-duty-chrome-silicon-buffer-spring
Raven Armament
11-12-11, 19:27
What value? If I'm shooting paper what 'value' does shooting a premium ammo bring me, save perhaps running a little better? But like others in this thread have said, their expensive rifles run the cheaper stuff just fine.
Value is clean, accurate, reliable, consistent for a fair price no matter what the bullets hit. New ammunition is $300 to $400 per case. If you really shoot that much where $300-400 is a deal breaker, get a different hobby or reload your own ammunition. It's not the round count that matters is what each and every round you fire teaches you about you and your weapon.
I fully understand the reasoning of using good ammo when the intent is to shoot things that need shooting...but to use expensive ammo to shoot holes in paper when cheaper stuff is available just makes more sense...especially for those not made of money.
My biggest issue with steel cased ammunition is it doesn't obturate and seal the chamber resulting in blow-by. If it happened with brass ammunition I wouldn't tolerate it, so why introduce that same sub-par event on purpose?
Because we've had this back-and forth over steel-case often enough that we don't need to have it here, that's why.
Fact is, steel-case is what's being used in the rifle in question, steel-case is known to work just fine. Had the primary question been "what do you think of steel-case ammo...," we would not be here in the first place because this would have been shut down ricky-tick.
But, that wasn't the question, it's NOT the go-to answer for the issue even if that had been the question. Hoofbeats more often mean that a herd of horses is approaching, not a herd of zebras, so if you or anybody else can't post anything without trying to sneak in a steel-case pro/con opinion or a "shooter's financial planning" opinion where it doesn't belong....don't post.
Plus, the "extra dollar" portion in the OP settles the question of ammo usage on the part of the owner of the gun in question. The prancing and preening isn't necessary, on anybody's part.
You make a valid point about the brass obturating in the chamber. This is obviously critical with the AR system.
I am sure that the steel does do it, but not as much.
Value is clean, accurate, reliable, consistent for a fair price no matter what the bullets hit. New ammunition is $300 to $400 per case. If you really shoot that much where $300-400 is a deal breaker, get a different hobby or reload your own ammunition. It's not the round count that matters is what each and every round you fire teaches you about you and your weapon.
My biggest issue with steel cased ammunition is it doesn't obturate and seal the chamber resulting in blow-by. If it happened with brass ammunition I wouldn't tolerate it, so why introduce that same sub-par event on purpose?
sinlessorrow
11-12-11, 23:15
You make a valid point about the brass obturating in the chamber. This is obviously critical with the AR system.
I am sure that the steel does do it, but not as much.
thats why it gets dirtier in the chamber.
i use steel since i go through 1000 rounds in 2 months, thats $300 every two months something i cant spend, but i can spend $160 every 2 months on ammo.
steel case is fine, it doesnt hurt your rifle, all it does is get dirtier faster, hope to god you never shoot suppressed itll be 5 times dirtier than shooting steel cased ammo. that said i clean my rifle every 1k rounds and its been fine with 100% steel, occasionally ill use some excellent brass and have never seen any loss of accuracy.
fact is the steel used in the ammo is much softer than the parts in the rifle, from what ive seen wolf is minute of man at 100yrds which is good enough for me to practice with it and learn using it. you do know hornady makes steel cased ammo too? the bullet is great but i guess its crap too
Try a carbine buffer, if it doesn't run with a carbine buffer, return to sender, tell them to send you an upper that runs.
Tula runs fine through my Rock River carbine 16" as well as my Rainier Arms carbine mid-length 16", and my son's BCM carbine 16". We both run H buffers. My RR 20" doesn't care for it though.
This is great steel cased ammo, neither my son nor I have had a misfeed with it in a bit less than 2k rounds.
http://www.weaponsworld.com/mfs-ammunition-223-remington-55-grain-full-metal-jacket-zinc-plated-steel-case-500-rds-per-case.html
Raven Armament
11-13-11, 12:00
Because we've had this back-and forth over steel-case often enough that we don't need to have it here, that's why.
Fact is, steel-case is what's being used in the rifle in question, steel-case is known to work just fine. Had the primary question been "what do you think of steel-case ammo...," we would not be here in the first place because this would have been shut down ricky-tick.
But, that wasn't the question, it's NOT the go-to answer for the issue even if that had been the question. Hoofbeats more often mean that a herd of horses is approaching, not a herd of zebras, so if you or anybody else can't post anything without trying to sneak in a steel-case pro/con opinion or a "shooter's financial planning" opinion where it doesn't belong....don't post.
Plus, the "extra dollar" portion in the OP settles the question of ammo usage on the part of the owner of the gun in question. The prancing and preening isn't necessary, on anybody's part.
PM inbound.
arizonaranchman
11-13-11, 14:31
Switch to a carbine buffer for that ammo and you'll be fine. Use the H buffer for general use, but obviously it's a bit heavy for YOUR rifle when using that ammo for whatever reason. Not a big problem.
To me (and probably most of us) the cost of the rifle is of little concern, whether $1k or $2k for a rifle is not an issue. The cost of FEEDING it in copious quantities is the issue, so cheaper ammo will allow you to shoot it regularly and enable you to get lots of training/hands-on with the weapon. Expensive ammo will lessen this due to cost.
TulAmmo is pretty weak. I've found that guns which can work with Wolf some times have issues with Tula.
My midlength would not run Tula for a darn. It had issues with Wolf (WPA) but worked with Silver Bear and Brass 5.56 and .223.
I would say its the ammo that is giving you problems and to try Tula back in another 1000 rounds of working ammo and see if it works then.
Breadstick
11-13-11, 18:10
Well the op mention it wasn't picking up the round.
But it IS ejecting...so the bolt as enough gas to push it back enough to eject ( how far is it ejecting?), but the spring doesn't have the tension to push the bolt with enough force to strip and push into chamber.......maybe to heavy a buffer in an attempt to slow the bolt? Ease recoil all the while redusing the "relliability" point in types of ammo you shoot now? I dunno....
I like the peice of mind that no matter what ammo type; if it's cheap steel, premeuim steel, milsurp, .223, or NATO my rifle will shoot it without hesitation to ME that's what I call reliable...but that's me.
The last rifle I had did this sometimes....The steel case tend to "stick" (not slide like brass) to each other more so than brass when being stripped, I've in the past, when experiencing similar issue, was wet my fingers with some light oil and load a mag getting the steel a bit slick....ran good...didn't have to tinker with my gun.
Though since I've had this PSA it's cycled everything. I use a standar carbine buffer, spring.
fired casings are shorter than live rounds in the magazine.
Team Chuck Norris
11-13-11, 22:42
..............return to sender, tell them to send you an upper that runs.
Your gun should function with Tula. BCM owes you that.
btw: I have a BCM 14.5 middy with pws and could not be more satisfied. You made an excellent purchase, but something is wrong. BCM will figure it out.
Team Chuck Norris
11-13-11, 22:44
Because we've had this back-and forth over steel-case often enough that we don't need to have it here, that's why.
Fact is, steel-case is what's being used in the rifle in question, steel-case is known to work just fine. Had the primary question been "what do you think of steel-case ammo...," we would not be here in the first place because this would have been shut down ricky-tick.
But, that wasn't the question, it's NOT the go-to answer for the issue even if that had been the question. Hoofbeats more often mean that a herd of horses is approaching, not a herd of zebras, so if you or anybody else can't post anything without trying to sneak in a steel-case pro/con opinion or a "shooter's financial planning" opinion where it doesn't belong....don't post.
Plus, the "extra dollar" portion in the OP settles the question of ammo usage on the part of the owner of the gun in question. The prancing and preening isn't necessary, on anybody's part.
The quoted response is incomprehensible babble and adds nothing of value to the OP or to the thread.
Okay, bright one, enjoy your quiet spot to sit and think about things, like M4C forum rules regarding smartassing the staff, and the penalties one may reap from a lack of both schooling and situational awareness.
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4893/woelw.jpg
to be fair, only the upper is BCM.
The quoted response is incomprehensible babble and adds nothing of value to the OP or to the thread.
Are you on crack?
Littlelebowski
11-14-11, 06:04
The quoted response is incomprehensible babble and adds nothing of value to the OP or to the thread.
Depends on your reading level.
Eurodriver
11-14-11, 07:24
Your gun should function with Tula. BCM owes you that.
btw: I have a BCM 14.5 middy with pws and could not be more satisfied. You made an excellent purchase, but something is wrong. BCM will figure it out.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-14.htm
These 14.5" mid length gas barreled upper receiver groups have been specifically tuned to be a very soft and fast shooting set up. They are a joy to shoot, but please feed it good ammo. With good milspec pressured ammo we have been running H buffers. We do not recommend using lower powered ammo. If using less than milspec pressured ammo, it may be best to run a standard carbine buffer.
Dirtyboy333
11-14-11, 10:07
Eh...that all depends... I used to regularly take my ARs (Colts, DD, & LMT) up to 3-4K rounds fired with just Wolf, or Brown Bear, to include using it in Carbine courses, just kept them generously lubed. I did it to prove that my ARs could do it on a regular basis and to quite the nay sayers of using Wolf/Eastern European ammo. On rare occasions, I'd get a stuck case, but I'd attributed that to a lack of lube in the chamber area. Most that do get stuck cases on a regular basis either have .223 chambers or ARs that aren't tuned properly for shooting a wide variety of ammo.
Several members have valid points about shooting Steel case ammo and I tend to agree:
1. It's just training ammo/fodder for paper punching or steel dinging.
2. It's economical, more training opportunity, and you really to get more bang for your buck.
3. It irritates the ammo snobs at carbine courses when my weapons don't shit the bed while shooting steel ammo. (my personal favorite).;)
I do the same thing. I run all my AR's and Sig 556 on whatever ammo i have at the time. Ive actually never had 1 malf with Tula and i shoot alot of it. Seconds later I'll shoot factory brass and handloaded 75gr. without cleaning a damn thing and they still run perfectly. I go home and put the rifles away, grab them and shoot again next time i'm out. Never any problems
I have found that my DD 14.5" middy runs steel cased fine using an H buffer.
Belmont31R
11-14-11, 18:49
Man what is it lately?
It says right on the damn BCM website to run quality ammunition through the gun. Tula is 3rd rate commie junk.
If you want to run the cheapest junk ammo you can then don't buy guns that are not tuned right off that bat to run low pressure ammunition. Not everyone wants to run that shitty ammo, and don't want the extra stress on parts caused by running full pressure quality ammunition through our guns because ill informed people think their shit should run with the lowest quality Ruskie steel case to real 5.56 stuff. :mad:
Littlelebowski
11-14-11, 19:03
Excellent! Thank you for the constructive advice. Next time I go shoot, I will try this. Sounds like the issue is definitely the lack of gas pressure generated by the ammo.
Do keep us updated.
Thanks for all of the constructive feedback from everyone. To those saying the gun isn't optimized to run the Tula stuff, no shit. It was cheap, so I decided to spend 10 bucks on a couple of boxes. Sue me. I live 10 minutes from PSA, so I buy decent ammo from them 90% of the time.
Next time I shoot, I will swap out the buffers and see what happens, as well as do a short stroke test with both buffers. I'll post back the results. I've had this upper for over a year and didn't just put the rifle together last week, and I still have no complaints with it whatsoever. Ammo snob comments really add very little to the discussion about the technical capabilities of the weapon in its various configurations.
Belmont31R
11-14-11, 19:34
Thanks for all of the constructive feedback from everyone. To those saying the gun isn't optimized to run the Tula stuff, no shit. It was cheap, so I decided to spend 10 bucks on a couple of boxes. Sue me. I live 10 minutes from PSA, so I buy decent ammo from them 90% of the time.
Next time I shoot, I will swap out the buffers and see what happens, as well as do a short stroke test with both buffers. I'll post back the results. I've had this upper for over a year and didn't just put the rifle together last week, and I still have no complaints with it whatsoever. Ammo snob comments really add very little to the discussion about the technical capabilities of the weapon in its various configurations.
My post was to the follow on comments from your OP since you said you learned your lesson right off the bat.
Shooting quality ammunition is not being an "ammo snob". Its shooting the ammunition designed to work in mil spec AR's.
Certain other people have the stupid belief that an AR should work just as well with 3rd rate ammunition as 5.56 pressure stuff.
FWIW I do shoot steel case and have cases of Hornady steel case sitting on the shelf next to me. The 3rd rate ammo is an issue because of inconsistent function NOT simply because its steel case. I have shot a lot of the Hornady stuff including 55FMJ and 75BTHP. Ive not had an issue with it even in my SR15 which is particularly picky. I have shot a few MOA to slightly above MOA 10 shot groups with the BTHP. The drop out to 500 is quite a bit more than 5.56 stuff but it still cycles the gun.
Belmont, my last post was not pointed directly at you; rather to the tone the thread took in general, which wasn't my intent with the original post. FWIW I shoot a fair amount of the Hornady steel case and have never had a problem with it either.
Man what is it lately?
People's broke.
a short stroke test
You clear on the procedure?
You clear on the procedure?[/QUOTE]
Think so. Load a good mag with one round, chamber it, and fire it. If the bolt locks back, it's fine. If the bolt closes forward on an empty chamber after ejecting the case, it's short stroking because the gas pressure didn't generate enough energy to move the bolt all the way to the rear. Am I missing anything?
I have BCMs, LMTs, and DD's that cycle steel case fine. H buffers and clean the chambers regularly. I buzz the chamber and clean it as necessary.
Am I missing anything?
You have the important parts. Fire that round very loosely, "unrestrained" is the term in the mil spec, one handed if your range and musculature will allow it. If the face of the bolt doesn't lock back behind the bolt catch then repeat the test but this time push in on the bolt catch while you fire. Check to make sure that the catch doesn't bind on the carrier prior to this.
Doc Safari
11-15-11, 09:37
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-1...urg-mid-14.htm
Quote:
"These 14.5" mid length gas barreled upper receiver groups have been specifically tuned to be a very soft and fast shooting set up. They are a joy to shoot, but please feed it good ammo. With good milspec pressured ammo we have been running H buffers. We do not recommend using lower powered ammo. If using less than milspec pressured ammo, it may be best to run a standard carbine buffer. "
Thank you for posting that. I knew I had read somewhere, thinking the BCM website, that they suggested not using low powered ammo in a mid-length gas upper without expecting to do some tweaking.
This thread re-emphasizes that whatever ammo you choose, make sure it is reliable in your particular weapon before you rely on it for serious purposes.
Dirtyboy333
11-15-11, 09:57
Man what is it lately?
It says right on the damn BCM website to run quality ammunition through the gun. Tula is 3rd rate commie junk.
If you want to run the cheapest junk ammo you can then don't buy guns that are not tuned right off that bat to run low pressure ammunition. Not everyone wants to run that shitty ammo, and don't want the extra stress on parts caused by running full pressure quality ammunition through our guns because ill informed people think their shit should run with the lowest quality Ruskie steel case to real 5.56 stuff. :mad:
Spoken like a true KAC lover...:p jk
Belmont31R
11-15-11, 10:17
Spoken like a true KAC lover...:p jk
Indeed. I want my guns tuned to run full pressure ammunition not the lowest pressure stuff out there.
If someone wants to run that ammo then buy a gun with an out of spec gas port that will cycle that ammunition.
Expecting a gun to shoot both equally well means the gun is going to be put under more stress and recoil harsher when using 5.56 pressure ammunition. That increases the chance for parts failure and reduces accuracy when shooting quickly as you're fighting excess muzzle rise.
Dirtyboy333
11-15-11, 10:27
Indeed. I want my guns tuned to run full pressure ammunition not the lowest pressure stuff out there.
If someone wants to run that ammo then buy a gun with an out of spec gas port that will cycle that ammunition.
Expecting a gun to shoot both equally well means the gun is going to be put under more stress and recoil harsher when using 5.56 pressure ammunition. That increases the chance for parts failure and reduces accuracy when shooting quickly as you're fighting excess muzzle rise.
I know i was just joking. Hell, i spent days trying to adjust my Sig 556's GP just so it would "smooth it out". I thought it seemed slightly harsher then a different 556 I have shot and i drilled new GP's on the flip side of the valve. It's tuned perfectly now. So, i know what your talking about.
Indeed. I want my guns tuned to run full pressure ammunition not the lowest pressure stuff out there.
If someone wants to run that ammo then buy a gun with an out of spec gas port that will cycle that ammunition.
Expecting a gun to shoot both equally well means the gun is going to be put under more stress and recoil harsher when using 5.56 pressure ammunition. That increases the chance for parts failure and reduces accuracy when shooting quickly as you're fighting excess muzzle rise.
So am I to assume that all of my AR's are out of spec because they run equally well with both Tula and 5.56??
Belmont31R
11-15-11, 10:39
I know i was just joking. Hell, i spent days trying to adjust my Sig 556's GP just so it would "smooth it out". I thought it seemed slightly harsher then a different 556 I have shot and i drilled new GP's on the flip side of the valve. It's tuned perfectly now. So, i know what your talking about.
Shoulda put a smiley in my post...:cool:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.