View Full Version : 9mm woes....
Took the 9 out for its intital run tody and had a couple of snags...
1) when bolt is locked open on empty chamber and back of stock is hit (when putting in rack) bolt rleases and slams home.
2)cycling-fire a round and new round is stripped and chambered as it should.Problem is that its not enough to recock the hammer.
Lower is running a Hahn mag adaptor,brownells LW trigger springs and supposedly a pistol weight buffer and spring..
Ammo was various 115gr,didnt have access to any 147gr.That will be my first trouble shooting idea.After that Im open to suggestions.
What bolt and hammer are you running?
What bolt and hammer are you running?
Ramped RRA bolt and dedicated 9mm hammer
Took the 9 out for its intital run tody and had a couple of snags...
1) when bolt is locked open on empty chamber and back of stock is hit (when putting in rack) bolt rleases and slams home.
2)cycling-fire a round and new round is stripped and chambered as it should.Problem is that its not enough to recock the hammer.
Lower is running a Hahn mag adaptor,brownells LW trigger springs and supposedly a pistol weight buffer and spring..
Ammo was various 115gr,didnt have access to any 147gr.That will be my first trouble shooting idea.After that Im open to suggestions.
1) I haven't seen any AR that won't release the bolt carrier when a sharp rap is delivered to the back of the stock.
2) With the ramped carrier, you don't need to use the 9mm hammer. The notch cut in the hammer could be hanging things up on the back of the ramp. Try a standard 5.56 AR hammer.
Your bolt catch is like mine- it's kinda smooth at the top- not as sharp and tall as others I've seen. A new one might fix your problem with the bolt slamming home unwanted.
Your bolt catch is like mine- it's kinda smooth at the top- not as sharp and tall as others I've seen. A new one might fix your problem with the bolt slamming home unwanted.
Its brand new out of a parts kit..
BigTin-good suggestion on changing out the hammer,will give that a try tomorrow
Yeah, so? There are just different designs that are different enough to cause a problem.
Yeah, so? There are just different designs that are different enough to cause a problem.
I thought mil-spec was all the same:confused:
They work the same on 5.56 carriers so yes, they are the same.
But since 9mm bolts can be ramped differently in different places, some work better than others.
Robb Jensen
11-29-07, 03:55
I thought mil-spec was all the same:confused:
You need to try an unnotched AR15 hammer. It's pin hole sized is the 'mil-spec' .154" but the top of the hammer is like a M16 hammer but with the sear tail bobbed off.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/nonnotchedhammer001.jpg
That's what I'm running in mine. I think it's a burst hammer with the sear catch milled off.
The 9mm hammer with the notch in the face was snagging on the area below the firing pin and not allowing smooth rearward travel of the bolt. I'm sure on non-ramped bolts it doesn't do this.
OK,new hammer worked and its now cocking like its supposed to..New issue has come up now..Extraction sucks...Its chambering a round before the spent casing is cleared..:mad:
Are you sure you have the proper 9mm buffer and spring? Can you post a picture of them? Also, what stock is on your carbine...an A2 stock requires a spacer in the rear of the receiver extension.
http://ninthstage.com/index.php/2006/03/02/build-your-own-9mm-ar-15-lower/
Robb Jensen
11-29-07, 19:28
OK,new hammer worked and its now cocking like its supposed to..New issue has come up now..Extraction sucks...Its chambering a round before the spent casing is cleared..:mad:
If you have the correct 9mm 5.6oz steel buffer and a carbine standard rate spring.
It sounds like weak ammo. Make sure that nothing is slowing the bolt down. Try lubing it very well and feel for binding anywhere (with an empty mag seated). If it's not binding it could be that the ammo is too weak. Try this if using Colt, C-products or Pro mags (if the mag will lock the bolt open manually when the mag is empty). Put 1 round in the mag and fire it. Try this several times it should lock back every time other wise bolt velocity is too slow or ammo is too weak.
Top buffer is the one out of my M4,bottom one is what Im running on the 9mm.Noticable weight difference between the two with the 9mm being the heaviest.
Stock is 4 postion adjustable.
Only mags I have access to are C-Products..Bolt is locking back after last round..Have been lubing bolt every 40-50rds..
Same problem was happening with different ammo.Ran 3 different brands of 115gr and 1 brand of 147gr....147gr didnt do it as often,but still did the same thing..
Cant feel any drag spots while manually cycling the action
OK,new hammer worked and its now cocking like its supposed to..New issue has come up now..Extraction sucks...Its chambering a round before the spent casing is cleared..:mad:
No, that's not the case. It's doing what mine does. It's just not EJECTING the case. The case is bouncing around inside the receiver while the bolt is going forward and loading the next round in.
I can't get my ejector bent over far enough to knock those damn cases out though.
My problem may be light loads as they are subsonic so if you are having the same symptoms it may be that the bolt is not traveling far enough rearward.
I thought this may be the case for me so I put in the H2 and I still have problems.
Next step is to put it all back on the A1 RO635 upper and start from scratch again...
ETA: GotM4- he was talking about Milspec in regards to the bolt catch. My bolt catch in the old style noveske lower is not as tall and sharp as some I've seen. It does not hold the bolt securely.
No, that's not the case. It's doing what mine does. It's just not EJECTING the case. The case is bouncing around inside the receiver while the bolt is going forward and loading the next round in.
I can't get my ejector bent over far enough to knock those damn cases out though.
My problem may be light loads as they are subsonic so if you are having the same symptoms it may be that the bolt is not traveling far enough rearward.
I thought this may be the case for me so I put in the H2 and I still have problems.
Next step is to put it all back on the A1 RO635 upper and start from scratch again...
ETA: GotM4- he was talking about Milspec in regards to the bolt catch. My bolt catch in the old style noveske lower is not as tall and sharp as some I've seen. It does not hold the bolt securely.
"bouncing around inside the reciever" very good description for whats happening..you think trying to bend the ejector may help??
My friend knows of my problems and read something similar on TOS.
Check it out if you have access- he's not a paying member so searching for it again was a PITA.
I am having the same problem... Is it a ejector problem or and extractor problem..
ejector. I rebent my extractor and cleaned everything inside and out fully after disassembly of the bolt.
Mine seems to be tracking through the bolt in the right area. could the ejector be on the short side.?
This is seeming like a fairly common problem then..Wonder just how many others are experencing the same thing...:confused:
Im gonna have to take a good close look at mine now and see what I can come up with..I may end up sacrificing my ejector for the common good and see if I can come up with a workable fix for everyone..
Ok. Here is an update. I did a little tweaking on my ejector, a little up and in towards the bolt, not making any contact with the bolt what so ever. I then proceced to run 3 different C-Products mags through the gun using WWB, on this test everything ran like a champ. I switched over to Blazer aluminium, and wow.. train wreck after train wreck... this thing would not run at all.. Note to self, don't run aluminum!!!! Looks like a little tune-up and everything is going in the right direction.
I also have an update.. Switched over to Win 147gr and things improved alot.Out of 250rds there were probably only 5 or the prior issues..Still to many, but Im at least on the right track..Will try adjusting the extractor and see if that takes care of the rest of it next week..Hell of a fun toy when its runnning half way decent
I have a question for you guys that are having the problem with the "case bouncing around inside the reciever", are you all running a Hahn (dedicated) mag block?
I just had a dedicated Hahn block installed in my carbine and now my gun wont run at all. I am having the same ejection problem as described above. I had a look at the ejector location in relation to the bolt through the ejection port and the ejector seems like it's not up high enough or close enough to the bottom of the bolt groove that it rides in. When I turn the gun upside down and view the ejector/bolt through the mag well the ejector is riding the outer edge of the bolt groove. I think it might work better if it was riding on the inner edge of the groove, i.e. closer to the centerline of the bolt.
I'm just looking for input from any of you guys that have this issue or have worked around the problem somehow. I really want to keep the Hahn block because it has the bolt hold open feature, but I am real close to reinstalling my top-load ASA mag block that I know works. Thanks.
For the fellas that are having issues, have you tried Colt mags?
I use modified UZI mags and I have one 20 round Colt mag.
I have had problems with all three.
I have been told by "Colt guys" (I'm not sure what they're real accreditations are) that the ejector can and should run right up alongside the bolt and it's 100% acceptable for them to rub and wear in together.
So, for any of us who have an ejector that is not touching the bolt, this is most likely the problem- the reason I stated it in the first place.
For the fellas that are having issues, have you tried Colt mags?
I am not running colt mags, as they are hard to find. My problems have seem to gone away, after a slight adjustment to the ejector on my RRA block, and as long as I use brass cases ammo. I am now using 5 different C-Products mags and so far so good..
I havent been able to come up with any Colt mags either so its only been C-Products in mine..Ran 200 rds thru it today with only a sigle malfunction..This was more than likely due to loading the mag to max capacity that one time.....One thing I did different today was to run it extremly wet with lube..Cant say if this had any real bearing of if things are just begining to break in properly.
i had the same problem with my pistol. it was the hahn block. it was replaced with a rra block and it runs like a sewing machine.
I am wondering if the Hahn blocks are holding the mags too high up in the receiver. I've been tempted to raise the notch in one of my mags to allow the mag to sit lower. If that doesn't work then chances are I've ruined a good UZI mag...
I dont think its the Haun block that holds the mag to high.
The mag catch hole is cut low in the mag.
The mag catch holds the mag in the lower not the 9mm adapter block.
I have 2 Haun 9mm blocks one of them is the first bottom load block the was made by haun and is all heavy steel that works just fine with the colt mags.
The other is his newest dedicated top load block that i just got from him a week ago and it works with the colt mags too.
I just purchased 5 CProducts mags and they sit just a little higher in the lower
than the colts.
If needed i will trim the mag catch hole in the mags to lower the mag if needed.
I'm not sure what you are saying.
I was talking about modifying the mags, not the mag block.
[QUOTE=SuicideHz;103863]I am wondering if the Hahn blocks are holding the mags too high up in the receiver.
I never said anything about mods to the block,
but i did say that the mag block does not hold the mag to high.
the mag is held in by the mag catch that is on the lower.
Alright, let me make this clearer for you-
I am using MODIFIED UZI MAGS. Do you know what that means?
A NON FACTORY NOTCH WAS PUT INTO THEM.
I am wondering if the notch is too low, like I said, causing them to be held in to high.
And yes, I'm 100% correct, the mag block holds the mags in place in the gun- the mag catch keeps them from falling out. Without the block, they wouldn't be held IN PLACE.
I'm not trying to be mean but I don't like you trying to pick apart what I'm saying over petty issues you didn't understand or I didn't make clear. You know how the rifle works so look to see how what I'm saying relates.
I'd appreciate it. The CAPS are only to emphasize, not shout at you.
Thanks. :)
I am wondering if the Hahn blocks are holding the mags too high up in the receiver. I've been tempted to raise the notch in one of my mags to allow the mag to sit lower. If that doesn't work then chances are I've ruined a good UZI mag...
I wasnt picking on you just trying to under stand you and help.
When you said , I am wondering if the Hahn blocks are holding the mags too high up in the receiver.
you are 100% right about the mags being held in place by the block but you
where 100% wrong about the mag block holding the mag to high in the receiver,
The mag catch that is a part on the receiver holds the mag high or low not the block
And yes you are 100% right about the mag catch notch cut that needs some trimming.
I too have moded uzi mags and colt and CP mags.
Sorta funny when you want us to make sense of what you say that is not clear.
:rolleyes:
That's enough. Drop it. YOU didn't understand and instead of taking what I said and making sense of it, you chose to try and single out one small portion of what I said.
You typed a HUGE paragraph to correct me when all you needed to do was point out that it's the same mag catch doing the "holding."
Thanks and have a nice day.
That's enough n00b. Drop it. YOU didn't understand and instead of taking what I said and making sense of it, you chose to try and single out one small portion of what I said.
You typed a HUGE paragraph to correct me when all you needed to do was point out that it's the same mag catch doing the "holding."
Thanks and have a nice day.
I may only be a NooB here but I'am a oldy at Building and shooting guns
I was shooting guns when you were shooting yellow turds in your diaper.
Thanks and have a nice evening
You obviously know what you are doing if you have to resort to diaper talk.
You obviously know what you are doing if you have to resort to diaper talk.
LOL LOL
Robb Jensen
12-18-07, 19:39
I may only be a NooB here but I'am a oldy at Building and shooting guns
I was shooting guns when you were shooting yellow turds in your diaper.
Thanks and have a nice evening
That's enough of that redtazdog. Stay on topic.
I dont think its the Haun block that holds the mag to high.
The mag catch hole is cut low in the mag.
The mag catch holds the mag in the lower not the 9mm adapter block.
I have 2 Haun 9mm blocks one of them is the first bottom load block the was made by haun and is all heavy steel that works just fine with the colt mags.
The other is his newest dedicated top load block that i just got from him a week ago and it works with the colt mags too.
I just purchased 5 CProducts mags and they sit just a little higher in the lower
than the colts.
If needed i will trim the mag catch hole in the mags to lower the mag if needed.
I had to trim all 3 of my C=Product mags.They set so high the upper wouldnt even close
Tried a couple of un-modded C-Product mags today and ran back into the original problem with the cases bouncing around inside..Belive these are the 2nd generation but not 100% certain.These seemed to seat correctly,just wouldn;t function reliably.
Also had to go back to the 9mm notched hammer as well as an unramped bolt due to some serious backpressure issues when running the Trident on it.Ran about 100rds thu it today..Not really enough to get a good feel for the current setup yet to see if this is gonna be the right setup..
So you filed a little out of the top of the notch so they will sit lower?
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