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Miroku
11-11-11, 18:36
I've been looking into getting a SA M1A for a while now, and I'd like to get one that is as accurate as possible. Springfield doesn't list the out-of-the-box accuracy potential of their rifles, so I'll simplify my question and ask: comparing an M1A Standard, M1A Super Match, and the M21 Tactical, how do they compare in the accuracy department? (Out-of box, and assuming I have paired it with optimal ammunition.) Thanks for the info, all.

broylz
11-11-11, 22:33
ive had a loaded and a scout and have been able to keep all shots on a 4" circle at 200 with surplus ball ammo on a good day.

are you going to be shooting irons or mount optics?

also what is your budget looking like? a build may be a better option to get you what you want.

Miroku
11-12-11, 18:40
are you going to be shooting irons or mount optics?

also what is your budget looking like? a build may be a better option to get you what you want.

To answer your first question, I am planning on putting an optic on it, although I'm not sure if I want a scope or something like an ACOG.

As for your second, whatever I ultimately decide on, I will save what it costs. I usually wait until tax time to go and buy something, as I take extra out of state and federal every paycheck, so my refund is enough to splurge on a pricey toy. Even if that wasn't the case, I'd rather save up for a high-quality product and wait a bit than settle for what I can afford right now.

broylz
11-12-11, 23:43
if i were to save for quality and wanted to scope it, i would get one from LRB arms and not SAI. LRB has a m25 receiver that has a built in scope mounting solution to the original receiver. their stuff is the top notch in m14s.

acogs are usually pretty tall on a M14 as they were designed for flattop AR type weapons. that doesnt mean it cant be done as it has. there is a dpecific mount from SEI or Sadlak - cant remember which, maybe both - that extends rearward further to allow the eye relief on the acog to be correct.

another option would be to get a standard receiver like one from SAI, and then go with something like a Troy battle rail. it extends rearward from the gas block to the rear sight. the Troy rail replaces the rear sight.

If you want to retain irons like i would, i would use a VLTOR rail. this one replaces the top handguard as well but only extends back to the stipper clip guide. VLTOR keeps promising to release one on their own as a newer version and you may be able to call them to get it. the current VLTOR is only offered through SAI custom shop or you can buy it on their SOCOM and a certain Loaded model.

Miroku
11-13-11, 13:09
Any thoughts on Fulton Armory?

broylz
11-13-11, 16:33
Fulton is generally thought of as pretty decent but they have had issues with soft bolts. the second choice to LRB imho would be 762mmfirearms.com

they are a newer copany but seem to have their stuff together now. they offer cheaper cast receivers like SAI and forged like the originals.

the cheapest option if you want forged would be to get a polytech m14s and then eventually replace the bolt in it as they have also had soft bolt issues. you can build it as you can with upgrading to National Match specs. if you want a USGI style.

sff70
11-23-11, 12:15
I owned a M1A NM many years ago and while I can't exactly remember what it did for accuracy (although I remember it was NOT sub moa with Fed 168 match, or handloads with 168 SMKs), here are a few things I remember about M1As.

For accuracy, you want a glass bedded model. NM, SM, etc. Not the basic. And don't take the action out of the stock more often than you absolutely have to. It degrades the bedding.

There are many scope mounts avilable, many of which are garbage. Ensure you get a good one.

Any scope you use (apart from a scout type scope) will be very high above the bore, so you want to use a cheekpiece to align your eye with the scope, and you may need to play with it to get it right. I used a lace-on type from Turner saddlery.

M1As are hard on brass. Something to know if you reload.

You'll also want to buy all the extras it takes to properly clean a M1A (bore guide/crown protector, block to keep the bolt locked back, tools to clean the gas cylinder, chamber brush, etc).

Fulton armory and Creedmoor sports are good places to buy M1A stuff.

Good luck

Sgt_Gold
11-28-11, 22:53
I've been looking into getting a SA M1A for a while now, and I'd like to get one that is as accurate as possible. Springfield doesn't list the out-of-the-box accuracy potential of their rifles, so I'll simplify my question and ask: comparing an M1A Standard, M1A Super Match, and the M21 Tactical, how do they compare in the accuracy department? (Out-of box, and assuming I have paired it with optimal ammunition.) Thanks for the info, all.

SA doesn't build with enough precision and consistency to guarantee a set level of accuracy. If you have the budget it's probably a better bet to just buy a receiver, send it out to a known M14 builder, and write a check. If I were buying a factory rifle I'd go with the standard and try hand loading for accuracy. There are some simple accuracy mods you can do on a base level rifle that have the potential to really tighten up your groups without spending $2k or more on a match ready rifle.

m1a_scoutguy
11-28-11, 23:48
To answer your first question, I am planning on putting an optic on it, although I'm not sure if I want a scope or something like an ACOG.

As for your second, whatever I ultimately decide on, I will save what it costs. I usually wait until tax time to go and buy something, as I take extra out of state and federal every paycheck, so my refund is enough to splurge on a pricey toy. Even if that wasn't the case, I'd rather save up for a high-quality product and wait a bit than settle for what I can afford right now.

Scratch the ACOG,,:( for the M1a,,they just don't seem to fit the rifle that well,,they are a AR thing. A quality Scope will go a Long ways to getting your rds where ya want !! I have a buddy that has a Springer NM,,great rifle,,with Irons,,he can get a Solid 1.5 Inch Group with Quality Ammo,,FGM,,or Reloads with Match bullets !! I also have a NM M1a,,,it is a Fulton with a Krieger Hvy BBL,,great rifle,,,and I have shot a Inch Group and under when I had a scope on it. But the most important thing to remember about a M1a,,is that it is NOT a Bolt Action rifle & you will not (Normally) get Bolt Action accuracy !! My choice would be check out LRB,,great bunch of guys and a quality rifle,,use a Quality BBL and it will go a long ways in getting what ya want !! Here is another Top Shelf M1a guy to check out,,Jon Wolfe,,awesome guy,,he has desaigned his own Barrels and is a Top Notch Rifle Smith,,ya really can't go wrong. Get a hold of him and see what he can do for ya,,it would probably be a faster turn around time than LRB,,they are great,,,but normally waaaaaay behind !! Here is a link to Jons website,,http://www.shop.m-14parts.com/Wolfe-Modified-Medium-Weight-Fluted-185-WMMWF.htm Keep me posted on how ya make out !!!

Dienekes
11-30-11, 19:28
I have an ACOG TA-33 3 x 30) on my M1A rifle. Used the SEI mount with the trough specifically intended for them, which lowers the optic considerably. There is still a need for a cheek piece to raise my head about 3/8" of an inch; if I do any more I will probably put a Karsten kydex riser on it.

I am very happy with an ACOG on my M4gery, although it is a 1.5X compact on the handle. I am much less certain that it is right for me on the M1A. Another major aspect for me is that while the the scope mount and ACOG only add about one pound to the weapon, the total weight loaded with sling comes out to a bit over thirteen pounds. It feels like a BAR now, and is NOT handy any more.

I think the M1A is a great rifle with irons if you have the eyesight to pull it off. I don't any more. Putting glass on it makes the rifle into something else (unless it only gets shot off a bench, which to me is not real shooting).

My next move will probably be to downsize to a good basic bolt rifle in .30 caliber with an old K6 Weaver, and to put a bipod up front. That will put the total loaded weight to around 8 1/2 pounds and give me an optic more suited to the .30 caliber than the 3X ACOG.

30 years ago I would just hump the hefty M1A and call it good. Now I cheat every chance I get...:lazy2:

caelumatra
12-01-11, 10:08
I hate to be "that guy" to the OP but have you considered getting an AR308 rifle instead? I'm not trolling.

The accuracy, depending on the brand of course, is very good.
The gun is designed for a scope so you're not getting specialized parts that may or may not work.
The gun is designed for a scope so you're not getting specialized parts that may or may not work the way you want.
Manual of arms is the same as a regular AR
Better customization
AR308 can be lighter, where as the M1A is as much as it weighs because there is little you can do to reduce its weight.
Reliability. I have a Mega MaTen with a Noveske barrel and it hasn't give me any problems. My good friend and shooting partner has an SA M1A. I don't think there has been a time we've taken it out and it hasn't had some sort of malfunction. If it's not the mags (which are more expensive than 308 pmags BTW) its most recently been the firing pin (or the bolt...its been a few months since we've been shooting...$$$...so I cant remember its latest fault) or its his rear sight getting shaken off.


IMO, the only reason I would get an M1A is for a nostalgia, or because it is just SUCH a beautiful gun, or to put an EBR stock on it. But then that makes it, I think, like 3 pounds heavier. But damn if they aren't sexy guns!

Again, I'm not trolling or trying to start an argument, and if the OP wants an M1A just because, then that's fine. I understand. I'm just offering insight from someone who's used an M1A (Not a lot, admittedly. Couldn't. It kept ****ing up) and saw it being used a good deal and then decided to build an AR308 after seeing the M1A perform


In a perfect world I'd build one for fun though. They're so great looking

duece71
12-01-11, 12:44
I have a NM SA M1A. It sits in the safe collecting dust :(. I have bought an LMT .308 MWS and it gets much more play than the M1a. Mine has the irons on it and I have researched scope options but I either didn't have the cash or the options were not that great. A great rifle, but more for nostalgia than serious use.

lebowski
12-01-11, 12:54
I have a NM SA M1A. It sits in the safe collecting dust :(. I have bought an LMT .308 MWS and it gets much more play than the M1a. Mine has the irons on it and I have researched scope options but I either didn't have the cash or the options were not that great. A great rifle, but more for nostalgia than serious use.

I'm in the same camp. I have a Springfield National Match M1A ... it's a real nice gun, and it's gorgeous IMO, but it sits in the safe. I just don't find myself shooting it very often.

I doubt I'll sell it simply because I don't really need the cash and I do think it's a cool/nostalgic gun, but I doubt I'll ever shoot it often. Mine is also irons only.

5pins
12-01-11, 19:24
Here is an article about wringing out the accuracy out of an M1A. For about 150 bucks this guy cut his groups from around 5in to 1in.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/affordable_accuracy.htm

OldState
12-01-11, 20:11
The m1a/m14 was used for years in CMP and High Power rifle competition. In the 1990's the Army required it's rifle teams to use the current issue weapon, the m16. Since then the AR platform has dominated but many still use the m1a.

There is a tremendous knowledge base for making these rifles accurate. I would search competition rifle forums and ask for advice there.

m1a_scoutguy
12-02-11, 00:38
Lots of good info,,the link to the Info about tunning your M1a is cool,,I had not seen that before !!! Hopefully the OP will take some of this info and put it to good use !!! I fully understand the "short" comings of the M1a,,like I said it is NOT a Bolt gun. I also know that most AR10 (308) rilfes are more accurate and depending on the make & model can be more reliable,,,,,"BUT" for us guys that just love the Ole girl,,its hard to change,,,LOL !!! I love my AR's (223/556) but when it comes to 308,,its gotta be Wood & Steel for me !!! ;) I have a buddy that built a AR10,,Noveske BBL,,MA-Ten Upper,,Lower,,all quality parts and it is a killer accurate rifle & I love it when he lets me shoot & handle it,,it is Bad-Ass for sure,,,but I always love picking up my NM M1a again !!! Anyways,,I hope the OP gets his rifle in order and keeps us informed about how he makes out !!! :D

ghost762
12-02-11, 01:47
If you do get one go for a M21 or a M25

dfclin073
12-06-11, 22:43
Another good source for M1A information is http://m14forum.com/

Shabazz
12-11-11, 08:39
I've been looking into getting a SA M1A for a while now,.

Please don't. I owned 5 and they all had problems after a while. The quality is just not there. Get a proper M14, such as from Fulton Armory (starting at $2700) or others who make a genuine milspec M14.

wetidlerjr
12-11-11, 12:38
I've been looking into getting a SA M1A for a while now...



Please don't. I owned 5 and they all had problems after a while. The quality is just not there. Get a proper M14, such as from Fulton Armory (starting at $2700) or others who make a genuine milspec M14.


Not all SA M1As have problems (even after awhile) as mine has been trouble free in the ten years I have owned it. I must admit that I replaced all SA parts (except receiver, of course) with USGI but it wasn't because of any failure of the SA parts. YMMV :cool:

E4for2
12-11-11, 14:11
I gave up on my M1A's also-too much money to get them to shoot
well-also neither liked the load the other one did--got a deal on a
Rem sr-25 in 308 and the first string out went in under 1"--
after messing around with the M1A's for a long time--scope mounts-
finding a load they liked--flash hiders--stock pads--Mags--I'm Happy !!

Gallo Pazzesco
12-13-11, 22:35
I know I love mine ... the darker one is an Art Cavanaugh build on an Armscorp M21 receiver, TRW trigger, etc., etc.:

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz196/itsgreat2balive/Mobile%20Uploads/utf-8BSU1HMDAwMjAtMjAwOTA5MTktMDAwO.jpg

KYPD
12-13-11, 23:14
Please don't. I owned 5 and they all had problems after a while. The quality is just not there.

My Springfield Armory M1A had a chamber as rough as Pelosi's tits, leaving 1/32" deep rings on ejected brass, so rough it failed to eject occasionally. SA replaced the barrel for free, but the replacement was almost as bad. Poor quality. Quality issues aside, even a good quality M1A is very expensive to make accurate and a bitch to keep accurate. Money. Rat hole.

One Shot
12-21-11, 17:41
I've owned 2 M-1A rifles and used their cousin, an XM-21 sniper rifle, in Viet Nam. I got sub-MOA with all 3 rifles and at 100 yards it was not unusual for my 3, 4 or 5 round shot group to touch or cloverleaf. The key to making any of the M-14 style rifles work well is good training, good ammo, a decent scope and a good shooter. Why buy a high quality rifle and then use cheap surplus ammo through it? Once you get used to using a good rifle with good ammo, then you will see how good your groups can become. Once you get used to your rifle, ammo and shooting techniques, it is not uncommon to make 900 meter shots on silhouette targets over and over.

active shooter
12-31-11, 10:45
I've owned a National match now for about ten years. I use it only for shooting the national matches.
Bedded, with match sights it is VERY possible to hold the x ring out to 300, and with practice, the x ring can be done @ 600.
You are NOT going to achieve this with ball ammo, milsurp ammo, or hunting ammo. It's going to take load development, and practice.

My nat match came with a 1/10 stainless barrel, and nat match flash hider.
I have replaced the barrel with a Douglas, only because the factory barrel was shot out to the point accuracy was dropping off.

Also, a tight sling, the proper sling, will work wonders. I'm a fan of Turner. When it got all stretched out, it just got downgraded to the garand.

Jambi
12-31-11, 11:05
FWIW, this '87 Standard has been tried and true.
Holding 1/2 MOA running Black Hills.

mseanmc
01-07-12, 10:31
If you are set on the M-14 platform and have the money and patience, go with the LRB receiver with the integral scope rail and have them barrel it. Then drop your action into a JAE Gen 3 stock which eliminates the need for bedding and gives you a solid adjustable cheek riser so you can get a proper setup behind the scope. The stock will also have attachment points for a bipod, etc.

If you go this route you will be getting about as close to a precision rig as you can without going full out custom. The two drawbacks (outside of cost) is that this configuration will result in a heavy setup which will not be particularly fun to run around with if that is your intended purpose, and your wait time will likely be around a year from the time you order the stock. I ordered mine Feb of 2011 and still don't have it.

Best of luck with whatever you decide on doing.

tostado22
01-21-12, 19:15
With a little know-how and work the M14 platform can be extremely accurate.

168gr FGMM
http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp291/para_packer/IMG_1426.jpg

Mine is a LRB M25. I have seen SA match guns do very well (also for less money than I have in my M25 :) ) but the LRB is worth every penny.

It comes down to how much work you want to put in and how you prefer the M1A over the M16 and vice versa. I prefer the looks, feel and nostalgia of the M14 platform myself but both can be very reliable and accurate.

One Shot
01-22-12, 05:26
Another thing is to get the right scope for your rifle. Any scope you get should have a range finder element in it and a ballistic cam for the round you plan to shoot. In other words, your scope should be specifically set up for .308 Winchester if you are shooting .308 Winchester ammo.

Next thing you need to do is get a proper zero for your scope, rifle, ammo and your eyesight. Once you have the zero right, for sniping we would zero at 300 meters in Nam, then you practice shooting different distances and learn where to place your cross hairs for wind, variable distances to the target and so on.

To better explain this, google "Leatherwood Scope Systems." That was the type of scope system we used in Viet Nam for sniping purposes. With lots of practice and good training, you can become so darned accurate it will scare you.

Miroku
01-22-12, 20:35
I was just looking for an accurate semi-auto .308 in a tried and true platform. I kept going back to the M1A.

SteveS
02-15-12, 21:24
I had a middle 90s Springfield M1a with all TRW parts and a SAK barrel which with 168 GN match bullets and no special load workup would put 5 rounds in the mostly in the x ring from the bench with the factory sights. Todays Springfield M1a s aren't very well made quality and parts wise. The LRBs are very impressive though as I watched guys at the range shoot them. The LRBs cost more but from what I have seen and how the LRBs are built and the quality of the parts in them, they are a really good bargain for what you get.

Alaskapopo
02-15-12, 21:31
I had a middle 90s Springfield M1a with all TRW parts and a SAK barrel which with 168 GN match bullets and no special load workup would put 5 rounds in the mostly in the x ring from the bench with the factory sights. Todays Springfield M1a s aren't very well made quality and parts wise. The LRBs are very impressive though as I watched guys at the range shoot them. The LRBs cost more but from what I have seen and how the LRBs are built and the quality of the parts in them, they are a really good bargain for what you get.

How bad are the new Springfields? I heard they are starting to be hit or miss? I was contemplating getting a national match model is the reason I was asking.
Pat

domestique
03-02-12, 03:46
Just to echo some others:

I have an LRB M25 (18" medium weight barrel, 1/11 twist) that I dropped into a Sage EBR Mod 1 stock. With FGMM 168 grain I can get sub 1 MOA 5-shot groups all day long when I do my part (I average around 0.6-0.8" groups. With mil-surplus I am happy with 1.5-2.5" groups (German DAG and British Radway green shoot the best in my rifle).

Pros: M14s are just plain sexy. The recoil is soo light with all the weight behind it.
Cons: HEAVY! With the medium weight barrel and Sage stock, she is a beast.

Edit: The biggest tip: find ammo that works with your M14. Winchester 7.62 shoots awful in my M14 (3" groups!), but cheap German mil-surplus shoots 1.5" and Federal match shoots sub-moa... also realize that a gas gun (especially the M14) platform will never be as accurate as a bolt gun unless you are willing to invest a lot of money into the gas platform.

PURPLEBELT
03-04-12, 20:14
Took my Springfield M1A out to the range two weeks ago. Hit 17/20 shots on steel with open sights at 400yds. Extremely accurate rifle. Wish my 52 year old eyes were.

militarymoron
03-05-12, 10:17
Took my Springfield M1A out to the range two weeks ago. Hit 17/20 shots on steel with open sights at 400yds. Extremely accurate rifle. Wish my 52 year old eyes were.

what size steel?

PURPLEBELT
03-05-12, 17:51
Don't know. Will check with the guys at the range. Going out this friday to zero my Aimpoint/Eotech set up.

Mauser KAR98K
05-08-12, 17:24
Drudging this topic up due that I am looking at a M1A in general for a match platform. I have been shooting the big daddy for a number of years now (M1D on a '43 receiver) and I know the inside and outs of the Garand system like the back of my hand--hey what, where did that mole come from.

For a college guy like me who can't spend the gagzooks money a Fulton or LRB costs, are the SA's (new ones particularly) good to compete with in the national match circuit, and can I drop in better parts and components to make it better.

I'm currently looking into getting a SA loaded rifle sometime in a few months, but I am also wondering if there is a M-14 platform/manufacture that can build a better weapon at the same price point (not going over $1,800, and I really should not even approach that number)?

I reload mostly my own match ammo, currently I am about to try out some Hornady 155gr A-Max rounds in about two weeks for the M1. The main reason I am wanting to move the M-14/M1A platform is because 30.06 ammo on the shelf is become more expensive and I cannot find a single FMJ load to plink at short ranges with while I practice my form (50 to 100 yards). All the 30.cal stuff I am finding locally are all hunting rounds with unknown powder loads, and too much energy for my weapon. Long time ago I found that loading my match ammo for 168grs Seirra HPBT with over 50grs of IMR 4064 was a bit excessive and damaging to my M1's components, minus the receiver.

However, I can get factory FMJ .308 ammo all day long. Therefor, the change I am looking to commit to.