PDA

View Full Version : Angled BUIS



wild_wild_wes
11-27-11, 10:12
Anyone using angled BUIS? They are on the Army's wish-list for an M110 replacement:


The US Army has issued a request to the private sector to reconfigure or replace the current Knight Armament M110 sniper rifle as the current version of the M110 is not functioning well in the field requiring significant maintenance and replacement of parts.

The specifications the US Army has issued are as follows:

1.Operation: Semi-automatic
2.Caliber: Compatible with 7.62x51mm NATO cartridges
3.Accuracy: Capable of 1.3 minute of angle dispersion or better with match ammunition
4.Size: Overall length shall be reduced using a shorter barrel and/or collapsible buttstock. Maximum length not to exceed 39 without suppressor. Desired minimum length is less than 36 with stock collapsed.
5.Weight: Weight shall be under 9.0 lb for unloaded rifle without optics and accessories
6.Grip: A modular, adjustable pistol grip.
7.Trigger: A non-adjustable match style trigger.
8.Hand guard: A forend that includes a fixed 12 o’ clock rail with configurable 3, 6, and 9 o’ clock rails.
9.Sound suppressor: A muzzle mounted, detachable sound suppressor.
10.Muzzle device: A compensator/muzzle brake compatible with the sound suppressor.
11.Bipod: Tool-less detachment featuring cant and pan/track capability.
12.Day optic: An Army specified variable power day optic and compatible rings.
13.Back up sights: Iron sights offset 45 deg from the DOS.
14.Sling attachment: Flush cup, quick detach sling attachment points.
15.Other: The upgraded M110 must meet the operational and environmental requirements that were fulfilled by the original M110 SASS.

So, if you are using them, fill us in on them please!

Paraclete comes
11-27-11, 12:11
I have a set of them from Surefire and they are great. I was a little hesitant at first thinking they would be snagging my gear. But they haven't snagged up and run great. Very easy to zero compared to my docters and other mrd's. I like the fact they don't need baterys and are extremely solid!

I will put a set eventually on every long gun I have.

wild_wild_wes
11-27-11, 14:46
The Surefires are fixed. Are there adaptors for folding BUIS...or would that defeat the purpose? It seems to me the fixed would be faster of course for rapid transitions, but they do stick out a bit and might snag stuff.

kmrtnsn
11-27-11, 15:31
The Surefires are fixed. Are there adaptors for folding BUIS...or would that defeat the purpose? It seems to me the fixed would be faster of course for rapid transitions, but they do stick out a bit and might snag stuff.

No more so than a scope and a bipod would, or fixed sights at the 12 o'clock like on any other rifle.

PrarieDog
11-27-11, 20:37
JP rifles sells a 45 adapter that puts it on line with their handguard at the 1:30 position. I mounted a set of magpul mbuis and they work great. They are a very low profile and are quick to access. I have been thinking of upgrading to metal sites as I could run a tritium front site.

Suwannee Tim
11-27-11, 20:47
I ordered a set of Duecks from a distributor and they got back-ordered. I then ordered from Dueck and they promptly shipped. Then my back-order arrived. Oh well, might as well keep them. I put one set on an LMT 7.62 and the other on my 5.45. I've shot maybe a thousand cartridges with them, they work and I like the concept. I need one more set but they are pricey so they will have to wait a couple months or years.

TehLlama
11-28-11, 02:10
KAC does sell folding angled BUIS. 45 degrees might be a bit much rotation, but for a precision rifle that doesn't have an IR LD mounted on either adjacent side, seems like it will work fine. Not going to be as fast as the Dueck/SF fixed ones if they're not already deployed, but for the added cost and complexity you can stow them out of the way on a rifle you're primarily going to use the glass with, and have irons available without having to detach a zoom optic.

Cameron
11-28-11, 02:16
Britain and New Zealand just adopted the LMT MWS the Kiwis with the angled Dueck BUIS... it makes me wonder if the LMT MWS might soon replace the Knight's for the US Army.

Cameron

caelumatra
11-28-11, 02:17
The Surefires are fixed. Are there adaptors for folding BUIS...or would that defeat the purpose? It seems to me the fixed would be faster of course for rapid transitions, but they do stick out a bit and might snag stuff.

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1326

But to me, if I'm going to snag something I'd rather it have as few mounted parts as possible.

With a fixed setup you're looking at 2 mounts that could come loose if hit hard enough and lose zero.

Where as on a system like I linked there, you have to mount it, then mount the sight to it. So 4 places where the zero could be lost.

However, the cost is less for the separate setup. $37x2 then $75 for the MBUS'. $150 for the whole thing and the Surefires are $240

wild_wild_wes
11-29-11, 20:34
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1326

Cool, but that looks like its just for MRDs. I think with irons they would be too high. If I could afford another T-1 though...

LAWMENS
11-30-11, 09:08
I don't want to come off as one of those guys that always plugs their product be we are pretty proud of our 45 offset sights.

45 degree offset folding sight (http://www.knightarmco.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=96)

wild_wild_wes
11-30-11, 18:43
I have a set of the KAC micros. Are the offset brackets sold seperate?

LAWMENS
12-01-11, 09:12
I have a set of the KAC micros. Are the offset brackets sold seperate?

No they do not, the new offset sights actually dovetail into the mount to allow the user to mount the sights on the preferred side depending if they are a lefty or righty.

PrarieDog
12-03-11, 23:53
Those are a very nice set up. I like them better than the duedek set. I am happy with what I have but would consider those on a future build.

Suwannee Tim
12-05-11, 12:14
I might try the Knight sights instead of the Dueck for my next purchase. I like the thumbwheel on the front sight.

BigNog
12-08-11, 21:52
Why run these over say a T-1 in an offset mount?

wild_wild_wes
12-08-11, 21:55
Why run these over say a T-1 in an offset mount?

No reason I can see except for cost. I will be going with a T-1/angle mount combo.

TAZ
12-10-11, 19:35
I am obviously missing something, cause the only advantage I can see to a set of fold down angled BUIS is the ability to get them up and running faster than as set of BUIS mounted at the 12 o'clock position. Guess they also give one the option of not needing QD mounts or rings for primary optics. I can see the fixed angle units being usable in short range situations if youre using more of a long range primary optic. Have a 2.5-10 or bigger primary and then being stuck having to engage inside 50 yds or worse even inside room distances. Here the fixed unit could save you money instead of running a T1 or RMR and an offset, however the fold down would be useless you knew you were about to get into trouble and opened them up ahead of time.

PrarieDog
12-11-11, 18:20
I have a set of fold down angle mounted sights and have to disagree with you in that you flip them up when you go to use the rifle but for storage they fold down nice and low. They are very quick to put into use if need be but otherwise they are not something that would get hung up.

TAZ
12-11-11, 18:33
I have a set of fold down angle mounted sights and have to disagree with you in that you flip them up when you go to use the rifle but for storage they fold down nice and low. They are very quick to put into use if need be but otherwise they are not something that would get hung up.

Hadnt thought about running the fold down units open during use. The Knights units don't lock in place as far as I know. Has that been an issue.... Getting partially moved about during hard use. Any durability issues with the fold downs?

FishingFool
12-11-11, 23:29
No reason I can see except for cost. I will be going with a T-1/angle mount combo.

Irons don't get foggy or blurred with condensation. Espc when going in and out of air conditioned vehicles.

Paraclete comes
12-12-11, 19:32
I have to say the surefire's are my favorite for a few reasons. I do like the look of the knights and have a friend who uses them with no complaint. It looks like they are excellent for storage and transport.

However for me in particular and my personal experience and preference; i like the fact that the surefire is constantly deployed. I have experienced a few missed shots on shit heads, after VERY limited exposure. I mean very limited! It happened when we were on a roof top doing our thing out to 500-600 meters, so I've got the gun working with the Schmidt at maybe 10-12. Then all the sudden fricken mohammed pops out to a flank at like 50 or so meters. So I snap the gun over and Im looking through my S&B "straw". Needless to say while im searching for a sight picture, shit head has disappeared into a ditch and some thick grass. SO my personal experience and those of friends in the same work, has been that when you need it you really need it. I have generally not had time to deploy such things as fold down sights.

Just my two cents and my experience.

Someone else here asked why the irons at 45 instead of an aimpoint or Docter. Well for me its rugged design, battery free and very simple to zero. Not to mention half the price of the two other optics is up against.

BigNog
12-12-11, 21:01
Irons don't get foggy or blurred with condensation. Espc when going in and out of air conditioned vehicles.

Doesn't seem like much of a justification, by that logic people should ditch aimpoints/eotechs to run irons in general, not just offsets.

FishingFool
12-14-11, 00:47
Or run an angled buis with the aimpoint or eotech. It's an hour drive to the range for me and with the extreme humidity it takes a little while for the condensation to go away. Just throwing it out there while brainstorming.

On a funny note: I once got to a match late and after registering I was up next. It was in the dead of summer and my rifle was on my backseat inside a soft case soaking up the air conditioning during the car ride. By the time I got all my gear ready and took the rifle out of the case everyone was ready to go. Lo and behold, I still could not do much with all the beads of water forming on the rear lens. Over 20 degree temp difference and over 90% humidity sucks. :)


Sent using Tapatalk

KevinB
12-14-11, 10:46
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Idaho027.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/frontreardown.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/rearrearup.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/frontrearup.jpg

CarlosDJackal
12-14-11, 10:59
...Lo and behold, I still could not do much with all the beads of water forming on the rear lens. Over 20 degree temp difference and over 90% humidity sucks. :)

I had the same issue while shooting a carbine course in a torrential downpour. I just reached up and wiped the beads of water with my gloved hand and drove on.

Meanwhile, while trying to zero my M16A2 one Spring day, also in a downpour with high winds; I could not even see through my peep sight because of all the water that filled the peep. I tried blowing the water out but by the time I got my cheek up to the rifle it would bead up again.

Thankfully they called the rest of the effort off. There was no way we could have zeroed (I actually managed to zero in 6-rounds in between downpours) much less qualified in that weather.

I'll take an RDS over iron sights any day.

TAZ
12-14-11, 16:06
Love the looks of the Knights flip ups, especially how low they sit on the top rail. Unless they have some serious locking mech built to keep them upright during hard use IMO they are for back up only after primary optic failure. Relying on them being in the upright position and ready to engage an immediate CQB threat is a risky proposition to me. Without a lock of some sort that is. IMO if one is using the 45deg offset irons as a CQB type sighting option working in conjunction with long range glass they need to be fixed.

TiroFijo
12-14-11, 17:09
From the picture (mounted on the right side) it seems you have to rotate the rifle the get a decent sight picture. In this case, I understand the use of flip-up BUIS for up to 250 m (basically zero at 200, mainly for relatively close shots like a normal BUIS), but I don't see the point of using the graduations in this position for extended ranges.

nimslerpon
12-17-11, 23:34
I don't own any, but I've considered putting them on my SPR build.

Benito
12-07-12, 02:22
I have a similar situation that I am stumped on how to resolve.
I have a 308 AR (Mega Arms MA-Ten), with a Vortex PST 2.5-10x44.

Here`s the thing:
I already have a set of Troy`s folding battle sights, which I love.

I am looking for a way to mount my Troys so that they clear the magnified optic.

The Dueck Defense RTS seem like a good option but, again I prefer to find something that can work with my Troys.

KAC makes their own folding offset BUIS.
However, I believe that these do not lock in the up or down position. That`s something I very much like about the Troy units.

I`ve tried sticking the Troy BUIS onto the Haley Strategic Partners Thorntail Offset Adaptive Light Mount (excellent product, btw), but it will not clear the optic.

Anybody have any other solution alternatives?

M4Fundi
12-07-12, 03:46
Now is the Dueck and Surefire the same sight?

BrigandTwoFour
12-07-12, 11:44
FWIW a new set is coming out that looks interesting to me. The KAC offsets have always had my attention, but I'm really liking the looks of the new Diamondheads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jNo9hHY11hQ

Benito
12-08-12, 01:28
FWIW a new set is coming out that looks interesting to me. The KAC offsets have always had my attention, but I'm really liking the looks of the new Diamondheads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jNo9hHY11hQ

That is a darn clever idea. That would definitely solve my issue.
Thanks for the heads up.

The_Hammer_Man
12-08-12, 06:40
http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPROS

This is the solution I found for the "big scope" issue a previous poster had. I installed a pair of these and mounted my Troys to them.

And yes.. I predeploy my sights before I even slap a mag into the wep.

Benito
12-08-12, 19:47
http://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPROS

This is the solution I found for the "big scope" issue a previous poster had. I installed a pair of these and mounted my Troys to them.

And yes.. I predeploy my sights before I even slap a mag into the wep.

Yes, that looks like it would work, too.
Thanks for the help, guys.
I 've seen that JP part before. I forgot all about it.

jhatheway
12-13-12, 19:01
I really like the looks of those knights. Can those be mounted to the 45 on the left side of the rifle for use lefty shooters.

Matman87
12-13-12, 22:05
Got to see the knights in person recently and I think I'll pick up a set eventually. Nice setup for an M110 or SPR where you may know I'm going to an environment that's closer and wont be needing 10x scope for a bit. Or if the scope breaks you have a badass match grade sight!

bleaman225
12-13-12, 23:21
I have a set of the Duecks on my LMT MWS/Loopy MK6 3-18. I like them plenty. The transition is easy and I have never snagged them on anything but then again I'm not humping my blaster in any serious situations. I haven't used them for much since the day I zeroed them but such is the life of BUIS...


I really like the looks of those knights. Can those be mounted to the 45 on the left side of the rifle for use lefty shooters.

Post #13 of this thread....
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1156893&postcount=13

jhatheway
12-14-12, 00:56
I totally missed that. Thanks

RHINOWSO
01-20-13, 15:06
I have a set of the offset KAC sights on my SCAR 17 which has a IOR 1.5-8x primary optic.

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx113/rhinowso/FN%20SCAR/673F8BFB-C6D0-4690-882B-0A3C965FDAD2-19543-000005166F508A20.jpg

I considered other offset irons mentioned here, as well as offset optics like Trijicon and Aimpoints.

I went with the KACs for two reason, first to try the concept without breaking the bank. Second I like the idea of irons when dealing with condensation / frost, plus there are no batteries to burn out or buttons to turn the sight on or off.

Flip downs are nice as they stay out of the way, but of course they aren't always deployed either. My habit when hunting hogs was to deploy them as soon as left the house (on my property) and stow them walking back through the door. I zero them at 25yds and they work well for quick hits.

Again, not saying the KACs are ideal, they are more of a proof of concept for me. And offset Trijicon RMR would be really nice, but considering the cost for that, I'm sticking with the KACs for now.

RHINOWSO
01-20-13, 15:16
Obviously offset irons are more useful for a rifle with an optic with higher low magnification that my 1.5-8, but it is useful when the scope is on 8x and you want-need to take a quick shot and there isn't time to zoom out. I have no issue shooting both eyes open at 1.5x, it's more needed when you're at higher mag.