View Full Version : What would one look for if they decided to buy an AK?
ISD is a commercial manufacturer in Bulgaria. They're the ones that developed the Bulgarian "bullet" and "slabside" polymer magazines that don't have any steel reinforcement.
They're not listing a price in that add.
TGI is VERY hit and miss when it comes to QC.
"The Russians are not dumb, and if I were to pick one assault rifle cartridge the 5.45 would be it."
I have a 5.45 Saiga import I reconfigured and I love it but it performs only a certain way. My x39 is a Romanian but I like that also. I think both calibers are vaiable for owning since the 7.62 will penetrate where a 5.45 won't (yes, even the steel-core surplus 7n6 won't penetrate like an FMJ 7.62x39).:happy:
Rebel Rifle Ordnance
04-22-11, 08:16
I have five or six cases of the steel core penetrater ammo. My dad bought up a bunch before it was banned. Is that stuff still available? I've shot up a couple 100 rounds and am wondering if I should be shooting something else if it's not available any more.
You can't go wrong with the Arsenal rifles. SGL's, SLR's....go for it. Get one in 5.56, 7.62 and 5.45. They are all great.
They are well built and have hammer forged chrome lined barrels from over seas. You also get a foreign made receiver with proper riveting.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm220/tds1202/DSC02453.jpg
Then again, you also can't go wrong with one of these. Chinese AK, IMO are the best...
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm220/tds1202/DSC02395.jpg
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm220/tds1202/DSC02400.jpg
You need to slow down before you wear yourself out! :)
I've heard around the Internets that Arsenal's quality has been going down or some shit.
Is this true?
I've heard around the Internets that Arsenal's quality has been going down or some shit.
Is this true?
How many times are you going to ask this, and how many times do we have to answer it?
Seriously man.
My bad. Living in the PRK, I hear all kinds of crap since there are a lot of haters since the company was anti-Cali for a while.
Either way, I'd still buy the SGL because it has exactly what I want on it.
Templar (or anyone else):
I had heard that the fit + finish + function of a converted Saiga rifle was on par with the Arsenal rifles. Is this mistaken ?
Templar (or anyone else):
I had heard that the fit + finish + function of a converted Saiga rifle was on par with the Arsenal rifles. Is this mistaken ?
Absolutely depends on who did the conversion from a "sporter" to military configuration.
Some are great, some, not so much. I've seen guys use philips head screws to fill the holes left from the old FCG.....totally unsat. I've seen some that welded them up, smoothed them out and completely refinished the whole weapon.
Some are great, some, not so much.
Thank you. More questions, then:
1) Would you say a carefully done home conversion could come out nice?
2) Any suggestions as to who would produce the "great" results ? I hear Jim Fuller @ Rifle Dynamics does good work. Bit pricy, from what I can see.
It can, sure.....but if it's your first dance with an AK, I'd be extremely cautious.
I've seen some Fuller AK's in classes, but not handled them up close, they seemed to run fine. Not to take anything at all away from Jim, but I see a lot of newbies to AK's mention him, and I have to wonder why his name keeps popping up.
Mario at Piece of History Firearms, and Troy at InRange are the two guys I throw out there most often as first tier builders.
It's going to be less expensive, by far, to buy a SGL-21 or 31.
I've seen some Fuller AK's in classes, but not handled them up close, they seemed to run fine. Not to take anything at all away from Jim, but I see a lot of newbies to AK's mention him, and I have to wonder why his name keeps popping up.
A lot of people have the impression that the Warriortalk boards are the place to go for AK information, and he is heavily mentioned/marketed on there. That almost assuredly has something to do with it.
A lot of people have the impression that the Warriortalk boards are the place to go for AK information, and he is heavily mentioned/marketed on there. That almost assuredly has something to do with it.
I thought it was something like that. Unfortunately, Fuller has tied himself with Suarez and Yeager.
Been saving up for my SGL-21 these days, I'm half way there (with taking the price of mags and ammo and a chest rig into account).
Anyway, what do people usually do after the finish on an Arsenal starts going out? Is it SOP to Duracoat it--And how much does something like that usually cost?
And Mario at POHF does amazing work; with his attention to detail, it's like Kalashnikov art.
Been saving up for my SGL-21 these days, I'm half way there (with taking the price of mags and ammo and a chest rig into account).
Anyway, what do people usually do after the finish on an Arsenal starts going out? Is it SOP to Duracoat it--And how much does something like that usually cost?
And Mario at POHF does amazing work; with his attention to detail, it's like Kalashnikov art.
Haven't done anything, it's a non issue.
Haven't done anything, it's a non issue.
Glad to hear that; some on CGN were talking like looking at it would make it fall off or something.
Just added another Benjamin to the AK fund today. :D
DeltaSierra
07-18-11, 21:19
Templar,
I currently have a few Arsenal rifles, and have been considering purchasing one more AK (I have not decided on calibre, although I will probably just stick with 7.62X39) as a backup rifle.
I have been looking at everything from Polytech (I have never even fired one, so don't know if it is worth the extra cost, especially as this weapon is NOT going to be a safe queen and therefore will never be a collectors piece.) to Krebs, and haven't been able to figure out if;
(a) A stamped receiver is really lower quality than a milled receiver,
and
(b) If a custom built rifle is really any higher quality than a well built production model.
Most of my rifles are just range guns, but I'm hunting for a "field use" Kalashnikov, and don't know enough about AKs to feel like I can make a good decision...
Whenever I see the picture of that Trijicon TA11 on the M16A2...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVekNsgUqn4
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Range%20Day%209-13-05/Half%20Sized%20Range%20Day/RangePics9-13-05002.jpg
:smile:
Templar,
I currently have a few Arsenal rifles, and have been considering purchasing one more AK (I have not decided on calibre, although I will probably just stick with 7.62X39) as a backup rifle.
I have been looking at everything from Polytech (I have never even fired one, so don't know if it is worth the extra cost, especially as this weapon is NOT going to be a safe queen and therefore will never be a collectors piece.) to Krebs, and haven't been able to figure out if;
(a) A stamped receiver is really lower quality than a milled receiver,
and
(b) If a custom built rifle is really any higher quality than a well built production model.
Most of my rifles are just range guns, but I'm hunting for a "field use" Kalashnikov, and don't know enough about AKs to feel like I can make a good decision...
How many rounds can wear out a throw-away Ak - 40,000. If you fire that many rounds "in anger" than you have fought well and survived. A PSL in 7.62 x 54 will solve the utility issue. These are investments and tools...stock up on what you can afford and stick with it. 1.5 mm stamped is perfect. Ask and you shall gain the understanding of "does this Seller even know what he has"?
Comfort is in knowing a competent Seller can direct you to what you are Really looking for. THEN i can trust what He is selling to me.
brushy bill
07-19-11, 19:28
Anyone currently offer a 1.5mm non-USA manufactured receiver version? Everything I see is 1mm.
Anyone currently offer a 1.5mm non-USA manufactured receiver version? Everything I see is 1mm.
I just bought a bulgarian ak. It has the 1.6mm stamped reciever with a chrome line barrel and high cap mags. Centerfire systems is where I got mine but they are probably available elsewhere. The stock sucks, and will be the first change I make.
A properly built stamped receiver AKM/AK-74/AK 100 series rifle will out last the end user. Especially as a civilian shooting semi auto.
There really isn't a need for the 1.5mm stamped receivers....the Chinese did it because they were reverse engineering their Type 56 stamped, and I'm sure the metallurgy they were working with had something to do with it. The Yugoslavians did it to get around licensing....but there are standard 1mm stamped receivered AKM's out there that have seen abuse that most civilian shooters only imagine, and they survive.
DS, I'd hit the Easy button and get an Arsenal Inc. SGL series.
I'm perfectly content with my saiga 7.62x39 that I converted myself, have about $500 in it.
Just picked up a new Arsenal SGL 20-41. Very happy with the quality of the rifle although not a fan of the stock. Im not the tallest guy and find the warsaw length to be too long and too light. Looking at getting the Vltor buffer tube with Magpul CTR stock to replace it. Have a question though if i wanted to go old school with it, does any company make a wood stock that is shorter then the warsaw length of 9.25"? All in all though great gun glad i did some research before i bought it.
For a serious shooter, stick with the factory built guns on imported recievers. Don't worry about the finish, a serious shooter is a tool and the wear just adds character.
decodeddiesel
07-23-11, 02:35
Agreed. I wouldn't look at any AK other than something built on a Saiga as a serious gun these days. As much as I am sure I will love my US Built 86 Tula AKS-74U I realize it is for all intents a toy.
Agreed. I wouldn't look at any AK other than something built on a Saiga as a serious gun these days.
My understanding was the Arsenal SGL series were built on imported Saiga rifles. Do these fall into the "toy" category and therefore are not serious use weapons?
My understanding was the Arsenal SGL series were built on imported Saiga rifles. Do these fall into the "toy" category and therefore are not serious use weapons?
No, they are not toys. What diesel was saying is what John and I were saying, that you should really stick to factory built AK's with OEM receivers and barrels, like the SAIGA's, the SLR, and the SGL series from Arsenal Inc. The SGL's are factory modified SAIGA's.
No, they are not toys. What diesel was saying is what John and I were saying, that you should really stick to factory built AK's with OEM receivers and barrels, like the SAIGA's, the SLR, and the SGL series from Arsenal Inc. The SGL's are factory modified SAIGA's.
Ah ok, I understand now. Thanks for the clarification. I've been considering an AK and the Arsenals, from what research I've done, seem to be fine weapons.
titsonritz
08-01-11, 14:26
If you truly want an AKM style rifle, you're going to need a 45* gas block....
The Arsenal SGL and SLR series of weapons are the more modern Kalashnikovs, so they have a 90* gas block...
Is the 90* gas block mechanically superior to the 45* gas block or was the update a cost/ease of manufacture thing?
CaliberClark
08-10-11, 09:10
No century stay away from them
No century stay away from them
My century has been flawless for 3k rounds. I'm not sure what your experience with them is.
Is the 90* gas block mechanically superior to the 45* gas block or was the update a cost/ease of manufacture thing?
Both. The Soviets were getting bullet shear in their AK-74's with the original 45* gas port, and they also found that if they went to a 90* port it almost guaranteed that the port would come in on a groove instead of a land.
To ease production, they instituted the 90* ports and gas blocks on all new AK production, as did the Bulgarians and Poles.
decodeddiesel
08-11-11, 12:37
My century has been flawless for 3k rounds. I'm not sure what your experience with them is.
You got lucky.
That is the problem with Centuries, you might get one that is great, then you might get one that is a nightmare.
You got lucky.
That is the problem with Centuries, you might get one that is great, then you might get one that is a nightmare.
This is a bit over-done.
The Century WASR 10/63s I have seen are decent. If you buy from AIM or Atlantic or Henderson, or pick them up at a show or shop with decent examination your probability of getting a tough, durable, and reliable AK are very good. And, while cruder than an Arsenal, as I understand it, you still get a hammer forged chrome lined EE barrel which should last, AND proper heat treatment of the receiver. i just don't hear that many 'nightmare' complaints (gun burst, unreliable, etc.) on 7.62 WASRs.
I do believe my SAR-1 is a decent serviceable AK which would be GTG if the SHTF. Flawless operation and mag changes are pretty smooth/tight.
My Yugo CAI has a chamber as generous as my 'milspec' SA 85, it is butter smooth, has a DCI reciever, and is VERY accurate for a 7.62 AK. I've also not heard/seen much for 'nightmare' complaints on these. These are NO HF barrels, and are not suited as 'carbine course' AKs per se, but are decent guns IF you can buy in person.
There was a real lemon of a Tantal reported here a while ago which would NOT happen with an Arsenal, so the point is taken. But, it all needs a bit of qualification.
Both. The Soviets were getting bullet shear in their AK-74's with the original 45* gas port, and they also found that if they went to a 90* port it almost guaranteed that the port would come in on a groove instead of a land.
To ease production, they instituted the 90* ports and gas blocks on all new AK production, as did the Bulgarians and Poles.
That was [the shear] never a problem with the original 7.62 AKs with the M-43, was it? I'm guessing it must be due to the geometry of the 7N6?
I didn't read all of the post but one of the best AK's is the Israeli Galil it comes in 5.56x45 or 7.62x51 I haven't seen to many around so they may be hard to find. The 7.62x51 does have a good kick to it though, but with a 25 round mag that is a lot of fire power.
CumbiaDude
10-30-11, 16:52
That was [the shear] never a problem with the original 7.62 AKs with the M-43, was it? I'm guessing it must be due to the geometry of the 7N6?Correct, it was not a problem with the 7.62 rounds. The 5.45 travels faster, making shear more likely off of the oblong hole of an angled gas port. I wonder if the wider grooves of 7.62 made it more forgiving, as well.
abn45bravo
10-30-11, 18:41
Templar is there an "Aproved list of reputable AKM manufacturer's . like we have for M-4's Colt, Bravo Co.,Daniels Defense, and Noveske.
Templar is there an "Aproved list of reputable AKM manufacturer's . like we have for M-4's Colt, Bravo Co.,Daniels Defense, and Noveske.
Unfortunately, the AK world is very different from the AR world.
Things change on a monthly basis, as these weapons either imported or built using imported parts.
Small operations go out of business pretty regularly.
The ban on importation of barrels and receivers has really hurt the AK field. There just isn't an entity here in the US that could match the command economy factories that the former Combloc states have in regards to building them.
Because of that, the one constant that I've found is Arsenal Inc. of Las Vegas, NV. Yes, they have had some ups and downs, but by and large, they are providing OEM foreign factory weapons with correct barrels and receivers.
If you're looking for a budget AK, a Century WASR 10/63 that has been looked over is a good option.
The main thing to avoid, still, are US made barrels. US companies can make some of the best barrels in the world, but unfortunately, the demographic that tends to buy AK's buys at a certain price point, which means you're not going to be getting a premium barrel from someone, you'll be getting one built to a certain price point that I sure as hell wouldn't be happy with.
CumbiaDude
10-31-11, 01:11
The main thing to avoid, still, are US made barrels.+1. I got banned from a certain other forum for saying this, but it's still true. :p
Proper twist rate, chrome lining, gas port drilled into a groove... you'd be hard-pressed to get these from anywhere in the US.
+1. I got banned from a certain other forum for saying this, but it's still true. :p
Proper twist rate, chrome lining, gas port drilled into a groove... you'd be hard-pressed to get these from anywhere in the US.
Its not just barrels, you want a comblock riveted heatreated reciever also. The USA barrels are a complete joke, even chrome lined they are basically black powder barrels machined to look like AK barrels.
Best bet is to look for/inspect an de-sporsterized import.
If you get a reciever from a reputable source they are comparable with the com-block originals. One you should be able to trust 100% for function is Nodak.
CumbiaDude
11-06-11, 20:00
Its not just barrels, you want a comblock riveted heatreated reciever also.
If you get a reciever from a reputable source they are comparable with the com-block originals. One you should be able to trust 100% for function is Nodak.+1 to this. To my knowledge, Nodak has been one of the few cases of an American company doing it just as well as the original factories with fully heat treated receivers.
I know we can do the same for barrels. We just haven't had the will to do so. Perhaps eventually that will change, with the barrel ban. I would love to see a quality US barrel, hammer forged, chrome-lined, proper twist rate. I was just reading about the machinery and process... Ruger has the machines and has opened up to taking contracts from outside sources...
Blue-Jack has made some Krink barrels that show promise. Of course with those we will have to wait some time to see how they last durability wise. But he has made them to correct specs and chromed - so at least that much is right.
CumbiaDude
11-06-11, 22:17
Blue-Jack has made some Krink barrels that show promise. Of course with those we will have to wait some time to see how they last durability wise. But he has made them to correct specs and chromed - so at least that much is right.Exactly. Huge step in the right direction.
What about I.O.? I can't find anything on them here. And how common are good deals on Arsenals? There's an SAM7 for $950 right now and I don't want to miss out if that pretty solid.
I.O. (Inter Ordnance) AK's are absolutely craptastical.
Need more info on the M7, as there were/are several variations.
I.O. (Inter Ordnance) AK's are absolutely craptastical.
Need more info on the M7, as there were/are several variations.
Glad I asked. The Arsenal is no longer listed from what I can see, it was on Gun Broker. I know they retail for just under $2,000 so that's why I was curious. Thanks though. I really want to get one, but not enough to spend that much so I'll just be keeping my eye out.
Arsenal makes a SA-M7-32 which is a SA-M7 classic for California. I think I just found my next rifle. Thanks for all the information in this thread.
Correct, it was not a problem with the 7.62 rounds. The 5.45 travels faster, making shear more likely off of the oblong hole of an angled gas port. I wonder if the wider grooves of 7.62 made it more forgiving, as well.
Thanks! This makes some sense.
For the most part, they've got a decent rep. Definitely check the mag fit, as some are reported to have a loose mag well, and check to make sure the sights aren't canted.
The Green Mt. barrels that are being used in them are decent barrels, remember though that they aren't chrome lined.
Ive been wanting an ak and have been reading the threads on here for awhile. Seems like your name keeps popping up with ak related answers. *hoping you can help me, my friend is selling his yugo and wanted to run it by you and see what you thought. It is a m70ab2 DCI stamped receiver out of st.paul, Minnesota. I checked the front sight and it is not canted, the folding stock feels very solid an there isnt any wobble. The gun seems to be in very good shape and really couldn't find anything wrong with it. He is asking $400 and it also includes 2 hold open yugo mags, 1 polymer waffle mag, and 300 rds of ammo. It seems to be a very good deal to me, just wondering what you thought or if there was anything else I should have looked for. It will be mainly used as a truck gun so I don't have a problem with the underfolder. Appreciate your help.
TOrrock, and all, thanks for the contributions. Great thread, answered many questions. Just one more...
I picked up a used Horn's AK 5+ years back in a trade. Its a romy red g and seems put together decent enough(guessing kit). Only 500 rounds through it (by me) and no problems and good ak accuracy. I just haven't heard anything good or bad and almost no specs. Can you fill me in?
Eta for time frame and Templars new "name".
Instead of editing I'm just going to say all I'm hearing is bad. Reason?
enforcer22
01-18-13, 08:40
Personally I like the Russian guns. Stamped reciever with hammer forged chrome lined barrel.
This whole series is the best one I've seen for what it was written for. For someone who knows nothing about AK's, this is the place to start.
I've been around AK's for over 40 years and learned so much by reading these posts. Thanks to all contributors.
I want to let readers know about a source for AK-74 30 rd mags. There is a new company, www.arakguns.com, that has both TAPCO Intrafuse (19.99) as well as Bulgarian(34.99) 30 round mags in stock ready for sale and shipping. They also build AK-74 rifles and sell through RRC Firearms. Thier work is beautiful and the receivers are new Waffen Werks stamped with all correct factory style indentations.
I carried an AR for Uncle Sam and owned two over the years. But, I'm a huge AK fan and own four of them after selling my last AR in '07. I love them for being inexpensive but reliable rifles (10/63s) and for inexpensive ammo. But those two reasons are no longer generally true. Today one can buy a PSA AR for close to the price of a good entry level AK, and x39 ammo has risen to make it close to cases of X'd 5.56. If I were buying today It'd be ARs only, except for maybe one cheapie AK just for fun.
OK...bringing this ttt.
I have a serious accuracy nut wanting the best AK available (must be scoped for both fun and hunting) but wants an Arsenal cuz of this very thread I linked him to but is open to any better options I have not read. $$$$ NOT an isssue. What 7.62x39 fits the best warrior / survival / hunting AK around?? I said Arsenal...help me hold my word.:cool:
sorry, ak is not my deal and I lean on the sperts here.
What options/model for an ak with optics capabilty is suggested from the Arsenal line and/or any other 'top end' 7.62x39 assault/hunting combo can I suggest???
bring it...
sorry...im way too whooped to search.
alvincullumyork
06-18-13, 22:10
OK...bringing this ttt.
I have a serious accuracy nut wanting the best AK available (must be scoped for both fun and hunting) but wants an Arsenal cuz of this very thread I linked him to but is open to any better options I have not read. $$$$ NOT an isssue. What 7.62x39 fits the best warrior / survival / hunting AK around?? I said Arsenal...help me hold my word.:cool:
sorry, ak is not my deal and I lean on the sperts here.
What options/model for an ak with optics capabilty is suggested from the Arsenal line and/or any other 'top end' 7.62x39 assault/hunting combo can I suggest???
bring it...
sorry...im way too whooped to search.
What about a Krebs?
http://www.krebscustom.com/KalashnikovRifles.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhAcUNjBrNE
What's the consensus on Waffen Werks AK's? I saw that their barrels are US, but at what point does the US barrel become inferior? Is an SLR worth $400+ more than a Waffen?
I have a WW AK-74 that I bought before all the madness began; for the price I got it at it was a great buy. Now they're going for about $150 more than I paid for mine. I haven't had any problems with accuracy or shooting corrosive surplus.
I think people get too wound up about US vs foreign barrels and I sincerely doubt you'll be able to tell the difference. It may not be worth as much as an Arsenal if you try to sell it or trade it down the road, but there are plenty of problems with Arsenal/FIME these days too.
Here's mine, have about 700 rounds through it:
http://franze.green.mysitehosted.com/images/ak74gery_061713_3.jpg
" ....but there are plenty of problems with Arsenal/FIME these days too."
Prepare for your unsupported hit&run slam to bring down some heat. Highly recommend a pre-emptive listing of plenty of problems.
english kanigit
07-27-13, 22:10
" ....but there are plenty of problems with Arsenal/FIME these days too."
Prepare for your unsupported hit&run slam to bring down some heat. Highly recommend a pre-emptive listing of plenty of problems.
Ok then, I'll chime in on this one.
I work at a shop that sells a fair amount of guns. I've been noticing different things with the Arsenals and some Saigas that we've been receiving in the last year. Some fit so tightly they're a terrible PITA to disassemble. Others have had canted FSB or FSB/gas block combos, most are noticeable but not an issue and others are extreme... like the witness mark for windage zero on the front sight drum was made damn near to one extreme of travel and then the whole thing was re-centered before shipping to our shop. (?? Yes, seriously. This was on the rifle I got.) Side-folders on some SGLs or SLRs will be so tight that they need excessive force to move through their whole range of motion. Many further rifles are totally fine. It's an inconsistent but noticeable change in the product for me.
To expand a bit on my personal, direct experience: I bought a SLR-107CR a year ago. This is the rifle with the above mentioned canted FSB. The rear sight base/trunion also appears to be canted a bit too which makes for a funny sight picture but it can be zeroed. I bought this rifle a year ago, roughly zeroed it and then put it in the safe until I had further time and money to mess with it. To prepare for a 2+ mile Run&Gun event I wanted to use this gun. I chopped 1.5" off the barrel and perm. attached a phantom, added a TWS rail, RS light mount with a SF FURY and an Aimpoint micro. I would estimate that between function checking, zeroing after purchase and modification as well as beginning to practice for the upcoming event I had approximately 350-400 rounds through this gun plus a crapload of dryfire. While on the range with a friend checking zero the week before the event I began having malfunctions with the rifle. After firing the hammer would follow the bolt home and I would discover this due to a dead trigger. It could be replicated live fire and dry. A call to Arsenal on 2July lead me to talk with their CS lady. I gave her a basic run-down of the rifle's symptoms and history. As it was going in to the holiday no one was available for further assistance but I told her I planned to swap the FCG from another known-good Arsenal gun into my troublesome -107CR and see if I could isolate the issue. The lady at Arsenal asked that I please let her know what the result of that was and to email her the serial number. When I pulled the gun apart I found excessive wear on the striking face of the hammer and the engagement surfaces of the disconnector and hammer. The hammer, to be frank, looked like hammered shit.
Swapping the FCG brought the rifle back on-line and I went through 200 rounds without issue. An email and several phone calls to Arsenal with the information requested over the next week yielded a reply on 12July that the rifle was out of warranty and their production manager did not think that the problem was as indicated. They were however more than happy to look at and fix the rifle for a cost of $50 and an extra $20 to cover shipping costs. The next day I called and firmly explained that I would not be shipping them a rifle and paying them to find and fix what I had already found and diagnosed and I ask again for them to exchange the FCG within the rifle.
With no positive response from the manufacturer I figured I was on my own. Once I clued him on what was going on, my manager at the FFL where I bought this gun agreed to replace the parts from the store's stocks next time I was in town. Surprisingly, I received an email from Arsenal on 17July asking for my address so the could send the replacement parts with the caveat that I would return the originals for inspection. To this I agreed.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56338680/LF.net/Photo%20Jul%2027%2C%200%2054%2003.jpg
Shown in this picture, going from from left to right is the original hammer from my SLR-107CR (<400 rounds), the brand new replacement hammer from Arsenal( 0 rounds) and the hammer from my SLR-107UR registered SBR ( >2500+ rounds). I made the parts swap today and function checked it on the range. I will be returning the whole original FCG to Arsenal this coming week.
I hope these new parts last at least half as long as those in my krink. Maybe I'm strange but if I drop a kilo-buck on an AK I at least want the damn thing to be well-made and work. :rolleyes:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56338680/LF.net/Photo%20Jul%2027%2C%2019%2034%2054.jpg
Ek
Now that's what I would call a supported slam. Well done. Looking forward to,what others have to contribute.
Sure hope my used Arsenal I am swapping for is from earlier production.
english kanigit
07-27-13, 22:46
Sure hope my used Arsenal I am swapping for is from earlier production.
That's the thing a lot of people don't seem to get. Every company in a given industry makes a certain percentage of crap or unworkable products. It may be small or it may be large based off of the quality of parts, processes and the care with which they are assembled. QC/QA also makes a big difference for those that give a damn in catching stuff before it goes out the door. This is how reputations be they good or bad are built.
To me though, the thing that matters just as much as having a quality product to begin with, is what the manufacturer will do to make it right if it isn't.
Ek
A company I built half-way decent kit cars for in the seventies instituted a QC program to cut down on post-sale customer complaints. But fixing the problems slowed production so they got rid of the inspection. Took about a year to flush their reputation and go belly up. I think the jerks just moved, changed the name and repeated the process.
Being fair, even Waffen Werks has had some reported problems in terms of fit and function; key difference is they're sub $1k. The Arsenals going for $1200-1300 would be worth it if it wasn't becoming a gamble like it is with Century.
All said and done I believe that any rifle one buys from this point to 6 months down the line should be thoroughly inspected - the production ramp up from the panic has taken it's toll on QC everywhere.
Being fair, even Waffen Werks has had some reported problems in terms of fit and function; key difference is they're sub $1k. The Arsenals going for $1200-1300 would be worth it if it wasn't becoming a gamble like it is with Century.
All said and done I believe that any rifle one buys from this point to 6 months down the line should be thoroughly inspected - the production ramp up from the panic has taken it's toll on QC everywhere.
Agreed, sad but true.
I don't know if the member a few posts up went with a Waffen Werks or not; but in the three I have handled they were very tight out of the box, the bolt had to be manually pushed forward to go into full battery for the first couple hundred rounds, afterward things seemed to smooth themselves out. In addition, the dust covers were very tight and difficult to remove/install.
Those Arsenal FCG pics are pretty shocking :eek: ; typically I replace their gritty trigger with a G2, but mine have never mushroomed like that before replacement. All of my Arsenals are from about 3 years ago though, pre FIME and the current madness.
tvfreakarms
02-02-14, 05:31
What scope mount r u using? I have a romy built ak.
Akars?
I have a WW AK-74 that I bought before all the madness began; for the price I got it at it was a great buy. Now they're going for about $150 more than I paid for mine. I haven't had any problems with accuracy or shooting corrosive surplus.
I think people get too wound up about US vs foreign barrels and I sincerely doubt you'll be able to tell the difference. It may not be worth as much as an Arsenal if you try to sell it or trade it down the road, but there are plenty of problems with Arsenal/FIME these days too.
Here's mine, have about 700 rounds through it:
http://franze.green.mysitehosted.com/images/ak74gery_061713_3.jpg
tvfreakarms
02-02-14, 05:33
My romy ak is pretty tight as well. The bolt is not as smooth. Hopefully it will loosen up over time. I only have about 200rds.
TacMedic556
02-02-14, 07:19
I do not own an AK (yet). If I did purchase one, I really like the Arsenal SAM7SF. Hammer forged barrel, hammer forged and CNC machined receiver.
Underwood 43
02-13-14, 20:44
I was wondering if anyone knows why the first page of this thread won't open? When I try I get a database error. I think it has been that way since the overhauled the site. Thanks in Advance.
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Would anyone be able to offer their opinion of a Russian IZHMASH SAIGA AK47? I have an opportunity to purchase a NIB version with a 16" chrome lined barrel and a non pistol grip synthetic stock. I have always had AR's and this would be my first and probably only AK. I would like to have one for general plinking and fun, but don't want to spend much. This is for under $500. What do you think? Thanks...
Cincinnatus
05-14-14, 21:14
A Saiga would be a good chocie.
A Saiga would be a good chocie.
I agree, I think a combloc barrel with matching bolt is the most important thing to look for with AK's. I wish they would bring back the FEG AMD-65 for $300 we deal had a couple years ago, very under-rated rifle and SBR candidate. But you may also want to look at the new PAP Yugo's.
masternave
05-21-14, 12:15
I don't know. It's a shame, because that first page was a *gold* mine.
I was wondering if anyone knows why the first page of this thread won't open? When I try I get a database error. I think it has been that way since the overhauled the site. Thanks in Advance.
Database Error Database error
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I don't know. It's a shame, because that first page was a *gold* mine.
It opens with IE11. Let us know if it still isn't opening with the other browsers 'cause that would be a first that IE11 opens something others can't its always the other way around.
It opens with IE11. Let us know if it still isn't opening with the other browsers 'cause that would be a first that IE11 opens something others can't its always the other way around.
You have to be logged out, that's the secret to the magical first page of the m4carbine AK thread!
Would anyone be able to offer their opinion of a Russian IZHMASH SAIGA AK47? I have an opportunity to purchase a NIB version with a 16" chrome lined barrel and a non pistol grip synthetic stock. I have always had AR's and this would be my first and probably only AK. I would like to have one for general plinking and fun, but don't want to spend much. This is for under $500. What do you think? Thanks...
A buddy of mine has one. It wouldn't feed from standard 30rd AK mags out of the box, but would feed all day and night from a 75rd drum mag, suppressed.
I would only purchase one with the anticipation that I was going to be the final say on quality control, and several modifications might have to be made to get the gun just to cycle. They are made in Russia, the same country that brought forth Lada's, Aeroflot, and Kruschev 5-year plan apartment complexes for peasants.
In that light, I would dial your expectations waaaaaaaayyy down from anything made there. You have to see it firsthand to understand the kind of frozen squalor I'm talking about.
tvfreakarms
02-03-15, 15:53
Look into century arms. It seems they r finally making quality stuff and cheaper. They have some bad reputation but check them out. Go on YouTube and check out shot show 2015 century arms
I do not own an AK (yet). If I did purchase one, I really like the Arsenal SAM7SF. Hammer forged barrel, hammer forged and CNC machined receiver.
Look into century arms. It seems they r finally making quality stuff and cheaper. They have some bad reputation but check them out. Go on YouTube and check out shot show 2015 century arms
That post is a year old.
I just finished wading through all 34 pages; I bought a WASR back in March and am very satisfied; all I wanted was a plain 'service-grade' AK clone, but this thread is starting to stir up my newgunitis for 'nicer' AK variants...
Even though a lot of the information is obviously dated, it was still very interesting and enlightening
tvfreakarms
08-02-15, 19:33
I just finished wading through all 34 pages; I bought a WASR back in March and am very satisfied; all I wanted was a plain 'service-grade' AK clone, but this thread is starting to stir up my newgunitis for 'nicer' AK variants...
Even though a lot of the information is obviously dated, it was still very interesting and enlightening
Did u buy the all american made century ak?
QC seems to be good. Or least that's what they say
2 by 2...hands of blue
No, it is a Century import WASR 10 by Cigur (if I interpret the stamps correctly) made in 2013. I bought it at a local shop, so I was able to personally examine it. Back in the '90s, I worked for a distributor and saw lots of canted front sights, so I definitely checked that. Mine is definitely right & tight. The only misfire in over a thousand rounds was ammo-caused.
Those are good ones to get. Nice AK to have.
Just picked up an m70 opap. Pretty excited to get it cleaned up and take it out to the range for some fun!
gibsonsg05
12-05-15, 22:27
If you can, go Arsenal. Otherwise, check sights and gas-block for cant. Magwell for fit. And headspacing if possible. I also check rivots if your really picky.
DDI is making some fine AK's now.
http://www.ddiarms.com/pages/products
If you can swing it, IMHO, you can't beat a Krebs Custom AK.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t31.0-8/12339428_992158957515677_1436740719987721061_o.jpg
If you can swing it, IMHO, you can't beat a Krebs Custom AK.
So what's the current go to if you don't want to drop north of a grand on a rifle? One thing not currently in my collection is an AK and I'd like to change that....
So what's the current go to if you don't want to drop north of a grand on a rifle? One thing not currently in my collection is an AK and I'd like to change that....
Go for an Arsenal SLR series rifle for right at a grand. If that's still out of budget, go for a WASR at around $600. There are also several American made options that slot in between those two, but that's a whole other can of worms.
Go for an Arsenal SLR series rifle for right at a grand. If that's still out of budget, go for a WASR at around $600. There are also several American made options that slot in between those two, but that's a whole other can of worms.
Noticed some WASRs along with IOInc at the LGS last week. The WASRs looked ok at a casual glance but even my with my limited knowledge of AKs I do know those two have been so-so to bad in the past. I'm just looking for basic though. I'm eyeball deep in ARs and want to try something a bit different....
Noticed some WASRs along with IOInc at the LGS last week. The WASRs looked ok at a casual glance but even my with my limited knowledge of AKs I do know those two have been so-so to bad in the past. I'm just looking for basic though. I'm eyeball deep in ARs and want to try something a bit different....
The WASRs have been getting noticeably better over the last year or so, unless something changed in the last couple of months. I would choose a DDI right now though.
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The WASRs have been getting noticeably better over the last year or so, unless something changed in the last couple of months. I would choose a DDI right now though.
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Any in stock anywhere? I'd like something with either just plainjane furniture or the magpul stuff. The WASRs are on the shelf and can be put on layaway which are both pluses. After using layaway once I'm now addicted...
So what's the current go to if you don't want to drop north of a grand on a rifle? One thing not currently in my collection is an AK and I'd like to change that....
Right now, if I had to pick up a new AK47 for under 1k I would go with DDI. Go to Atlantic Firearms website. Best AK vendor in the country in my limited experience. I got lucky on their website and was able to get a Definitive Arms DAKM-4150 before they sold out (usually in about 1/2 hour). Great rifle, but a little over 1k.
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I'm very satisfied with my WASR. Browse the WASR videos on YouTube and you will find that almot all of tgem are very positive.
I'm very satisfied with my WASR. Browse the WASR videos on YouTube and you will find that almot all of tgem are very positive.
Gotta go my my LGS to pay on the 10mm Kimber I have on lay a way so I'll look them over more closely....
tvfreakarms
02-17-16, 13:50
Looking to buy more ak kits
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Noticed some WASRs along with IOInc at the LGS last week. The WASRs looked ok at a casual glance but even my with my limited knowledge of AKs I do know those two have been so-so to bad in the past. I'm just looking for basic though. I'm eyeball deep in ARs and want to try something a bit different....
WASR's used to be a complete crap shoot, but they have gotten noticeably better in the last year or so. If you want to go cheap, they're the best thing going right now for a good solid rifle at a budget price.
As others have mentioned, DDI makes some great guns as well. Right now most of their AK are kit builds using Hungarian (I think) parts kits and new US made barrels. They melonite the barrels, bolts, carriers, and a few other parts and then spray everything in KG Gunkote. They're high quality builds at affordable prices, and they sell out almost instantly whenever a dealer gets them in. Atlantic Firearms should be getting a shipment of their wood furniture models in a week or two if your interested.
tvfreakarms
02-17-16, 14:40
But ddi and companies alike, their ak's r a bit pricey.
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I recently picked up a used Krebs AK-103K. Thing has barely been shot. Supposed manufacture date is 2007 or so. Thing is, theres no Krebs branding on it. There is Kalashnikov USA branding on it. I have emails out to both companies but no responses yet other than 'send us some info an we will see what we can do'.
Does anyone have info on the early Krebs custom builds done for Kalashnikov USA?
WASR's used to be a complete crap shoot, but they have gotten noticeably better in the last year or so. If you want to go cheap, they're the best thing going right now for a good solid rifle at a budget price.
Good to know. I'm the worlds worst about trying the budget options first, then going better if I like it. I've fired AKs before but on a very limited basis. Want something I can work out a little more and get to know.
I've run nearly 3000rd through my WASR (2013 mfg, if I read the s/n right), about 800 during a two-day training course. I've only had one unintended stoppage, a failure to eject due to a weak cartridge--at the training course, some stoppages were induced with fired cases.
Went and browsed at lunch. The WASRs seemed pretty decent on closer inspection. Didn't feel like anything was off significantly. They also had some IO Incs which to me looked a little better but I know they're still known to have issues. The CIA RAS47s they had seemed to be the best put together but they were in the $750 range. Although on Atlantic I do see that I could get one with magpul furniture, 2 extra mags and other accessories for about that price after I pay shipping and transfer.
Basically by the time I paid sales tax on the WASR, there's only $100 difference between it and the RAS. Not sure if that would be worth it or not...
So where would a norinco mak-90 fall in the hierarchy? Finally hit a placed I've bypassed previous and they've got one on the shelf for $619. Thumbhole stock but was planning to ditch anyway.
Happily also this place is a stocking dealer of BCM, magpul, Vltor and many other pieces of solid kit, with prices comparible to online
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Went and browsed at lunch. The WASRs seemed pretty decent on closer inspection. Didn't feel like anything was off significantly. They also had some IO Incs which to me looked a little better but I know they're still known to have issues. The CIA RAS47s they had seemed to be the best put together but they were in the $750 range. Although on Atlantic I do see that I could get one with magpul furniture, 2 extra mags and other accessories for about that price after I pay shipping and transfer.
Basically by the time I paid sales tax on the WASR, there's only $100 difference between it and the RAS. Not sure if that would be worth it or not...
I would personally steer clear of the American made Century offerings for now. They look nice, but I've seen too many reports of soft metal bolts and trunions. There are much better American kit builds out there for roughly the same price.
So where would a norinco mak-90 fall in the hierarchy? Finally hit a placed I've bypassed previous and they've got one on the shelf for $619. Thumbhole stock but was planning to ditch anyway.
I'm not extremely familer with MAK 90's, but I do know that they are usually regarded as some of the best imports that ever hit our shores, and $615 sounds like a steal if everything is good with that gun.
MAK's are nice guns, I personally would put them a notch above a WASR in terms of fit/finish, though functional quality will be the same. If that MAK has a slanted receiver, be aware of stock limitations. I think most AKM stocks work, but there's a gap.
Realistically, for $750, MAK's, VEPR's (should be back en masse soon), N-PAP's and WASR's are solid buys, just depends on your wants from the rifle. Function will generally be the same (though VEPR's would be the more accurate of the bunch), form is really where they differ. Avoid IO like the plague, and I'd give Century's domestic builds some time before biting. DDI's are seemingly quality rifles, but as long as those first four imports exist... I personally just am not interested in a domestic AK with a 4140 barrel. Just me, plenty of folks are happy with them.
I'm not extremely familer with MAK 90's, but I do know that they are usually regarded as some of the best imports that ever hit our shores, and $615 sounds like a steal if everything is good with that gun.
Yeah, 615 was just their tagged price too. I figure I get get 10% off just by asking.
Further researching, it seems all the thumbhole variants were the slant cut receiver. I did find an adapter to use any standard AKM stock though its like $90. May be worth it if the MAK is a quality weapon. If it works, not sure if that's what I'm looking for or not.
Worse case, I do have a bridgeport. I could mill out a gap filler :D
ARG on YouTube had 19k through his MAK.... I'd say that's a good testament to their quality, as far as a single sample size goes. I wouldn't have a problem using a MAK..
http://www.desertfoxoutfitters.com/commerce/product_info.php?cPath=39_48_57_86&products_id=704
looking at that adapter, even with my novice machining skills I could make a gap filler. Leave the stock tang in place to index off of, then just get the angle right. Have a small lip to fit inside the receiver. It doesn't have to be structural, just cosmetic if the stock still bolts to the tang.
Wonder if there would be a market to make and sell a few?
MAC-90 disappeared so I ended up with a WASR-10 from Atlantic. If anyone is looking for a "my first AK" that's probably a good choice. No issues that I can see and even though it was advertised as coming with "2 mags, type varies" mine came with 2 Magpuls.
What would one look for?
A good price on an Arsenal AK.
I owned a few different AK's years ago but sold them all. They are reliable but not crazy about the design and that loud click when you throw the safety lever. If I were to buy an AK type rifle today I would go with the Arsenal with forged receiver. The Arsenal thumbhole rifle that I owned years back was really very accurate holding 2" groups at 100 yds. The Century WASR gave pie plate size groups and some shots were off the paper . I would be cautious about Century AK's as there was a guy on You Tube that did a rapid fire test, set the wood fore end on fire and and melted the barrel after 250 rds. Century must use very soft steel on these rifles. Century tends to offer lower end product but the good AK's will last.
Moose-Knuckle
05-03-16, 03:44
I would be cautious about Century AK's as there was a guy on You Tube that did a rapid fire test, set the wood fore end on fire and and melted the barrel after 250 rds. Century must use very soft steel on these rifles. Century tends to offer lower end product but the good AK's will last.
Depends on which "Century" AKs we're talking about.
Century imported SAR-1s, SAR-2s, and SAR-3s (imported prior to "barrel ban") are good to go. In fact, the SAR-1 (7.62x39) are one of the closest to E-bloc "mil-spec" one could hope for.
I have a new (bought it this year) Century C39v2 with the Magpul Zhukov folding stock and handguard. It has been very reliable so far. From a bench rest with cheap Tulammo from Walmart and iron sights I have gotten 3" to 4" groups groups at 100 yds. My last outing I ran 300 rounds with no issue. Overall I have about 700 rounds through it. I just added a Ultimak rail and have an Aimpoint T2 to try.
I have a new (bought it this year) Century C39v2 with the Magpul Zhukov folding stock and handguard. It has been very reliable so far. From a bench rest with cheap Tulammo from Walmart and iron sights I have gotten 3' to 4" groups groups at 100 yds. My last outing I ran 300 rounds with no issue. Overall I have about 700 rounds through it. I just added a Ultimak rail and have an Aimpoint T2 to try.
Wow! That's quite a spread! ;)
Ha Ha...:rolleyes: Yeah I know, it's not the best. Considering my eyes aren't that sharp and I was using irons I was pleased. Some were inside 2" but not consistently. I am hoping that with higher quality ammo and practice they will be tighter. This is my first AK. I've got the Ultimak and T2 mounted and am looking forward to trying it.
Ha Ha...:rolleyes: Yeah I know, it's not the best. Considering my eyes aren't that sharp and I was using irons I was pleased. Some were inside 2" but not consistently. I am hoping that with higher quality ammo and practice they will be tighter. This is my first AK. I've got the Ultimak and T2 mounted and am looking forward to trying it.
I was just messing with you. You had a typo & wrote 3 feet to 4 inches.
Damn, I missed that completely. :o
Thanks!
I've shot with friends at the range who owned various AK's. Most of them could barely manage very large ( 4"-10") groups at 100 yds. One guy that I regularly shoot with couldn't even stay on paper with his Century AK but another friend with the very expensive Arsenal rifle shoots 2" groups @ 100 yds, which is what I was getting with mine.
It all depends on the rifle that you purchase. I am very impressed with AK rifle reliability, the 7.62 x 39 round can work well but being an accuracy shooter I stay away from AK's rifles. Just too many brands to choose from, a wide range of quality and very inconsistent accuracy in some of them. The rifle was really designed for front line troops just to throw lead down range quickly.
Moose-Knuckle
05-04-16, 03:05
Here is a recent interview of Jim Fuller on buying an AK . . .
https://www.full30.com/video/f0af39b33b9657c66f7fa5839e43a4be
What would be important to me in an AK would be a milled receiver, mil spec trigger group, a 4150 chrome lined steel barrel poly furniture and something that shoots 2" max groups at 100 yds. In my collection, firearms accuracy is paramount. At the range I see all these AK guys shooting that can barely hit the paper. Some shoot pie plate size groups.
Isn't a rifle worthless, if you cannot hit the target?
What would be important to me in an AK would be a milled receiver, mil spec trigger group, a 4150 chrome lined steel barrel poly furniture and something that shoots 2" max groups at 100 yds. In my collection, firearms accuracy is paramount. At the range I see all these AK guys shooting that can barely hit the paper. Some shoot pie plate size groups.
Isn't a rifle worthless, if you cannot hit the target?
You don't need a milled receiver to have an accurate rifle.
And not many AK's get used by people with any idea what they're doing. I'd be surprised if the majority of AK's you see at the range are legitimately only capable of shooting pie plates.
tvfreakarms
05-20-16, 02:44
They are battle rifles. Not meant to shot moa or better.
2 to 4" is about right.
Now maybe company like rifle dynamics that makes higher end ak's probably will do better.
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They are battle rifles. Not meant to shot moa or better.
2 to 4" is about right.
Now maybe company like rifle dynamics that makes higher end ak's probably will do better.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Exactly, need AR size groups over 7.62x39's penetration and stopping power? AK74 is your answer.
For 'practical accuracy', reliably hitting a man-sized target out to 3-400yd, it's a wash. 3-4 MOA is mil standard for issue rifles few civilian shooters are able to wring even that from their rifles.
When the AK bug finally bit me, I looked for straightness, weight and price point. It all came together for me with my WASR 10. Nearly 3k rounds later, I am still completely satisfied.
For 'practical accuracy', reliably hitting a man-sized target out to 3-400yd, it's a wash. 3-4 MOA is mil standard for issue rifles few civilian shooters are able to wring even that from their rifles.
When the AK bug finally bit me, I looked for straightness, weight and price point. It all came together for me with my WASR 10. Nearly 3k rounds later, I am still completely satisfied.
Maybe so but the tighter the group, the higher the chance of placing a shot on target becomes. I once owned an original arsenal gun (100% Bulgarian made) with a milled receiver and a cold hammer forged barrel and it was dead nuts accurate so AK's can provide that, but many of the AK rifles out there that I've seen are cheaply made, very inaccurate and basically junk. I guess that you get what you pay for but for 30 cal. I lean towards the FAL and HK91/G3 Rifles
tvfreakarms
05-20-16, 15:51
Well milled rec would be a little more stable. But I don't think cause it's milled it will be a tac driver.
Yes a lot of the ak's are basic on the cheap side. Some worst than others.
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Maybe so but the tighter the group, the higher the chance of placing a shot on target becomes. I once owned an original arsenal gun (100% Bulgarian made) with a milled receiver and a cold hammer forged barrel and it was dead nuts accurate so AK's can provide that, but many of the AK rifles out there that I've seen are cheaply made, very inaccurate and basically junk. I guess that you get what you pay for but for 30 cal. I lean towards the FAL and HK91/G3 Rifles
No argument there! :)
Well milled rec would be a little more stable. But I don't think cause it's milled it will be a tac driver.
Yes a lot of the ak's are basic on the cheap side. Some worst than others.
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Milled receivers are more rigid, but there's also a lot of tolerance stacking that goes into them when they are built. I really doubt that the milled receiver alone makes a large difference in the rifle's accuracy potential.
For what the AK was made for, that slight difference in accuracy you get from one AK to another probably shouldn't be the deciding factor of choosing that AK over another rife, at least in my opinion. It's hard to word what I'm trying to say, but basically if that marginal improvement in MOA from one AK to another is that important for the shot, then you should probably using something else.
The other thing that's very often over looked in regards to accuracy from AK's is the ammo itself. Face it, the vast majority of 7.62 x 39 people buy and shoot is the cheapest steel cases ammo they can buy. It's not famous for its precision/consistency.
Even though not all brass .223/5.56 is crazy accurate, I would still say it has better potential than the steel East European stuff. Then again this isn't even taking into account the physical difference in .223 and 30 cal.
tvfreakarms
05-20-16, 22:55
That's true. People just plink with it.
But people that buy ak's isn't buying it to get sub moa.
Well most people
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ramairthree
05-20-16, 23:48
I have been shooting AKs since fam training in the 80s.
Sub 2 MOA?
What ammo do you plan on using.
Besides FA mil guns, and mil ammo,
I have personal AKs in Romanian, Yugo, and chinese flavors since the early 90s. Two with the extra thick stamped receivers I actually prefer over milled.
All Norinco, Wolf, Tula, Bear, etc. ammo I have shot has not been 2 MOA. Some of it is more like 4.
tigershilone
12-18-16, 20:42
What would one look for?
The cheap ammo that was the big draw for the budget crowd. Was cleaning out the ammo area last week and gave a friend (who is into AK and SKS's. He prefers an SKS with mag conversion any day over his AK's) around 2 cases worth of the old norinco 762x39 marked at $2.70 a box of 20 from Long's Drug stores, lol. .13 cents a round and AK's made sense. Current pricing on 762x39 makes me wonder why you would even consider the platform.
The only AK I would own and do own is a Bulgarian, milled Arsenal.
Heck, my phone wasn't updating. Didn't realize this thread was more than a few posts.
What would one look for?
The cheap ammo that was the big draw for the budget crowd. Was cleaning out the ammo area last week and gave a friend (who is into AK and SKS's. He prefers an SKS with mag conversion any day over his AK's) around 2 cases worth of the old norinco 762x39 marked at $2.70 a box of 20 from Long's Drug stores, lol. .13 cents a round and AK's made sense. Current pricing on 762x39 makes me wonder why you would even consider the platform.
Here in Alabama, 7.62x39 is still a bit cheaper than 5.56.
stankyhollywood
01-20-17, 13:57
Dont buy american ak's!!!
Sixgun_Symphony
05-10-17, 12:15
I originally composed this message for TOrrock as a PM (Box is full). So I'll post it here now than as a general inquiry for anyone who may have something of value to add?
I'm giving some serious considerations in making a purchase on an Arsenal SLR106CR (in 5.56). But to be honest I've been doing a ton a digging around and research and I've found such a high degree of mix reviews on the gun in 5.56 that I've become a little weary at this point. Some people have had absolutely no issues and other many. I've read various threads of yours for years now with regards to the AK rifle and wanted to reach out to you personally as I feel like we have similar ideas on what constitutes a "fighting rifle" vs a hobby gun. With your experience on the SLR-106FR, I was hoping maybe you could ease my mind or point me in a different direction.
This will be my 2nd AK. I currently have a Romanian SAR1 with mostly original OEM parts and components. I've done a fair amount of work "dragging it into the 21st century". Without turning it into some wacky gun store commando rifle. While I personally consider myself an "AR guy" and absolutely love BCM 14.5 mid-lengths for example. Something about a well thought out and smartly modernized AK has always given me a warm and fuzzy.
I set up a little list of requirements/criteria for another AK. I've personally always loved the aesthetics of the AK105, So I've wanted to do a rifle alone that similar profile. Which is what brought me to the SLR106CR
1) I want it in 5.56. Ideally, I guess for some commonality with my current primary bulk and defensive ammo purchases. I happen to rather be a strong proponent of modern good projectile designs in 556. Not that 762x39 is a particularly harsh shooting loading. I would prefer something a little cleaner in recoil characteristics and more appropriate within a home defense setting. Having said that, a lot of the negative reviews I've seen of the gun in 5.56 I am somewhat willing to go the 107CR (762x39) or even 5.45 route if reliability is generally going to be better? Tho nothing in the 545 particularly excites me from a premium ammo defensive line of thinking (ideally barrier blind type projectiles)
2) I like the fact that it already has the front sight/gas block combo, which is an upgrade I did on my SAR1 and likely something I would do on almost any AK from now on. So the barrel of the 106CR could be shortened to 14.5" if I decided to do that again and add a modern effective US made muzzle device with a little less work than what it took for my SAR1 another time around. Which is definitely something I may do. Not initially I'd plan on leaving it with that "AK105" look.
3) I like the idea of the folding stock, for storage and transport.
Immediate changes I have planned with the 106CR is an Ultimak gas tube. Mounting a Micro RD and VLTOR/G2X forward and a US Palm AK grip and that's it. With a much later possible/likely idk change to the barrel configuration (shorten to 14.5 and perm a good muzzle brake.)
I plan on using good magazines of course. Circle 10 and Polish Beryl 5.56
I just don't want to spend $1000+ and have a frustrating experience. That some to have had and others not at all.
look for a factory made AK not american......i think Bulgarian is the best current option.
Thank you for the great information. The AK-15 is a good choice and best air rifles...
Just get an arsenal or vepr. This is one option.
FromMyColdDeadHand
07-01-20, 22:13
Arsenal still the way to go? Looking for a ‘standard’ Ak in 762x39. Not looking to tactical it up. Prefer wood stock. Not a collection piece, just a shooter.
A basic ‘service-grade’ AK is what I went for when I bought my WASR. It’s not fancy, just functional. I’m completely satisfied.
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