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Reagans Rascals
12-02-11, 15:27
Will the ATF grant a permit to allow you to manufacture your own DD or Suppressor, NOT POST-SAMPLE MACHINE GUNS. I simply mean fully transferable, suppressors and or DD.

Say you have your own design idea for a suppressor, would the ATF allow you to file paperwork and manufacture it for personal, not commercial use, without holding a Class 2 license FFL/SOT? If not, I guess its pretty much TFB and you're stuck with purchasing one from a Class 2...

I have seen some companies such as Anzio Iron Works, make 20mm bolt action rifles and I'm just wondering if the ATF allows individuals to manufacture items like that and suppressors on their own, if they follow the correct legal guidelines and submit all legal paper work, much like making your own standard non-DD bolt action rifle.

Once again, I mean this for Suppressors, SBR's, SBS's, and Destructive Devices, NOT FOR POST-SAMPLE MACHINE GUNS.

If they do grant this type of action, what are the correct steps in the process?
johnson
12-02-11, 15:30
Not sure about DD but yes on a suppressor. You fill out a Form 1.
Reagans Rascals
12-02-11, 15:42
Not sure about DD but yes on a suppressor. You fill out a Form 1.

Thanks, I appreciate your post. I just downloaded the ATF Form 1 from their site and it spells its all of for me.
scottryan
12-03-11, 08:07
making and manufacturing a firearm are not the same thing and they are legally defined differently.

You are wanting to make a firearm, not manufacture a firearm.
Reagans Rascals
12-04-11, 16:49
making and manufacturing a firearm are not the same thing and they are legally defined differently.

You are wanting to make a firearm, not manufacture a firearm.

you mean making as in personal use, and manufacturing as for commercial sale
Eurodriver
12-04-11, 17:06
Simple.

Just fill out a Form 1, when it comes back approved then you can make the suppressor/dd/SBR with the serial number and information you used on the Form 1.

You cannot do the reverse. ;)

Edit: You cannot sell it also.
DeltaSierra
12-04-11, 17:11
Edit: You cannot sell it also.

Any documentation for that? If you make a transferable item, that has a serial number, and you paid the tax, I fail to see why you couldn't sell it at some point down the road.

If you file a form one on an AR lower, to make it an SBR, you can still sell it later on, so I don't see how a suppressor or DD would be any different.
Eurodriver
12-04-11, 17:13
Any documentation for that? If you make a transferable item, that has a serial number, and you paid the tax, I fail to see why you couldn't sell it at some point down the road.

If you file a form one on an AR lower, to make it an SBR, you can still sell it later on, so I don't see how a suppressor or DD would be any different.

If anyone could make and sell their own firearms, why would we need FFLs and SOTs?

Edit: After looking into § 479.61-479.70 it appears pretty vague as to whether or not you can sell a suppressor you make yourself on a Form 1. The law is pretty clear about non NFA weapons however.

Title 18 US Code Section 922

a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce

I would say that selling even just one firearm you made (NFA or not) constitutes a violation of this.
usmcvet
12-04-11, 17:27
If anyone could make and sell their own firearms, why would we need FFLs and SOTs?

Edit: After looking into § 479.61-479.70 it appears pretty vague as to whether or not you can sell a suppressor you make yourself on a Form 1. The law is pretty clear about non NFA weapons however.

Title 18 US Code Section 922

a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce

I would say that selling even just one firearm you made (NFA or not) constitutes a violation of this.

I am not an expert but you can sell an SBR. I believe the difference is are you selling personal weapons or are you selling weapons and making a profit/living doing it. I can sell my personally owned cars, but I can not be a car dealer w/o a license. I don't know what the threshold is but I know I will never hit it.
A62Rambler
12-04-11, 17:54
It is perfectly legal to sell a firearm or suppressor that you build. The key is whether you are engaging in a business. If you start building and selling them with the intent to engage in business you are violating the law unless you are a licensed manufacturer. I was given this information verbally from the regional director in Atlanta if my memory is correct. I then sent a letter requesting that in writing and have the letter filed away. If it was handy I would post it. If you doubt this which would be a good thing to do since it is your asterisk, then send a letter to the ATF Firearms branch and get your own letter of response like I did and file it away. :D A little time and the cost of postage can save you a future legal problem.

As for a DD. I don't know but I'm pretty sure it's a no go without license. Of course a letter to ATF will get you an answer and perhaps a personal visit. ;)
Reagans Rascals
12-04-11, 18:18
is a destructive device legally allowed to be made with a Form 1?

what is the threshold regarding semi-automatic shotguns? Benelli's and Saiga's are legal however weapons like the Striker are considered a Destructive Device.... whats the threshold as far as whats legal to make?

Is there a specific guideline I can look at to follow?
scottryan
12-04-11, 18:34
is a destructive device legally allowed to be made with a Form 1?




Yes.

A form 1 is for all NFA weapons.
tb-av
12-04-11, 18:52
Here's a nice article from someone that has done it.
http://cncguns.com/projects/22silencer.html
Eurodriver
12-04-11, 19:52
It is perfectly legal to sell a firearm or suppressor that you build. The key is whether you are engaging in a business. If you start building and selling them with the intent to engage in business you are violating the law unless you are a licensed manufacturer.

I am not a fan of such subjective laws like what is written above. Who's to say you are not engaging in business because you've manufactured 3 silencers and sold 1?

"Your intent was to sell the other three..." etc