View Full Version : Considering my first Glock in .45ACP. Which one?
toddackerman
11-29-07, 20:50
Have had 6 1911's over the last 30 years and have over 100,000 rounds through them in competition and training. Caliber is not an option.
Which model of Glock should I consider in .45 ACP that is a full size that I can just beat the living crap out of an not be worried about trashing a $2500 1911?
Lights, Mags., Holsters, Sights etc. should all be considered in this decision, and your recommendations.
Thanks for your inputs!
G21SF with the standard Glock rail and the regular mag release.
G21SF with the standard Glock rail and the regular mag release.
Could not agree more
I would say buy a 21 and then send it off to Bowie Tactical Concepts some work. I don't really feel any difference between the 21 and the 21SF
I have large hands and still found that if my draw wasn't perfect i had some issues shooting fast while maintaining the accuracy i know i am capable of. I shot the 21SF and had the same results. Sent the 21 off to BTC for a grip reduction and removal of those damn finger grooves and now I have Glock Perfection.
ETA i know i need to post pics
toddackerman
11-29-07, 21:16
I would say buy a 21 and then send it off to Bowie Tactical Concepts some work. I don't really feel any difference between the 21 and the 21SF
I have large hands and still found that if my draw wasn't perfect i had some issues shooting fast while maintaining the accuracy i know i am capable of. I shot the 21SF and had the same results. Sent the 21 off to BTC for a grip reduction and removal of those damn finger grooves and now I have Glock Perfection.
ETA i know i need to post pics
Need some help because it'll be my first...What's the diference between the 21 and 21 "SF"?
Need some help because it'll be my first...What's the diference between the 21 and 21 "SF"?
The frame size mainly. The SF stands for slim frame. For a while some have complained that the 21 had too thick of a frame.
While on the subject of 45 ACP Glocks, what of the 30 or 36? I've heard enough bad things about the 36 that I never even bothered to try one, even though I was initially salivating in anticipation of their release. Glock missed the mark with the 36, IMO. The grip on the 30 always seemed a bit chunky and the slide is too wide....however maybe with a grip reduc...but only if it's Glock reliable. My M&P 45 is not winning "hearts and minds" with me, plus it's still a bit large. CCW is a big factor. I want to try an XD compact but after pulling the trigger too early on the M&P...I'm feeling a bit shy. Then there's the HK45c coming up soon. If anything, I expect HK will at least have their compact running reliably from the get go.
Well, I'll go "against the grain" and recommend another platform.
-If you are married to the .45acp cartridge, I would recommend looking into another platform.
-Over the years I have noticed that the .45acp Glocks have a higher failure rate than any of the other calibers (with the exception of the 10mm Glocks, as I've only come across a couple of them).
-I have seen several .45acp Glocks perform for a few hundred rounds without a problem. But I can't ever remeber a .45acp Glock finishing a training class that was 1,000+ without some sort of problem.
-Some larger agencies have documented the problems with .45acp Glocks and have even been removed from some agencies "approved pistol lists". I can think of one agency that deadlined the .45acp Glocks and later brought them back on line.
-I'm not saying all .45acp Glocks are bad, but they have a higher failure rate and are more problematic than the 9mm and .40 cal Glocks.
-Of the 4 or 5 Officers that we have carrying Glocks in .45acp, ever single one of them went down or had reliability problems during our last Block Training. Problems with Glock 9's and 40's were far and few between.
If I were in the market for a new (non-1911) pistol in .45acp, I would take a long hard look at other platforms (ie. S&W M&P, H&K, etc). Unfortuniately Glock wouldn't even be on the list.
Just my .02
YMMV
Semper Fi,
Jeff
Yea what he said, I would seriously look at the M&P platform for a 45
We rent Glock pistols, including the 21, 30, and 36.
Those guns keep up just fine with the 22, 17, 23, 19, etc...
The 9mm and .40's get rented more often and probably have 30k through them...the 21 might be up around 10k, but is entirely problem free.
One guy shoots on our range and blows about 400 rounds as fast as he can load his mags, though his 21 every week. Been doing it for maybe 3 years now...same gun.
He gets that gun red hot...breaks trigger springs every 3 or 4 months...probably due to how hot he gets the thing (you should see what he did to his Kimber!! this guy could break any gun out there...the Glock holds up best for him)
I too think the Glock isn't the best platform for a .45ACP. The M&P with a trigger job may get you that much closer to the 1911 "feel". To me, .45 belongs in a 1911.
I would opt for the G21SF.
My experience differs from USMC03. I've watched a number of G21s complete various training classes in exemplary fashion. I know of several used as test-beds which have accumulated particularly high round counts.
The G21s also display exceptional accuracy potential out of the box, often described as match or near-match with best ammunition.
Using the addition or deletion of particular gun from an approved list is interesting, but not as evidentiary as inferred without the additional information which leads to such decisions.
An HK isn't a bad choice, but the product support isn't there. The M&P wouldn't even be a consideration for me, with it's growing pains and constant revisions. XD is also not a consideration.
Robb Jensen
11-30-07, 05:39
I'd recommend the Glock 21SF and M&P45 as well. I like the HK45 but haven't shot one so I can't recommend something without having actually used one. It does fit the hand very well, it appears HK has really improved a lot since the USP.
I currently own a 21SF (w/pic rail and ambi mag catch) w/Warren Tactical mix sights (plain black rear w/night sight front). The 21 is a big gun SF or not. It shoots very softly, is plenty accurate and easy to maintain. For 21s I change the recoil, trigger, striker, and slide lock springs (aka take down lever) springs every 5K rounds and the locking blocks (and all three pins) every 10K rounds. Mags are cheap as are parts. This sized Glock was designed to be a 10mm (Glock 20) so shooting .45ACP in the same sized platform is a pussycat. The Glock 22 was essentially a .40 shoehorned into a Glock 17 frame and it's taken a while to get it to work reliably. On the Glocks I see and fix it's the .40s that have the most problems (heavy bullet / high pressure in a 9mm sized platform), not the .45ACP (heavy bullet / low pressure in a 10mm sized platform). 10mm is a heavy bullet (180-200gr at high pressure). Sure Glock 21s have had problems along the years since their first introduction........like all Glocks models they've been updated/upgraded from time to time. That said the most balls out reliable Glock is the Glock 17 9mm (and probably it's the most reliable 9mm pistol ever made).
The M&P45 is a great gun with very good ergonomics. It fits my hand with the small insert the best, even better than the Glock 21. I've only put a fraction of the rounds through an M&P45 that I have in a Glock 21 but I find it to be very reliable (100% for me) and easily more accurate than the Glock. The trigger can be reworked (by Bowie (http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/) and Burwell (http://www.burwellgunsmithing.com/)) to really blow away any trigger on a Glock. Mags are expensive and all metal, parts are typically on par with Glock prices but a little harder to get.
If it's worked for 30 years. I'd stay with 1911's. The G21 is a good gun she's alittle thick though. Rather have a 1911.
If it's worked for 30 years. I'd stay with 1911's. The G21 is a good gun she's alittle thick though. Rather have a 1911.
I agree, STAY with the 1911..... don't sell your soul for something thats cheaper to abuse......Use and abuse the good stuff...its more fun and you won't regret it.:D
21 or 21SF.
21SF is a slightly slimmer frame, has ambi safety and a Pic rail. It also uses next gen mags. Whether or not these features are worth passing over a good price on a 21 is up to you.
If you are basing your decision from your past experience with 1911's, there isn't a full sized Glock in .45 ACP that will come close ergonomically. Even the SF model is pretty "clubby".
If you are set on a Glock, and want a reasonable grip, and require .45 ACP ballistics, the best option is probably going to be a model 37 .45 GAP. Otherwise, look elsewhere.
I am also looking into getting a G21SF for to carry on Duty and found out that I can get one from a Police Glock Dealer in NC and they have the G21SF in the Reg. Mag button and it uses the Reg. Glock Mag. That is want I want.
Robb Jensen
01-02-08, 04:30
The Glock 30SF will be out pretty soon too, also a good choice.
Unless you can palm a basketball, the Glock 45 will not fit in your hand... On a blind grip test, people found a 2 x 4 board more comfortable to hold...
Glocks were really designed to be a 9mm pistol for the Austrian military and it does this very well (Glock 17)... Later the American law enforcement community wanted a Glock that would shoot a more substantial round and Glock introduced a 45 cal & 40 cal (Glock 21 & 22)... These did not get the same level of R&D that the original 17 did and they were plagued with problems...
After 20 years of tweaking the design, I believe the best flavor of Glock is the 35... It is the same size as a 1911, and has all the same controls... The 5 inch barrel controls the "zip" of the 40 cal round and the grip frame can be held by humans... Add a set of Heini straight 8 sights, a x300 light, and a bladetech or safariland holster you are the king of the plains...
Just my .02
Buck
We rent Glock pistols, including the 21, 30, and 36.
Those guns keep up just fine with the 22, 17, 23, 19, etc...
The 9mm and .40's get rented more often and probably have 30k through them...the 21 might be up around 10k, but is entirely problem free.
One guy shoots on our range and blows about 400 rounds as fast as he can load his mags, though his 21 every week. Been doing it for maybe 3 years now...same gun.
He gets that gun red hot...breaks trigger springs every 3 or 4 months...probably due to how hot he gets the thing (you should see what he did to his Kimber!! this guy could break any gun out there...the Glock holds up best for him)
I too think the Glock isn't the best platform for a .45ACP. The M&P with a trigger job may get you that much closer to the 1911 "feel". To me, .45 belongs in a 1911.
Breaks a trigger spring every 4800 rounds that unacceptable and I would deem the G21 as a POS that should not be trusted with your life. How could you dismiss such a serious problem?
Breaks a trigger spring every 4800 rounds that unacceptable and I would deem the G21 as a POS that should not be trusted with your life. How could you dismiss such a serious problem?
First off, it's a standard PM item to replace them every couple thousand of rounds. They're cheap, a couple of bucks max.
Secondly, sound slike to me his usage pattern is off the scale -- run the gun
continuously until it's glowing red and somethging breaks. To discount this as a show stopping flaw would be analagous to running an AR continuously until the barrel bursts and then viewing that as a design flaw.
Thirdly, if I'm not mistaken, a broken trigger spring does not render a Glock inoperable. I believe the trigger just pulls a bit harder, but the trigger will still reset and fire. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
I like the G-30 myself. Mine's accurate, easy to shoot well quickly & reliable so far. I use it for CCW when I'm giving my G-23 a rest.
Keith
I fully agree with USMC03, I personally will only own 9 mm Glocks.
While a properly customized 5" steel-frame single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP is a superb, unparalleled choice for the dedicated user willing to spend a significant amount of money to get it properly initially set-up and considerable time to maintain it, for those folks who want a .45 ACP pistol, but don't want to invest the funds and effort into getting a good 1911, they would be better served with a S&W .45 ACP M&P, followed by an HK45, S&W 4566, or possibly the SA .45 ACP XD.
First off, it's a standard PM item to replace them every couple thousand of rounds. They're cheap, a couple of bucks max.
Secondly, sound slike to me his usage pattern is off the scale -- run the gun
continuously until it's glowing red and somethging breaks. To discount this as a show stopping flaw would be analagous to running an AR continuously until the barrel bursts and then viewing that as a design flaw.
Thirdly, if I'm not mistaken, a broken trigger spring does not render a Glock inoperable. I believe the trigger just pulls a bit harder, but the trigger will still reset and fire. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Agreed.
The user in question sits down with a case of .45 and loads the mags with speed loaders, as fast as he can. He shoots them a little faster than 1 round a second...for about an hour.
He used to do this with 12 ga slugs...went through 300 in one night, once (indoors)...we asked him to shoot something else after that. He switched to shooting .45's then.
The guy has broken half a dozen 1911's, and eventually gave up on the 1911 design for his usage. His last 1911 was a Kimber, and that went back 5 times before he gave up on it.
His Glock 21 has seen 400+ rounds a week for 3 or 4 years now....he breaks the trigger spring every few months, and that's really it. He put in a new recoil spring once or twice I think...
Considering how hot he gets this gun....I think it shows you how well this gun actually holds up. The part breaks with consistency...he call it within a thousand rounds when that spring goes. He buys them 10 at a time and keeps them in his range bag....doesn't stop him for 5 minutes.
Agreed.
The user in question sits down with a case of .45 and loads the mags with speed loaders, as fast as he can. He shoots them a little faster than 1 round a second...for about an hour.
He used to do this with 12 ga slugs...went through 300 in one night, once (indoors)...we asked him to shoot something else after that. He switched to shooting .45's then.
The guy has broken half a dozen 1911's, and eventually gave up on the 1911 design for his usage. His last 1911 was a Kimber, and that went back 5 times before he gave up on it.
Whatever floats your boat. This guy sounds like Rainman.
Bowie Tactical
01-02-08, 19:36
Both the glock 21 and the M&P are great guns. BUT, I do think the M&P has a better feel. If you like a 1911 but want a more usable gun the M&P with my "LX" trigger will really suit you to a "T".
My "LX" trigger has very very little pre travel and very very short over travel. It is as close to a 1911 as you can get with all the safeties still 100% functioning. It is what I carry on my guns. It is a quick trigger. Reset is very fast and I also improve the reset feel.
CHECK 360
David Bowie
Bowie Tactical Concepts
Bolt_Overide
01-02-08, 21:18
G21SF with the standard Glock rail and the regular mag release.
+1, the ambi mag release is a pile of crap, RUN from it.
Steelshooter
01-02-08, 22:17
I like the 21 SF a lot and have had no issues with it or the regular Glock 21 after many thousands of rounds. I don't buy the idea that Glocks are only reliable in 9mm. Anyway these days I prefer the M&P .45. I have two of them now and they have been stone cold reliable, very ergonomic, and accurate. The first samples I saw had inconsistent fit (mostly extractor) finish, and very poor triggers. I waited until they have been out a few months to buy and both of mine have been excellent in every way. I have 30+ years with the 1911 including many years of being issued them in the Marines. But I still like polymer pistols as well.
Steelshooter
01-02-08, 22:18
I have not seen or heard of any issues with the ambi safety. Are you referring to it's function or the fact that it's there?
+1, the ambi mag release is a pile of crap, RUN from it.
Steelshooter
01-02-08, 22:29
gotm4, are you using the 21SF or the M&P .45 in competition these days? I heard you went back to the 21SF for .45 competition. If so, why?
The Glock 30SF will be out pretty soon too, also a good choice.
Why no love for the SIG P220?
Steelshooter
01-03-08, 21:20
I like the SAO version but I am less than thrilled with Sigs quality control and customer service these days. Plus 8 round capacity is so 1980's...:cool:
How about the greatest 45 of all time the SW4506 and when you run out of ammo you can cave their skulls in with it.:D
Steelshooter
01-13-08, 20:57
is that supposed to be announced at SHOT or something? First i have heard of a G30SF.
The Glock 30SF will be out pretty soon too, also a good choice.
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