View Full Version : Vehicle Recovery and Repair Gear
Just in case AAA is unavailable...
I have been trying to assemble the best set of gear (within reason) to keep in my primary vehicle (4X4).
This kit would mainly be to get over/through obstacles, make small repairs, and fix/change flat tires.
In no particular order:
-Tow Strap (at least 3X your GVW and 30ft. Long) (http://www.quadratec.com/products/92109_2100.htm)
-Bottle/Scissor Jack (I prefer 3X stronger than GVW)
-4-Way Lug Wrench
-Cable Come-along (http://www.arizonatools.com/come-alongs-and-cable-pullers/detail/AZTM2TON/)
-D-Ring Shackles (http://www.quadratec.com/products/92144_310X_PG.htm)
-Tire Repair Kit (http://www.quadratec.com/products/92042_9182.htm)
-12 Volt Air Compressor/Tire Guage (http://www.quadratec.com/products/92043_0012.htm)
-Pull Pal Earth Anchor (http://www.pullpal.com/aboutPP.html)
-Hi-Lift Jack Extreme 48” (http://www.quadratec.com/products/92200_08_07.htm)
-Bolt Cutters with Hardened Jaws (http://www.arizonatools.com/over-30in-bolt-cutters/detail/HKP0390MC/)
-Shovel (Spade Type) or Quality E-Tool
-Axe (http://www.shopatron.com/products/productdetail/Scandinavian+Forest+Axe/part_number=430/235.0.1.1.58472.0.0.0.0?pp=12&)
-Gloves/Eye Pro/Dust Mask
-Duct/100 MPH Tape/Bailing Wire/Zip Ties/J.B. Cold Weld/Gorilla Glue (Misc. Repair Kit)
-General Tool Kit (Crescent Wrenches/Screw Drivers/Etc.)
-Canvas Tarp/Blanket (6'X8' to lay on during repair)
-Head Lamp/Flashlight w/Spare Batteries
-Jerry Can (http://www.quadratec.com/products/12202_06_07.htm) and 6ft. of Hose (Syphon Kit)
-2nd Spare Tire when possible
-Tire Chains (http://www.tirechain.com/TRUCK-SUV-CHAINS.HTM)
-Fuse Kit
-Solar Panel (12 volt trickle charge kit with controller) (http://www.amazon.com/Instapark%C2%AE-Mono-crystalline-Solar-Charge-Controller/dp/B004FOEUI0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I9X63VOC2N7EY&colid=111Z6AA10FUY3)
-AC/DC Multimeter (http://www.amazon.com/Sinometer-Manual-Digital-Multimeter-MS8268/dp/B000JQ4O2U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322824060&sr=8-1)
-Jumper Cables (http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-08862-25-Foot-Ultra-Heavy-Duty/dp/B000PJD7HY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I35H0LV5XV3SXB&colid=111Z6AA10FUY3)
-Extra Serpentine/V-Belt w/Breaker or Tension Bar
-Penetrating Lube/WD-40
-Fuel Filter
-Radiator Hose Sections
-Fluids based on vehicle requirements (Oil, Coolant, Brake Fluid, etc.)
*Winch, Preferably a Warn (Obviously the best answer to recovery but not always feasible or affordable)
*Winch Kit (Snatch Blocks, Tree Saver Straps, Chain, etc.)
*Chainsaw (Husqvarna or STIHL with an 18" bar would be my two choices)
*Hi-Lift Handle-All Kit (http://www.quadratec.com/products/92200_06.htm) looks like a solid idea to save some space.
Anyone have any other items to add on this or better options to what I have listed?
That Guy v2.0
11-15-11, 10:32
I'm working on coming up with a similar kit. I've got a 4x4 Double Cab Tacoma. I'm only in the planning stages right now though.
A great place to get ideas is http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/
It primarily focuses on the overland/expedition type vehicles. Very thorough and informative.
That looks like a well thought out kit. But heavy. Carrying that much weight on a daily basis is going to affect more than your gas mileage.
I would add some type of penetrating lube - bolts will not come off at the most inopportune time.
If you do get a winch, loose the come-a-long and the one of the jacks.
KevinC
That looks like a well thought out kit. But heavy. Carrying that much weight on a daily basis is going to affect more than your gas mileage.
I would add some type of penetrating lube - bolts will not come off at the most inopportune time.
Yes, it will be heavy. Being in the Distaster Prep and Preparedness Forum it has a purpose, to get you from A to B under emergency circumstances.
Being prepared is never lightweight, or free ;)
Good idea on the penetrating lube; PB Blaster is good $hit.
If you do get a winch, loose the come-a-long and the one of the jacks.
Definitely, somethings will be redundant because of what you have as OEM products in your vehicle and what you may throw in during an emergency. I'm not sure if I would toss out the OEM jack, but I would have no need to carry a come-along with a winch. I have heard the come-along called "the poor man's winch", for $60, it's a cheap insurance item.
I'm working on coming up with a similar kit. I've got a 4x4 Double Cab Tacoma. I'm only in the planning stages right now though.
I have a 2008 Nissan Frontier NISMO 4X4 double cab. Pretty much exactly what you are working with. One thing I have done already is buy an extremely heavy duty plastic trunk from Tractor Supply Co. and fill it with most of my gear. The trunk breaths but keeps water from coming in even during the hardest rains. I hold it in place with a ratcheting truck-bed bar. The only stuff that wont fit are the longer times like my Hi-Lift Jack and shovel; stuff that can be thrown in the bed.
Definitely, somethings will be redundant because of what you have as OEM products in your vehicle and what you may throw in during an emergency. I'm not sure if I would toss out the OEM jack, but I would have no need to carry a come-along with a winch. I have heard the come-along called "the poor man's winch", for $60, it's a cheap insurance item.
I've seen a simiar discussion in some brazilian offroad forums, and came to the conclusion that the come-along is best overall tool, because of being lighter, man-powered (save batteries and fuel) and more versatile overall.
For instance, it can pull your vehicle sideways and backwards. Yes, you can do that with your bumper installed winch, but that will need some pulleys which aren't in your kit. I would add some sort of pulley anyway.
Beware: I do not have experience in vehicle recovery.
ive got an old skule canvas USGI-type tool bag with all of the common sockets for everything from battery terminals to starters. Wire crimpers, connectors, etc...and a 1/2 breaker bar for the belt tensioner...and a spare belt. Also, a 500 count cannister of zip ties.
my car has hex bolt equipped battery terminals so i have a full set of hex wrenches....
* spare set of battery terminals!
I dont know how many come alongs I have broken in my youth trying to extricate my old Waggoneer or Trooper.
IMO a $60 come along aint worth having, now if you spend closer to $200 on one of the big boys that may be a different story.
Their main weakness is, if you are alone (no one in the vehicle) you are pulling that weight with no help, but you maybe Hercules and can handle it not me...
That's a pretty good list to start. There's some redundancy, but that's not all bad. Depends on your load and anticipated problems. Navigating forested terrain and recovery from its obstacles is a little different than gumbo/mud bogs, or wet prairie lows.
OEM jacks suck and are nearly useless in backcountry.
Combinations of extra water, JB weld, a length of hose, duct tape, and a high-lift jack have brought me home more than once. Luck is not a plan, but it was helpful a time or two as well.
As with defensive weapons, knowledge of how to use them is king. Knowing how to drive, where not to go, and how to negotiate iffy terrain and obstacles is worth faaaaar more than widgets.
Im assuming you've got a truck? If its a pickup, that gear isnt too heavy at all, really thats barely a drop. Store it all in a nice heavy locking toolbox in the bed and the truck won't even know its there. I think having some redunancy is a good thing too. A winch would definitely be something I'd add.
As for the winch, it might be a good idea to set it up so it can mount on the front OR rear. Have a reciever installed on the FRONT or your truck as well as the rear and set the winch up so it can be slid into either reciever...makes it even more versatile.
If it happens to be a diesel Id also suggest a transfer tank in the bed. I wouldnt do it with gasoline, but diesel would be ok. They even make toolbox/transfer tank combos and you can carry anywhere from 40-100 gallons of extra fuel, DRASTICALLY increasing your range.
I would add a snatch block, tree strap and 20' of 3/8" chain, and maybe a chain saw for good measure
I would subtract the cable come-along
Having considerable amount of saddle time recovering all types of vehicles off road I would rate the top 3 as follows.
1) High center either the front or rear diff.. Here an X-jack is my first choice, basically lift the axle using air from either the vehicle exhaust, on board air compressor or CO2 tank. High lift will work also bu remember to strap the axle to the body/frame so it will lift with the body as one unit and clear the diff from the obstruction.
2) Vehicle slid off the trail. If your alone, here is where a winch can be a life saver. Redirecting the winch line is almost always necessary that is where the snatch block and tree strap comes in. If there is a support vehicle then a tow strap with a couple of D shackels usually will make quick work of the recovery.
3) Moving a trail obstruction i.e. fallen tree.. Here is where the chain rapped around the tree pulled by a vehicle or a winch... Or just break out the chain saw and make some camp wood.
...and a 1/2 breaker bar for the belt tensioner...and a spare belt. Also, a 500 count cannister of zip ties.
.....
* spare set of battery terminals!
Those are good ideas.
Bailing wire, Zip ties, and like mentioned earlier JB weld.
I would add some radiator hose, especially the custom fit portions and some generic radiator hose, a siphon hose, and maybe some flat repair goop and a small tire inflation compressor. And a spare fuel filter.
I've found that prevention is the best prep and then have the spares and tools as you listed. The most common vehicle "stoppages" in my experience are:
- flat tire: keep good rubber on the truck and spare, have stuff to fix a flat
- failure of serpentine or radiator rubber: check regularly and replace when slightest doubt, and carry spares (some sections of radiator hose is hard to find for certain models so have it on hand)
- battery dies: less common with newer vehicles that turn off headlights, but jumpers are a minimum. I have pondered the value of installing a second battery in the engine compartment that could be easily switched over to if the primary goes down, like both connected through a knife switch.)
- water in fuel line clogging the filter: change regularly and have a replacement. Cheap part that solves most common fuel problem.
- other major engine, steering, suspension failure: check and service these regularly, especially frequent fluid changes. Carry spare fluids for transmission, engine, cooling, brakes, steering.
- brakes: check and replace regularly, don't let them wear down to the bitter end trying to save a few bucks. At any sign of a small leak get it fixed.
Overall the frequent preventative maintenance is far cheaper than any repair. And don't try to get the last few miles out of your tires, brakes, etc. Change them when they are nearing the end. Keep in mind, what if a disaster happened etween now and my next inspection of that part? Would it have enough life to reliably see me through, or would be be borderline and prone to failure? the last thing you want is to be caught in a disaster situation, especially a bug out, and have your big 4x4 stop because you didn't change a $50 part a little sooner than absolutely necessary.
Moose-Knuckle
11-16-11, 16:19
Some of the shit I keep in my truck. . .
Tire patch kit and Slime, couple of cans of Fix-a-Flat for trucks, a 1' piece of 2"x6" to place under jack while off road, a quality compact air compressor with DC power cable, and a four-way tire wrench (better leverage than a tire tool). Last Thanksgiving I had not one but two blow outs due to FOD on a rural country highway. That sucked major donkey balls.
Year round I always carry a ball cap (for sun protection) and a knit cap (for warmth) along with several pairs of gloves (Mechanix and jersey) for working on hot engine parts and or protection from impacts and abrasions.
Another thing I carry in my truck that doesn't take alot of space are roofing shingles, they can be very helpful in snow or ice towards getting unstuck. Throw 'em gravel side down under the tires to grip help grip the ice and the tar side up helps to grip the tires.
Moose-Knuckle
11-16-11, 18:49
Another thing I carry in my truck that doesn't take alot of space are roofing shingles, they can be very helpful in snow or ice towards getting unstuck. Throw 'em gravel side down under the tires to grip help grip the ice and the tar side up helps to grip the tires.
For the same reasons, when ever the cold months come I always pick up a few hundred pounds of playbox sand (in thick vinyl bags) for the bed of my truck to aid in traction. Also, if needed, I can simply shovel some sand out of one of the bags to throw underneath my tires if I'm spinning out.
Some of the shit I keep in my truck. . .
Tire patch kit and Slime, couple of cans of Fix-a-Flat for trucks, a 1' piece of 2"x6" to place under jack while off road, a quality compact air compressor with DC power cable, and a four-way tire wrench (better leverage than a tire tool). Last Thanksgiving I had not one but two blow outs due to FOD on a rural country highway. That sucked major donkey balls.
Year round I always carry a ball cap (for sun protection) and a knit cap (for warmth) along with several pairs of gloves (Mechanix and jersey) for working on hot engine parts and or protection from impacts and abrasions.
and a sweat shirt. my truck has plenty of space under the hood, but the v8 in my tbird was literally shoehorned in, any work results in cutting my wrists and forearms on either the fan shroud or top of the radiator.
and a sweat shirt.
I keep a wool lined Carhartt Jacket in my truck box.
As for gloves; anyone who has used a winch knows to get very thick leather gloves. They welding type works well. It's an issue working with the wound steal cables that can become frayed. The new synthetic winch lines are safer, lighter, and they float.
As far as the Fix-a-Flat and Slime products go; I heard they ruin your tire. Anyone know the facts on that? It may be the best/only option in a true SHTF situation, but if AAA answers the phone there is no way I would put that shit in a tire. Thoughts?
Moose-Knuckle
11-17-11, 04:01
As far as the Fix-a-Flat and Slime products go; I heard they ruin your tire. Anyone know the facts on that? It may be the best/only option in a true SHTF situation, but if AAA answers the phone there is no way I would put that shit in a tire. Thoughts?
On my way to a family dinner on Thanksgiving last year. Picked up some unseen FOD in both front and rear passenger side tires on a rural highway. They went down almost instantly. Well I had one spare, but not two. My cousin's husband came from an hour away with his work truck that has a compressor on it. Pulled the valve stem on the one tire I did not have a spare for, filled with Slime and filled with air. Good as new. I buy all my tires from Discount Tire Co., they cleaned the Slime out of the one tire and saved it. Some tire places WILL NOT clean out Slime or Fix-A-Flat but these guys did. In SHTF a can of Fix-A-Flat is better than being stranded with out another mode of transpo.
The wife and I were in no real danger (other than passing cars) so it was more inconvient than anything, but had it been a get the hell out of Dodge situation it would have been total FUBAR.
If you have other options and are not in danger then I would recommend not using the above mentioned products but if you have no other choice it is better than walking.
The basic list sounds very good. I don't have much use for a 4 way wrench, though; Better a long breaker bar and sockets. PM and a well-built rig goes a LONG way toward not needing to get out and get under. My '69 Ford 3/4+ tonner with 6 cyl and 4 speed, PTO winch was a tank and never failed me. My restored '72 Jeep CJ5 is fun to drive, but is a toy in comparison.
Years ago I found a great manual published in 1932 on all kinds of tips for exotic travel, right down to how to bargain when buying camels, etc., etc. The section on vehicle travel had an equipment list and tips almost identical to what has been said here. One of the comments made was "Drive as if the road will disappear on the other side of a curve. It may."
Iraq Ninja
11-17-11, 09:36
We used floor jacks as our default jacks for ease of use and speed.
We also carried empty sandbags to fill with dirt if we got stuck in soft ground.
Tow straps- we used the ones in the pic below. Strong enough to tow anything we had. We had to link two of them to together to reach the vehicle...
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/Iraq%20and%20Iraqis/towstrap.jpg
For the same reasons, when ever the cold months come I always pick up a few hundred pounds of playbox sand (in thick vinyl bags) for the bed of my truck to aid in traction. Also, if needed, I can simply shovel some sand out of one of the bags to throw underneath my tires if I'm spinning out.
Thanks moose for reminding me to get that done. SOP as far as I am concerned.
Dave-maybe I missed it but do you carry spare oil, coolant etc. already? Also as for the slime and such, that is news to me. I ran slime for years in my KLR650 without issues but I wore out tires quicker than you would on a car.
We used floor jacks as our default jacks for ease of use and speed.
We also carried empty sandbags to fill with dirt if we got stuck in soft ground.
Tow straps- we used the ones in the pic below. Strong enough to tow anything we had. We had to link two of them to together to reach the vehicle...
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/Iraq%20and%20Iraqis/towstrap.jpg
IN-PLEASE tell me that LC is a diesel. That in my opinion would be the shidizzle dizzle, just wish you could get them here.
Dave-maybe I missed it but do you carry spare oil, coolant etc. already?
I do personally, but I didn't add it to the list. I'll do that now.
A couple years ago, I had my vehicle burn out both headlamps within a couple minutes of one another on the drive home from work. The remainder of the trip that night was interesting, to say the least.
I keep a spare headlamp in all my vehicles now...
Lotsa great info listed so far in here guys....how about PARACORD???!!! The good stuff too, with NSN #'s...
Moose-Knuckle
11-17-11, 20:34
Lotsa great info listed so far in here guys....how about PARACORD???!!! The good stuff too, with NSN #'s...
In the BOB that I keep in my truck I keep 50' of mil-spec para cord. ;)
We used floor jacks as our default jacks for ease of use and speed.
We also carried empty sandbags to fill with dirt if we got stuck in soft ground.
Tow straps- we used the ones in the pic below. Strong enough to tow anything we had. We had to link two of them to together to reach the vehicle...
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d127/Iraqninja/Iraq%20and%20Iraqis/towstrap.jpg
What was the tire pressure? Normally we run 15psi on sand. At 15psi you should be able to run all day on level terrain
I do personally, but I didn't add it to the list. I'll do that now.
how about a bottle or two of brake cleaner? nothing gets road grime gone like that stuff! I also had a friend give me a pair of road flares that could come in handy.
Iraq Ninja
11-17-11, 23:00
What was the tire pressure? Normally we run 15psi on sand. At 15psi you should be able to run all day on level terrain
Tire pressure was often a subject of debate. Our SOP from the Head Shed said to use the same that the tire is rated for... no more or no less. We had a spurt of tire blowouts last year that resulted in a few KIAs. I think the investigation said the tires were faulty. Possibly stored in the sun on on the roofs for long periods of time.
In the pic, the cause was Tired Pressure- the driver was tired and under pressure to keep up and failed to follow in the tracks of the lead vehicle.
I also had a friend give me a pair of road flares that could come in handy.
I do keep road flares in my vehicle. Tractor Supply Co. and NAPA sell them from around $2-3. I had them listed on the original list but they do not really help you repair or recover so I deleted them before I posted the thread. As a primary signal item; they still belong in the vehicle kit as a good mulit-use item. I keep mine waterproof in Zip-lock bags to keep the moisture from degrading them.
Tire pressure was often a subject of debate. Our SOP from the Head Shed said to use the same that the tire is rated for... no more or no less. We had a spurt of tire blowouts last year that resulted in a few KIAs. I think the investigation said the tires were faulty. Possibly stored in the sun on on the roofs for long periods of time.
In the pic, the cause was Tired Pressure- the driver was tired and under pressure to keep up and failed to follow in the tracks of the lead vehicle.
Tough go at it with rated pressure for sure... UV cracks will magnify potential side wall failures especially at floatation pressures. Momentum in your case is probably your best friend.
I do keep road flares in my vehicle.
I bought these a while ago:
http://www.powerwerx.com/_images/products/liteflare_xlrg.jpg (http://www.powerwerx.com/emergency-vehicle/lite-flare-compact-electronic-led-signaling-device.html)
Normal road flares (pyro devices) aren't available over here. Only marine ones, but it is awfuly expensive.
Air tank, portable compressor or an on board air system. You can build on board air in stages. We built nice aluminum tanks for our trucks and for portable air out of tanks from tractor trailers. Find a salvage yard and you can buy them cheap. Those tanks have a ton of openings and you just need to buy brass fittings/plugs to suit your needs. Mount that first or just strap it in the bed and fill it from a remote supply. You can add it to a compressor and manifold when you have the $$$ and have full time, on board air to fill tires, run air tools, etc. Several off road shops machine manifolds for do it yourself minded folks. You can also buy the full kit with everything you need from Viair or Warn.
Read up on your high lift jack, it can be used as a come along for recovery. You can only go the length of the jack and then have to reset but that is often enough to get you out. It is very strong and the long large diameter handle is easier to operate than a regular come along. The high lift along with a pull pall and a handfull of straps can get you out of a lot if you are patient/persistent.
I see many Jeep owners wearing helmets when offroading/rock crawling. In MI, anyone operating an ORV on a state ORV trail must wear a helmet.
One thought I had, which may be very vehicle specific, would be to add a couple cheap ProTec helmets (http://www.amazon.com/Protec-Helmet-Matte-Charcoal-Large/dp/B0018GYNE4) and clear lens [dust] goggles.
If there was an emergency evacuation scenario, people will be driving like savages and protecting the dome may be a good idea.
Now I just have to find one that's lined with tinfoil :no:
I have updated the jumper cable link to a set of American made 2 gauge cables.
In regards to Tire Pressure....
Anytime you are running in soft sand or rocks you need to lower your tire pressure.
For sand you need a bigger contact patch and a higher flotation area. Around 8psi is ideal for this. Test this theory out - Run through some soft sand with you tires at normal air pressure; then run the same trail at 8psi and see what happens. You will be amazed.
For rocks you also need lower pressure to allow the rocks to cave/mold into the rubber. Running high/normal pressure and a rock will puncture the tire. I've ran 8psi in rocks but did so with a set of bead locks on the rims. If no bead locks you have a good chance of loosing a bead.
You should air back up once back on the road. Hence all the suggestions about some type of on board air. I personally carry a 10lb CO2 tank. Portable for when I need to transfer it to another vehicle. 10lb of CO2 will air up about 50 33" tires from 0 to 30psi.
KevinC
jawalterusmc
11-23-11, 08:39
lots of good input here but didn't see replacement valve stems as part of your tire repair kit. Also didn't see U-Joints....speaking from experience. I only take my full recovery kit when going off roading, rock climbing. I pack a smaller kit for everyday use in my Jeep...not much different than what you might find in anyone's car....glow in the dark triangles to place behind my vehicle, flares, flashlight, hand tools, jumper cables, coveralls, gloves, etc. My Jeep is my daily driver. I have used my winch to help more people that I can count so I keep my control cable and other winch accessories with me at all times.
lots of good input here but didn't see replacement valve stems as part of your tire repair kit. Also didn't see U-Joints....
Good ideas if you are competent mechanic. I didn't want to get too technical. Should someone decide to carry these parts, I would hope they would get proper training and carry the proper tools to do the work.
Being in the Disaster Prep & Preparedness Forum, the main point of the kit would be to get you from dangerous A to safe B. Most stuff wouldn't be in your vehicle unless you thought you would need it. Highways and other main roads may become impassible and improved road driving may become necessity.
Stream crossings, desert crossings, and rock crawling may be in your AO in which case your kit will vary from others.
What about Tire Chains? I have no experience with them but do know they are quite popular with Alaskans. I'm guessing they may be nice for snow, but what about mud and sand?
Added an AC/DC Multimeter to the list. If anyone has a link to a better one that wont break the bank, please post it.
What about Tire Chains? I have no experience with them but do know they are quite popular with Alaskans. I'm guessing they may be nice for snow, but what about mud and sand?
Gotten stuck by myself a couple of times I now have chains for each tire on the drive-train and they have become part of my standard equipment. They will give you just the extra bite in mud and sand, especially when you have road tires that don't perform well in mud/sand. It will shorten chain life, but will be worth it if you're in a bind. Clean them well after the abuse.
Get the type you can put on while the truck is loosing traction, i.e. you don't have to roll the tire onto the chain.
http://www.tirechains.com/car_chaininstallationinstruction.htm
Added an AC/DC Multimeter to the list. If anyone has a link to a better one that wont break the bank, please post it.
i have the 3.99 special from harbor freight that i use for stereo and speaker installs, in addition to easily diagnosing 12v stuff...like replacing the airbag indicator lamp on my truck after some jack wagon stole it!
so far, its done what i need it to do. Fluke is an excellent brand, though.
Just added a small Solar Panel Kit to trickle charge a 12 volt batter to the list. These are becoming popular, affordable, and quite efficient. I plan on picking up an Instapark 5W Mono-crystalline Solar Panel with 12V Solar Charge Controller (http://www.amazon.com/Instapark%C2%AE-Mono-crystalline-Solar-Charge-Controller/dp/B004FOEUI0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I9X63VOC2N7EY&colid=111Z6AA10FUY3) to try out.
I would prefer a "weatherproof" model that could be mounted to a roof or hood but have not found one yet. These are meant to be laid on the dash under the windshield.
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