5.45 upper options - Adams Arms or Spikes

[Chatterbox]

Would love to hear some opinions on which one would be preferable - personal experience is great, but I'll take informed speculation also.:)

Here are the specs:
Spikes:
Spikes Tactical 5.45x39 Upper, 16" midlength, complete corrosion Resistant Mid-Length 5.45x39 upper, comes with Magpul Handguards ST-T2 buffer. Lothar Walther barrel, Melonite finish inside and out with Nickel Boron M4 barrel extension. Melonite coated F-marked FSB, Melonite coated gas tube (stainless roll pin), and Melonite coated flash hider (indexed with stainless shims). Nickel Boron BCG.

The Adams Arms Base 5.45x39 Piston Upper:
Adams Arms 16” Carbine Barrel
1:8 Right Handed Twist
M4 feed Ramps
Chambered in 5.45x39 Russian
Melonited Piston Parts, Barrel, Bolt Carrier, and Flash Hider
Ionbonded 5.45x39 Bolt
M4 Style Handguard and Handguard Cap
Comes With 30 5.45x39 Magazine
Comes With Wolff Extra Power Hammer Spring

Right now, I'm tentatively leaning towards AA, due to easier cleaning and melonited BCG.

[Todd.K]

What are you going to do for mags?

[Chatterbox]

What are you going to do for mags?

ASC 5.45s

[jjw]

i would not do either. the winner in the club house is smith & Wesson's.

i have 3 of them and 1 is a 11.5" factory bbl given to me by Ernie langdon, before he left. all 3 work flawlessly. Cross gun is a poster here. we run together and plan on shooting 5x45 for the next 4-5 yrs.

nothing bad, all is good

ammo's is cheap aim/ask for Brian
magazines same same aim/ ask for Brian

new mags have a better spring than the old c-prod. same people just different name on the door. (easier than starting a flood)

Adams arms work but i am not a fan of piston Ar's. and yes i have the best in the world courtesy of L.A.V. just don't need them.
c.d.n.n. has them on sale for 499.oo better than the old price form s&w. have all of them. spikes were a special run for Brian and there may/may not be anymore.


umwv

ask, i am around if u need more. also little lebowski and cross gun know more than i do

[Chatterbox]

S&W makes an excellent 5.45 upper - however they are phasing out their M&P15R line (it's no longer on their website). Also, everything I've read indicates that melonite provides for equal or superior corrosion protection as compared to chrome while making for a smoother surface.

[Sid Post]

What are you going to do for mags?

I have a new Spike's upper with C-Products mags I'm hoping to run hard between Thanksgiving and New Year's. Do I need source something different or stock up on new springs? What's wrong with the mags.

[lethal dose]

Don't write the Smith off. My buddy has had great luck with his. I refuse to support Spike's unless it's free and, at this time, would never consider a piston AR. I won't get into details about either. I can assure you that the smith offering is good to go.

[Todd.K]

...C-Products mags

C-Products isn't in business anymore. I have not seen much availability of the ASC mags yet, (they ended up with the C-Prod machines from what I understand) the single source of mags should be a concern if you are buying an upper and 10K ammo.

[Sid Post]

C-Products isn't in business anymore. I have not seen much availability of the ASC mags yet....

Thanks Todd!

I should be set with 13 mags from CDNN and 13 cases of surplus ammunition. I hope to do some serious shooting in the 5 weeks off coming up. I wonder how long it will take me to load ~28K rounds and send them downrange ...... :D

If my M-16 gives up, I can always fall back to an AK-74.

Best Regards,
Sid

p.s. My dealer has a factory 8" Rogue Hunter in 300 AAC Blackout that came in for someone. That rifle has sold several others and some complete uppers I know of. Really great work there. ;)

[velodemon]

I have had an AA upper for 2.5 weeks. I have shot 760 rounds with zero malfunctions, except for the 1st 2 rounds due to a Bill Springfield trigger the would not reset. I let it sit for over a week before I cleaned it with zero corrosion. I am using p mags, windowed, rev m, loaded to 25 rounds. I bought the AA upper because the Spikes was unavailable. I'm glad I did. The bolt and carrier stay very clean with the piston system. I have had a lot of fun with this upper. No regrets.

[Suwannee Tim]

I have 2K through my Adams upper now with many malfunctions, all attributed to magazines. Hopefully I will have that resolved soon. If I load 12 cartridges they work fine. I haven't had a single malfunction I can blame on the upper. I like the idea of using a piston setup for corrosive ammo. And, the Adams kit and upper are very well made.

[Suwannee Tim]

I put in a couple of calls to Adams about my magazine problems. Eventually ( a couple of days) Matt returned my call. They are busy and not do not return phone calls immediately. (Same with LMT.) It would be nice if they had sufficient staff to answer calls or return messages immediately but in this very uncertain economic climate I can well understand their reluctance to put on more people.

[Dave-HuldraArms]

We have a 545 upper and 545 rifle in our line up, our manufacturing partner is Adams Arms. We have had really great luck with the piston system with the 545. We also did an endurance test with no lube or cleaning with a 545 rifle and the rifle made it to 4800 rounds before stoppages. Not trying to plug our product but just saying that I've been impressed with how the 545 runs. The surplus ammo isn't the most accurate but for training and the price, its hard to beat.

As far as mags go, we recently have been switching to ASC from C Products. Some of our rifles and uppers are still shipping/sold with a C Products mag, but our new stock and the extra mags we sell are ASC. We have found everything to be better with the ASC mags. The finish is better, the overall welds and condition is better and they function well and dont have the issues out of the box we had with some of the C products mags. We also haven't had any issues getting ASC mags, so on our end availability is good.

Not trying to sell you on our line but if you have questions let me know. The 545 surplus ammo is dirty, we haven't found any issues with rust or corrosion with the melonite barrel and ion bonded parts. If you don't get something with some coating etc, make sure you clean it well. A friend of mine ruined an AK74 by not cleaning after shooting surplus ammo.

The 545 is a good platform for training, I still can't believe the ammo is so cheap, we just bought a lot, and I mean a lot, so supply isn't an issue at this point.

Have fun with what ever you purchase.
Take care,
Dave

[kwilkin]

Any reason that no one has mentioned the LWRC? It's pretty pricey for a 5.45 blaster, but is probably the nicest 5.45 upper on the market. After that I would probably go Spike's because it has all of the corrosion protection. I don't think a piston is necessary on an AR but I would go against that with a 5.45 LWRC.

[Sid Post]

I have a Spike's upper in my possession and the LWRC is in-bound. I hope to run them both back to back during the Christmas holidays.

[Littlelebowski]

When S&W replaced my 5.45 barrel I burned out at 11k rds on their dime and paid shipping both ways in the duration of a week, I realized there is no point in getting anything else from practical standpoint. Not to mention that I'm on the same bolt and BCG still at around 20krds. Not to mention that my rifle shot right with Noveske and KAC rifles at Defoor and Vickers carbine classes.

[Nightvisionary]

Don't write the Smith off. My buddy has had great luck with his. I refuse to support Spike's unless it's free and, at this time, would never consider a piston AR. I won't get into details about either. I can assure you that the smith offering is good to go.

I would go with the Spikes. Can't speak to the 5.45 line specifically the Smith and Wesson M&P line in general is having regularly occuring issues with parts breakage, out of spec chambers, and other reliability issues. A quick search of the forums here will come up with a laundry list of issues with the S&W M&P.

[Littlelebowski]

I'd appreciate links to the M&P breakage here or privately. The 5.45 M&Ps I've seen run and run once the mags break in. I saw at least two M&Ps at the last Defoor class show excellent performance.

I will put my 5.45 M&P up against any 5.56 carbine. I shot against a very skilled shooter who was using a Noveske middy and it was always a tossup on our groups. That is about 1k rounds over two days from 300 yards and in.

[lethal dose]

o.p., don't know if i am supposed to do this or not, but here goes...

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92241

good deal on a solid setup. i'd jump on it if i were in the market for a five-four-five. to boot, it's being sold by a trusted member of our community.

[Nightvisionary]

I'd appreciate links to the M&P breakage here or privately. The 5.45 M&Ps I've seen run and run once the mags break in. I saw at least two M&Ps at the last Defoor class show excellent performance.

I will put my 5.45 M&P up against any 5.56 carbine. I shot against a very skilled shooter who was using a Noveske middy and it was always a tossup on our groups. That is about 1k rounds over two days from 300 yards and in.

Here you go.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=82739 (Not a malfunction issue but shows S&W doesn't want consumers to be educated about their product)

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=93397

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=93239

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=84397

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?82512-M-amp-P-15-not-feeding&

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/long-guns/43298-new-m-p-15-problem.html

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/ar-talk/158379-new-m-p15-problem.html

http://www.handgunforum.net/general-long-gun-area/13489-m-p-15-problems-help.html

http://www.smithandwessonforums.com/forum/s-w-long-guns/11321-problem-m-p-15-sport.html

[Dave-HuldraArms]

I'd appreciate links to the M&P breakage here or privately. The 5.45 M&Ps I've seen run and run once the mags break in. I saw at least two M&Ps at the last Defoor class show excellent performance.

I will put my 5.45 M&P up against any 5.56 carbine. I shot against a very skilled shooter who was using a Noveske middy and it was always a tossup on our groups. That is about 1k rounds over two days from 300 yards and in.

Just out of curiosity, what type of ammo are you finding to shoot the best? We have tried surplus but it seems the quality can vary from lot to lot for accuracy. We use surplus for our endurance testing and drills etc but would love to hear what ammo you are having the best luck with for classes etc.

Thanks and looking forward to hearing back from you.
Take care,
Dave

[Littlelebowski]

Just out of curiosity, what type of ammo are you finding to shoot the best? We have tried surplus but it seems the quality can vary from lot to lot for accuracy. We use surplus for our endurance testing and drills etc but would love to hear what ammo you are having the best luck with for classes etc.

Thanks and looking forward to hearing back from you.
Take care,
Dave

Surplus 53 grain works great for me. In my experience, it's 2 MOA ammo if you benched/prone and taking your time. Below is a 10 shot group after I adjusted windage from 100 prone using a 4 MOA red dot. Some may hate but it was a cold windy day at that Defoor class this spring at Blackwater.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/IMAG0074.jpg

[The_Hammer_Man]

+1 for S&W MP

BUT.. I also like the piston set up too. Due to the incredible filthiness of the ammo!

I installed a spare Osprey piston retrofit kit in my carbine and that went away. No issue of any kind since then that aren't magazine related.

I guess I got lucky. Out of the ten x 30 rd mags I've bought only one was "iffy".

[Dave-HuldraArms]

Surplus 53 grain works great for me. In my experience, it's 2 MOA ammo if you benched/prone and taking your time. Below is a 10 shot group after I adjusted windage from 100 prone using a 4 MOA red dot. Some may hate but it was a cold windy day at that Defoor class this spring at Blackwater.


Thanks for the info, nice shooting with surplus ammo.

[rdc0000]

Big sale on 5.45x39 S&W uppers..