View Full Version : FDE M&P 45 range report...
Finally got a chance to get my FDE M&P 45 to the range for a minute. A hectic schedule has kept me from doing so already.
I'll admit upfront that this isnt much of a range report. I only had about an hour this morning to make a quick trip to the local indoor range, so I was limited in both how many rounds I could shoot, how long, and what kind of drills I could do. Round count was only 100 rounds. 50 Atlanta Arms 230 gr FMJ and 50 Federal American Eagle 230 gr FMJ.
That said....... I continue to be impressed with the M&P's, and especially the 45's. Accuracy was excellent. Recoil continues to be very controlable, especially for a light weight .45 handgun. I have 10-8 sights on all my other M&P's, and shooting this one today with the stock sights, showed me just how much I have come to love all black rear sights. I have also been running the medium grip piece on my 45's, but I think I have decided I like the small better. Its very much like a 1911 grip with the small piece on.
Groups were excellent considering the ammo and sights. As mentioned, it was very controlable. Doing 2-4 rounds NSR's were all easily kept in the large ring of the upper chest area of a EAG/10-8 target. I didnt experience any malfunctions.
John_Wayne777
12-01-07, 21:04
At the low light course Ken said that the .45 caliber M&Ps were incredibly accurate guns for some reason....
He theorized that it was kind of a happy accident for S&W....:D
Accident or on purpose, they just hit. And are very controllable at the same time. There are some things I'd like to say about them, but I wont....................yet......
Must... figure... out... way... to... lighten... the... trigger...
Must... figure... out... way... to... lighten... the... trigger...
Why? These are fighting handguns, not 1000 yd precision rifles.
Why? These are fighting handguns, not 1000 yd precision rifles.
Because a lightened trigger allows accurate hits. Duh. It's all about trigger control... hence why double actions aren't as popular as anything in single action.
Lots of practice makes accurate hits. ;) Honestly, a 5 lb trigger is not a hinderance to combat accuracy. I honestly think that people (not saying you) get way to hung up on having a 2 lb sneeze on it to fire it trigger. Yes, a very light trigger will make extreme pinpoint accuracy easier to accomplish in a static range session shooting bullseye matches at 25 yards. But on a fighting gun, if you cant make hits at 7-15 yrds with a 5 lb trigger, you need more range/class time, not a lighter trigger. :)
Note - I use 5 lb's as a reference, as thats approximately what most Glocks, M&Ps, good 1911's, etc... come with stock, give or take a half lb or so. definitely not talking about 12 lb type double action triggers here.
I think my M&P9 has smoothed out quite nicely and is a tad lighter than it was. I'm guessing it's at 5.5 right now and I haven't done anything with it but shoot it.
I need a M&P45 but first I want to pick up a M&P9c for concealed carry.
Jay Cunningham
12-02-07, 16:21
Lots of practice makes accurate hits. ;) Honestly, a 5 lb trigger is not a hinderance to combat accuracy. I honestly think that people (not saying you) get way to hung up on having a 2 lb sneeze on it to fire it trigger. Yes, a very light trigger will make extreme pinpoint accuracy easier to accomplish in a static range session shooting bullseye matches at 25 yards. But on a fighting gun, if you cant make hits at 7-15 yrds with a 5 lb trigger, you need more range/class time, not a lighter trigger. :)
Note - I use 5 lb's as a reference, as thats approximately what most Glocks, M&Ps, good 1911's, etc... come with stock, give or take a half lb or so. definitely not talking about 12 lb type double action triggers here.
I have been dry-firing the hell out of my 45 (only 100 actual rounds) and the trigger characteristsics are changing for the better.
That being said - Hawkeye, I don't have a scale but I will bet a paycheck that the break on the M&P45 is significantly more than 5 pounds... probably closer to 8. Mine has lightened up a touch, but the point is that yes, the trigger can effect the shooter if it is too heavy. Not talking about 3 lb. triggers here...
No I agree. Too heavy a trigger can be an issue. I just think its very often used out of context as a crutch, and also applies more to DA and DOA type handguns.
I am beginning to wonder if there is some wide variation on the M&P 45 triggers. Both of mine feel like they are/were about 5.5 outof the box, 6 at the most. My black one, that I have more rounds through, feels about like a even 5. My newer FDE one feels like a 5.5 or so, with a little grit in the take up. I can tell a difference though with the dry fire it has been receiving and with just the first 100 rounds through it.
That said, I do here more and more variations on the 45 triggers. Maybe I've just gotten lucky with mine, which is entirely possible.
I still stand by what I said though. If one cant make decent (combat) hits with a 5 lb Glock/M&P/1911 type trigger, then you need more class time before you need a lighter trigger.
My M&P 45 had a , measured, 10 lb trigger pull out of the box. Even after shooting it, some TLC was necessary.
I have a M&P 9mm that David Bowie did a trigger job on. It beakes at 5 lbs and is very crisp. For a carry trigger it is fine.
Mike
I have a M&P 9mm that David Bowie did a trigger job on.
I read this and the smart ass in me wanted to ask how much a Keith Richards trigger job costs.:D
I would like to measure mine but when dry firing I notice it more than when actually firing.
I will probably end up sending mine to Burwell at some point but it's on par with my Glock triggers but with a very light reset.
The trigger on mine is getting better but it really irks me that a "plastic wunder pistol" would need a trigger job right out of the blocks. It's probably still over seven pounds but manageable. The reset seems to have improved some also or at least I've gotten used to it. It chokes occasionally on my reloads (200 grn FP Ranier) but hasn't stumbled on any factory ammo. I think loading the flat point a bit longer will fix this but I'm almost out of those and just going to go back to 200 grn LSWC's. The mags don't insert cleanly all the time but I have not had that issue when going at speed...just when doing it slow. The mag lip catches on the underside of the mag catch if there is any side force as the mag goes up the well. It has good accuracy. The ergonomics are still a bit odd but I think that may be down to my having gotten a thumb safety model. I have mid-sized hands and the only back strap that is somewhat comfortable is the small. However, if I try to ride the safety, it just doesn't feel right but is less noticeable when moving at speed. It is one sexy looking pistol.
The trigger on mine is getting better but it really irks me that a "plastic wunder pistol" would need a trigger job right out of the blocks.
Let's put it in context. There are people who spend twice as much on a 1911 and still send the pistol off to get a trigger job.
The trigger on mine is getting better but it really irks me that a "plastic wunder pistol" would need a trigger job right out of the blocks.
What's funny is that the opposite argument is used against Glocks all the time by the 1911 guys. The big knock against the "plastic wunder pistol" was that you couldn't do much with the trigger.
Now we're going to knock the S&W because we can tune the trigger...
I think it's pure genius on S&W's part. Now they can capture the Glock market and the 1911 market with one pistol.
Let's put it in context. There are people who spend twice as much on a 1911 and still send the pistol off to get a trigger job.
Most of those 1911 triggers don't need any work; people want a different hammer or all tool steel parts or some other preference oriented reason. Any stock 1911 trigger I've tried has been better than the trigger pull on my M&P was initially. Furthermore and more relevant, every single box stock Glock I've ever fondled has the same trigger pull as every other Glock. Same for HK's and I'm sure a number of other modern pistols. That is my context.
What's funny is that the opposite argument is used against Glocks all the time by the 1911 guys. The big knock against the "plastic wunder pistol" was that you couldn't do much with the trigger.
We all know that the 1911 crowd is a bit "odd"! :D
Contrary to what some may think, I'm not bashing the M&P. Obviously, I thought enough of it to buy one before reams anecdotal and scientific evidence were available.
Most of those 1911 triggers don't need any work; people want a different hammer or all tool steel parts or some other preference oriented reason. Any stock 1911 trigger I've tried has been better than the trigger pull on my M&P was initially. Furthermore and more relevant, every single box stock Glock I've ever fondled has the same trigger pull as every other Glock. Same for HK's and I'm sure a number of other modern pistols. That is my context.
Again, let's put it in context. People want that work, just as you want the work done on the M&P. I don't feel the need for a trigger job on my M&P. It's a preference thing, period.
Glock's trigger pulls are not as consistent as you think. They do vary quite a bit in weight and that is with the same trigger spring/connector set up.
Again, let's put it in context. People want that work,
That's what I said. People elect to get trigger jobs on their 1911's but mostly, they don't need it.
just as you want the work done on the M&P. I don't feel the need for a trigger job on my M&P. It's a preference thing, period.
I never said I wanted trigger work on my M&P. My M&P trigger was not so great to start but has gotten better. I think pistols of modern design, materials and construction methods should not require trigger jobs. Notice I said require. I refuse to send a Glock, M&P, USP or any pistol of that nature out for work. If they don't work and the factory can't make it right, I won't own it.
Glock's trigger pulls are not as consistent as you think. They do vary quite a bit in weight and that is with the same trigger spring/connector set up.
They are typically more consistent than the M&P's have been but my sampling of M&P triggers is not as large as my sampling of Glock triggers.
I shot my box stock M&P45 next to my "tweaked" M&P45 with a lighter and shortened reset trigger.
My groups with the stock pistol were all on a flashcard at 10yds. Which was decent.
When I swapped to the "tweaked" pistol, my groups tightened up by about 1/2.
I immediately arranged to have Burwell do a defensive trigger job on the new one.
Needed? Probably not. Wanted? Most definitely. The shortened reset alone was worth the nominal cost.
I never said I wanted trigger work on my M&P. My M&P trigger was not so great to start but has gotten better. I think pistols of modern design, materials and construction methods should not require trigger jobs. Notice I said require. I refuse to send a Glock, M&P, USP or any pistol of that nature out for work. If they don't work and the factory can't make it right, I won't own it.
And they don't require a trigger job.
Which makes me wonder why you'd say this:
The trigger on mine is getting better but it really irks me that a "plastic wunder pistol" would need a trigger job right out of the blocks.
Makes me thing you believe the M&P needs a trigger job out of the box. It doesn't need it. You may prefer it, but the gun does not need it.
NCPatrolAR
12-03-07, 01:06
The triggers on the MP45s seem to have a large varience in how heavy they are. My personal 45 felt great out of the box and has continued to smooth out. I handled a few FDE 45s recently and all of them had extremely heavy triggers.
It doesn't need it. You may prefer it, but the gun does not need it.
I agree.
Though I will hedge my bets and say there might be that 0.5% that do REALLY need one. Just because of whatever...machine tolerances, some gunk that got in the action, or whatever...:)
I agree.
Though I will hedge my bets and say there might be that 0.5% that do REALLY need one. Just because of whatever...machine tolerances, some gunk that got in the action, or whatever...:)
I will concede the point on the exceptionally poor QCed Friday afternoon guns.
That said, a shorter reset sounds great.
The triggers on the MP45s seem to have a large varience in how heavy they are. My personal 45 felt great out of the box and has continued to smooth out. I handled a few FDE 45s recently and all of them had extremely heavy triggers.
Is there any correlation to these variations and the existence of a safety on the gun?
Lots of practice makes accurate hits. ;) Honestly, a 5 lb trigger is not a hinderance to combat accuracy. I honestly think that people (not saying you) get way to hung up on having a 2 lb sneeze on it to fire it trigger. Yes, a very light trigger will make extreme pinpoint accuracy easier to accomplish in a static range session shooting bullseye matches at 25 yards. But on a fighting gun, if you cant make hits at 7-15 yrds with a 5 lb trigger, you need more range/class time, not a lighter trigger. :)
Note - I use 5 lb's as a reference, as thats approximately what most Glocks, M&Ps, good 1911's, etc... come with stock, give or take a half lb or so. definitely not talking about 12 lb type double action triggers here.
So noted. ;) I just prefer a 4lb trigger or even lighter. I'll take any advantage I can get! Practice and dry fires included! :D
No I agree. Too heavy a trigger can be an issue. I just think its very often used out of context as a crutch, and also applies more to DA and DOA type handguns.
I am beginning to wonder if there is some wide variation on the M&P 45 triggers. Both of mine feel like they are/were about 5.5 outof the box, 6 at the most. My black one, that I have more rounds through, feels about like a even 5. My newer FDE one feels like a 5.5 or so, with a little grit in the take up. I can tell a difference though with the dry fire it has been receiving and with just the first 100 rounds through it.
That said, I do here more and more variations on the 45 triggers. Maybe I've just gotten lucky with mine, which is entirely possible.
I still stand by what I said though. If one cant make decent (combat) hits with a 5 lb Glock/M&P/1911 type trigger, then you need more class time before you need a lighter trigger.
Just to note, mine feels significantly higher than 5lbs... maybe as high as 10! An easy test is to switch to your weak hand as it sometimes seems harder to discern on your strong hand.
I had hand surgery and lost some muscle in my right hand... I can barely pull the trigger with my right hand. My strength will come back but I can pull my stock Glock trigger with my right hand a bit easier. My Kimber? No problems so to speak.
Subjective I guess but for striker fired this .45 seems the heaviest by far. It may "smooth out" but I intend to carefully mod it to at least hit 5lbs.
BTW - my friend shot it very well but he has full use of both hands, he even commented on the heaviness and it needing a job. I can only use left hand no support for the time being and I could barely hit paper with that trigger. True I need practice but this is the heaviest non-DA trigger I've ever felt. With my right hand at full strength I don't see any problems or even as a support but I couldn't help but jerk trying to break the trigger.
Steelshooter
01-03-08, 00:24
Both my M&P .45 triggers have smoothed out nicely. A trigger job would probably be nice but not needed and I don't want the shipping hassle. After 30+ years of 1911's, P220's and Glock .45's none of them allow me to hammer 10 rounds downrange as quickly and as accurately as the M&P .45.
I like that.
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