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View Full Version : 22 conversion vs dedicated 22 upper



fortibus85
11-20-11, 22:00
Hello. I am an occasional handgun shooter (roughly 20 range trips in the last 2 decades) who has recently become more tuned in about the value of my 2nd amendment rights. I purchased a basic home defense shotgun about 6 months ago, and recently a S&W M&P 15. (We have many fewer choices of AR-15 model weapons here in California).

I am joining our local rod and gun club, and plan to learn to shoot my new rifle, along with my 14 and 16 year old sons. I can't afford for us to learn all the rifle basics shooting .556, so I plan to use a lot of .22 ammo (and for fun we will finish off each trip with one magazine of .556).

Our club has 25, 50 and 100 meter rifle ranges.

My question is about the pro's and con's of buying a drop in .22 conversion kit for about $200 versus buying a dedicated .22 upper for about $400. I'd rather spend $200 and put the leftover money towards better optics and magazines, but I don't know what I am giving up (if anything) in bypassing the dedicated upper.

Thanks!

North
11-21-11, 01:08
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-571793.html

crossgun
11-21-11, 05:09
After owning all of the options I will make this easy on you. Buy a S&W M&P 15-22. BEST of all the options and works.

zxd9
11-21-11, 11:58
+1 on the S&W 15-22. It's the closest thing to an AR-15 in terms of form and function.

Silent
11-21-11, 21:21
I agree with the SW 15-22, I have one and it has quickly become one of my favorite guns to shoot. Even when using the not recommended ammo it still eats them up. I have also run it in several courses with no issues and saving $$$$

fortibus85
11-23-11, 20:20
Thanks fellas

usmcvet
11-27-11, 20:01
I bought a 15-22 for our officers to use for cheap training. It works well. The weight and feel is quite different. I'm looking forward to buying a CMMG .22 upper to use on an SBR. The weight/feel should be closer. The recoil will obviously not be.

sgtrock82
11-28-11, 20:02
I would definitely recommend a dedicated, purpose built 22LR. While youre average AR has a twist rate of 1/7-1/9 a .22LR is something like 1/16. I havent owned a conversion, but have had a custom dedicated upper for years. Id always heard the conversions were minute of beer can at best.

jaxman7
11-29-11, 10:42
Definitely if this is being used to emulate the real thing go with the M&P 15/22. I wouldn't even consider the Colt or Mossberg version.

-Jax

usmcvet
11-30-11, 09:38
I have an old A1 upper and I am thinking it would be a perfect host for a CMMG drop in conversion unit. What was the original twist rate 1/12?

eternal24k
11-30-11, 11:00
I have been torn between the two for awhile.
I was going to get one of the cheapo 1:9 DSA uppers and a CMMG kit, but DSA is way back ordered.

I wish CMMG offered their upper with a shorter barrel and fixed front sight.

plaskon
12-04-11, 09:50
+1 for CMMG, specifically their dedicated rimfire uppers.

usmcvet
12-04-11, 10:34
I have been torn between the two for awhile.
I was going to get one of the cheapo 1:9 DSA uppers and a CMMG kit, but DSA is way back ordered.

I wish CMMG offered their upper with a shorter barrel and fixed front sight.

I noticed brownells had cmmg .22 bbls for less than $100. If you have an upper kicking around it might. E a good option. I have a 16" cmmg M4 upper on the way we could meet up and shoot it! I might have it cut. Out for now it is perfect for a spare LMT lower I have.

usmcvet
12-04-11, 10:51
I have been torn between the two for awhile.
I was going to get one of the cheapo 1:9 DSA uppers and a CMMG kit, but DSA is way back ordered.

I wish CMMG offered their upper with a shorter barrel and fixed front sight.

I noticed brownells had cmmg .22 bbls for less than $100. If you have an upper kicking around it might be a good option. I have a 16" cmmg M4 upper on the way we could meet up and shoot it! I might have it cut. But for now it is perfect for a spare LMT lower I have.

Id like to find an A1 upper to use for a .22 build. Nodak had some but they're gone.

incognito
01-08-12, 04:08
I went through the same decision not long ago for a teaching tool for my 13 year old nephew. I went with the S&W 15-22, and I am glad I did. The 15-22 has run great.

One thing that I did not think about before, but is just as valuable as the actual shooting in my eyes, was him really taking ownership of the 15-22. He carries it, he cleans it, he is responsible for it from the time I take it out of the safe until it is safely returned at the end of the day.

orionz06
01-09-12, 07:23
As an owner of a TacSol upper I think the 15-22 is the better option. The TacSol upper runs like a top but has some tinker time associated with it, the 15-22 just works for everything that you would need it to do.

HeavyDuty
01-09-12, 08:39
After decades of screwing around with M261 conversions I built a dedicated .22LR AR a few years back. Best thing I ever did.

Mine has been in two configurations now - first as a carbine and now as a midlength. I built it on a caliber marked lower with Ballistic Advantage barrels (both times) and a dedicated Spike's bolt. I later added a CMMG last round bolt hold open device.

Each configuration was intended to more or less duplicate my main 5.56 AR at the time, when I moved from a carbine to a midlength the rimfire was rebuilt. The biggest difference is that the .22 has an Aimpoint clone, I couldn't see spending the money for another ML-3 for the .22, the mount hurt enough.

I'd do it all over again. I don't have the budget to shoot as much 5.56 as I used to, so it provides me with a lot of trigger time for cheap. I highly recommend dedicated rimfire ARs as a training tool.

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/ac123/HDF62/AGP-1-and-AGP-22.jpg

Wake27
01-09-12, 11:46
I'd heard a lot about reliability issues with any conversions so I got the 15-22 as well. Awesome weapon. And it is lighter, but that's not necessarily bad. Especially if you're using it to teach kids or females... Other than that, the ergonomics are the same.

Suwannee Tim
01-09-12, 20:56
I bought a 15-22 for our officers to use for cheap training. It works well. The weight and feel is quite different. I'm looking forward to buying a CMMG .22 upper to use on an SBR. The weight/feel should be closer. The recoil will obviously not be.

That's why I converted an LMT MRP to 22 LR. Not cheap but except for the bolt stop not working it handles just like an AR because it is an AR.

Wake27
01-09-12, 22:39
For me, the weight wasn't as much of a concern as all of the parts functioning. Otherwise I would have gone with the Colt/Umarex .22. But, to each his own.

fortibus85
05-26-12, 17:54
As a follow-up for those interested, I am posting a short debrief.

First of all, thank you to all who provided input and advice.

I ended up going with a conversion, for the following reasons:
- Cost
- Wanted exact same weight and operation/feel. I am teaching myself, two kids and perhaps my wife how to use this and wanted to simplify the training aspect. Heck, I had never even cleaned or stripped an AR-15 before.
- I do not own any optics, so there were no "old" or "passdown" optics to use on a dedicated 22. No passdown BUIS either!
- Target shooting/accuracy is not an issue for my family. We are wanting to shoot a lot of rounds and learn basic rifle handling and familiarity.

After checking to see what other conversion kits were available, and reading the reviews I could find, I went with a Target Master .22 conversion kit. It was about $75-$100 cheaper than CMMG.

We have put a little over 1,200 rounds through it, with only one (maybe two) jams. I am very pleasantly surprised.

Thanks again to everyone!

G-lock
05-28-12, 11:52
Not to rain on your parade, but how can you have the same feel/operation without the ability to lock the bolt back or a last shot BHO?

It was for these reasons I chose the M&P 15 22, now if I could get a BAD lever I'd be styling...

usmcvet
05-28-12, 11:59
The 15-22 is great for what it is but it feels like a toy in my hands. I like the weight/feel of the CMMG upper I have. The bolt hold open is worth it for me. Neither has the same length of pull on the charging handle either. I almost Rip the thing off when I pull on it.

fortibus85
05-28-12, 23:58
Anyone got an umbrella? :)

When I bought it I didn't realize it would actually operate differently, even if only slightly. I haven't put many .556 rounds through it, less than 100 or so, and wasn't familiar with how the AR is supposed to operate at all. Sooo..., I did eventually notice that the bolt holdback is different.

Nevertheless, buying a $125 Target Master makes it that much easier for me to get a quality optic. Jumping in to this world with only a Glock 19 and four people to teach (including myself) is a high learning curve, and high dollars.

HeavyDuty
05-29-12, 08:11
Disregard, misread a post...

G-lock
05-29-12, 08:33
Understood. The kits can work well, I sold my Ciener kit and mags for about half wat the 15-22 cost. Good luck! Jeff

Red Rezin
07-23-12, 15:18
Really enjoying my M&P 15-22. Bit pricey, sadly you could get a full Spike's AR for a little more.

ryr8828
07-23-12, 17:24
Really enjoying my M&P 15-22. Bit pricey, sadly you could get a full Spike's AR for a little more.

I only paid $400 for my sw mp15- .22, they must have went up.

usmcvet
07-23-12, 17:37
Yeah my sons 15-22 was expensive but it was a tricked out one. The second I bought was $400.

zimm17
08-01-12, 13:29
I still vote for the M&P 15-22 (for anyone else researching this topic). It's an awesome gun. Plus you get 2 AR's out of it so you and your son can both shoot at the range without swapping uppers.