View Full Version : Training goals for Wife (Carbine and Pistol)
I'm at a loss for where to seek training and resources that go beyond reading and watching DVD's for her to substantially improve and mostly gain confidence in her ability to shoot.
Specifically, she mentioned not feeling adequately prepared for a formal carbine course, which in a couple regards I would agree that she is underprepared, but in others I'm confident (should I be?) that she can perform adequately.
Another limitation is time - my being deployed and her being in a rather demanding bit of education limits how much we can really cover, and having access to only certain range facilities further limits this development.
The last part is that I've resorted to surrogate training in many instances before moving to full live fire, and I'm worried some minor training scars might persist (using airsoft as well as .22lr conversion kits)
Right now she's very confident and able to fire the entire USMC Table II and IIIA courses of fire, and some limited variations of that. She's not convinced that she's really ready on these, but she'd be in the top 5% among any of those work shoots I've done. The muscle memory isn't ingrained, but she can perform speed and tactical reloads proficiently (haven't assessed under time pressure).
The biggest area lacking is confidence in pure fundamentals from KD shooting (BRASS, trigger control, reset), as well as pistol basics.
Transitions are something I'm going to work on extensively (not exclusively for her benefit), as well as improving basic pistol manipulations until those are muscle memory at least on the draws and reloads.
The last part is a fear of the unknown thing - she hasn't had somebody other than myself or her close friends (who are actually good shooters) helping with this, so items like malfunction clearance is something I've taught at a more simplistic level, and her concern is that this is going to be a liability when moving onto items like bolt-over malfunctions or snap decision making between clearing the carbine or transitioning.
Any help would be welcome. I'm still reasonably sure she'll come out of a formal class shooting certain things better than I can (having to unlearn certain stupidity, and she is brilliant) but if that confidence isn't there I can see her getting very little from a course.
Gutshot John
11-22-11, 07:22
Husbands setting a training regime is a recipe for failure. Let her and an instructor work that out.
Husbands training their wives is fertile ground for a divorce. (I exaggerate, but only slightly) You should have seen the wailing and gnashing of teeth that occurred when I tried to teach my wife how to drive a stick shift. :rolleyes:
There is too much emotional investment so that when you try to correct them, they feel like they're either disappointing you or you're criticizing who they are.
Make the investment into a private or semi-private series of lessons which you DO NOT attend, watch or sit drinking coffee in the parking lot.
Be patient, supportive and encouraging...oh and write the check.
I've already been looking into those options, and I'll see what I can come up with, but the other limitation is time.
Also, this would need to be in Central NM, and I don't have the luxury of a phone or being awake the same part of the day to call people and ask around.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-22-11, 12:54
What about some IDPA/USPSA/3-gun competitions. Not really training pre se, but would get her manipulating the gun and add some time crunch/pressure to her shooting. Wouldn't replace training, but a way to get her thinking about what she wants to improve on.
Buy her two cases of ammo and a slot at the next and nearest Carbine I class in the area and tell her to have fun. Trust me, it works.
Failure2Stop
11-22-11, 15:22
I highly recommend finding a female instructor for one on one fundamental instruction before dumping her into a class full of dudes.
In a perfect world it wouldn't matter, but must of us don't live there.
Individual instruction is generally the best way to go for a new/uncertain shooter, and trust between student and instructor is very important for meaningful progression. I have given individual instruction to numerous females and the first hour or so is a bit tense until they realize that I am really just teaching and won't spend the day hitting on them.
There might be some differences in what an instructor will teach and what you think is "right", but a day or two's worth of instruction, evaluation, and performance will greatly increase confidence to the level where you can attend a class together, which is one of the coolest things to see, and will let you establish your common ground.
This is good advice.
To the OP, there are VSM's that will travel out of their GEO location for a class (especially if it is warm where you are during the winter months). ;)
We teach and have taught a lot of female shooters (to include my wife) so let us know if we can help.
C4
And people should not be discouraged thinking that it will be "too expensive". While each instructor may charge a different rate, I was able to get a lot of training for my money. The one on one training was actually less expensive that a multi-day carbine course.
As I stated earlier, it is money well spent.
Look for a basic carbine course, an honest to good basic class. One that assumes you have no clue which end of the rifle the bullet comes out of. They're out there, they probably wont have a big name attached to them, but they'll build a solid foundation.
-Jenrick
I'm looking for entry level courses, but I'm pretty sure she can shoot to that standard already - I'm willing to shell out more money for something more matched at her pace, even if it's coupled up with something like a CCW instruction class.
The group I'm looking at seeking training through does some modified IPSC as well as three-gun competition, so that's something I'm interested in for both of us, but I'd rather focus on basic defensive proficiency before putting too many resources on competitive shooting.
If she's lacking confidence then a basic class is the way to go. Doesn't matter if she can out shoot everyone there or not, she needs to get comfortable in the environment of a class. Since she's able to shoot pretty well already, based on your description, she should have a very positive experience in her class and be comfortable going to something that is a bit challenging.
-Jenrick
A couple of other possible options:
The Ayoob Group basic first course , formerly called something like "LFI- 1 , Judicious Use of Deadly Force " . The older version included both basic handgun shooting and " ... the legal , moral , ethical and practical parameters of the use of deadly force and deadly weapons by private citizens in self defense . " The current version is called " Rules of Engagement for Civilians " . I suspect that a combo of the RoE for Civilians followed by instruction in carbine shooting from the Vickers instructors would ideal for anyone who is new to quality , formal , self defense training.
Both Vickie Farnum ( sp ? ) and Gila Hayes have authored books and offered training specifically designed for women. I own books by both women but those books are not currently at my fingertips.
Pat Rogers will have an article on this topic in the newest edition of SWAT magazine. Having heard his thoughts on the subject, it should be a good article.
I'm at a loss for where to seek training and resources that go beyond reading and watching DVD's for her to substantially improve and mostly gain confidence in her ability to shoot.
Specifically, she mentioned not feeling adequately prepared for a formal carbine course, which in a couple regards I would agree that she is underprepared, but in others I'm confident (should I be?) that she can perform adequately.
Another limitation is time - my being deployed and her being in a rather demanding bit of education limits how much we can really cover, and having access to only certain range facilities further limits this development.
The last part is that I've resorted to surrogate training in many instances before moving to full live fire, and I'm worried some minor training scars might persist (using airsoft as well as .22lr conversion kits)
Right now she's very confident and able to fire the entire USMC Table II and IIIA courses of fire, and some limited variations of that. She's not convinced that she's really ready on these, but she'd be in the top 5% among any of those work shoots I've done. The muscle memory isn't ingrained, but she can perform speed and tactical reloads proficiently (haven't assessed under time pressure).
The biggest area lacking is confidence in pure fundamentals from KD shooting (BRASS, trigger control, reset), as well as pistol basics.
Transitions are something I'm going to work on extensively (not exclusively for her benefit), as well as improving basic pistol manipulations until those are muscle memory at least on the draws and reloads.
The last part is a fear of the unknown thing - she hasn't had somebody other than myself or her close friends (who are actually good shooters) helping with this, so items like malfunction clearance is something I've taught at a more simplistic level, and her concern is that this is going to be a liability when moving onto items like bolt-over malfunctions or snap decision making between clearing the carbine or transitioning.
Any help would be welcome. I'm still reasonably sure she'll come out of a formal class shooting certain things better than I can (having to unlearn certain stupidity, and she is brilliant) but if that confidence isn't there I can see her getting very little from a course.
A beginners carbine course sounds appropriate. In this regard, as long as she practices range safety she is properly prepared. You don't go to a course to excel, but to learn and get better. You excel when you apply and gain proficiency with the training.
A beginners carbine course sounds appropriate. In this regard, as long as she practices range safety she is properly prepared. You don't go to a course to excel, but to learn and get better. You excel when you apply and gain proficiency with the training.
I am one who was recently pushed out of my comfort zone when the Mister paid for a surprise present in the form of a Magpul Carbine 1 class. Prior to the course, my experience on the AR platform had been limited to nomenclature, basic loading, unloading, reloading, and shooting a total of no more than 500 rounds through a rifle - just enough to pass an agency qualification course of fire.
TehLlama, given your description of her previous training and existing abilities, IMHO, an equivalent level one course with a reputable training group would be the best way to go.
Before the class, I was apprehensive about my existing rifle shooting and handling skills (or lack thereof), and also of the "only female in the class" scenario described above, and how that might affect my experience and the instructors' approach. I was worried about being treated with kid gloves. All of this was dispelled shortly after the class began, when my brain and muscle memory bank were filled with more important material - the fundamentals of rifle handling and deployment and how these things would develop and, in time, improve my skills.
As far as existing abilities going into a Level One class, my "entry level" classmates consisted of people from all levels, from beginner (no formal training) to guys who could have skipped this level for the Advanced course without blinking an eye. I think many of the students could have walked into a standard/formal qualification course of fire and passed just fine.
The point is this wasn't a class to help us score high on a qualification course of fire, or to see how we all compared to each other. It was a course that focused on engraining the fundamentals of handling and deployment of the rifle. The second point is that regardless of skill level, I think all of us would agree that there is always great benefit from three days of highly effective training under the watchful eyes of quality instructors. I guarantee that no one left this course feeling like the course failed to rise up to their respective skill levels. Also, even with the large group, somehow, an instructor could always catch me if I did something poorly or could comment on something I had done correctly.
What helped prepare me? In retrospect, it helped me considerably that I had taken one-day level one Tac Pistol course from instructors whose training is compatible with MD's - recognizable concepts that seem to translate well to the rifle, etc (reloads in your workspace, shooting fundamentals, tac reloads, malfunctions, etc); but also safe weapons handling, and exposure to a class training environment. In addition, watching MD's DVDs helped immensely for the same reasons. The DVDs also allowed me to preview the course format and instructor styles.
Is there anything more I wish I had done to prepare? Sure. I should have spent more time working on my upper body strength so that muscular fatigue didn't affect my accuracy and handling as much. I should have brought better elbow and knee pads. Perhaps study up a little more on the zeroing process (the differences in distances used, etc.) in case my rifle and optic failed to zero. (Not likely, as the Mister had already pre-zeroed the rifle and its back up) Perhaps walk around the house with a slung rifle so I could get used to carrying considerations when I am not deploying it.
Would it have been nice to have a private course? Absolutely. The comfort level and sole access to a trusted instructor is nice, but a group setting also allows a student to learn from things other students do, both good and bad. Other students often ask questions you hadn't thought of, or didn't have the guts to ask yourself. Other students give you the opportunity to see what gear or weapons components work (or don't).
One last note. I, as well as many of the students, travelled a pretty good distance to attend the course. Don't let distance or cost scare you away. We turned it into a nice vacation. The Mister was present at various times, not to monitor my training/progress, but to check the condition of my equipment to keep me in the game. It helped that he had already ensured that I would likely not have any equipment needs -- he was able to go do his own thing for 3 days.
sgtjosh's quote above is a phrase that truly sums up the attitude I should always take into a training course. Simply because you don't know what you don't know. And once you find out, you can improve.
After reading the OP's comments I would also suggest the private instruction route or an all female entry level course if you can find one. A top notch female instructor would be a plus but not necessary if you have a high quality professional instructor. Even though she is experienced I say an entry level course because this is more than likely the best environment to work on the fundamentals end of things. Any advanced courses and she might be inclined to push her pace to keep with the outline of the course, when in reality it sounds like she needs some good alone time with the fundamentals. I am a stickler when it comes to learning fundamentals in what I feel is a correct or proper learning progression. Moving on too quickly often causes a shooter to cheat themselves of their true potential or when reverse engineering it takes a lot of time and effort. This sounds like the case with your wife as she has a confidence problem on the fundamentals side of things, which is often caused by moving too quickly, or what I might feel is an incorrect progression in the learning process.
For myself, I have also personally given private instruction to a few female shooters and even a couple ladies who basically had their first experiences touching a firearm. My ability to find the correct way in which to make them comfortable and to be able to very effectively teach in a manner that puts them at ease is definitely a strong point of mine which is the same for male or female shooters. However on the other hand, I had a hard time teaching my wife, or even my own mother, how to shoot. I also preferred someone else to do the ground work and then I fine tune it. So yes, getting good outside instruction is a good thing. Funny how this works. :)
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