View Full Version : It looks like Daniel Defense is getting into the handgun business.
badassglock
11-12-11, 23:45
seen a news segment on tv and the anchor said that Daniel Dfense is getting into the handgun business by 2015. lord I hope this it true. PLEASE let it be a 1911 style handgun
watch video tell the end.
http://www.wtoc.com/story/16009047/made-at-home-daniel-defense
lethal dose
11-12-11, 23:47
i'm thinking accessories.
2015....I will have laser beam firearm by that time. lol
lord I hope this it true. PLEASE let it be a 1911 style handgun
Not sure if this belongs int the AR-GD but... Really? Why the phuck do we need another obsolete 1911-style pistol on the market?
maybe a carbon fiber 15rd 1911? :big_boss:
Not sure if this belongs int the AR-GD but... Really? Why the phuck do we need another obsolete 1911-style pistol on the market?
Seconded. The handgun market needs yet another 1911 like it needs a hole in the head. How about some innovation and steps forward?
give us some double stack 1911's or .45's! :dance3: not enough of those around
Magic_Salad0892
11-13-11, 06:24
Give us a polymer framed 9x19mm pistol that is about G19 sized, that holds at least 15 rounds, and is more accurate than a HK, more durable than an HK, and lighter than a Glock.
With factory threaded barrels.
Otherwise it will be worthless.
Woohoo!!!! yet another 1911.........yawn...:suicide:
Guns-up.50
11-13-11, 08:41
Neat I guess but for polymer I will stick to my glocks and as far as 1911s go colts, I hope its just accessories but you never know.
They make great rifles thery shoud stick to that, maybe produce more so they can sell uppers and lowers seperate again?
Hopefully they actually do something innovative. Maybe a modular pistol frame that can be modified to go from hot 10mm thru .22lr and everything in the middle.
Give us a polymer framed 9x19mm pistol that is about G19 sized, that holds at least 15 rounds, and is more accurate than a HK, more durable than an HK, and lighter than a Glock.
With factory threaded barrels.
Otherwise it will be worthless.
Sounds right!
Not sure if this belongs int the AR-GD but... Really? Why the phuck do we need another obsolete 1911-style pistol on the market?
Ditto.
Not sure if this belongs int the AR-GD but... Really? Why the phuck do we need another obsolete 1911-style pistol on the market?
+1,000,000
There it is.
Give us a polymer framed 9x19mm pistol that is about G19 sized, that holds at least 15 rounds, and is more accurate than a HK, more durable than an HK, and lighter than a Glock.
With factory threaded barrels.
Otherwise it will be worthless.
i just have one question.....Take AMEX? :D
Give us a polymer framed 9x19mm pistol that is about G19 sized, that holds at least 15 rounds, and is more accurate than a HK, more durable than an HK, and lighter than a Glock.
With factory threaded barrels.
Otherwise it will be worthless.
Yeap. Exactly.
seen a news segment on tv and the anchor said that Daniel Dfense is getting into the handgun business by 2015. lord I hope this it true. PLEASE let it be a 1911 style handgun
watch video tell the end.
http://www.wtoc.com/story/16009047/made-at-home-daniel-defense
Any new option that can move the ball with higher quality, better reliability and shootability and for lower prices is always welcome. 1911 or otherwise.
threeheadeddog
11-13-11, 11:36
Personally, I would love to see someone do a modern aluminum framed 9mm with a hammer. Basically a modern Sig/CZ. I could really go for a CZ with an HK style rear decocker...
What ever they make, I hope it is as good a quality as their ARs. For too long the only decent handguns on the market have been made by the major players. Hopefully smaller operations like DD can produce pistols as good as the top players to get companies like Sig Sauer thinking about quality controls.
GeorgiaBoy
11-13-11, 12:37
Unless I have read it wrong, I don't think this means that DD is actually going to start PRODUCING handguns. I see it being more accessories and stuff. I could be wrong though.
I'd be interested if it is a 1911 project led by Vickers.
I wonder if DD will ask RRA why they got out of the 1911 business?
:rolleyes:
If their handgun is anywhere near their rifles in terms of quality, I would be in.
Give us a polymer framed 9x19mm pistol that is about G19 sized, that holds at least 15 rounds, and is more accurate than a HK, more durable than an HK, and lighter than a Glock.
With factory threaded barrels.
Otherwise it will be worthless.
And a better trigger than any of the above.
Okie John
Not sure if this belongs int the AR-GD but... Really? Why the phuck do we need another obsolete 1911-style pistol on the market?
that was my thought too.. "please not a 1911"
I dunno what i'd like to see in the handgun market.. I honestly feel like at the moment glock, s&w and HK are filling all the voids pretty nicely....
i mean there's the constant cries for a single stack 9mm, but it seems that most of the ones that come out end up somewhat hated.
Give us a polymer framed 9x19mm pistol that is about G19 sized, that holds at least 15 rounds, and is more accurate than a HK, more durable than an HK, and lighter than a Glock.
With factory threaded barrels.
Otherwise it will be worthless.
And a better trigger than any of the above.
Okie John
Magic_Salad0892
11-13-11, 15:20
And a better trigger than any of the above.
Okie John
I think a Glock trigger is just about perfect for a combat pistol, IMHO.
I'd take it over a 1911 trigger for a carry/combat gun any day, and HK LEM is very, very usable.
So I'd have to say a good trigger like that would just be about perfect.
If it is accessories it would probably be a matter of when they go into full handguns.
Would be nice to have them make handguns that give a high quality option for those niche rolls that have few good options but tons of trash. Something like a single stack 9MM pocket pistol, alternative revolver to S&W J-frames, etc.
If going in the compact and full sized semi-auto area then hopefully its something so all around solid for reasonable $$$ that pumps fresh blood in and makes other manufactures work that much harder for better products.
I'd be interested if it is a 1911 project led by Vickers.
yeeyow that is some good connecting the dots maybe right there. They would have to get that right and they would sell a freight car full of them.
dirt_diver
11-13-11, 19:31
IMHO I think Mr Vickers involvement would make this very appealing.
yeeyow that is some good connecting the dots maybe right there. They would have to get that right and they would sell a freight car full of them.
I'd say that his involvement is reasonably possible given his role in the HK45 and the Nighthawk / Vickers 1911 signature gun.
A semi-custom Vickers / DD 1911 that is spec'ed similar to a Springfield Pro in terms of quality and attention to detail for under $1800 would be very nice.
I think a Glock trigger is just about perfect for a combat pistol, IMHO.
I'd take it over a 1911 trigger for a carry/combat gun any day, and HK LEM is very, very usable.
So I'd have to say a good trigger like that would just be about perfect.
I agree about Glock trigger's.
misanthropist
11-13-11, 22:21
That is my take as well...although by the time it gets to Canada it'll be $3500.
But although it is not clear to me exactly what DD intends to build, it seems like the obvious conclusion that I would enjoy jumping to is that Larry Vickers is possibly advising them on a production 1911.
That would be appealing to me. There is no way a relatively small outfit like DD is going to replace Glock and I doubt they would try. They certainly could market a niche gun, though, and there is no niche gun like a nice 1911.
warpedcamshaft
11-13-11, 22:40
Perhaps they are talking about an AR15 based pistol? Or possibly pistol accessories?
I would be surprised if they jumped into the saturated 1911 market, but it would be interesting to see.
I'd be interested if it is a 1911 project led by Vickers.
+1
You beat me to it, if it's anything 1911 related, i would hope LAV has a hand in it.
Not sure if this belongs int the AR-GD but... Really? Why the phuck do we need another obsolete 1911-style pistol on the market?
My thoughts exactly
1911 1911 1911 blah blah blah, get over it and move on to something new and innovative for a change instead of another "me too" 1911
I would be all about another 1911, especially if Vickers is involved. Then I would have a true pair. BTW there is a reason why the 1911 has been around for 100 years and is still being used every day.
Not sure if this belongs int the AR-GD but... Really? Why the phuck do we need another obsolete 1911-style pistol on the market?
.45acp Tack Drivers with the best trigger in the game are obsolete?
go back to posting on glocktalk bro.
Whatever DD makes, if it's anything like the quality of their rifles and rails - they'll be just fine. Probably just going to be accessories though (at first).
An affordable, reliable 1911 around $800 would be great.
Another $1500+ 1911...no thanks.
1911s are cool, but we don't need another rehash of that.
However, why not take the 1911 concept and modernize it? Think single action - crisp trigger out of the box, thumb safety, polymer frame, steel double stack magazine, all ambi and with less parts.... Don't care id striker or hammer fired.
seen a news segment on tv and the anchor said that Daniel Dfense is getting into the handgun business by 2015. lord I hope this it true. PLEASE let it be a 1911 style handgun
watch video tell the end.
http://www.wtoc.com/story/16009047/made-at-home-daniel-defense
Yeah, because we all know the thing we need most is another freaking 1911...:rolleyes:
offshorebear
11-14-11, 20:54
Probably sights, mag releases, barrels etc.
Freerunner
11-15-11, 12:34
Give us a polymer framed 9x19mm pistol that is about G19 sized, that holds at least 15 rounds, and is more accurate than a HK, more durable than an HK, and lighter than a Glock.
With factory threaded barrels.
Otherwise it will be worthless.
I couldn't agree with you more. They also need to make the pistol cheaper than a Glock and come with night sights already installed.
Cheaper than a Glock with all that, and for less $$...?
Impossible.
Magic_Salad0892
11-15-11, 17:05
Glocks are cheaper than shit. If they can keep it under $700 they'll have a winner.
They should make a laser pistol that also can lock onto and throw cars.
"Well officer, I was getting mugged so I pulled out my Daniel Defense Uberblaster and threw that parked Volvo into the guy... that's part of him over there... and there..."
Magic_Salad0892
11-15-11, 17:57
They should make a laser pistol that also can lock onto and throw cars.
"Well officer, I was getting mugged so I pulled out my Daniel Defense Uberblaster and threw that parked Volvo into the guy... that's part of him over there... and there..."
With gun laws getting more lenient, and the criminals roaming the streets with AK-47s, then this may be a reasonable means of self defense.
Littlelebowski
11-15-11, 18:15
.45acp Tack Drivers with the best trigger in the game are obsolete?
go back to posting on glocktalk bro.
This isn't 1911forum, bro.
They should make a laser pistol that also can lock onto and throw cars.
"Well officer, I was getting mugged so I pulled out my Daniel Defense Uberblaster and threw that parked Volvo into the guy... that's part of him over there... and there..."
ROFLMAO
If it was a wish list - although I'm fond of Glock triggers, I think there's a place for G19 sized pistol, reliable, with a smooth DA type trigger like I hear the light LEM is, or somewhat like Kahrs or that weird DB9 micro that might be a POS but's trigger (the one I handled) was impressive. Oh and the gun has to actually sell for about $500.
1911s are cool, but we don't need another rehash of that.
However, why not take the 1911 concept and modernize it? Think single action - crisp trigger out of the box, thumb safety, polymer frame, steel double stack magazine, all ambi and with less parts.... Don't care id striker or hammer fired.
This.
Magic_Salad0892
11-15-11, 21:57
1911s are cool, but we don't need another rehash of that.
However, why not take the 1911 concept and modernize it? Think single action - crisp trigger out of the box, thumb safety, polymer frame, steel double stack magazine, all ambi and with less parts.... Don't care id striker or hammer fired.
They did. It's called HK P30 V1, and HK45 V1.
They did. It's called HK P30 V1, and HK45 V1.
Im sure by "crisp trigger", he didn't have an HK trigger action in mind. More like a Glock or P30 with a 1911 type trigger.
Magic_Salad0892
11-16-11, 00:29
Im sure by "crisp trigger", he didn't have an HK trigger action in mind. More like a Glock or P30 with a 1911 type trigger.
In that case. M&P .45 with APEX FSS trigger, and ambi safety.
What he described is NOT a 1911.
Would dd ever make their own gun or would they do something like make a raceframe for a different platform?
I feel like they have a lot of influence from larry vickers who is involved in hk and glock handguns.
Will be interesting to see this all unfold
Give us a polymer framed 9x19mm pistol that is about G19 sized, that holds at least 15 rounds, and is more accurate than a HK, more durable than an HK, and lighter than a Glock.So, you want a G19C with a grip reduction?
Littlelebowski
11-16-11, 11:01
So, you want a G19C with a grip reduction?
Categorically disagree. Also, what does a 19C do that has anything to do with what he stated?
SWATcop556
11-16-11, 11:30
.45acp Tack Drivers with the best trigger in the game are obsolete?
go back to posting on glocktalk bro.
I suggest that you check the attitude, bro. Or you can find yourself going back to posting on another forum, involuntarily.
theblackknight
11-16-11, 11:30
In that case. M&P .45 with APEX FSS trigger, and ambi safety.
What he described is NOT a 1911.
Id buy that if it competitivly priced ie 600 $.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Give us a polymer framed 9x19mm pistol that is about G19 sized, that holds at least 15 rounds, and is more accurate than a HK, more durable than an HK, and lighter than a Glock.So, you want a G19C with a grip reduction?Categorically disagree. Also, what does a 19C do that has anything to do with what he stated?It's a 15-round, polymer-framed 9mm that's exactly the size of a G19. The ported slide -- even with a solid G19 barrel in it -- would make it a hair lighter than a regular G19... as would a grip reduction. That's five of the seven stated criteria right there. Do whatever you need to do with the HK accuracy/durability comparisons.
SWATcop556
11-16-11, 11:42
I'm a big fan of the M&P with the Apex upgrades (until a recent dept. policy change, that was what I carried for work) but I cringe at having to dump $200+ into a gun out of the box just to get it to feel right to me. The M&P with the Apex parts from the factory at around the retail price would fit the bill nicely.
I'll be interested to see what DD brings to the table.
FWIW I have a fondness in my heart and always will for the 1911 but there are better pistols out there for use and abuse combat/duty/carry weapons. I'm not spending $3k+ on a 1911 that is 100% reliable just so I can say I carry a 1911.
If Mr. Vickers is involved then I would take another look at it but so far production 1911's have been lack-lucter at best.
Magic_Salad0892
11-16-11, 13:36
I'm a big fan of the M&P with the Apex upgrades (until a recent dept. policy change, that was what I carried for work) but I cringe at having to dump $200+ into a gun out of the box just to get it to feel right to me. The M&P with the Apex parts from the factory at around the retail price would fit the bill nicely.
I'll be interested to see what DD brings to the table.
FWIW I have a fondness in my heart and always will for the 1911 but there are better pistols out there for use and abuse combat/duty/carry weapons. I'm not spending $3k+ on a 1911 that is 100% reliable just so I can say I carry a 1911.
If Mr. Vickers is involved then I would take another look at it but so far production 1911's have been lack-lucter at best.
IMHO, for LEO a single stack, steel, maintenance intensive, .45 ACP gun that costs $800+ doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
IMHO, in any role it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Ergonomically, I think that Gen4 G19, and M&P guns are better.
Magic_Salad0892
11-16-11, 13:44
It's a 15-round, polymer-framed 9mm that's exactly the size of a G19. The ported slide -- even with a solid G19 barrel in it -- would make it a hair lighter than a regular G19... as would a grip reduction. That's five of the seven stated criteria right there. Do whatever you need to do with the HK accuracy/durability comparisons.
You may be right, and IMHO I've considered having a G19 slide milled out like a G17L, and having forward cocking serrations put in, having it re-melonited, and wearing it with a threaded barrel like you said. (I still consider doing this to a G19RTF2 I have.) However, I think Grip reductions are definetely not for me.
But the reduction in weight with a G19C barrel is less than an ounce. The reduction in weight with a grip reduction is less than an ounce, as well.
I'm thinking more along the lines of the FNH Five-SeveN, which weighs 21 oz. unloaded. And that's a full size pistol.
1911's look good, are fun to shoot, and can be made into great bullseye competition guns. I just can't get around their weight and low capacity to justify choosing a 1911 over a modern polymer pistol for everday carry and use.
A totally new handgun design would be great.
In that case. M&P .45 with APEX FSS trigger, and ambi safety.
What he described is NOT a 1911.
Right, not a 1911. A reliable polymer frame pistol with a similar trigger to a 1911, but without having to add $200 bucks worth of Apex parts to achieve a good trigger.
You may be right, and IMHO I've considered having a G19 slide milled out like a G17L, and having forward cocking serrations put in, having it re-melonited, and wearing it with a threaded barrel like you said. (I still consider doing this to a G19RTF2 I have.) However, I think Grip reductions are definetely not for me.
But the reduction in weight with a G19C barrel is less than an ounce. The reduction in weight with a grip reduction is less than an ounce, as well.
I'm thinking more along the lines of the FNH Five-SeveN, which weighs 21 oz. unloaded. And that's a full size pistol.
Sounds like the perfect glock. May be my next project.
Littlelebowski
11-16-11, 19:01
It's a 15-round, polymer-framed 9mm that's exactly the size of a G19. The ported slide -- even with a solid G19 barrel in it -- would make it a hair lighter than a regular G19... as would a grip reduction. That's five of the seven stated criteria right there. Do whatever you need to do with the HK accuracy/durability comparisons.
Like question your personal data on them? Glock is not so sure of a bet nowadays and HK wins on accuracy.
Like question your personal data on them?Absolutely. You certainly have every right to do so.
Glock is not so sure of a bet nowadays...Understood. All I know is that my G26 hasn't failed in four years, my G17 hasn't failed in six years, my G19 hasn't failed in nine years and my G23 hasn't failed in fifteen years.*
and HK wins on accuracy.Fair enough. The only head-to-head comparison I've ever made involved a weekend spent with my G17, my G19, a friend's USP and P2000. I consistently did better with the Glocks than the HKs... and so did he. Not scientific by any means, I'll admit.
At the end of the day, you are -- of course -- correct to question the extent of my experience, my knowledge of the products and my understanding of the subject matter. And yet, if I may...
You may be right, and IMHO I've considered having a G19 slide milled out like a G17L, and having forward cocking serrations put in, having it re-melonited, and wearing it with a threaded barrel like you said.
Sounds like the perfect glock. May be my next project.*In the spirit of full disclosure, the G23 is on its third recoil spring and did once experience five FTF malfunctions all traced back to the same box of cheap Remington UMC.
What he's referring to are the Glock generation 4 problems and late generation 3 problems discussed en masse on this forum, glocktalk, and other places - springs and extractors mostly. You can check it out on Lillebowski's blog if you want, or threads in the handgun section.
As far as accuracy between HK and Glock, if you have shot alot of Glocks and are used to them, then you'll probably do better with a Glock but that doesn't mean they're more accurate, just that you shoot them better. I have no idea what is mechanically more accurate because of my very limited experience and interest in HK pistols, but I wouldn't be surprised if they beat all of my Glocks in head to head accuracy testing... but then I don't really care either, Glocks are accurate enough for me.
What he's referring to are the Glock generation 4 problems and late generation 3 problems....I'm aware of the reported shortcomings in later products. I was simply pointing out that I've had four in the last fifteeen years and not one has ever wet the bed.
if you have shot alot of Glocks and are used to them, then you'll probably do better with a Glock but that doesn't mean they're more accurate, just that you shoot them better.Of course... but I had offered my personal observation wherein a dedicated HK shooter consistently did better with my Glocks than his HKs (understanding that this would not be everyone's experience).
And, of course, I'd like to officially apologize for any additional "torque-steer" that my observations and experiences may have caused in this thread.
Magic_Salad0892
11-17-11, 01:23
Like question your personal data on them? Glock is not so sure of a bet nowadays and HK wins on accuracy.
I'd like to add that Glocks CAN be made to be more/as accurate as HKs, and I have faith in the newer revised Gen4 guns.
They're going away from MIM extractors, revised ejectors, and revised springs.
Littlelebowski
11-17-11, 05:34
I'd like to add that Glocks CAN be made to be more/as accurate as HKs, and I have faith in the newer revised Gen4 guns.
They're going away from MIM extractors, revised ejectors, and revised springs.
Huh? How would you make a Glock more accurate than an HK without compromising reliability?
Where are you hearing this about non MIM extractors?
You do know that the new RSA made my Gen4 G19 malfunction, right?
Littlelebowski
11-17-11, 05:37
A very good post and conducive to civilized discussion.
Arcana, at a Vickers advanced handgun class; I watched HootieWho make a 120 yard shot on a man sized target with a P30. Larry Vickers commented that every time the distance started increasing, the HKs beat the Glocks because of the HK's better accuracy.
Absolutely. You certainly have every right to do so.Understood. All I know is that my G26 hasn't failed in four years, my G17 hasn't failed in six years, my G19 hasn't failed in nine years and my G23 hasn't failed in fifteen years.*Fair enough. The only head-to-head comparison I've ever made involved a weekend spent with my G17, my G19, a friend's USP and P2000. I consistently did better with the Glocks than the HKs... and so did he. Not scientific by any means, I'll admit.
At the end of the day, you are -- of course -- correct to question the extent of my experience, my knowledge of the products and my understanding of the subject matter. And yet, if I may...*In the spirit of full disclosure, the G23 is on its third recoil spring and did once experience five FTF malfunctions all traced back to the same box of cheap Remington UMC.
[QUOTE=Littlelebowski;1145197]Huh? How would you make a Glock more accurate than an HK without compromising reliability?
QUOTE]
Maybe just stock. My Gen 4 G17 (8700 rounds w/ zero malfs) will print quality ammo into 1.5" (for 5) at 25 yards. Are HK's 1" guns? Randy Lee could and has described his fitted barrel Glocks shooting 2" at 50 yards. A simple fitted BarSto barrel would probably do it.
A very good post and conducive to civilized discussion.
Arcana, at a Vickers advanced handgun class; I watched HootieWho make a 120 yard shot on a man sized target with a P30. Larry Vickers commented that every time the distance started increasing, the HKs beat the Glocks because of the HK's better accuracy.
IMO 120 yds is not the measure of a service handgun... and I regularly practice (more like "play") with every kind of handgun out to 200 m.
I can shoot a glock at 100 m (110 yds) just fine, but I would not decide on a particular pistol model based on what it does past 75 m.
Some folks seem to have the opinion that the TR Graham match grade slide lock helps accuracy on the glock. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=59278
Not sure if this belongs int the AR-GD but... Really? Why the phuck do we need another obsolete 1911-style pistol on the market?
AMEN!!!
JEEZ we need to get over the ROMANCE of the 1911!!! :rolleyes:
100+ yards with a pistol? You guys are certainly better shots than me. My pistols do fine at 10, 25 or the occasional 50, but I rarely shoot at or beyond 50 with a handgun.
A very good post and conducive to civilized discussion.Thank you... and likewise. For the record, I wasn't trying to fling poo and shout "Nuh-Uh." There are other boards for that... boards which I have fled.
AMEN!!!
JEEZ we need to get over the ROMANCE of the 1911!!! :rolleyes:
I could'nt agree more...I own one 1911..a orginial 70 series Colt govt model..(made in 1976) I did some trading for it It's pretty much all I wanted in a 1911, (high quality,and as far as I know, no MIM parts) It'll never get shot much and never carried. That said, there so many better options in .45 acp... I've got a Midsized M&P with a Apex FSS, and a set of Heinie straight 8's on it, 2500 flawless rounds through it until last week when I had my first FTF..Turned out mag springs were the culprit.a call to S&W and new ones are on the way.I figure I've got about $700 wrapped up in the M&P, By compairsion, to get a 1911 as reliable as my M&P, I'd probably have to add at least another $1000 to the price. The HK45's and M&P45's are the new wave in .45 cal handguns, they offer so much more, both are uber accurate, uber reliable, and cost much less, Sure, I put some money into my M&P, but I came out way ahead in the long run. $700 won't get you much of a 1911, much less a reliable one.
Littlelebowski
11-17-11, 08:30
100+ yards with a pistol? You guys are certainly better shots than me. My pistols do fine at 10, 25 or the occasional 50, but I rarely shoot at or beyond 50 with a handgun.
Vickers walkback drill; know it, love it :D
Littlelebowski
11-17-11, 08:31
IMO 120 yds is not the measure of a service handgun... and I regularly practice (more like "play") with every kind of handgun out to 200 m.
I can shoot a glock at 100 m (110 yds) just fine, but I would not decide on a particular pistol model based on what it does past 75 m.
Well, it's a good thing no one said that was the measure of a service handgun then, eh? Vickers was commenting on the superior accuracy of the HK showing itself as distance stretched. You know, just like I said earlier?
Littlelebowski
11-17-11, 08:39
AMEN!!!
JEEZ we need to get over the ROMANCE of the 1911!!! :rolleyes:
That will only happen when gunowners actually get out and shoot or stop watching Grand Torino and whispering "I'm like that guy" to themselves.
...or stop watching Grand Torino and whispering "I'm like that guy" to themselves.Dude... this made my morning.
Vickers walkback drill; know it, love it :D
It's great fun and the "Sweet Sixteen" drill of Todd Green's using a 3x5 card and just 16 rounds walking back whatever distances suit you is fun minaturized version that for me is easier to access since my club forbids the use of pistols on the rifle ranges.
That will only happen when gunowners actually get out and shoot or stop watching Grand Torino and whispering "I'm like that guy" to themselves.
I get the point and it's validity to the cult of the 1911. I've owned a dozen across decades but don't own a single one now. But I'll own another. Not for my daily carry gun but for the history, nostalgia etc.
And just for the fun part of shooting them versus training. Same reason I shoot my wheelguns. And if DD puts out a Vickers sort of spec'd gun for a reasonable price, it would be in the running.
TacticalTaco
11-17-11, 12:07
F/A piston driven 9x19 subcompact. I won't settle for less.
Littlelebowski
11-17-11, 14:02
I get the point and it's validity to the cult of the 1911. I've owned a dozen across decades but don't own a single one now. But I'll own another. Not for my daily carry gun but for the history, nostalgia etc.
And just for the fun part of shooting them versus training. Same reason I shoot my wheelguns. And if DD puts out a Vickers sort of spec'd gun for a reasonable price, it would be in the running.
I've owned a few and now I only own the one I got shot with. I'm sentimental like that ;)
I've owned a few and now I only own the one I got shot with. I'm sentimental like that ;)
ROFL! oh sorry, didn't mean to make light. ;) I remember the pics and write up. I'd have to hold onto that one too.
When I buy another . . . it's probably not like one that Vicker's would pen. It would be nickel or bright SS, very retro with silver scrowled grips like these two retired Texas Rangers at the Bexar Country Courthouse lunchroom had tucked into their belts. ;)
Well, it's a good thing no one said that was the measure of a service handgun then, eh? Vickers was commenting on the superior accuracy of the HK showing itself as distance stretched. You know, just like I said earlier?
IF the superior accuracy of the HK vs the glock (or insert your favorite gun here) starts to show past 75 m, what good is that for practical use?
Or perhaps LV can shoot much better with the HK at 25-50 m?
Littlelebowski
11-17-11, 15:16
IF the superior accuracy of the HK vs the glock (or insert your favorite gun here) starts to show past 75 m, what good is that for practical use?
Or perhaps LV can shoot much better with the HK at 25-50 m?
Goddamnit...... I hate the internets some times.
I did NOT say LAV said the accuracy only starts to be noticed at 75m. As far your "IF" regarding the veracity of what LAV said, this is the wrong place to question an SME of his caliber. IF YOU had taken a class of Larry's, you'd know Larry tells the truth no matter who is sponsoring, no matter how painful it is for a manufacturer.
As far as the accuracy goes; maybe, just maybe better accuracy at distance might mean a skilled shooter could get better accuracy at 25 yards and in?
Coupla links for ya in case you don't do the right thing and go get trained by Larry.
HK45 interview (http://pistol-training.com/articles/hk45-interview-with-ken-hackathorn-and-larry-vickers)
Accuracy (http://pistol-training.com/archives/3978)
Shoulderthinggoesup
11-17-11, 15:23
That will only happen when gunowners actually get out and shoot or stop watching Grand Torino and whispering "I'm like that guy" to themselves.
i spit coffee on myself.........
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
This one seems to be wandering all over the world. Does anyone have anything else regarding Daniel Defense and new handguns?
I don't know why this is such a shocker to people, but HK's pistols are almost always the most accurate pistols on the market.
So let's say it together, yes the HK P30/45 is more accurate (right out of the box) than the:
XD(M)
Glock (all the generations)
M&P
CZ
Etc
The ONLY company that I have found can run with an HK pistol (in terms of accuracy) is Walther. It is another German made gun (what a coincidence)!
Will you most likely need to shoot at someone past 25yds? Doubt it. Is it nice to know that you can hit someone at 75yds? Yep.
C4
Singlestack Wonder
11-17-11, 16:25
Never mind.........
Littlelebowski,
I know a little about guns and their potential accuracy. I'm a pretty good shooter (or was, when I practiced more), used to shoot IPSC and know people that are truly gifted shooters on an international level.
I DO know that minor differences (let's say < 1.0" at 25 m, from a rest for a typical 5 shot group) in the intrinsic accuracy of certain pistols (either by brand, model, or even specimens) rarely/never show up at 25-50 m when shooting anything but bullseye style. Certainly never when shooting relatively fast, and at < 25 m. For this style of shooting the grip, trigger, sights, etc. make more of a difference in practical accuracy.
Never met LV, I know his credentials and of course respect him, but don't plan to take his classes because I live a little too far down south.
I know about the story of the HK45, LV articles, etc. But I've also shot many HKs and glocks and Sigs and you name it (not the HK45), and seen them shot by gifted shooters, to have an educated opinion. Some of us don't need a "walkback drill" to realize what guns can or cannot do at inusual ranges, because we have been doing pretty much the same for ages playing with the steel targets from 25 to 200 m on a IMHSA range.
Magic_Salad0892
11-18-11, 06:52
Huh? How would you make a Glock more accurate than an HK without compromising reliability?
Where are you hearing this about non MIM extractors?
You do know that the new RSA made my Gen4 G19 malfunction, right?
1.) Aftermarket REPUTABLE barrels. BarSto, KKM, etc. I'll only use Glock factory. T.R. Graham's take down lever will also make lock up better, and make my Glock 19 more accurate. I've posted about that before. I have two more of these, but I haven't installed them yet. Just haven't gotten around to it.
2.) I've seen pictures here on M4C, I can't remember the posters name or anything, but if I see them again, I'll edit this post. They're out there. You can call Glock and ask about them, and see what they say. I've heard people tell others to specifically ask for a non-MIM extractor. Glockmeister had them in a few days ago.
3.) I did not know that. I currently run a Jager polymer single captioned guide rod for Gen4 guns, with a 18 lbs. ISMI spring. It likes Federal 147 gr. JHP loads. I've heard a lot of good things about the new RSA though, and I also know that the new ejector seems to work well.
TriviaMonster
11-20-11, 19:56
I would agree about HK's being the most accurate factory combat handguns. Of course they cost a bit more than others as well. My XDm is pretty accurate but has nothing on a USP expert.
-Chris-
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