View Full Version : Rookie Wants to Learn
Hello all,
This is my first post and I hope to get a bunch of info from here. I'm looking into getting an AR-15 and I have pretty much no prior experience. I've shot a glock before but that's it. I don't know much about the technical side of guns but I would love to learn. I'm looking to get something I can use to hunt (something I'm also just learning), but also something that could be a fighting rifle.
Basically what I'm asking for is the best way to get started into the AR culture. Thanks for your help in advance :)
CrazyFingers
11-17-11, 15:22
Read the stickies at the top of this forum. Use the search button for any other questions. If you cannot find an answer using either of those methods, then post a question. All of the basic information that one needs to learn about the AR platform and make an informed purchase has already been posted in this forum.
The_Hunter
11-17-11, 15:23
Read all the stickies, this may prompt questions, use the search to answers those questions. If the search function does not yield the answer you seek then ask in the correct forum.
I read here for a year before my first post.
Wonderful, you guys are so helpful.
60buckscash
11-17-11, 15:52
Welcome to the board and have fun reading!
Welcome to M4C. I encourage you to spend some time reading. many new members want to jump in right away and start asking questions- most of which have been beat up and discussed to death.
I would encourage you to also think of your future AR as a fighting weapon first. By doing so, you will have a weapon capable of doing everything else as well.
If you want a quality AR then you cannot go wrong with Bravo Company, Colt, Daniel Defense or Noveske.
Do not cut corners and don't buy cheap. If you don't have all the money then wait until you do.
Read, read, and read somemore. There is some much knowledge on here if you just learn how to use the orange search button at the top of the page. This forum has some of the most knoledgeable people I have every heard on the AR platform. As IG stated save your money and buy a decent AR to begin with. DD, BCM, or colt.
Go with an AK or smoke crack. Both will end up being cheaper.
Just kidding about the crack thing. Just gotta throw that one out there for those who don't have a sense of humor and may not understand that it was just a joke. ;)
Sing up for a Basic class. Some will let you borrow an AR. This will expose you to the system and educate you on what you might want. Its also a good investment in future knowledge.
R.
Welcome to M4C. I encourage you to spend some time reading. many new members want to jump in right away and start asking questions- most of which have been beat up and discussed to death.
I would encourage you to also think of your future AR as a fighting weapon first. By doing so, you will have a weapon capable of doing everything else as well.
If you want a quality AR then you cannot go wrong with Bravo Company, Colt, Daniel Defense or Noveske.
Do not cut corners and don't buy cheap. If you don't have all the money then wait until you do.
Thank you.
I've been thinking about going Colt but I've read that they may have special internal parts that are Colt only.
I don't know what you are referring to, but I can only assume it's the old Colt stuff that is no longer relevant. Colt has been using .155 diameter pins now for a few years and all new ones have them. All of their parts are good.
GandRtactical.com was selling them for around 980.00 with some models that can be upgraded with different items.
Thank you.
I've been thinking about going Colt but I've read that they may have special internal parts that are Colt only.
Thank you.
I've been thinking about going Colt but I've read that they may have special internal parts that are Colt only.
Internet rumor. No "special" parts in the Colt.
C4
Eurodriver
11-17-11, 18:53
I've been here a while and I still use the search button. There is so much damn info in the archives, I don't even know why we allow new posts :)
Internet rumor. No "special" parts in the Colt.
C4
:haha: honest mistake but that's still funny.
Welcome OP! M4C provides some great insight and advice so get ready to read! Good luck!
Internet rumor. No "special" parts in the Colt.
C4
Thanks for the clear up. Most of the stuff I've read is from like 06 so I wasn't sure if that was the case.
Do you guys recommend buying an assembled one, or the lower receiver and building from there?
As a newcomer you are not in a good position to assemble an AR from scratch--unless we are talking about buying a complete lower and mating it to a complete upper, then putting in the bolt and carrying handle.
That sub $1000 Colt 6920 from G&R tactical is a no-brainer great deal.
Raven Armament
11-18-11, 01:19
As a newcomer you are not in a good position to assemble an AR from scratch--unless we are talking about buying a complete lower and mating it to a complete upper, then putting in the bolt and carrying handle.
Seriously? The AR15 is a Lego gun assembled from drop in parts. There is nothing complicated about putting one together.
Do you know how many people have made that statement and then come to this site for emergency assistance with their ARbortion?
Seriously? The AR15 is a Lego gun assembled from drop in parts. There is nothing complicated about putting one together.
ARs may be as easy as Legos to assemble, but the devil is in the details
Do you know how many people have made that statement and then come to this site for emergency assistance with their ARbortion?
True.
The first problem with buying AR parts and assembling them is that most people do not know the correct ways to install things (Don't have the proper tools, torque values, even the right grease and punches).
The second problem is that not all parts a created equal, BUT most noobs have no idea about this and think they are all the same.
They are not.
C4
I'd say go shooting with a current AR owner. Just be careful about what you hear from shooters. There are a lot of people who think they know everything, but don't know shit.
Most of the guys on this site are pretty knowledgeable.
Hi, and welcome to the forum. I don't think you can find a more complete pool of firearms knowledge anywhere on the web. ;)
Here's a tip for searching the forum if you have trouble with the search button. Try a Boolean search in your favorite search engine. enter "site: m4carbine.net +" and then your search question. This will often produce better results then the orange button.
I'd say go shooting with a current AR owner. Just be careful about what you hear from shooters. There are a lot of people who think they know everything, but don't know shit.
Amen. Whatever you do, take everything a gun shop dude says with a grain of salt. One told me that the MP on the barrel stood for Military and Police. If you buy an AR or any weapon on a gun shop dude's recommend, its a crap shoot.
Some here know their stuff. Iraqgunz and C4Igrant are two who do.
Raven Armament
11-18-11, 10:57
Do you know how many people have made that statement and then come to this site for emergency assistance with their ARbortion?
Quality parts installed in the proper manner will yield a quality, reliable weapon. If someone is using sub-par parts and/or sub-par assembling procedures, they will not have a quality weapon. Crap in, crap out. Crap parts or crap assembling will get you a crap weapon every time.
To OP,
Welcome to the forum.
Please read the above posts.
That will save you some heartache and pain in the wallet.
Do you know how many people have made that statement and then come to this site for emergency assistance with their ARbortion?
This is very true. I consider myself having a fairly good mechanical knowledge (I aced the ASVAB if that counts for anything - I'm sure it doesn't), but if it had not been for knowing some people that had real world experience with M4 carbines my first rifle would have been an abortion. The same thing seems to be true with the people who say to go and convert a Saiga for your first AK.
You need to first have experience with a rifle that was made correctly before you can go put one together.
Listen to what the more experienced people on this board have to say. Read more than you post, and do not post about what you don't know about.
And always remember: "You don't know what you don't know".
Quality parts installed in the proper manner will yield a quality, reliable weapon.
Sorta proved his point there didn't ya?
LOL and so does your signature. If they were so easy, why would a person need to say they know what they are doing, and have had years of experience?
OP. Start with a complete rifle, or upper and lower combination. You will want to modify it for sure, but you won't know what you want until you have it and shoot it.
Complete upper and home-assembled lower is an ok way to go for a first AR-15 imo. The lower doesn't matter so much as long as you get a decent LPK and everything's in-spec. Make sure to stake your end plate to the castle nut on the buffer tube.
Correct. And when I used to get Legos there were cool pictures and other stuff and maybe even some diagrams on how to build a certain thing. But, I could also deviate if I wanted to.
Not so with the AR. There is alot of bad info out there. I think Grant made the point pretty good.
Quality parts installed in the proper manner will yield a quality, reliable weapon. If someone is using sub-par parts and/or sub-par assembling procedures, they will not have a quality weapon. Crap in, crap out. Crap parts or crap assembling will get you a crap weapon every time.
Thank you all for the info. It sounds like I need to get an assembled AR first and then familiarize myself with it before tinkering. Thanks for the heads up.
Correct. And when I used to get Legos there were cool pictures and other stuff and maybe even some diagrams on how to build a certain thing. But, I could also deviate if I wanted to.
Not so with the AR. There is alot of bad info out there. I think Grant made the point pretty good.
I think the real problem is companies shoving in off-brand Duplo blocks into there and calling it good enough.
Get a 6920. If you want more flexibility for later, get the 6920 with DD 12.0 FSP rail from Grant at G&R.
Thank you all for the info. It sounds like I need to get an assembled AR first and then familiarize myself with it before tinkering. Thanks for the heads up.
This is would be the best choice. I think a colt 6920 would be an excellent first AR (wish i had done this!) and isnt too hard to find locally or at shows. You may find that other quality names held in high regard here are almost totally unknown in most gunshops or shooting circles.
Do not be swayed by anyone claiming that "parts are parts" or that olympic arms, bushmaster, rock river etc are milspec and good to go, because they arent. And just because someone was in the military or have been to the sandbox x amount of times or shot a hundred taliban isnt necessarily an indicator of their knowledge of ARs or"milspec". Nothing against their service, but what I learned from my time in the army is that very few people in the military know jack squat about weapons other than the basics outlined in the FMs.
This sight is a goldmine of information about the AR platform. Search a topic and read for hours as opposed to making a post and waiting a day or so for a couple responses to come in.
You are already starting off better than I did. I bought (a tushmaster) then read.... It has done decent considering its pedigree but it had its issues that were quickly addressed at a cost that would have easily bought a much higher quality rifle. Its recently been put to reserve/guinea pig status by my recently aquired noveske. I now need to seek out some training, Im a work in progress ;)
OP. Welcome to the site. I wanna point out one thing first here that many new members dont always understand. Ths site is dedicated to the AR platform as a fighting rifle. This isnt a site that caters to the "just as good" crowd. Many people on here are current or former military, LEO and PMCs who rely on their rifles for their lives. Thus you wont see much love for lower grade rifles from companies that cut corners to save a buck.
My suggestion, and probably everyone here will agree, is to just buy a Colt 6920. Grant has them for under 1k ( www. gandrtactical.com ). The Colt 6920 is the closest thing you can get to an actual military M4 without getting a tax stamp for a machine gun. The Colt 6920 is the "gold standard" by which all other ARs are judged.
A few years ago the actor David Spade donated a bunch of money to my department to buy more rifles for our patrol division. Colt was in a .gov contract and had a huge wait time so my department decided to buy Bushmasters. I ended up with one. Truthfully the rifle has fed and fired fine. But the rifle has broke on me four times as of now. Not jams, flat out broken. My tigger assembly broke, my safety broke, my bolt gas rings went bad in the first 2k rounds and have since gone bad again less than 5k rounds later. They use the wrong front sight base so I am actually zeroed a little high because I ran out of adjustment room on the sight.
Every single Bushmaster that they bought has had problems. The older and newer Colts rarely have any problems.
Seriously? The AR15 is a Lego gun assembled from drop in parts. There is nothing complicated about putting one together.
As a shop/company owner in the industry I would think you'd encourage the 'educated consumer' :confused:
Raven Armament
11-19-11, 12:18
I think Grant made the point pretty good.
Essentially saying the same thing I am. Buy good parts, put them together properly, you'll be fine.
Essentially saying the same thing I am. Buy good parts, put them together properly, you'll be fine.
Disregard my last. I wasn't readin' right :)
Raven Armament
11-19-11, 12:38
As a shop/company owner in the industry I would think you'd encourage the 'educated consumer' :confused:
I work with educated and uneducated consumers alike. I encourage a lot of customers to assemble their own rifle. If they have all the parts needed they can set up an appointment use my tools. If they want to be guided, I charge a small fee for someone to hold their hand and walk them through informing them and teaching them the system along the way.
Raven Armament
11-19-11, 12:45
Disregard my last. I wasn't readin' right :)
No problem. Glad I could clear it up.
The Lego reference probably caused ambiguity. It's a Lego in the sense that it's drop in with no fitting required, unlike a 1911 assembled from scratch where you have to fit the slide to the frame, the barrel and bushing, the FP stop, the grip safety, all that jazz. The AR is pins, springs, and detents for the most part; essentially putting things in holes. Not difficult, but there's a right way to do it.
I work with educated and uneducated consumers alike. I encourage a lot of customers to assemble their own rifle. If they have all the parts needed they can set up an appointment use my tools. If they want to be guided, I charge a small fee for someone to hold their hand and walk them through informing them and teaching them the system along the way.
Clear now. Wish more shops around here would do that. A neighbor came over to shoot in our fields last night...not one, but TWO grip-pods and an 'A-POS' patch glued to his stock. He needs your assistance!!
Raven Armament
11-19-11, 12:50
Thank you all for the info. It sounds like I need to get an assembled AR first and then familiarize myself with it before tinkering. Thanks for the heads up.
If you just want a weapon that runs so you can focus on learning and becoming proficient with that weapon, then I agree it might be best to buy a reliable weapon, then swap out parts as you see fit to customize it to your shooting. That will also allow you to buy tools in batches as you need them rather than spend a lot up front.
IndianaBoy
11-19-11, 13:41
Seriously? The AR15 is a Lego gun assembled from drop in parts. There is nothing complicated about putting one together.
It depends how mechanically inclined a person is.
Properly torquing a barrel and drilling a barrel and FSB for taper pins might be beyond some people's experience.
Even something as simple as lining up a clamp on gas block might give someone fits, depending on whether or not they understand what they are doing.
Building an AR from scratch is probably the best way to quickly come to understand it's mechanical function, but it isn't for everyone.
If nothing else, I would encourage a new owner to buy a barreled upper with the FSB already attached. The rest is pretty simple, assuming they pay attention to detail.
arizonaranchman
11-19-11, 14:07
Welcome to M4C. I encourage you to spend some time reading. many new members want to jump in right away and start asking questions- most of which have been beat up and discussed to death.
I would encourage you to also think of your future AR as a fighting weapon first. By doing so, you will have a weapon capable of doing everything else as well.
If you want a quality AR then you cannot go wrong with Bravo Company, Colt, Daniel Defense or Noveske.
Do not cut corners and don't buy cheap. If you don't have all the money then wait until you do.
Exactly. I ran my BCM with a carry handle for a year until I could afford an Aimpoint and Troy battlesight. I'd rather wait and get the BEST than jump in and try and save a couple hundred bucks just because i'm impatient and want to complete the rifle.
Choose your gear and set-up wisely and you'll only have to do it ONCE and save a ton of money. Keep it SIMPLE is the best way to start... a quality optic, back-up sight, a good sling and a weapon light, that's all you need in a basic carbine.
There's an enormous amount of expertice here, read and read and read some more and you'll find all you could ever need to know to make your selection. Then get out and shoot the hell out of it, get some good training and have fun.
Welcome to the Forum
St.Michael
11-19-11, 14:10
Run in the other direction. This hobby is more expensive then being married!!!!
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