View Full Version : Best F/A BCG?
Between Colt, LMT, and BCM which makes the best BCG for the money?
If you want the best VALUE, I'd say BCM.
Any one of those are great but you will pay more for the Colt. The BCM or LMT will cost the same.
Although, I do own several Colt and L.M.T. B.C.G. and do not own a B.C.M., for the money/value I would say B.C.M..
cgdonley
So you start a thread on ARFCOM about how this site seems to bash Busmaster...
and in another thread over there your post this:
I was glad to see on this forum people have constructive input and don't as a rule blash the crap out of othere's choices of ARs like on the Kool-Aide drinkers forum.
Then you come over here to ask all the "kool-Aide" drinkers there advice...
What's the matter... not enough "expert" advice over at the other sight???
Classy.........:rolleyes:
Oh Harv
The last time I posted here there were some VERY juvenile responses, so I've waited a long time to post here again. I want to get the best BCG so I posted it both places to get all opinions. Those that I was reffering to before have not responded yet, so take no offense as it was not directed at you or anyone who has replied to this thread. But remember that my "Cool-Aide" remark was a pun not poor spelling.:eek:
LMT and BCM would be the best bang for the buck.
I've got Colt, LMT and CMT brands.
cgdonley
Oh Harv
The last time I posted here there were some VERY juvenile responses, so I've waited a long time to post here again. I want to get the best BCG so I posted it both places to get all opinions. Those that I was reffering to before have not responded yet, so take no offense as it was not directed at you or anyone who has replied to this thread. But remember that my "Cool-Aide" remark was a pun not poor spelling.
actually your experience is the total opposite of mine. I usally find the other site to be "Juvenile.
I like and post in both sites... Both sites are very different and I just don't like to see the two pitted against each other. I believe this site is pretty good about not baiting the other one.
The Bushsmaster thread here is a good example... The technical merits of that manufacturer were discussed and debated for all to see and make up there own mind, but what happens is the Bushy owners come over here.. read it and feel they need to defend there choice so they run back over there and yell how everyone is a elitist snob and are clueless. The technical data to support the finding are completely ignored. the professional experience of Industry pro's are ignored and the Shirtless 22 yr old Oly owner over at TOS suddenly bocomess the resident Expert on AR's.......:rolleyes:
You have to understand that this site as a whole is dedicated to the more serious side of AR's so the content and the posters are more serious and the profesional ratio over here is wayyyy higher.
Very few industry pros post over there as they get told to STFU cause they don't know anything. So they post here instead (which should be a clue in itself).
The other site has some good info, but way to much "white noise" created by posters who have no real experience and don't use there AR's for much more then fun at the range.. bumb firing and such(That Shirtless 22 yr old again..). Nothing wrong with that.. but not what this site is striving for.
It irks me a little when I see posters from TOS (The Other Site) talk trash about this site.. and in reality those are the posters that no one with any knowledge would ever listen to or take any advice from as they have no clue what they don't know.. and don't know it. unfortunately a new inexperienced guy does not know there clueless either.. and may heed there advice. (kinda like Ray Charles teaching Stevie Wonder how to drive.....;) ).
It's too bad.. cause there are some good guys over there that have a lot of knowledge to impart.. but get drowned out by the knuckleheads. and the site is to large for the moderators to be everywhere.
To answer your question .. A BCM or a LMT BCG are both good to go...... Why??
Cause they are both manufactured to a standard and follow that standard to the letter. That means all the right materials are used.. all the QC testing is done to standard and a superior product is the result. Which means they will hold up better under stress vs some that may work fine under normal firing conditons (Low rate of fire, limited heat built up between strings, low rd count over years,etc).
Why do I see so much hate directed at AFRCOM? It has some VERY good resources (QUIB, and others) that I have not seen bashing anything/anyone.
However, a lot of other forums also seem to find ARFCOM offensive (I even got banned from one because it was an FN site and I questioned some things there that were obviously incorrect and that coupled with mentioning my prior experience (almost excluseive) with AR15's). They immediately thought I was bashing anything that wasn't AR15 and I even got accused of being an ARFCOM troll. What is the deal? I have not seen this behavior at AFRCOM, but others have :confused:
Why do I see so much hate directed at AFRCOM? It has some VERY good resources (QUIB, and others) that I have not seen bashing anything/anyone.
Like Harv said. There's a lot of good guys over on ARF. But they're far outnumbered by a dopier level of dirt shooter.
WS6
Why do I see so much hate directed at AFRCOM? It has some VERY good resources (QUIB, and others) that I have not seen bashing anything/anyone.
Did you even read my post???
There is no hate.. it just on a different level. When you have a site that large.. it's like a big city vs. a small town.. your gonna have things like higher crime rate because you have a higher percentage of knuckleheads who populate it.
I like the site and enjoy most of my time there.. but it amazes me how anyone can get any good info out of there with the noise ratio.
And if you read my post you will see that I was addressing the original poster of this thread who actually came over here and then went back and made a comment about this site. That started a 7 page thread where a lot of posters decided to bag on this site for being elitist.
The noise ratio is very low on this site.. and we like to keep it that way.
And believe it or not.. a lot of the guys who I thought were very good over there, actually now come here mostly as they to tired of dealing with the Boneheads who always seem to drown out the good ones.
Why do I see so much hate directed at AFRCOM? It has some VERY good resources (QUIB, and others) that I have not seen bashing anything/anyone.
The signal to noise ratio seems to be better here.
And for the original topic.
I've had good luck with my limited sampling of 2 BCG's from the FN contract groups that Grant sales. I also have a few Sabre and CMT ones that have been fine. Not that I can perceive the difference though.
Oh Harv
The last time I posted here there were some VERY juvenile responses, so I've waited a long time to post here again. I want to get the best BCG so I posted it both places to get all opinions. Those that I was reffering to before have not responded yet, so take no offense as it was not directed at you or anyone who has replied to this thread. But remember that my "Cool-Aide" remark was a pun not poor spelling.:eek:
Interesting about "last time I posted here" as you have all of two posts on this account. I hope you don't have multiple accounts on here as that is a no no.
Please post a link to the "juvenile responses."
To the best of my knowledge, there are no "kool aid" drinkers on this forum. Just folks that want quality and won't make sacrifices.
C4
I don't have the link as the first time I posted was when I first opened the membership. The subjet matter of that post was how to make a BM as reliable as a 6920. Some of the members responses here were less than constructive. I joined over here to read what Pat Rogers has to say and research some threads as yes I had heard that this site had more professionals online. As you see I waited a long time to post again. My slam was directed to those who previously gave less than professional responses. So here I am again posting a question and have gotten the answe I'm looking for, I'll go with the BCM BCG. All resonses have been constructive, thank you.;)
I don't have the link as the first time I posted was when I first opened the membership. The subjet matter of that post was how to make a BM as reliable as a 6920. Some of the members responses here were less than constructive. I joined over here to read what Pat Rogers has to say and research some threads as yes I had heard that this site had more professionals online. As you see I waited a long time to post again. My slam was directed to those who previously gave less than professional responses. So here I am again posting a question and have gotten the answe I'm looking for, I'll go with the BCM BCG. All resonses have been constructive, thank you.;)
Most of the time everyone on here is straight to the point and that could be viewed different ways by someone new to the board. So if you werent welcomed before Welcome! The question about making a BM as reliable as a 6920 probably made those here roll there eyes as this isnt possible.
The signal to noise ratio seems to be better here.
And for the original topic.
I've had good luck with my limited sampling of 2 BCG's from the FN contract groups that Grant sales. I also have a few Sabre and CMT ones that have been fine. Not that I can perceive the difference though.
Thanks for summing it up and sorry to hi-jack. I have just noticed a lot of "TOS" and "BARF.com" comments on this site and others (This site it is mostly "TOS") and I wondered if I had somehow missed something.
I will say I took apart all the AR's in the closet at my dad's house when I first discovered gas key staking. My restults
AR10M4: Weak staking
Bushmaster:None
Colt CAR:Classic Colt, good
Mutt:None
Colt 6601: see CAR
DPMS: Upper/lower were so tight I did not wish to scratch the finish on the take-down pin and so opted to take the lazy way out and not worry about forcing it open as it has not been shot yet so no need to clean.
If I were to buy a BCG I would buy a Colt, SDI, LMT, basically any brand on RobS's chart that is tested/staked RIGHT.
Most of the time everyone on here is straight to the point and that could be viewed different ways by someone new to the board. So if you werent welcomed before Welcome! The question about making a BM as reliable as a 6920 probably made those here roll there eyes as this isnt possible.
Thank you for the welcome.
I have purchased a Colt 6920 since my original post here and will be purchasing another in two months.
So you feel that even with the F/A BCM, LMT, or Colt BCG the BM will still lag behind the Colt? The BM is the 16" Patrolmans Carbine model with the CMC trigger, hydraulic recoil buffer, CCA grip, La Rue fixed buis, XS 24/7 front post, free float quad rail, and I only use CProducts s/s mags. With 4k rds through it I've had zero malfunctions. 1000rds of those were put through it in a little over 3 hours.
The 6920 has all the above options except for the CMC trigger which is in the mail.
Thank you for the welcome.
I have purchased a Colt 6920 since my original post here and will be purchasing another in two months.
So you feel that even with the F/A BCM, LMT, or Colt BCG the BM will still lag behind the Colt? The BM is the 16" Patrolmans Carbine model with the CMC trigger, hydraulic recoil buffer, CCA grip, La Rue fixed buis, XS 24/7 front post, free float quad rail, and I only use CProducts s/s mags. With 4k rds through it I've had zero malfunctions. 1000rds of those were put through it in a little over 3 hours.
The 6920 has all the above options except for the CMC trigger which is in the mail.
Putting lipstick on a pig, still makes it a pig. You can strap as much after market goodies on the weapon you want, but it still will not change the steel used, testing down, QC/QA performed on the weapon, internals used in the lower. A new development in BM ongoing struggle with QC is barrel threads that are off center or barrels that are not reamed properly.
You mention that you have 4K through your BM without a single malfunction. How many of those rounds were in training classes?
My personal weapons (that I build by hand using only the best) have malfunctions in training classes. This is normal as the magazine is the weak link in the system and there is no way to get away from a mag induced malfunction.
C4
You mention that you have 4K through your BM without a single malfunction. How many of those rounds were in training classes?
Not in a formal class but 1000rds were in about 3 hours during our move and shoot drills here in West Cocoa FL. The barrel was so hot it burned
through a small piece of wood I leaned it against. This was when the rifle was new. I just took it out of the case cleaned it and lubed the crap out of it with FP10 then headed out for our informal range. I did a 50 yard zero then started the move and shoot drills. Since then there have been another 3k rds through it at between 400-600 a session nothing crazy but still I never baby any AR. With all my 16" carbines they are shot offhanded, prone, kneeling, and crouched. The rate of fire is usually doubles, triples, and bump fired.The only time they are benched or slow fires is for zeroing, (is that a word?) or 100yrd head shots on counter sniper targets.
I thought the BIG issue Pat Rogers has seen with BMs, during his courses, was the bolt breakage and gas key staking issue? I have heard of the barrel indexing problem I think you're reffering too, as well as the lack of park. under the fsb mine has neither of these issues. In fact my gas key is heavly staked from the side as it should be not the top. Now I don't know if the fasteners are grade 8 or not? Maybe I got a good one? That's why I thought if I replaced my bcg with a Colt, LMT, or BCM the biggest of the QC issues would be taken care of?
The rifle shows the MP markings on the barrel. Is it true BM does this without actually testing individual barrels but by lot testing? If so is this not some kind of false advertising? How can they get away with that? I haven't really heard of barrel failure with many ARs anyway but the practice of random testing then marking all barrels seems pretty cheesie for a company as big as BM?
You mention that you have 4K through your BM without a single malfunction. How many of those rounds were in training classes?
Not in a formal class but 1000rds were in about 3 hours during our move and shoot drills here in West Cocoa FL. The barrel was so hot it burned
through a small piece of wood I leaned it against. This was when the rifle was new. I just took it out of the case cleaned it and lubed the crap out of it with FP10 then headed out for our informal range. I did a 50 yard zero then started the move and shoot drills. Since then there have been another 3k rds through it at between 400-600 a session nothing crazy but still I never baby any AR. With all my 16" carbines they are shot offhanded, prone, kneeling, and crouched. The rate of fire is usually doubles, triples, and bump fired.The only time they are benched or slow fires is for zeroing, (is that a word?) or 100yrd head shots on counter sniper targets.
I thought the BIG issue Pat Rogers has seen with BMs, during his courses, was the bolt breakage and gas key staking issue? I have heard of the barrel indexing problem I think you're reffering too, as well as the lack of park. under the fsb mine has neither of these issues. In fact my gas key is heavly staked from the side as it should be not the top. Now I don't know if the fasteners are grade 8 or not? Maybe I got a good one? That's why I thought if I replaced my bcg with a Colt, LMT, or BCM the biggest of the QC issues would be taken care of?
The rifle shows the MP markings on the barrel. Is it true BM does this without actually testing individual barrels but by lot testing? If so is this not some kind of false advertising? How can they get away with that? I haven't really heard of barrel failure with many ARs anyway but the practice of random testing then marking all barrels seems pretty cheesie for a company as big as BM?
A new BCG does fix some issues, but not all. Meaning, that just changing out your BCG does not make it a Colt or LMT. BM still uses the cheapest parts they can find for everything.
BM MP test in batches, but chooses to mark each barrel. They were called on it many years ago.
In the Class 3 world, there have been some cans that have a new exit hole because the thread pitch was off or the barrel was not reamed properly.
C4
They were called out on the batch testing but they still continue the practice?
They were called out on the batch testing but they still continue the practice?
Yes. Also remember that if you don't HP test before you MP, then it is basically worthless. BM does not HP test.
C4
The rate of fire is usually doubles, triples, and bump fired.The only time they are benched or slow fires is for zeroing, (is that a word?) or 100yrd head shots on counter sniper targets.
Whats Bump Firing have to do with training?
Yes. Also remember that if you don't HP test before you MP, then it is basically worthless. BM does not HP test.
C4
Whats HP test?
Whats Bump Firing have to do with training?
Absolutely nothing other than blowing through a bunch of ammo to make sure the rifle can hold up to sustained rapid fire. It's usually the last thing I do before packing it up and heading home, a great way to get rid of any amo you don't want to take home.:cool:
Absolutely nothing other than blowing through a bunch of ammo to make sure the rifle can hold up to sustained rapid fire. It's usually the last thing I do before packing it up and heading home, a great way to get rid of any amo you don't want to take home.:cool:
I fail to see the logic behind this "training." A rifles dependability can be judged through dedicated with accurate shots. Every shot counts, and using a manner of fire that I see as undisciplied is not going to accomplish anything. Add in the cost of ammo and one is screwed.
Run drills, put each round where you want it and you'll be on track. There is a reason we never used burst on our M16's, through training one can put down a high level of fire but still be accountable for the round he/she sends down range.
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