Torn between a 16" HF Middy & DD HF 14.5"

[YWHIC]

I was looking at this 16" LW Hammer Forge Midlength Upper for $375 (http://accessoryarms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_7_21&products_id=80)

or the Daniel Defense 14." HF Midlength for $460.75 (http://accessoryarms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_7_21&products_id=76)

Both barrels are 1/7 CL MP/HP (the DD doesn't say it but I checked around and almost everyone says they are HPT'd)

I know DD is amongst the 'top-tier'.. and I can have them also pin/weld a PWS or YHM Phantom on for me to be legit..

Which 'animal' would you folks go with?? (the sale makes it enticing).. and the 6 days to ship vs. others lead times makes it even more interesting..

[amd5007]

I'd go the DD route. But keep something in mind, before you have anyone pin anything on, make sure you have made up your mind on a rail system. Once the pin is welded in place you can't really come back from that without paying someone to cut it.

[Iraqgunz]

I highly recommend you stay away from a pinned flash hider unless you are 100% sure that you will never want to change the configuration.

Yes, DD does HP/MPI test their barrels and bolts.


I was looking at this 16" LW Hammer Forge Midlength Upper for $375 (http://accessoryarms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_7_21&products_id=80)

or the Daniel Defense 14." HF Midlength for $460.75 (http://accessoryarms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_7_21&products_id=76)

Both barrels are 1/7 CL MP/HP (the DD doesn't say it but I checked around and almost everyone says they are HPT'd)

I know DD is amongst the 'top-tier'.. and I can have them also pin/weld a PWS or YHM Phantom on for me to be legit..

Which 'animal' would you folks go with?? (the sale makes it enticing).. and the 6 days to ship vs. others lead times makes it even more interesting..

[Col_Crocs]

How about this one instead?
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-light-weight-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw%20bfh.htm
It's not that much more expensive than the DD.
ETA: sorry to derail the thread but who is AA and why do they have a weapon with a BCM upper on their main site banner???:confused:

[Jay Cunningham]

I was looking at this 16" LW Hammer Forge Midlength Upper for $375 (http://accessoryarms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_7_21&products_id=80)

or the Daniel Defense 14." HF Midlength for $460.75 (http://accessoryarms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_7_21&products_id=76)

Both barrels are 1/7 CL MP/HP (the DD doesn't say it but I checked around and almost everyone says they are HPT'd)

I know DD is amongst the 'top-tier'.. and I can have them also pin/weld a PWS or YHM Phantom on for me to be legit..

Which 'animal' would you folks go with?? (the sale makes it enticing).. and the 6 days to ship vs. others lead times makes it even more interesting..

My question would be how well do you shoot a carbine? Have you had formal training or participated in several matches?

[YWHIC]

My question would be how well do you shoot a carbine? Have you had formal training or participated in several matches?

Shooting offhand (aka standing).. I manage 7" 50 (or so) round groups at 100 yards with irons.. I dunno if thats good or bad.

I'm getting better with over 2500 rounds thru my other 2 prior 223/556 uppers..

[Iraqgunz]

There are some offerings here that I would look at first. BCM can be trusted.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-16-M4-Upper-Group-s/28.htm

[Iraqgunz]

I don't think he means groups. I think he is referring to your overall accuracy and your weapon handling skills.


Shooting offhand (aka standing).. I manage 7" 50 (or so) round groups at 100 yards with irons.. I dunno if thats good or bad.

I'm getting better with over 2500 rounds thru my other 2 prior 223/556 uppers..

[Jay Cunningham]

I'm truly not trying to be a dick - seriously, there's no shortage of guys here who'll step up into that role.

What I'm going to say is that unless you are *very* accomplished with a carbine it pretty much won't freaking matter between the choices you listed in your original post.

I've seen guys with A5 buffer systems *and* mid length gas systems *and* battlecomps suck because their technique sucks - guess what? Hardware is not a replacement for software!

Now if you are a very kick-ass carbinero then your gear may be limiting you. So what I'm saying is to look in the mirror and ask yourself some questions.

[sgtrock82]

Personally Id stick with something 16" from a known quality manufacture. As mentioned above having a permed muzzle device will limit modifications you can make later as you figure out how you want it outfitted. Keeping it simple is also a good idea I wish I had listened to when I started off. Would have saved alot of money in parts that now either were sold off(at a loss) or reside in various boxes around the house as I keep going back to light and simple.

[pira114]

I personally don't think his having training or not makes much of a difference in selecting equipment. He can get training. And should. But not having it yet doesn't matter in selecting a quality weapon. I wouldn't recommend a new shooter start out with a piece of junk until they get trained. Having quality equipment would only serve to enhance training. We all probably agree on that.

As for the origional post, I'd be leary of that Aero one mostly because the description says you get a Spikes upper OR an Aero upper. Really? I'd like to know exactly what I was getting. Unless they are the same company with two roll marks and I don't know about it. Just never heard of Aero. Have zero experience with Spikes as well, but some say they're great, some say they're not.

Seems the few $$ don't mean THAT much to you so I'd have to vote for DD between the first two. If you add in BCM, then I say it's a toss up between DD and BCM for quality.

As for a pinned flash hider, IG is right. Make damn sure that's what you're gonna be happy with cuz you can't go back. I did it. And I'm hjappy. But if I want rails on my handguard, my options are very limited. But with the DD Omega rails, I'm fairly certain I'll be happy if I choose that route. For now, I'm happy with the MOE. So far. There are so many options available, that you can easily get what you want. Just need to figure that out first. But if you go for pinned and a monolithic type railed fore end, you're kinda stuck with that. But I haven't heard too many people complain about that.

[Iraqgunz]

You didn't read what was said. He said that the difference between the two uppers listed is essentially a nill and that the equipment in this case matters not.


I personally don't think his having training or not makes much of a difference in selecting equipment. He can get training. And should. But not having it yet doesn't matter in selecting a quality weapon. I wouldn't recommend a new shooter start out with a piece of junk until they get trained. Having quality equipment would only serve to enhance training. We all probably agree on that.

As for the origional post, I'd be leary of that Aero one mostly because the description says you get a Spikes upper OR an Aero upper. Really? I'd like to know exactly what I was getting. Unless they are the same company with two roll marks and I don't know about it. Just never heard of Aero. Have zero experience with Spikes as well, but some say they're great, some say they're not.

Seems the few $$ don't mean THAT much to you so I'd have to vote for DD between the first two. If you add in BCM, then I say it's a toss up between DD and BCM for quality.

As for a pinned flash hider, IG is right. Make damn sure that's what you're gonna be happy with cuz you can't go back. I did it. And I'm hjappy. But if I want rails on my handguard, my options are very limited. But with the DD Omega rails, I'm fairly certain I'll be happy if I choose that route. For now, I'm happy with the MOE. So far. There are so many options available, that you can easily get what you want. Just need to figure that out first. But if you go for pinned and a monolithic type railed fore end, you're kinda stuck with that. But I haven't heard too many people complain about that.

[pira114]

You didn't read what was said. He said that the difference between the two uppers listed is essentially a nill and that the equipment in this case matters not.

Caught me slippin! But I was thinking that the statement of "between the two listed" meant between quality and non-quality. I read what he said, just mis-understood his point.

[YWHIC]

I think they use Spikes Upper Receiver (or Aero Precision) depending on availability.. I know when I was shopping for a Spikes upper last year they were a PITA to get.. for me either one would be GTG.. Spider or Flag on top doesn't matter..

I'm no great shooter (unless I'm on a bag with a scope)..

I'll email them thru the contact page and see what they say though.

I'd do another BCM, but there out of stock 1/2 the time..

[YWHIC]

They emailed me back about 5 mins ago..

They 80% of the time use Spikes receivers.. if they run out they have to list the alternative they usually stock also (which is Aero Precision)..

Currently have Spikes receivers on hand..

There now offering a BCM 14.5" Midlength barrel on a Spikes Upper for $422.. ...so confused now..

I might just grab that and a YHM Diamond FF (in rifle length) and have them put it all together and pin/weld a brake on for me..

[YWHIC]

Now that I poked around the Troy 13" TRX Rail and the BCM 14.5" upper totals to $661.xx with the Phantom Comp weld/pinned on..

Still tossing ideas.. maybe by Friday I will have it figured out..

[Iraqgunz]

Are you talking about a YHM upper or rail? I wouldn't use any of their stuff to include rails.


They emailed me back about 5 mins ago..

They 80% of the time use Spikes receivers.. if they run out they have to list the alternative they usually stock also (which is Aero Precision)..

Currently have Spikes receivers on hand..

There now offering a BCM 14.5" Midlength barrel on a Spikes Upper for $422.. ...so confused now..

I might just grab that and a YHM Diamond FF (in rifle length) and have them put it all together and pin/weld a brake on for me..

[YWHIC]

I was talking there rail systems.. but Troy looks better and stronger..

[YWHIC]

Apparantly my email to them must have sparked them along..

They list the DD I mentioned above as being with Spikes upper receiver now.. (and dropped the 'or Aero')..

The other DD's says Spikes specifically also. and the the 14.5" Spikes Barreled Carbine lists the Spikes upper also (http://accessoryarms.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_7_21&products_id=62).. :happy:

They still have the others as Spikes (or Aero), but at least there listening..

They also added an email link to the top of the category page..

[uwe1]

Do not buy the YHM Diamond. I have, and wouldn't do that again.

[YWHIC]

Do not buy the YHM Diamond. I have, and wouldn't do that again.

Whats up with the Diamond or other YHM Quads?? I haven't seen anything bad about them..

[Jake'sDad]

There are some offerings here that I would look at first. BCM can be trusted.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-16-M4-Upper-Group-s/28.htm

Good advice, and I'm glad I took it.

As far as the 14.5" and 16", I like 'em both. But the 14.5 is the current house carbine.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m602/JakeandDad/BCM-1.jpg

[Col_Crocs]

Whats up with the Diamond or other YHM Quads?? I haven't seen anything bad about them..

YHM is not known for quality. I've read issues with the rail specs. My personal issue with it was their mounting system/method. I couldnt get it to line up with the upper at all.
The one I had, though not the Diamond model, was also quite heavy for what it was.

[uwe1]

Whats up with the Diamond or other YHM Quads?? I haven't seen anything bad about them..

My experience with the YHM Diamond was during late 2009 or early 2010, so if they modified the design, some of the things I've said may not apply.

The YHM Diamond and other YHM quads are extremely wide in diameter. After you add rail covers, if feels like you're gripping a can of soup.

They are machined very, very rough. Read, no dehorning process like the higher quality rails.

They are heavy as hell. Did I mention that after adding rail covers, they're as round as a can of Campbell's Chunky Soup? You can't forego rail covers on this rail because they're sharp.

I had some difficult times putting accessories such as VFGs on them. I tried TD and DD VFGs that would not slide onto the lower rail at all. Part of the problem was that the neck of the rail, the part that connects the rail to the body of the tube, was very short which caused things to hang up. I never mic'd the rails with calipers to see if they were in spec, but I do know that the DD and TD VFGs had no problems going on my DDM4's Omega X rail or my Troy Extreme tubes. Stupid local gun store that sold me the YHM Diamond said that they always have to hammer the TD VFGs onto the YHM rails they install, but "It's so solid afterwards that it's not going anywhere!"

Also, because of the round nature of the Diamond, it's not as easy to get lights mounted at 10:30 or 1:30 with certain light mounts. I had an Elzetta Zorm mount that when fully tightened down, kept making contact against the diamond cuts instead of just floating freely.

I'm no high speed operator, nor will I ever be, but even I can appreciate the difference between a quality rail and a POS that is obviously cheaper and made to look "tacticool" rather than be functional. The more you shoot your gun and take training seriously, rather than just plinking or shooting from the bench, the more you will appreciate the differences in the equipment. People justify buying YHM because they say that "It works as good as...." or "I am no operator, so I don't need....". Well the difference in price between a new YHM ($145) versus a new Troy TRX Extreme ($175) isn't very much. The weight difference is huge. The ease of use is obvious once you try them both.

I'm someone who has bought cheap and bought THREE times. I first bought a UTG rail and found it lacking, went cheap again with the YHM Diamond Specter length. I finally ended up with the Troy TRX Extreme and am very happy with it.