View Full Version : DSG Alpha holsters. . .a new player in Kydex.
Moose-Knuckle
11-20-11, 03:13
I have purchased parts and gear from these guys in the past but have no experiance with their house brand products.
I received an email news letter from them today announcing their new line of Kydex holsters and mag carriers.
With their price point, AVAILABILITY, and configuration I think DSG maybe a heavy contender in the holster game.
Alpha Holsters & Mag Carriers (http://dsgarms.com/Category/225_1/Holsters.aspx)
Whiskey_Bravo
11-20-11, 10:58
I was thinking about ordering one just to check them out, especially since they are actually stocking these.
I have been happy with their service in the past and I get stuff from them extra fast as I am pretty sure they are based about an hour from me.
hopefully they'll start offering LH mag & holster options.
Whiskey_Bravo
11-21-11, 12:25
I will post a quick review and a couple of pictures when mine arrives in the next couple of days. I ordered one for my 19 and then a single mag holder for both the 19 and an AR15.
ArRazorback
11-21-11, 13:03
I'll look forward to reading your review. The more quality producers out there, the better.
Raven should definitely take this as a compliment. And no, I'm not being a hater. Let's see how they hold up.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Moose-Knuckle
11-21-11, 15:04
Yes, please post any reviews.
I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on a holster and a double mag carrier.
SeriousStudent
11-21-11, 22:30
hopefully they'll start offering LH mag & holster options.
This.
If Charlie reads this thread, I'd love a LH AR mag carrier. I'm one of those weirdo's that shoots a rifle lefthanded, and a pistol righthanded.
So a mag carrier that is big and bulky is not a help.
And yes, I've hand very good service from DSG as well.
Good (and smart of DSG) to see them branching out with their holster lineup. Love the company and have had very good experience ordering from them. Wish them the best of success.
-Jax
polymorpheous
11-22-11, 10:04
DSG is a good outfit.
They are one of the handful of vendors that I give my money.
These holsters look like they lack a sweat shield.
Are these meant for OWB carry only?
The problem with ALL holsters is that if they use Kydex for the belt loops, it isn't a matter of "if" they will break, but when.
C4
The problem with ALL holsters is that if they use Kydex for the belt loops, it isn't a matter of "if" they will break, but when.
C4
The fatigue life of most plastics is terrible.
The fatigue life of most plastics is terrible.
Yep. The real problem with Kydez is that it has a grain (like wood). Have the grain going the wrong way and you can break a holster (either the spine or the belt loops) in short order.
C4
The problem with ALL holsters is that if they use Kydex for the belt loops, it isn't a matter of "if" they will break, but when.
C4
Grant,
I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think that the problem with belt loops breaking is easy enough to diagnose as using Kydex as the material. There are a lot of things that influence if belt loops - or holsters for that matter - will break. The material being used is just one part of the equation.
The real issue is workmanship. I absolutely don't believe that kydex is just "two pieces of plastic riveted together". There's a reason some companies are considered safe bets while others a gamble - whether it be durability or being able to quote an honest lead time. The "safe bets" will see great success while others struggle to keep up.
As far as belt loops, there are many factors in whether they will hold up or not. I'm not going to cover all of them - because some lessons need to be learned the hard way by the multitude of kydex shops coming to the scene. I think belt loops are the HARDEST thing to get right - and the most important aspect of the holster next to the draw.
One is thickness. The PSI ratings of the different grades of kydex are very high. There is some "give" in kydex that is safe. Go past this safe zone - and the plastic is fatigued. Think of putting a softball on a piece of cellophane wrap. It will sag and eventually bust through. Even though it didn't initially break - the wrap is still fatigued. Now add several more pieces of cellophane wrap - and you will eventually reach a point that can hold the softball forever without breaking.
Two is color. In plastics, colors are always softer then black. You can run PMAGS over with trucks and they hold up - but then you will hear about the Dark Earth ones having their feed lips crack. Colors have a lower threshold of fatigue.
Three - and in my opinion most important - is workmanship. When I see a picture of broken belt loops or holsters - I can usually tell exactly why it broke. I can almost guarantee that some holsters on the market - even at 0.093" - will break. It's usually at the spine of the sweatguard or at the trigger guard. Those who work with and really understand kydex will know exactly why they will break in this spot. I'd be willing to talk more about that via PM. But there are many factors that will make a belt loop last while others break.
Fourth is the material used. I think saying "kydex loops WILL break" is akin to saying that ARs not using a FailZero BCG will break. Kydex may not the ultimate material to use for belt loops - but on a user level it CAN be perfectly suitable and durable. It all depends on how it was made, thickness, grade, and design. On that note - I do not think Kydex T (even 0.125") is ideal, and we use a different (ie stronger) grade.
On a user / customer level - properly made Kydex loops will not be noticeably different then other synthetic loops. There is also the advantage of being able to have several different sizes and designs available. For example, a Browning High Power is a lot thinner then a Glock 21 - so it can be nice to have the belt loops reflect the dimensional differences so the holster rides closer to the body.
Now on a manufacturer / employer level - injection molded loops have the incredible advantage of saving money and speeding production up. Once the tooling cost is paid - the material is a fraction of the cost that Kydex is. More importantly though, it removes most human labor (the truly expensive part). The only way I've found to properly do belt loops with kydex requires each loop to be molded and finished individually from an experienced craftsman. This takes a ton of time - which means more labor cost and slower production. For those reasons, Kydex loops are a very poor choice - but that doesn't necessarily affect the customer. The other advantage to injection molded loops are that the cost of the initial tooling is high enough to "seperate" the more successful companies - who can then try and push them as being "mandatory".
I'm not saying injection molded belt loops are a worse choice then handmade kydex loops. That is certainly not true. But as far as functionality - they can be equal depending on who made what. I think a big problem is there is such a wide selection of kydex holsters right now, and most people can't spot what seperates the wheat from the chaff.
For example, I recently had a Border Patrol agent look me straight in the face and say "I won't run Kydex holsters because they push the slide out of battery". Now this is certainly not true of any company who knows what they are doing - but this man's experience with a company was bad enough to completely turn him off from Kydex holsters. So it's similar to someone having their belt loops break and swearing off kydex belt loops - without understanding it was most likely a design issue. I agree that the more options customers have - the better. But at the same time, when a company doesn't take the time to master their products - it can affect other companies poorly. The same can be said of spreading oversimplified information. I've heard everything from "anything thinner then 0.093" kydex on the holster body will break" to "I only use real guns because blue guns are so out of spec that they don't work for making holsters". A lot of times, people hear this and take it as fact - continuing to pass it around unkowingly.
I have never had any of our kydex loops break. I've never had a holster body crack yet (this includes many 0.06" holsters as well). The only items that have broken from my shop were 3 sets of open ended IWB Kydex clips - which is a completely different concept then closed ended loops (i.e. standard belt loops) - and most companies won't make these for that reason. Even here I believe I've found a solution that makes them durable enough to last without looking outside of kydex. But if I was a customer looking for a company to buy from - knowing what I know from working with Kydex and speaking with Kydex LLC at length about the material - I'd choose a company based on more important distinguishing factors then belt loops. First would be reputation, second would be their ability to quote (or overquote) an honest lead time, and lastly their level of experience. Practice makes perfect. There are hard learned lessons that you will learn only by repetition.
Every kydex holster company is still using kydex for their hard belt loops - in one form or another. Kydex LLC will flat out tell you that if you can't get belt loops made from Kydex not to break (considering the correct grade and thickness is used) then you aren't making them correctly.
Sorry for the rant - but I absolutely don't agree that using Kydex for loop material automatically means they are faulty. It's a much bigger issue - and by using that logic we would have to start saying that "0.08" Kydex T holster bodies WILL break" as some of the lesser thought out designs begin to break over time. Magpul and Tapco both make polymer magazines. One almost never fails while the other has issues. The material being used isn't the problem, its the design.
I do have a dog in this fight - as does the other side of the argument - but I am being completely open and honest about my experience on this issue - which I believe is to be expected on this site. I'm also not knocking any companies inparticular, and complimenting the companies who put in the time to master their trade. I don't think it's necessary to name who they are - because it should be pretty obvious at this point in time who knows what they are doing. If not, I hear Google helps.
Also, congrats on becoming VSM regional instructor. That's a huge accomplishment as a trainer. I'll be watching for the 14.5" LW BCM uppers to come back in stock. Can't beat your pricing.
Cheers.
Hey Steve. Very interesting stuff. Nice work.
For whats its worth... I find your website very difficult to navigate and desipher what products are. I'll admit I can be overly critical (I'm a webmaster). Think some more thought about navigation and layout could go a long way. Nice clean site though.
Will your weapon light holster hold the gun firmly w/o the light attached?
I've noticed that a holster were made to fit a WX150 but the bezel area was made 1/2 inch longer a holster that fits a WX150 would also fit an x300. Food for thought.
-T
Convertible to Inside the Waistband carry (NO additional hardware required)
How do they do this? I don't understand with the loops shown in their pics how this can be IWB. Are they saying that it comes with the additional clips so you don't need to buy more or that you can somehow use the loops?
SWATcop556
11-23-11, 01:55
Steve thank you for the info. Seems like you have an idea of what your talking about. Your input is always appreciated.
Sent you some PMs a while back. Shoot me a message sometime when you get a chance.
How do they do this? I don't understand with the loops shown in their pics how this can be IWB. Are they saying that it comes with the additional clips so you don't need to buy more or that you can somehow use the loops?
If not, you probably just flip the hardware from back to front.
It may not be a quick on/off option by the looks of the hardware tho.
Hey Steve. Very interesting stuff. Nice work.
For whats its worth... I find your website very difficult to navigate and desipher what products are. I'll admit I can be overly critical (I'm a webmaster). Think some more thought about navigation and layout could go a long way. Nice clean site though.
Will your weapon light holster hold the gun firmly w/o the light attached?
I've noticed that a holster were made to fit a WX150 but the bezel area was made 1/2 inch longer a holster that fits a WX150 would also fit an x300. Food for thought.
-T
T - not arguing there at all. Our website is homegrown by the person with the most web skills - which aren't the best. It's more of a problem since we have a lot of products on there. We will outgrow it soon enough hopefully.
Sounds interesting. Shoot me an email. I dont want to hijack DSG's thread anymore, but I didn't think they'd mind my post.
Steve thank you for the info. Seems like you have an idea of what your talking about. Your input is always appreciated.
Sent you some PMs a while back. Shoot me a message sometime when you get a chance.
Hey brother. M4C keeps locking up on me randomly, but I'm shooting you a message right now. Best to you, your men, and their families this holiday.
Well I went ahead and ordered one for a M&P9 fs.
Once it comes in I'll post up my thoughts on the holster along with some pictures.
ForTehNguyen
11-24-11, 16:05
pretty nice that you can get them molded with TLR1/X300, and convertible between OWB/IWB
I just received my DSG holster and I was going to write a review to compare it to the Raven. As I was going over my Raven holster I found a crack. I am going to send it back and wait for the new one. I think they have changed their manufacturing process since I purchased mine. I will wait for my new Raven to arrive to give a better comparison.
acaixguard
11-29-11, 09:54
Was the crack on the loop, or the holster body itself?
Was the crack on the loop, or the holster body itself?
It was in the holster body itself.
Dos Cylindros
11-29-11, 10:33
I recently picked up two of the Alpha holsters and have been using them for about a week. One is for a full size M&P 40 and the other is for a 40c. I immediately converted both to IWB use with Blade Tech loops and thus far they are pretty good. When worn IWB they ride very high, almost too much so. The molding is a little hit and miss with my two sampes. The full size holster is very tight, and during the initial practice draws, I was shaving plastic from the section where the holster is molded to the ejection port. The compact holster is much looser and I don't have the same issue as I do with the full size. I also ordred two single mag pouches and they are quality. They are a bit of a pain to thread on to my Ares Ranger belt, but not overly so. The loops that come on both holster and mag pouches are sized for 1.75" belts, not the 1.5 I wear off duty. The plus is the thickness of the Ranger belt won't let the holsters move anyway. They do have sweat shields, they are smaller than the standard Raven shield, but bigger than the reduced Raven shield. I immediately cut them down in size, as I detest sweat shields in general.
No pictures as of right now, but they are quality holsters with no wait. That being said, I am not going to cancell my recent Raven order which just went into production.
My DSG holster and new M&P9 both arrived yesterday so after a quick trip to the range to test everything out I'd thought I'd post up a quick review.
As this is my first kydex holster I am not going to do too much reviewing since I have no basis for comparison. Instead I will just do a very picture heavy overview with a few of my initial thoughts.
First off, the quality of the holster seems very good. The kydex is thick and molded to the gun nicely. Here it is set up in an OWB configuration.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/Tx1021/IMG_0815.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/Tx1021/IMG_0817.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/Tx1021/IMG_0811.jpg
As Dos stated previously, the holster came with a very tight fit. For the first 30 or so holsterings it shaved little bits of kydex off at several points. Is this normal for kydex?
After that though I would say the retention is just about right.
Some pics of the inside of the holster after an evening at the range.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/Tx1021/IMG_0812.jpg
One thing I do like is the cut out around the trigger guard, it lets you get a good grasp of the grip when drawing.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/Tx1021/IMG_0816-1.jpg
Overall in a OWB setup the holster is very comfortable and I did not find that it rode too high. Although, I do need a better belt if I am going to be carrying a full size pistol everyday.
For IWB I found the kydex belt loops that came with it to be lacking. Once again, a new belt would most likely help this but if I was going to be carrying this way on a daily basis I think I would opt for the Blade Tech loops. With that said though, here are a few pictures of the holster in an IWB configuration.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/Tx1021/IMG_0820.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/Tx1021/IMG_0819.jpg
Hopefully this helps someone out that is thinking about this holster.
If y'all want any specific pictures of something or any questions just let me know.
For the first 30 or so holsterings it shaved little bits of kydex off at several points. Is this normal for kydex?
Not unusual at all.
You should see it diminish over time, though you'll still see it from time to time, particularly in instances in which you might be drawing from an angle other than your usual.
Not unusual at all.
You should see it diminish over time, though you'll still see it from time to time, particularly in instances in which you might be drawing from an angle other than your usual.
Thanks for the info, I kind of figured this was the case but I haven't dealt with kydex before.
Thought I'd post my two cents...
I recently ordered several Alpha holsters, two for my M&P 45 FS (one with light and one without, and one for my Sig GSR 1911.
I ordered the two for my M&P because they looked like good quality, and were in stock. Since the only other holster I have that works with them is an older Serpa for my Glock 21, I figured I'd grab something now rather than wait on Raven. I ordered the 1911 holster simply because Raven hasn't gotten around to making holsters that fit the extra slide width that Sig 1911s have. The 1911 holster is backordered.
A few impressions:
-- I have FDE shavings all over the front sight when I draw...the sight channel sticks the left side of the front sight post right up against the Kydex. It's reducing visibly with each draw, but my Ravens never shave Kydex with the front sight. Hopefully it stops before my front sight gets much more shiny (it was a little shiny already, being a used gun).
-- So far, it's pretty comfortable, and the retention is very good. I'll wear it when I run some errands tonight and see more fully.
-- My M&P has the thumb safety, and there's no accommodation for it on the sweat guard. The guard isn't as long as the Raven guard, and I'm considering doing a Dremel job on it to bring it below the safety so it doesn't get pushed out by and polish the safety. There was no option for ordering to accommodate M&Ps with the safety
-- The bottom seam of both holsters is totally sealed, so no water drainage if you care about such things.
That's all for now...I think it might be time to go put in another Raven order and wait for a while.
hopefully they'll start offering LH mag & holster options.
are these ready to ship?
Seem to be shipping extremely fast I ordered a black one for my G19 with TLR-3 on Tuesday tracking number says expected delivery tomorrow! Wow now here is hoping the quality is as awesome as it looks.
I now have 2 - one is for a 90's vintage non-railed P229 and the other is for a railed P226/P220 (both circa 2004) with a mounted Surefire X300.
The one for the non-railed P229 is on the tighter side and seems to secure the weapon at the trigger guard. I can turn the holster upside down and shake with the weapon securely retained. The draw requires a little more upward force that my Raven Concealment holsters, but it is not so severe as to induce a wedgee. I've seen a few shavings, but nothing of concern.
The one for the railed 220/226 with Surefire X300 is noticibly looser and lacks the faint snap that the 229 has when reholstering. Both my stainless P220 and lighter Nitron P226 fall from the holster after a few shakes while inverted. This may be due to the holster sharing retention points on the light and frame that is less secure than the trigger guard method on the P229. To be fair, I've noticed that only my RC holsters will consistently retained all lighted and non-lighted weapons when vigorously shaken from an inverted position. My Secret City K25 for my Glock will also dump the pistol after a couple of shakes.
As for the belt loops, they seems to be of sturdy construction. The ride when carried OWB seems a tad higher than my other Kydex holsters. It is very comfortable and the holster stays at my side at the 3 or 4 o'clock positions, but it is not quite as snug as my RC or SC. I've not yet spent enough time in the IWB configuration to render an opinion on this carry method with the Alpha Holster.
Overall, this is a reasonable alternative to the the other Kydex brands. I still prefer my RC holsters - especially for weapons with mounted lights. I did order a 3rd holster for my FNP 45 Tactical w/X300 which is still on back order. This one may get some surgery if I decide to take advantage of the red dot mounting platform and pull the trigger on a RMR...
Anyone running one on a war belt?? How well does it attach to MOLLE? I'm thinking of a new holster to got with my Infidel belt.
Thanks.............
I just got mine in for my G19 w/o light. I ordered a black right handed model. The holster seems to be very well made, and I have not noticed any shavings from holstering/unholstering. My one complaint is that the holster does not ride as snug to the body as I had hoped it would. I am used to using an MTAC inside the waistband, so I will have to be mindful that this holster definitely causes more printing. It also sticks out the bottom of sweaters, etc. Definitely will only be usable for CCW in the winter for me, when I wear a longer coat. I am not a person who "dresses around the gun."
My one complaint is that the holster does not ride as snug to the body as I had hoped it would. I am used to using an MTAC inside the waistband, so I will have to be mindful that this holster definitely causes more printing.
Similar situation with me. I'm used to my Supertuck with my G26 and have found more printing when carrying OWB than I'd like, even with quality gear from quality manufacturers (PSS). I'm not sure I should expect IWB concealment from an OWB holster, although I'm open to hints/suggestions on how to improve the concealment of an OWB holster.
I feel like owb of any make wont be concealed without jacket or something that baggy.
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