View Full Version : NFA Only? Advantages/Disadvantages?
Hey guys, just had a question about the advantages or disadvantages of only owning NFA weapons? I'm talking SBR's here vs 16"+ length. Cost of ownership aside...
I thought I had read something here posted by somebody who said that it wasn't a good idea to only own SBRs. Can't remember the reasoning, but I know that if I ever get into the NFA game, shooting a suppressed SBR would probably take the vast majority of my shooting over a longer barrel unless it was more of a precision role. This brings me to the question of WHY I would want a non-NFA upper?
I know traveling with a SBR (say to a training course) is a little more complicated than a non-NFA upper, but is there any other reason to have one over a SBR?
Hope this question isn't too "muddy", but just wanted to get some opinions on the matter...
I own one 16" AR-15 if I have to travel to communist Iowa or some other leftist shit hole.
All my other AR-15s that I use are SBRs.
I don't see any drawback of having only SBRs. It would make your collection more versatile as you can use any length upper at any time.
Another reason to have a 16"+ upper is if you want to hunt with your gun and need the velocity.
Having all your lowers SBR'd would be optimal. There's no down side to having one or some of your guns SBR'd.
I've never ran into anyone who's given a crap about the status of my lowers. :confused:
Im planning on SBRing all of my ARs from here on.
Im keeping the M4 for the history and its a great shooter.
I like the idea that my friends cant ask to borrow the SBRs
Now that I think about it, I think it was the issue with traveling to/through states that weren't NFA friendly that I read about. I probably won't be doing that much, but who knows....just was wondering if there were any other things I might be overlooking?
I had a friend awhile back.
He was going to mexico and wanted to know where he should put his CCW!!
I advised HIGHLY against this.
He argued and did it anyway.
My logic on not being able to go to certain places with my weapons....I dont go there.
Its that easy
I like the idea that my friends cant ask to borrow the SBRs
This is another reason to SBR the rifle.
I have used this excuse a number of times when I get asked to loan a gun. I don't have to lie or feel bad when I tell them no.
I own one 16" AR-15 if I have to travel to communist Iowa or some other leftist shit hole.
All my other AR-15s that I use are SBRs.
I don't see any drawback of having only SBRs. It would make your collection more versatile as you can use any length upper at any time.
Another reason to have a 16"+ upper is if you want to hunt with your gun and need the velocity.
You actually just need a 16"+ upper receiver. Any SBR is a Title 1 gun if it has an upper on it with a 16"+ barrel, for the duration that upper is mated to the lower.
Having a non-NFA isn't a bad idea if you want to travel somewhere on short notice and want to bring a rifle with you.
Having a non-NFA isn't a bad idea if you want to travel somewhere on short notice and want to bring a rifle with you.
This is really the only reason I have non-NFA AR's.
You actually just need a 16"+ upper receiver. Any SBR is a Title 1 gun if it has an upper on it with a 16"+ barrel, for the duration that upper is mated to the lower.
I know. I don't use separate uppers. Every one is built into a rifle.
My 16" upper is built into a rifle that I can grab and go.
There's very little downside. I only have one lower so a 12.5" upper is the primary and I switch to a stainless 16" for shooting tiny groups (eventually at long distances).
dakotalawdog
11-28-11, 21:29
Technically, even if you put a 16" upper on an SBRd lower, and are going to be traveling across state lines, you need to complete the applicable ATF paperwork to temporarily transport it, and you can't bring it into the pinko-commie states.
Otherwise, the only other disadvantage is being able to let your friend borrow it, or maybe if something happens to you, it will be a little harder for wife / family to take possession of them.
If you're thinking about running a bunch of uppers on an SBR, check out the A5 receiver extensions from VLTOR. You can switch between an SBR, 20" barrel and everything in between without having to worry about buffer weight and reliability.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=vltor+a5&Search.x=0&Search.y=0
Technically, even if you put a 16" upper on an SBRd lower, and are going to be traveling across state lines, you need to complete the applicable ATF paperwork to temporarily transport it, and you can't bring it into the pinko-commie states.
no...
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy346/ryknoll3/TransportingAnSBR-1.jpg
http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy346/ryknoll3/ATFLetter-SBR.jpg
Please make sure that you know what you are talking about when posting this kind of stuff.
It's confusing enough without muddling the issue more.
Technically, even if you put a 16" upper on an SBRd lower, and are going to be traveling across state lines, you need to complete the applicable ATF paperwork to temporarily transport it, and you can't bring it into the pinko-commie states.
Otherwise, the only other disadvantage is being able to let your friend borrow it, or maybe if something happens to you, it will be a little harder for wife / family to take possession of them.
If you're thinking about running a bunch of uppers on an SBR, check out the A5 receiver extensions from VLTOR. You can switch between an SBR, 20" barrel and everything in between without having to worry about buffer weight and reliability.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=vltor+a5&Search.x=0&Search.y=0
intensional
11-29-11, 09:19
no...
Thank you for posting that letter. I assumed that was the case, but didn't know for sure.
CarlosDJackal
11-29-11, 12:48
Hey guys, just had a question about the advantages or disadvantages of only owning NFA weapons? I'm talking SBR's here vs 16"+ length. Cost of ownership aside...
I thought I had read something here posted by somebody who said that it wasn't a good idea to only own SBRs. Can't remember the reasoning, but I know that if I ever get into the NFA game, shooting a suppressed SBR would probably take the vast majority of my shooting over a longer barrel unless it was more of a precision role. This brings me to the question of WHY I would want a non-NFA upper?
I know traveling with a SBR (say to a training course) is a little more complicated than a non-NFA upper, but is there any other reason to have one over a SBR?
Hope this question isn't too "muddy", but just wanted to get some opinions on the matter...
If you decide at the last minute to visit family or friends for the weekend who happen to own enough land that you can shoot at. Unless: (A) They live in a state that accepts your NFA item; and (B) You had enough foresight to have a current ATF Form 5320 on file; your SOL.
I have a 14.7" with PA FH version of my favorite rifle just for such an occasion. Outside of the barrel length, everything is set up the same as my primary SBR. You can even get away with this if all you have is an non-NFA upper. According to a recent BATFE letter mating SBR lower to a non-SBR upper temporarilty renders it as a non-NFA item and does not require the same paperwork until you replace it with the NFA upper. NOTE: See the letters posted johnson above.
Good luck!!
If you decide at the last minute to visit family or friends for the weekend who happen to own enough land that you can shoot at. Unless: (A) They live in a state that accepts your NFA item; and (B) You had enough foresight to have a current ATF Form 5320 on file; your SOL.
I have a 14.7" with PA FH version of my favorite rifle just for such an occasion. Outside of the barrel length, everything is set up the same as my primary SBR. You can even get away with this if all you have is an non-NFA upper. According to a recent BATFE letter mating SBR lower to a non-SBR upper temporarilty renders it as a non-NFA item and does not require the same paperwork until you replace it with the NFA upper. NOTE: See the letters posted johnson above.
Good luck!!
Yes, this is exactly what I planned on doing, having a "training" rig that is set up exactly or at least close to my "go-to" rig. Only thing that I wanted to avoid was having to pin a flash hider. I might just have to go with the 16" even though I would prefer a 14.5".
With the Form 5320, does that form give you permission to go out of state in general, or does it have to be a specific location for a specific period of time?
Thanks for all the responses so far guys.
Now that I think about it, I think it was the issue with traveling to/through states that weren't NFA friendly that I read about. I probably won't be doing that much, but who knows....just was wondering if there were any other things I might be overlooking?
Remember you can also slap a non SBR,16" or greater upper on your SBR and you are good to go, as long as you do not possess the SBR upper when/while traveling. :)
I only want SBR's myself too. I did just order a 16" dedicated .22 upper that I may get cut down to match my other guns. Not sure yet.
The SBR/SBS is not like a machine gun it is a SBR/SBS by definition only while wearing the shorty bbl.
CarlosDJackal
12-01-11, 14:37
...With the Form 5320, does that form give you permission to go out of state in general, or does it have to be a specific location for a specific period of time?
Thanks for all the responses so far guys.
It has to be specific for overnight stays but can be filed for 12-month increments. The NFA Branch told me to put the range on which I pan on using the item in my form if I do not have a specific hotel or home address that I can identify ahead of time. This mitigates the chances of me being in violation should I change my RON location after receiving the approved forms.
Except for my sister's home (which I visit regularly) this is pretty much what I've done and I use the maximum date range (12-months) where appropriate. This alleviated the need for me to re-submit a form if I plan on visiting the same range at least once more before the 12-month period is up.
Good luck!!
Having a non-NFA isn't a bad idea if you want to travel somewhere on short notice and want to bring a rifle with you.
yeah.. this is a good point. a standard long arm is more legally versatile....
a friend of mine made the point that basically any legally justifiable defensive shooting is bound to happen inside of 100 yards... probably more likely within 50 feet. an SBR is ideal for this.
IMHO it depends on how you get the tax stamp for each NFA item. If you do a trust than I would not NFA all my lowers since trust laws are always subject to change and are governed by the state. If you do decide to do a trust I would go to an attorney that specializes in NFA trusts (can be upwards of $600) and not use a cheap computer program. As for me, I only need 1 lower per platform (AR15, AR10, ect.) to be NFA since at that point the uppers don't make a difference and you can change your upper until your blue in the face.
Eurodriver
12-02-11, 08:53
IMHO it depends on how you get the tax stamp for each NFA item. If you do a trust than I would not NFA all my lowers since trust laws are always subject to change and are governed by the state. If you do decide to do a trust I would go to an attorney that specializes in NFA trusts (can be upwards of $600) and not use a cheap computer program. As for me, I only need 1 lower per platform (AR15, AR10, ect.) to be NFA since at that point the uppers don't make a difference and you can change your upper until your blue in the face.
How on earth do you keep a bunch of uppers without lowers for them?
I hate to play into the "I have OCD" game, but I'm serious. I can't have spare parts. I actually just built another SBR because I had a spare ACOG. Having a few SBR uppers just chilling in the safe by themselves because I only had one SBR lower would mean another $300 to BCM and $200 for a tax stamp.
How on earth do you keep a bunch of uppers without lowers for them?
I hate to play into the "I have OCD" game, but I'm serious. I can't have spare parts. I actually just built another SBR because I had a spare ACOG. Having a few SBR uppers just chilling in the safe by themselves because I only had one SBR lower would mean another $300 to BCM and $200 for a tax stamp.
Because I'm broke ass poor and still haven't figured out how to shoot all the uppers at the same time.
IMHO it depends on how you get the tax stamp for each NFA item. If you do a trust than I would not NFA all my lowers since trust laws are always subject to change and are governed by the state. If you do decide to do a trust I would go to an attorney that specializes in NFA trusts (can be upwards of $600) and not use a cheap computer program. As for me, I only need 1 lower per platform (AR15, AR10, ect.) to be NFA since at that point the uppers don't make a difference and you can change your upper until your blue in the face.
I see what you are saying to an extent but it is always nice to have a second. This really holds true if you are going to a training class or something. The ability to just grab another rifle that is configured the same way is nice.
Personally I have two 20 inch ar-15's that are not sbr'd because I like how they feel and two sbr'd ones(second is in progress). The second is going to have an upper setup pretty much the same as the first even though I might have another upper or two to try out on it.
How on earth do you keep a bunch of uppers without lowers for them?
I hate to play into the "I have OCD" game, but I'm serious. I can't have spare parts. I actually just built another SBR because I had a spare ACOG. Having a few SBR uppers just chilling in the safe by themselves because I only had one SBR lower would mean another $300 to BCM and $200 for a tax stamp.
I have an 8", 12.5", and 16" using the same lower. Just swap out as needed.
Eurodriver
12-02-11, 11:01
I have an 8", 12.5", and 16" using the same lower. Just swap out as needed.
That doesn't bother you? Do you have any intentions of getting more? I ask because if I were in your situation I would immediately buy a 2nd lower to use with the 16" permanently, and then eventually buy a 3rd lower, have it SBR'd, and use it on the other SBR upper.
Again, I'm not being ridiculous. I would like to know because I've spent thousands of dollars needlessly on lower receivers. I just bought 2 more yesterday. (Not NFA, but they will be...) This is also coming from a guy who's bought individual suppressors for each weapon (and I am not rich, just foolish apparently)
I can't speak for others, but my perspective changed the week my dad died, 12 years ago. Seeing my mom have to comprehend the task of divesting so many things affected my view of what I wanted my wife to have to deal with in the event of my demise, be it form 4 or trust.
There was a time when I had the Porsche 911, multiple MP5's, more toys than needed, etc. but I wholeheartedly don't want my wife to have to deal with getting rid of that stuff if a bus runs me over. I've since tried to differentiate wants from needs.....albeit potentially unsuccessfully.
SBR only? -for me, no, one gets it done. For someone else, knock yourself out!
I can't speak for others, but my perspective changed the week my dad died, 12 years ago. Seeing my mom have to comprehend the task of divesting so many things affected my view of what I wanted my wife to have to deal with in the event of my demise, be it form 4 or trust.
There was a time when I had the Porsche 911, multiple MP5's, more toys than needed, etc. but I wholeheartedly don't want my wife to have to deal with getting rid of that stuff if a bus runs me over. I've since tried to differentiate wants from needs.....albeit potentially unsuccessfully.
SBR only? -for me, no, one gets it done. For someone else, knock yourself out!
I was in the same boat, in that I didn't want my wife to have to deal with any of that. My main concern was her being in a proper state of mind after losing her husband to deal with my "toys". I worked with my attorney to add specific language about selling the items, the addition of a co-trustee if she needed or wanted one, and the ability to resign completely and not deal with it. I also included a prepared letter of resignation with the trust so all that she has to do is sign and date it to have the next trustee take over.
We also sat down and talked about what was involved in keeping them, selling them, and constructive possession. Only once she was comfortable with the process did I move forward with the trust.
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