View Full Version : Doc or anyone - XM40HC?
Leatherneck556
11-23-11, 12:25
I'm seeing some really good prices on stuff that is allegedly Federal HST .40 S&W 180gr. I thought that the product code for that round was P40HST, but this stuff is XM40HC and it's listed at sgammo.com as a government contract ammo overrun. Does anybody know if this is real-deal 180gr HST? Can I buy with confidence?
I have been seeing a lot of this too. I was reading some reviews on what I think was chaeperthandirt, if I remember correctly. All I read was positive. They said it was brass cassed rather than nickle platted but that was the only complaint. If prices for .40 hst continue this way I might have to buy one.
BuckskinJoe
11-23-11, 18:45
I talked to a tech. rep. at Federal about this ammunition, and he had to do a little research before he found (according to him) it is overruns of HST ammo loaded for ICE. According to him, there are two differences between this and the "regular" HST version:
First, it is bright brass instead of nickel plated cased.
Second, it is, actually, held to tighter tolerances on velocity variance than "regular" HST ammo.
Bottom line: according to the Federal rep., it is great ammunition, just not in bright nickel cases.
It is loaded in brass cases with the 180gr HST bullet. I found some at a LGS pretty reasonable, and have fired a few hundred rounds of it. I wish I would have bought more.
I talked to a tech. rep. at Federal about this ammunition, and he had to do a little research before he found (according to him) it is overruns of HST2 ammo loaded for ICE. According to him, there are two differences between this and the "regular" HST2 version:
First, it is bright brass instead of nickel plated cased.
Second, it is, actually, held to tighter tolerances on velocity variance than "regular" HST2 ammo.
Bottom line: according to the Federal rep., it is great ammunition, just not in bright nickel cases.
NO .40 loaded for DHS and/or ICE is issued with a nickel plated case. All .40 is brass cased.
BuckskinJoe
11-24-11, 10:01
NO .40 loaded for DHS and/or ICE is issued with a nickel plated case. All .40 is brass cased.
Not sure what you are saying here that all .40 is brass cased and, at the same time, .40 loaded for DHS and ICE is nickel cased.
You did not support your claim with sources or documentation; however, I can assure you that what I said is directly from a Federal tech. rep. Perhaps, he did not know what he was talking about. Can you support your claim that his information is incorrect?
BuckskinJoe
11-24-11, 10:14
It is loaded in brass cases with the 180gr HST bullet. I found some at a LGS pretty reasonable, and have fired a few hundred rounds of it. I wish I would have bought more.
This is what the Federal tech. rep. said to me--additionally, that it is overruns of the ICE "formula."
Not sure what you are saying here that all .40 is brass cased and, at the same time, .40 loaded for DHS and ICE is nickel cased.
You did not support your claim with sources or documentation; however, I can assure you that what I said is directly from a Federal tech. rep. Perhaps, he did not know what he was talking about. Can you support your claim that his information is incorrect?
I'll use pictures because words are getting the point across.
All DHS .40 ammo is brass cased, I have been shooting it, picking the brass cases off of the ground, unloading pallets of it, issueing it out, etc for 13 years.
Here are pics of the ammo in question as we receive it,
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac347/kmrtnsn/photo2.jpg
http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac347/kmrtnsn/photo1.jpg
If you go to the following link,
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=feed76f5e1253db8938c7756f621d4fc&tab=core&_cview=1
and go about three paragraphs down in the Statement of Work (SOW) you'll find this quote, "3.7.3 Cartridge Case Material. Cartridge casings shall be constructed of new, unfired brass."
I'm seeing some really good prices on stuff that is allegedly Federal HST .40 S&W 180gr. I thought that the product code for that round was P40HST, but this stuff is XM40HC and it's listed at sgammo.com as a government contract ammo overrun. Does anybody know if this is real-deal 180gr HST? Can I buy with confidence?
This was available through Fed LE sales channels for a period of time, cheaper than AE and other economy training ammo. I picked some up before it dried up, and it is GTG.
I'm generally inclined to agree with BuckskinJoe. I find it a bit odd that ICE would specifically want *brass* not *nickel* casings, although I'm not sure it makes any difference one way or the other.
I'm generally inclined to agree with BuckskinJoe. I find it a bit odd that ICE would specifically want *brass* not *nickel* casings, although I'm not sure it makes any difference one way or the other.
I've been shooting DHS .40 for 12 plus years and have said ammo in my current possession but clearly a guy who knows a guy who read it somewhere and says it is nickel plated knows more about the subject matter than I do.
I've been shooting DHS .40 for 12 plus years and have said ammo in my current possession but clearly a guy who knows a guy who read it somewhere and says it is nickel plated knows more about the subject matter than I do.
Well, there is that. :D
Seriously, I don't know what difference it really makes, brass-wise. To my knowledge there's nothing differentiating them.
RioGrandeGreen
11-24-11, 18:46
I don't know how it can be gov. contract overrun. The USBP was promised this .40 for about two years ago to replace the hot 155 grain .40. We just got it issued to us a couple of months ago. Go figure!
Anyhow I think it's GTG. YMMV
RGGreen
I've been shooting DHS .40 for 12 plus years and have said ammo in my current possession but clearly a guy who knows a guy who read it somewhere and says it is nickel plated knows more about the subject matter than I do.
Ok I read this thread 3 times... MAYBE im absolutely braindead, but I think you're arguing the same thing. Joe said its NOT nickel coated, KMR said NONE of it is.
So you both agree that:
1, this ammo is NOT nickel plated brass, its just brass.
2****, this ammo is GOOD ammo to buy
what did I miss?
eta, i think i found it:
Not sure what you are saying here that all .40 is brass cased and, at the same time, .40 loaded for DHS and ICE is nickel cased.
You did not support your claim with sources or documentation; however, I can assure you that what I said is directly from a Federal tech. rep. Perhaps, he did not know what he was talking about. Can you support your claim that his information is incorrect?
he said "no fortay is nickel coated"
he did not say "no, fortay..." That was a decimal, not a period.
I don't know how it can be gov. contract overrun. The USBP was promised this .40 for about two years ago to replace the hot 155 grain .40. We just got it issued to us a couple of months ago. Go figure!
"Contract overrun" is sometimes a marketing euphemism for rejected or "reclassified" product. Not saying that's what this is, but the fact that it's using the same part number used for contract ammunition that has a different spec, would make me suspect so. If so, that's not necessarily a negative, as large agencies reject stuff for some pretty tiny flaws. Hard to think that they loaded it in nickel plated brass by mistake, and that's why it was rejected, but stranger things have happened.
Leatherneck, If it is listed as "XM40HC" buy it; it is good stuff.
Leatherneck556
11-26-11, 08:22
Thanks for the advice - I did already get some of that ammo. I also contacted a rep at Federal who said that it should be the "real deal" and that even if it was factory-second material, that it's pretty much imperceptible and would work just fine.
Thanks for the advice - I did already get some of that ammo. I also contacted a rep at Federal who said that it should be the "real deal" and that even if it was factory-second material, that it's pretty much imperceptible and would work just fine.
That's what I would expect also. Federal uses the XM designators for both special contract ammo and 2nd or reclassified ammo, but they're not going to release ammo for sale that's a serious problem.
I read the whole thread and it seems there is still confusion
Federal HST you can buy over the counter/online is nickel plated brass.
The ICE HST is standard brass (non nickel plated).
Maybe it was already said but oh well....
The nickel casing is more expensive, thus adding to the overall cost. However, it does serve to resist corrosion and keep the case walls slick for reliable feeding and extraction. However, most .40S&W pistols have beefy extractors, and with the strong recoiling action of the .40 you don't get that many problems. Besides, do you let your ammunition stay in poor conditions and unfired long enough for corrosion to set in? If so, stick with the nickel cased stuff.
Hawkeye M6A3
12-04-11, 21:48
I e-mailed Federal about this in June. Here was their response:
From: Prodserv <Prodserv@ATK.COM>
To: [Removed]
Date: June 09, 2011 8:53 AM
Greetings,
The XM40HC was designed for a government agency and is a production overrun made available for public purchase. The XM40HC is loaded with our 180gr HST bullet and produces a muzzle velocity of 1015fps and muzzle energy of 410ft-lbs. It is not loaded hotter and is brass cased not nickel plated.
Thank you
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