View Full Version : Unintended Consequences For Only $499.00...
Amazing the asking prices for this now out of print book.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/unintended-consequences-john-ross/1001770498
http://www.amazon.com/Unintended-Consequences-John-Ross/dp/1888118040/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321984300&sr=8-1
http://compare.ebay.com/like/150543838713?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y
Glad I got mine for about $12. Wish I had kept a few extra copies. I'd flip mine but it is one of the few books of fiction that I will read, and that is mostly for the documented firearms history in the book.
montanadave
11-22-11, 12:59
A book I have not read but will put on my list.
As an aside and at the risk of appearing to be a complete psuedo-Luddite, I am continually amazed by this whole intergoggle/cyperspace/techtoy nexus. Within five minutes of reading Steyr's post about this book, I was able to locate a PDF file of the book online, download it to my laptop, upload it to Amazon's Cloud, and have it installed on my Kindle Fire so I can read it at my leisure.
Probably seems boringly routine to most, but to some of us that grew up waiting for the bookmobile to come by the school once every couple of weeks it's pretty ****ing amazing.
A book I have not read but will put on my list.
As an aside and at the risk of appearing to be a complete psuedo-Luddite, I am continually amazed by this whole intergoggle/cyperspace/techtoy nexus. Within five minutes of reading Steyr's post about this book, I was able to locate a PDF file of the book online, download it to my laptop, upload it to Amazon's Cloud, and have it installed on my Kindle Fire so I can read it at my leisure.
Probably seems boringly routine to most, but to some of us that grew up waiting for the bookmobile to come by the school once every couple of weeks it's pretty ****ing amazing.
Right there with ya. I'm still stunned by 12 year olds with cell phones and cheap night vision. When I was a kid in the 70s the best we had was Star Trek walkie talkies with 2 foot antennae that kinda worked across the street and some crappy Japanese binos.
About 5 years ago when I was trading movies online with a guy in Japan the enormity of it all really hit me.
As a kid who took "Yeah we've already been to the moon" for granted, it would be interesting to know what todays kids will be floored by.
NCPatrolAR
11-22-11, 15:23
Maybe now's the time to offload that worthless book
Suwannee Tim
11-22-11, 16:23
From Publisher's Weekly, "Like the notorious and paranoid The Turner Diaries, this novel may speak to readers on the fringes of American society...."
Is that us? The fringes of American society? That's a good thing!
Not a bad investment after all. :D
Magic_Salad0892
11-22-11, 17:31
The Turner Diaries was a ****ed up book.
Maybe now's the time to offload that worthless book
I actually rather enjoyed it. While the last part was only slightly better than they typical "second revolution/restore the republic" redneck fantasy and only quality writing when compared to nonsense like "The Turner Diaries", the first part of the book is actually remarkable for the documented history of the firearms culture, noted individuals and notorious abuses of power.
Factor in the general "freedom" theme and the lack of the commonly encountered racist slant and it's one of the few books of fiction I can read more than once.
The Turner Diaries was a ****ed up book.
Written at a 4th grade level and it still went slightly over the heads of most of it's target audience. I have an affinity for dangerous books.
Mein Kampf
The Anarchists Cookbook
On Guerrilla Warfare
If somebody thinks a book should be banned or regulated that is usually enough motivation for me to read it. I also enjoy propaganda films that make people uneasy, especially WWII propaganda films.
That said, The Turner Diaries is one of the few that was so painfully stupid I couldn't get through it and just stopped.
the first part of the book is actually remarkable for the documented history of the firearms culture, noted individuals and notorious abuses of power.
That's one of the things I like most about the book as well. Events in history like the Bonus Marchers, the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and several others rarely make it into print much less people actually learning about them in school. There are quite a few lesser known facts and history in the book that I can appreciate.
Heavy Metal
11-22-11, 18:30
The Turner Diaries was a ****ed up book.
I read a friend's copy of the Turner Diaries. I wanted everone to die in the end. Everyone was evil.
It always saddens me when The Turner Diaries get mentioned during any discussion of Unintended Consequences. They are as completely unrelated as discussions of Obama and the Unabomber. The only thing they have in common is demonstrating that the people making such comparisons have absolutely no idea what they are talking about or they know and are engaged in a deliberate campaign of misinformation.
Unintended Consequences is a factual look at the erosion of freedoms (especially those related to firearms) in the 20th century and the anticipated result of a continuation of abuses resulting in something like a police state and the justified citizens resistance to a tyrannical government.
The problem for some is the hypothetical police state is not Oceania or Nazi Germany but a future US where the JBTs have familiar names from the current US government and are loosely based on members of Congress. This is of course no more significant than realizing that Hitler was once simply "chancellor" of Germany and that all despots start out someplace.
The Turner Diaries on the other hand is a futuristic racist fantasy where white people "rise up" and unite in the bonds of common skin pigment to destroy the current US government and create a new "white homeland" for white people similar to that of nazi Germany. It is not about freedom but about imposing a white racists will upon the entire country.
For some reason some folks are able to find parallels between the two ideas, but I suppose Obama does sound a little bit like Unabomber. Even if that is all they actually have in common.
The Turner Diaries was a ****ed up book.
And that was why Publisher's Weekly (and others) made comparisons between the two, a veiled implication that the book is racist and maniacal.
Belmont31R
11-22-11, 20:44
It always saddens me when The Turner Diaries get mentioned during any discussion of Unintended Consequences. They are as completely unrelated as discussions of Obama and the Unabomber. The only thing they have in common is demonstrating that the people making such comparisons have absolutely no idea what they are talking about or they know and are engaged in a deliberate campaign of misinformation.
Unintended Consequences is a factual look at the erosion of freedoms (especially those related to firearms) in the 20th century and the anticipated result of a continuation of abuses resulting in something like a police state and the justified citizens resistance to a tyrannical government.
The problem for some is the hypothetical police state is not Oceania or Nazi Germany but a future US where the JBTs have familiar names from the current US government and are loosely based on members of Congress. This is of course no more significant than realizing that Hitler was once simply "chancellor" of Germany and that all despots start out someplace.
The Turner Diaries on the other hand is a futuristic racist fantasy where white people "rise up" and unite in the bonds of common skin pigment to destroy the current US government and create a new "white homeland" for white people similar to that of nazi Germany. It is not about freedom but about imposing a white racists will upon the entire country.
For some reason some folks are able to find parallels between the two ideas, but I suppose Obama does sound a little bit like Unabomber. Even if that is all they actually have in common.
People who are anti-freedom, even if they won't admit it to themselves, use comparisons such as this to label all far right people as such. Racists, terrorists, militia members waiting to overthrow the government, ect.
Just like every lefty Ive ever met is ready to throw out McVeigh as an example of a "far right wing nut" and use him to libel all far right wing people.
Nazism and nationalist socialists are LEFT WING and has nothing to do with American right wing politics, especially those of libertarians. :mad:
When I was a kid in the 70s the best we had was Star Trek walkie talkies with 2 foot antennae that kinda worked across the street and some crappy Japanese binos.
I had them too :D
Magic_Salad0892
11-22-11, 22:17
Written at a 4th grade level and it still went slightly over the heads of most of it's target audience. I have an affinity for dangerous books.
Mein Kampf
The Anarchists Cookbook
On Guerrilla Warfare
If somebody thinks a book should be banned or regulated that is usually enough motivation for me to read it. I also enjoy propaganda films that make people uneasy, especially WWII propaganda films.
That said, The Turner Diaries is one of the few that was so painfully stupid I couldn't get through it and just stopped.
I like stuff like that too, but The Turner Diaries just made me ****in' mad.
It made me want to beat up Racists, and in that book they were just pointless acts of terrorism and hatred, made to look like patriotism. And it bothered me that the cover of the book featured and AR-15, and a 1911. Both of which (to me) symbolize freedom, Americanism, and overall badassery.
Also... didn't they bomb the FBI headquarters in that book? When was that book written? Like...3 years before the Oklahoma bombing?
Know anything about the guy that wrote that book? He used to be the head (or directly associated with) of the Neo Nazi party in the 1970s.
Or something like that.
My facts might be off on those two things I mentioned, I've been drinking. Maker's Mark does bad things to my memory.
I like stuff like that too, but The Turner Diaries just made me ****in' mad.
It made me want to beat up Racists, and in that book they were just pointless acts of terrorism and hatred, made to look like patriotism. And it bothered me that the cover of the book featured and AR-15, and a 1911. Both of which (to me) symbolize freedom, Americanism, and overall badassery.
Also... didn't they bomb the FBI headquarters in that book? When was that book written? Like...3 years before the Oklahoma bombing?
Know anything about the guy that wrote that book? He used to be the head (or directly associated with) of the Neo Nazi party in the 1970s.
Or something like that.
My facts might be off on those two things I mentioned, I've been drinking. Maker's Mark does bad things to my memory.
The only thing I was mad about was that I read so much of it before I stopped. I don't mind racist psychobabble "if" it's well written. But that is a difficult thing to find, if you are intelligent enough to be a good writer then you can usually see through blatant racist mindsets.
And yeah, the actual author was William Pierce who was head of Aryan Nations and the Christian Identity movement. Not exactly surprising.
McVeigh actually was using it as a blueprint for his actions. He actually believed he was starting the second revolution and striking back for events like Ruby Ridge and WACO. Only instead of blowing up FBI headquarters he blew up a building full of people lucky enough to have government jobs (who ironically probably held similar views about the government) and a day care full of kids.
Magic_Salad0892
11-23-11, 00:57
The only thing I was mad about was that I read so much of it before I stopped. I don't mind racist psychobabble "if" it's well written. But that is a difficult thing to find, if you are intelligent enough to be a good writer then you can usually see through blatant racist mindsets.
And yeah, the actual author was William Pierce who was head of Aryan Nations and the Christian Identity movement. Not exactly surprising.
McVeigh actually was using it as a blueprint for his actions. He actually believed he was starting the second revolution and striking back for events like Ruby Ridge and WACO. Only instead of blowing up FBI headquarters he blew up a building full of people lucky enough to have government jobs (who ironically probably held similar views about the government) and a day care full of kids.
I didn't know about that part. That's heartbreaking.
William Pierce. That was the guy's name. Thanks for that.
What is ''On Guerilla Warfare''?
This is a little off topic, but I think it's pertinent to the conversation. Has anyone read or seen the storyline behind the new Rainbow 6 video game coming out next year?
I just read about it a few days ago and I have to say I was disturbed.
The bad guys in the new Rainbow 6 game are " domestic terrorists"! That's right white, middle class, gun owning "survival nuts".
Anyone who knows anything about Tom Clancy knows this man has his finger on the pulse of what the intelligence communities consider the biggest threat to them and the "county". I never thought I'd see the day where a video game would have people playing an elite gov't hit team targeting gun owning americans!!! What's even scarier is that our gov't is doing so many effed up things to this country that they know and fear repurcussions!!!
Look at the direction this country is going and tell me this is where anybody on this forum envisioned this country to be? American business moving overseas to avoid paying their taxes. Having to fight for jobs against foreign immigrants (if you think it's just mexicans coming here to pick lettuce and mow lawns then you're lying to yourselves). Women and children being abducted almost daily in the news.
I look and listen to people my parent's age. My stepfather who is a retired Col. and a 3 tour veteran of Vietnam has been one of the most patriotic people I know. I can see the betrayal and pain in his and his friend's eyes when they talk about what has happened to this country. It's a damn shame and at this point I don't know if it can even be fixed by simply voting Republican against Democrat. I think all of the politicians are shady and have thier own agendas.
I really think that the founding father's of this country would say that the country is taxing and not representing the majority of the people. That the country uses slight of hand sensational news stories to distract people from the truth. :ph34r:
While I'm at it I might as well go full blown crackpot :jester: and also state, and this is just my personal experience watching the weather in South Texas, there is something wrong with the environment. The drought and the heat that we have been experiencing in South Texas over the past decade is unheard of. I'm just saying that there is a lot of things not right with both the country and the environment in my opinion.
Belmont31R
11-23-11, 04:07
While I'm at it I might as well go full blown crackpot :jester: and also state, and this is just my personal experience watching the weather in South Texas, there is something wrong with the environment. The drought and the heat that we have been experiencing in South Texas over the past decade is unheard of. I'm just saying that there is a lot of things not right with both the country and the environment in my opinion.
Its not just you.
Another summer like last one and we are going to look somewhere else to live. The temps we have seen here since we moved here are all WAY above the "average" for the summer months, and we hit 114 locally one day plus MANY other days 105+.
If someone wants to live in an oven thats up to them but it flat out sucks with young kids trying to get out and do stuff. They sat cooped up for 3 months straight this year only going out right before dusk to play with the neighbors kids. Theres no way a 5 year old kid is going to take being out all day in 105+ or 110+ like we got a few times.
I didn't know about that part. That's heartbreaking.
William Pierce. That was the guy's name. Thanks for that.
What is ''On Guerilla Warfare''?
Yeah, McVeigh was a real piece of work. He actually thought he was going to start a popular uprising with a bunch of dead kids.
On Guerilla Warfare by Mao Tse-tung (http://www.amazon.com/Guerrilla-Warfare-Mao-Tse-tung/dp/1442166711/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322069388&sr=8-1)
On Guerrilla Warfare by legendary revolutionist Mao Tse-tung is widely considered to be one of the greatest books of all time amongst revolutionaries. For many, On Guerrilla Warfare is required reading for various courses and curriculums. And for others who simply enjoy reading literature on warfare, terrorism, revolutions, and the like.
SW-Shooter
11-23-11, 12:19
If anyone wants to offload a copy at a reasonable price I might take it, I've never read it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-23-11, 16:43
A buddy sent me this for my kindle. Its not written very well, but I keep it on my mac for "the revolution" haha. Bracken's books are a little better and more entertaining.
And to those who talk about "dangerous books", piss off. What your mind does with written word is your choice, not the author's. The only thing dangerous about books is that idiots try banning certain ones.
Doc Safari
11-23-11, 17:02
From Publisher's Weekly, "Like the notorious and paranoid The Turner Diaries, this novel may speak to readers on the fringes of American society...."
"...who can be separated from their money by a pseudo-patriotic fight-back-and-feel-good piece of bullshit." (There, finished the quote). :D
Both the Turner Diaries and Unintended Consequences were nothing but pure marketing horseshit IMHO, designed to get paranoid gun owners to shell out bucks for some kind of rag where they might "get ideas" during the "ban everything" Clinton years.
I suppose people of the previous generation did the same thing with The Anarchist's Cookbook. :rolleyes:
DeltaSierra
11-23-11, 17:14
Yeah, McVeigh was a real piece of work. He actually thought he was going to start a popular uprising with a bunch of dead kids.
Yes, McVeigh was a piece of work.
No, he didn't think he was going to start any sort of revolution...
There are many inconsistencies with the entire OKC story.
Why were all the security cameras in the area seized by the FBI?
Why, when numerous witnesses claim that there was a third person at the scene was that information not only ignored, but swept under the carpet?
Look up the interesting case of Kenneth Michael Trentadue. Also, why was Officer Yeakey killed, if McVeigh was the perpetrator?
This is a pretty succinct list of reasons to suspect the official story of OKC...
http://www.okcbombing.net/News%20Articles/Editorials/reasons_govt_involve.htm
At best, the .Gov had prior knowledge about his plans to kill over 150 people. At worst, McVeigh was working for the .Gov at the time of the bombing.
"...who can be separated from their money by a pseudo-patriotic fight-back-and-feel-good piece of bullshit." (There, finished the quote). :D
Both the Turner Diaries and Unintended Consequences were nothing but pure marketing horseshit IMHO, designed to get paranoid gun owners to shell out bucks for some kind of rag where they might "get ideas" during the "ban everything" Clinton years.
I suppose people of the previous generation did the same thing with The Anarchist's Cookbook. :rolleyes:
You could make similar criticisms about every work of fiction which caters to a specific crowd. One could say that Kyle Lambs book caters to the "wannabe ninja SEAL crowd who has delusions of a zombie apocalypse." That said, you don't seem to know much about Unintended Consequences. Unlike The Turner Diaries, UC is pretty well researched and documents many important (and relatively unknown) historical events.
Now I'm not one of those guys who think it is the greatest book ever written. In fact the writing isn't even on par with your typical Clancey novel. But it's still a long way from absolute crap like The Turner Diaries.
Moose-Knuckle
11-23-11, 18:50
Yes, McVeigh was a piece of work.
No, he didn't think he was going to start any sort of revolution...
There are many inconsistencies with the entire OKC story.
Why were all the security cameras in the area seized by the FBI?
Why, when numerous witnesses claim that there was a third person at the scene was that information not only ignored, but swept under the carpet?
Look up the interesting case of Kenneth Michael Trentadue. Also, why was Officer Yeakey killed, if McVeigh was the perpetrator?
This is a pretty succinct list of reasons to suspect the official story of OKC...
http://www.okcbombing.net/News%20Articles/Editorials/reasons_govt_involve.htm
At best, the .Gov had prior knowledge about his plans to kill over 150 people. At worst, McVeigh was working for the .Gov at the time of the bombing.
Once I started tracking this. . .
Judge Clark Waddoups, presiding in the U.S. District Court for the District of Utah, Central Division, “was all over (the) FBI,” according to Jesse Trentadue, the Utah attorney who used the Freedom of Information Act in an attempt three years ago to compel the FBI to turn over copies of surveillance video captured April 19, 1995, by more than 20 cameras operating in the vicinity of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City.
Not only did Judge Waddoups deny the FBI’s Motion for Summary Judgment, Trentadue said, but he gave the Bureau until June 30 to do the following:
1. Confirm that FBI Information Director David Hardy told the truth in declarations he submitted to the court;
2. Describe the S-Drive and why it was not searched;
3. Explain why Evidence Control Units at Oklahoma City Field Office, FBI Headquarters and FBI Crime Lab were not searched; and
4. Describe how burdensome it would be to search OKBOMB case file entries for two weeks after the bombing for missing tapes?
I feel that it was just another false flag op. The further down the rabbit hole reveals much. . .
I feel that it was just another false flag op. The further down the rabbit hole reveals much. . .
There are many unanswered questions concerning the OKC bombing. I think you'll find this interesting. http://youtu.be/NWwrEEP8EBk
Amazing the asking prices for this now out of print book.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/unintended-consequences-john-ross/1001770498
http://www.amazon.com/Unintended-Consequences-John-Ross/dp/1888118040/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321984300&sr=8-1
http://compare.ebay.com/like/150543838713?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y
Glad I got mine for about $12. Wish I had kept a few extra copies. I'd flip mine but it is one of the few books of fiction that I will read, and that is mostly for the documented firearms history in the book.
I have given that book away a few times as gifts to people I thought would like it. Wish I had a copy now if they comand that kind of price. It was a good book though.
Right there with ya. I'm still stunned by 12 year olds with cell phones and cheap night vision. When I was a kid in the 70s the best we had was Star Trek walkie talkies with 2 foot antennae that kinda worked across the street and some crappy Japanese binos.
About 5 years ago when I was trading movies online with a guy in Japan the enormity of it all really hit me.
As a kid who took "Yeah we've already been to the moon" for granted, it would be interesting to know what todays kids will be floored by.
My kids were amazed when they learned you didn't need the remote control to change channels on the TV! That brought up the TV's we grew up with and the explanation of how we changed channels, had to watch commercials and only had cartoons Saturday morning and that we only had a handful if channels.
I actuallu enjoyed Unintended Consquences and am going to read the e-version again sometime.
I also think that there was something more to the whole McVeigh/OKC thing. Something always smelled funny to me.
I also think that there was something more to the whole McVeigh/OKC thing. Something always smelled funny to me.
Yeah, sometimes it has an Oswald feel for me too. But even if larger conspiracies exist at the end of the day Oswald was still a communist acting in his mind as a central role to the plot and McVeigh was a racist doing more or less the same thing.
That there may have been bigger players with different agendas pulling the strings really doesn't change the motivations of these individuals.
I tend to disagree. Which is also a reason why I am a big fan of releasing documents especially after the fact.
I recently stumbled upon a book concerning Oswald that I think is of great interest.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0977795306/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=8060713407&ref=pd_sl_7fvnk66nmn_b
Not a big fan of "conspiracies" but when the same people seem to cross paths in the same circle then I tend to think there is more to it.
In the case of McVeigh I find it interesting that there was anectdotal evidence that shows Terry Nichols met with people in the Philippines who were apprently linked to M.E terrorists.
I don't see what all of these years after the incident any and all information can be released so people can see some transparency.
Yeah, sometimes it has an Oswald feel for me too. But even if larger conspiracies exist at the end of the day Oswald was still a communist acting in his mind as a central role to the plot and McVeigh was a racist doing more or less the same thing.
That there may have been bigger players with different agendas pulling the strings really doesn't change the motivations of these individuals.
Not a big fan of "conspiracies" but when the same people seem to cross paths in the same circle then I tend to think there is more to it.
In the case of McVeigh I find it interesting that there was anectdotal evidence that shows Terry Nichols met with people in the Philippines who were apprently linked to M.E terrorists.
I don't find that surprising. While I obviously cannot factually dismiss anything, I can think of a few plausible explanations. These include everything from seeking assistance and support from unlikely allies with common goals in everything from fund raising to technical assistance.
I don't see what all of these years after the incident any and all information can be released so people can see some transparency.
I think the main reason is they don't want the average person to learn just how easy this kind of thing is.
Moose-Knuckle
11-24-11, 17:13
Yeah, sometimes it has an Oswald feel for me too. But even if larger conspiracies exist at the end of the day Oswald was still a communist acting in his mind as a central role to the plot and McVeigh was a racist doing more or less the same thing.
That there may have been bigger players with different agendas pulling the strings really doesn't change the motivations of these individuals.
pat·sy/ˈpatsē/
Noun: A person who is easily taken advantage of, esp. by being cheated or blamed for something.
Useful idiots.
DeltaSierra
11-24-11, 17:13
I think the main reason is they don't want the average person to learn just how easy this kind of thing is.
It is not easy to blow up a building.
You can't even buy lye in bulk quantities, much less explosive material.
Fertilizer bombs are not powerful enough to cause the massive damage seen in OKC. Immediately after the first set of explosions, the news media stated that there was more than one bomb in that building according to Law Enforcement on the scene.
Demolitions experts have stated that there was no way that McVeigh's "fertilizer bomb" could never have cause the damage that we saw in OKC.
My point is simply this. There is no way that McVeigh's "bomb" could have caused the destruction in OKC. Since that is a provable fact, along with evidence that there were other explosives that were inside the building, leads one to believe that someone that had access to the building must have planted the explosives that caused the majority of the damage. For someone to have had access to the building, they would have had to have been civilian contractors (that wouldn't have had access to the explosive material) or Government employees/agents...
My point is simply this. There is no way that McVeigh's "bomb" could have caused the destruction in OKC.
The "truck bomb" at the Marine barracks in Beirut suggests otherwise.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Beirutbarr.jpg
SW-Shooter
11-24-11, 22:53
The biggest reason why I doubt the Governments version of the event is how quickly he was put to death. There are inmates on death row that have been there for decades, he was killed faster than I have ever seen anyone else on death row.
Moose-Knuckle
11-25-11, 02:56
The "truck bomb" at the Marine barracks in Beirut suggests otherwise.
A truck is a truck, however the types of explosives that were utilized in each incident are a different matter.
In Beirut the USMC barracks were destroyed by military grade ordinance equivalent to 12,000lbs of TNT.
Heavy Metal
11-25-11, 09:55
The biggest reason why I doubt the Governments version of the event is how quickly he was put to death. There are inmates on death row that have been there for decades, he was killed faster than I have ever seen anyone else on death row.
He never appealed his sentence. That speeds things up greatly.
SeriousStudent
11-25-11, 10:04
A truck is a truck, however the types of explosives that were utilized in each incident are a different matter.
In Beirut the USMC barracks were destroyed by military grade ordinance equivalent to 12,000lbs of TNT.
If I recall correctly, the VBIED that took down the barracks was built with RDX, wrapped around propane cylinders detonated by PETN boosters. A very sophisticated device that worked as an FAE. Paid for by the Iranians, and wired and delivered with the help of the Syrian military.
I'm not stirring the pot or spreading hate and discontent, just reporting what I remember from the investigation.
And remember to say a prayer for those who fell there.
Belmont31R
11-25-11, 12:54
The FBI has been running PATCON (Patriot Conspiracy) Program that was involved in many things including Ruby Ridge and OKC.
They are doing the same thing with Muslims by giving them the means, method, and support to "carry out" attacks in US cities. Then arrest them, and proclaim they stopped a terrorist attack. I think its likely they had knowledge of OKC beforehand, and let the attack happen. Even to this day DOJ uses Timothy McVeigh as the poster child of "right wing extremism" and justification for their actions. The FBI was sending under cover agents out with money to purchase supplies for radical groups, and infiltrate them.
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/11/ssi-exclusive-hiding-mass-murder-behind.html
The FBI has been running PATCON (Patriot Conspiracy) Program that was involved in many things including Ruby Ridge and OKC.
They are doing the same thing with Muslims by giving them the means, method, and support to "carry out" attacks in US cities. Then arrest them, and proclaim they stopped a terrorist attack. I think its likely they had knowledge of OKC beforehand, and let the attack happen. Even to this day DOJ uses Timothy McVeigh as the poster child of "right wing extremism" and justification for their actions. The FBI was sending under cover agents out with money to purchase supplies for radical groups, and infiltrate them.
http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2011/11/ssi-exclusive-hiding-mass-murder-behind.html
Good info there. The same guys brought a lot of the Fast & Furious stuff out into the light as well.
From a recent article:
The FBI has received substantial criticism over the past decade — much of it valid — but nobody can deny its record of excellence in thwarting its own Terrorist plots. Time and again, the FBI concocts a Terrorist attack, infiltrates Muslim communities in order to find recruits, persuades them to perpetrate the attack, supplies them with the money, weapons and know-how they need to carry it out — only to heroically jump in at the last moment, arrest the would-be perpetrators whom the FBI converted, and save a grateful nation from the plot manufactured by the FBI.
It was my understanding that prior to Nichols going to the Philippines and meeting with the radicals (that he is alleged to have met with) neither McVeigh nor him could properly build and ANFO type bomb.
I read somewhere they he had contact with Ramzi Yousef or someone from that circle and they assisted in showing him how to do it properly. IIRC his truck bomb at the WTC would have been much more successful had it not be for a SNAFU.
I also thought it was really strange that the BATFE had an informant in that circle who warned them ahead of time.
Then there is this gem- Acting on a tip from reputed mobster Greg Scarpa, Jr., a fellow inmate of Nichols,[39][40] the FBI searched the crawl space of Nichols's former home in Kansas, 10 years after the bombing. They found explosives in boxes, wrapped in plastic, buried under a foot of rock. The tipster had indicated that the explosives were buried before the attack.[41]
I believe that the information came from Scarpa after he was asked to act as an informant.
It is not easy to blow up a building.
You can't even buy lye in bulk quantities, much less explosive material.
Fertilizer bombs are not powerful enough to cause the massive damage seen in OKC. Immediately after the first set of explosions, the news media stated that there was more than one bomb in that building according to Law Enforcement on the scene.
Demolitions experts have stated that there was no way that McVeigh's "fertilizer bomb" could never have cause the damage that we saw in OKC.
My point is simply this. There is no way that McVeigh's "bomb" could have caused the destruction in OKC. Since that is a provable fact, along with evidence that there were other explosives that were inside the building, leads one to believe that someone that had access to the building must have planted the explosives that caused the majority of the damage. For someone to have had access to the building, they would have had to have been civilian contractors (that wouldn't have had access to the explosive material) or Government employees/agents...
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