Marines, what say you about the TA31RCOA4CP

[lowprone]

I ended up buying an entire M16A4 upper to finish my AR project.
I mated it with a Colt AR15 Law Enforcement M4 lower that has a
Canadian A1 length A2 style full length stock to approximate the
M16A4 the Marine Corps uses and I am about to pull the trigger on
a Trijicon TA31RCOA4CP 4X scope and would appreciate any feed
back from any Marines who fielded this combination across the pond.

[Failure2Stop]

The only reason to get an RCO is to build a clone of the most despised weapon system the Marine Corps issues.
If you want a shooter, there are much better options out there.

[Nightvisionary]

The only reason to get an RCO is to build a clone of the most despised weapon system the Marine Corps issues.
If you want a shooter, there are much better options out there.

Why do you say the M16-A4 is despised? When we used A2's many years ago they were very well regarded. The addition of quality optics would seem like a great thing.

[kihnspiracy]

What would you recommend as an optic for a 20 inch flat top 5.56 AR?

[Jaysop]

What would you recommend as an optic for a 20 inch flat top 5.56 AR?

Why not a quality 1-4?

[Failure2Stop]

Why do you say the M16-A4 is despised? When we used A2's many years ago they were very well regarded. The addition of quality optics would seem like a great thing.

The RCO is weak-sauce, the A4 LOP in armor is terrible, combined with the short eye-relief of the RCO it seriously compromises your fighting platform, really long for vehicle work and enclosure clearing, and no more effective at long range than the M4.

What we were carring when I first came in ('97) is vastly different than what I was carrying on my last deployment ('11), and available knowledge and skill has expanded astronomically.


What would you recommend as an optic for a 20 inch flat top 5.56 AR?

The big questions really are: what do you want to do with it, and how much are you willing to spend?

[kihnspiracy]

I was thinking about a NF 1-4. Maybe $1200 for a good scope, covers and a mount.

[TehLlama]

The TA31 does nothing a good 1-4x can't. It is marginally cheaper, day/night illuminated without batteries, and the FOV is a tiny bit better, but you're relying on the BAC to make fast hits up close. Not bad for a 20" rifle with the long A2 stock, but you can be light years ahead with a telescoping stock (VLTOR A5 as an example) and variable tube optic - a bit more cost, but a phenomenal difference when compared to wielding our issue musket configuration.

The TA31 is a quality optic, but it's hobbled by it's very tight eye relief (I have a pair of ESS eye shields with an extremely pronounced divot where the optic hits when I'm shooting KD - I have pictures of the bloodied nose bridge that came along with this. Not a pure negative in terms of accuracy (still shot a 331 with all that) but it's an annoyance when prone or in a tight kneeling position.
Odd shooting positions start to become compromised very quickly. A low powered variable isn't a lot better, but I do feel the improvement over the TA31 in this regard alone is worth the cost difference.

I'm pretty decent with the M16A4/RCOA4 configuration, but by no means is it my favorite.

[JSantoro]

If the focus is to get an ACOG for this gun, consider the USMC SDO variant of the TA11 (with or without the RDS on top).

What little is lost in the .5x less magnification is made up for in an extra inch of eye relief. It's not an unfair assessment to say that it's the ACOG the Corps probably should have chosen, having chosen that path to take.

[masakari]

The TA31RCOA4 is an awesome optic. Fantastic field of view, clear and crisp glass, perfect reticle at any range. That said, performance wise, the TA11 is superior because of the eye relief, and the field of view is slightly larger because of the .5 less magnification and 3mm larger objective.
i love the M16A4, have ever since i turned in my A2 for one. Yeah its long and the stock sucks, but its very versatile, rugged, and reliable, a true combat arm.

[lowprone]

Obviously I have considered the drawbacks of a full length rifle IF I WAS, fighting from an armored vehicle, clearing buildings or a whole
plethora of unpleasant activities, but I'm not.
I do have a rifle already with the A1 length stock, so that helps, I can
get the optic very reasonably priced from a friend, LaRue makes a mount that addresses the eye relief issue to some degree. I am just
going to use it to shoot coyotes from my jeep this winter and want to know if it is a good optic for a 20" barrel rifle and greenies, of which I
have a lot. Also have a lot of coyotes.

[masakari]

Obviously I have considered the drawbacks of a full length rifle IF I WAS, fighting from an armored vehicle, clearing buildings or a whole
plethora of unpleasant activities, but I'm not.
I do have a rifle already with the A1 length stock, so that helps, I can
get the optic very reasonably priced from a friend, LaRue makes a mount that addresses the eye relief issue to some degree. I am just
going to use it to shoot coyotes from my jeep this winter and want to know if it is a good optic for a 20" barrel rifle and greenies, of which I
have a lot. Also have a lot of coyotes.
Yes, it will do great for that job

[Failure2Stop]

Yes, it will do great for that job

Then again, you could also spend $700 less on other optics that would do just as well in that application.

[lowprone]

I know that Marines fielded a rifle very similar to this one, and as a former Marine I know that when issued this rifle they learned what this combination of rifle, scope and ammunition could do in the hands of a
0311.
Just as we learned to use the M16A1 to it's full capabilities even though we longed for our M14 rifles or even the NVA's AK47 we used what we were issued and made the best of it.
I wonder just how precise this combination can be? I have read some
accounts of combat in Fallujah and how it was used in this configuration.
I know there are lots of rifles that are superior to this but this is what I have.

[TehLlama]

What the RCO was in it's time was the ability to identify and discriminate targets at longer range with a BDC that improved hit probabilities at these extended distances without giving up too much capability up close - and being durable enough to be basically Marine-proof.
That said, I know plenty of people who are simply garbage with the RCO within 100m, while I have no problem with it up to contact/point shooting distances, so as a general idea a low powered variable is still going to make more sense.

[R0N]

If you are mostly shooting at intermediate distances than the RCO is good other than the previously mentioned short eye relief problem

Trijicon really benefitted from being tested at the time OIF kicked off. Because of that they have made what a billion dollars from the US military?

[JSantoro]

Put an RCO-equipped A4 in the hands of somebody who's trained to SHOOT, and the same gun with the bestest, mostest trickedest-outest and cat-tailed variable on the market EVAR!!!, the shooter with the "inferior" optic will smoke the other one. Same with the reverse.

Bottom line is, if you have a no-shit A4 rifle, and get the A4 RCO that's no-shit made for that gun, and shoot M855 as it's designed to provide BDC for, you're good. Even if you go with a different ammo, knowing what it'll do is a simple matter of shooting the gun with that ammo and noting how it prints in relation to your reticle.

I watched, with my own eyes, in 2007, a Marine (who, like me, is best described as a "competent" shooter, not a sniper/DM/30th-level Paladin elf, or any of that) put two rounds of M855 right next door to each other in the spine of an IED trigger-man on a mototcycle.....at 700m. He was aiming between the shoulder blades, and they hit in the center of the dudes back, most likely because he was racing away from us, going uphill. He wasn't dead, but everything from the entry wounds down on his body may as well have been. :sarcastic:

The gun and the optic can do what the shooter wants it to do, if the shooter does his part. If you can get it without paying balls-out retail, all the better.

That LaRue mount you're talking about does a pretty good job of solving the eye-relief issue for all but the most short-armed and -necked of unarmored folks, on top of being less of a PITA than the usual TA51 mount.

[lowprone]

Thank You, this is the kind of feedback I was looking for, I suppose I could have done a better job of detailing my project. My friend will sell
me the optic for $700 in about perfect condition, used but not abused.

I was looking for feedback from actual in theatre users and how they
view this combination. I like the 20" barrel, it has a very good trigger,
the short Canadian stock and with the addition of the scope I trust this
will make a very nice rifle.

The coyotes ate VERY EDUCATED around here and a rolling blind with
snow camouflage parked just below the crest of the hills around here
should prove just the ticket, combined with this rifle combination in reducing the coyote population.

My friend lost 100 lambs and ewes this last spring and the state legislature has even approved the property owner shooting coyotes from snowmobiles and such to stop the depredation.