12.5" Long Distance Shooting Results

[Eurodriver]

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2635/imgp0400t.jpg

After learning so much here, I decided to take everything I'd gathered and put it into practice. This was my first time shooting my 12.5" and I wanted to see what it could do at a distance. I had no concerns that it would perform adequately at shorter ranges.

Today I just happened to run into a few buddies (none of which had ever shot before) that had a perfect place to go shooting. I was down, but I was concerned that without known a distance range, paper targets, and a steady rest I would not be able to zero the rifle and be shooting blindly. I was wrong.

The ACOG was pretty much dead nuts on, which made shooting alot more fun. For zeroing I actually measured out 36 yards by pace count and shot at 12 gauge shotgun shells. I got it dialed in to being able to hit the brass part of the shells (when they were laying down facing away from me), which was as good as I was going to get.

Then we moved over to the lake and started shooting over it. I'd say the furthest we shot was to about 400 but 600 was possible, there were just no targets out that far and we didnt feel like bushwacking to get out there. I was hitting soda cans ALL DAY with this rifle at 300 yards, passed that it got tricky because I had to lift my body up higher off the ground in order to see the target (eliminating my magazine monopod) which made it less stable than at closer ranges. I couldn't believe how accurate it was.

This rifle is extremely accurate. The BDC, considering it was zero'd at 36 yards, is dead on even at 300 yards. Ammo used was 62gr M855. Minute-of-coke can is completely acceptable in my book for what I wanted out of this rifle. I am waiting until I get my cans in, then I will run out there again and setup an 18" steel gong at 600 yards to really see what it can do. I think 600 will be the furthest out this rifle would be able to consistantly hit something like that.

Also, I shot the piss out of this rifle; we fired almost 500 rounds at every rate of fire conceivable and there were no issues. I am curious if getting a stainless barrel hot like this is going to cause me problems in the long run though.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3593/imgp0414nv.jpg

Now, I don't like naming names...but there is another shooter on these boards who likes to shoot out to 500+ yards with his SBR over a pond...and again, I won't say who he is, but if he gets to do this all the time in Alabama with his 10.5" MRP, I'm even more jealous now than I was before...

[ALCOAR]

Great job, its very rewarding and enjoyable to go out for yourself and start to discover the limitations of your rifles rather than relying on the silly internet or word of mouth to tell you.

[BCmJUnKie]

Very cool man!!

Congrats on your new rifle.

I hope to see you really pushing that thing.

250 was the limit on my 11.5"...so far.

I hope to get the range like you and Trident

[Eurodriver]

I bought some Hornady 53gr Super Performance, 75gr BTHP Match, and some Federal GMM 77gr BTHP.

Gonna take it out next week. I'll shoot at 300 for groups on paper and try to hit steel at 600.

[ALCOAR]

If you have never shot the SF 53gr. Vmax, you should really enjoy it....it's a straight up laser beam.

The 55gr. Vmax is far more accurate up to a certain distance, however it doesn't shoot anywhere near as flat as the SF 53gr. vmax does.

It's one of my favorite rounds to shoot out of a shorty.

Notice is the pic below how the SF 53gr. vmax bullet is longer and has a boat tail.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC02205-1.jpg

At any rate, have fun and look forward to hearing your results:)

[a0cake]

Looks like a good time. Coke cans at 300 with an ACOG is impressive shooting. I was never really all that good with an ACOG for whatever reason, but you're definitely making it work.

These BCM SS410 barrels never stop impressing me. Something that I've been particularly impressed with is their ability to shoot such a wide range of ammunition accurately...even notoriously inaccurate M855.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't worry too much about getting the barrel hot. Here's how I'll qualify that statement:

Being an accuracy nut I've moved almost exclusively to SS barrels....and I've never been shy about heating them up. What I've noticed about my BCM SS410 barrel is that groups do in fact open up when the barrel gets extremely hot but POI does not shift. The groups just expand but stay centered. Even when the barrel gets to this point, my groups won't open up past 1.5 MOA...better than many chrome lined barrels when cool, and far better than most chrome lined barrels when hot. In the last few months I've put 5K rounds through my SS410 and have noticed no appreciable degradation in accuracy. It still prints 1/2 to 3/4 MOA 10 shot groups, only opening up beyond that when really really pushed heat wise.

I also put somewhere between 12 - 15K rounds through a MK12 (Douglas SS Barrel). It was always shot suppressed. It was also a full auto lower...and I didn't hesitate to become intimately familiar with operating the gun in that way. Again, no issues with accuracy throughout my time with that gun.

Modern high quality SS barrels have made chrome lined barrels irrelevant for my purposes.

[RetreatHell]

At my TAPS class instructed by Pat McNamara last weekend, during the whole second half of TD3 after lunch, we were able to shoot an incredibly set up steel farm... as in, lots of 10" steel squares setup all over a large area of dirt pasture. It. Was. Awesome.

Don't get many opportunities to shoot at so many different targets like that, set up from around 75 yards closest out to just over 350 yards. Then there was a slightly larger rectangular plate sitting vertically against a a dirt berm 600 yards out.

I was running my BCM 14.5" middy with good ole' XM193. Everyone else had 16" DI guns, except one guy who had an LWRC piston gun. We all had aimpoints, and no magnification.

I was actually surprised at just how damn easy it is to hit 10" plates out to 350 yards.... like, really surprised. Especially considering we were all running aimpoints. I was even having to shoot off a rickety plastic drum. I found that so long as we had good enough stability and good trigger control, it wasn't very hard. I'll point out though that this was on TD3, so we'd already been shooting in that marksmanship-intensive class for 2.5 days. I'll admit that very likely made a difference in our hit percentages.

When being timed during competitions, we'd typically have that ONE plate that we just couldn't hit without firing 4-5 damn rounds. Usually one of the closer plates, too. That's just what stress does, though. Of course when we were just screwing around with no timer or competition, we'd have very little misses. I had 0 misses on one run, and forgot to get video of it. When I did get video of the next run, of course I had several misses, lol! Just how shit goes.

HOWEVER, once you get past that 400 yard mark, I learned shit starts getting tricky. Fundamentals become crucial and there's no room for that little error in your trigger press, because you'll miss. Especially on those squares.

Not one of us was able to hit the 600 yard target. Not even Mac. We had everything against us. Nasty overcast day, so you couldn't see the bullet trace in the spotting scope really. It rained all night, so there was approx 0% dust signature when our rounds impacted the berm. And it was also windy. It was just too damn hard to try and make any corrections, and that 55gr XM193 round got blown WAY off target by that wind.

It was very interesting shooting out that far though. We all learned a LOT! I plan on going back out there for the day sometime with some better ammo, and when it's a nice and dry sunny day. I wanna use the same gun, just with better ammo in better conditions. I know it's doable, without a doubt.

I'll also be taking my suppressed BCM Mk12 with me, and stay out after hours there with my PVS-27 to play around in the dark:D

[David Thomas]

At my TAPS class instructed by Pat McNamara last weekend, during the whole second half of TD3 after lunch, we were able to shoot an incredibly set up steel farm... as in, lots of 10" steel squares setup all over a large area of dirt pasture. It. Was. Awesome.

Don't get many opportunities to shoot at so many different targets like that, set up from around 75 yards closest out to just over 350 yards. Then there was a slightly larger rectangular plate sitting vertically against a a dirt berm 600 yards out.

I was running my BCM 14.5" middy with good ole' XM193. Everyone else had 16" DI guns, except one guy who had an LWRC piston gun. We all had aimpoints, and no magnification.

I was actually surprised at just how damn easy it is to hit 10" plates out to 350 yards.... like, really surprised. Especially considering we were all running aimpoints. I was even having to shoot off a rickety plastic drum. I found that so long as we had good enough stability and good trigger control, it wasn't very hard. I'll point out though that this was on TD3, so we'd already been shooting in that marksmanship-intensive class for 2.5 days. I'll admit that very likely made a difference in our hit percentages.

When being timed during competitions, we'd typically have that ONE plate that we just couldn't hit without firing 4-5 damn rounds. Usually one of the closer plates, too. That's just what stress does, though. Of course when we were just screwing around with no timer or competition, we'd have very little misses. I had 0 misses on one run, and forgot to get video of it. When I did get video of the next run, of course I had several misses, lol! Just how shit goes.

HOWEVER, once you get past that 400 yard mark, I learned shit starts getting tricky. Fundamentals become crucial and there's no room for that little error in your trigger press, because you'll miss. Especially on those squares.

Not one of us was able to hit the 600 yard target. Not even Mac. We had everything against us. Nasty overcast day, so you couldn't see the bullet trace in the spotting scope really. It rained all night, so there was approx 0% dust signature when our rounds impacted the berm. And it was also windy. It was just too damn hard to try and make any corrections, and that 55gr XM193 round got blown WAY off target by that wind.

It was very interesting shooting out that far though. We all learned a LOT! I plan on going back out there for the day sometime with some better ammo, and when it's a nice and dry sunny day. I wanna use the same gun, just with better ammo in better conditions. I know it's doable, without a doubt.

I'll also be taking my suppressed BCM Mk12 with me, and stay out after hours there with my PVS-27 to play around in the dark:D


Talking about this steel?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/DavidThomas/TMAC088.jpg

I must admit you did make it look pretty easy. Also, to be fair Mac was ringing the 600 yard plate with a borrowed JP 308.


Eurodriver, looking forward to your report after you give 600 yards a try.

[RetreatHell]

Talking about this steel?

I must admit you did make it look pretty easy. Also, to be fair Mac was ringing the 600 yard plate with a borrowed JP 308.



Thanks a lot for the ego stroke, but as I recall you beat everyone on that last class competition. Damn fine job, brother! I just so happened to shoot my worst on that last one, lol!:p

Yeah, Mac and several others hit with the Steve's JP .308. I'm just talking about our 5.56 guns. Our little 55gr training ammo just got pushed all over the damn place by that wind, but the .308 flew straight through it! Very interesting experience for sure. That JP Battle Rifle was a pretty sweet gun, but I used the wrong ****ing BDC line on that stupid ACOG and couldn't figure out why I couldn't hit at 600 until afterwards when Steve showed me. I was the using 400 yard hash-mark instead of 600, doh!!

[Pappabear]

I too have been impressed with ACOG at distance. That optic is pretty hard to beat for a battle optic.

[Pappabear]

If you have never shot the SF 53gr. Vmax, you should really enjoy it....it's a straight up laser beam.

The 55gr. Vmax is far more accurate up to a certain distance, however it doesn't shoot anywhere near as flat as the SF 53gr. vmax does.

It's one of my favorite rounds to shoot out of a shorty.

Notice is the pic below how the SF 53gr. vmax bullet is longer and has a boat tail.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC02205-1.jpg

At any rate, have fun and look forward to hearing your results:)

Trident, I'm going to have to buy a box of those 53grain vmax bullets and give them a run.

[JeepDriver]

I've been wondering what my SBR's are capable of lately, so I'm headed to a class next month called Precision Carbine with Imprecise Components through Central Virginia Tactical. I'm taking my 11.5" BHF BCM SBR wearing a TA33G-H.

Should be an interesting learning experience. They are only pushing to 300 yards, but that should be a challenge for me and the gun.

[Eurodriver]

I've been wondering what my SBR's are capable of lately, so I'm headed to a class next month called Precision Carbine with Imprecise Components through Central Virginia Tactical. I'm taking my 11.5" BHF BCM SBR wearing a TA33G-H.

Should be an interesting learning experience. They are only pushing to 300 yards, but that should be a challenge for me and the gun.

300 yards even with a 10.5" and an aimpoint isn't very difficult.

I don't say that to sound arrogant, but rather to reassure you. You will have no problems.

[RetreatHell]

300 yards even with a 10.5" and an aimpoint isn't very difficult.

I don't say that to sound arrogant, but rather to reassure you. You will have no problems.

Yup. Agreed.

[Eurodriver]

Looks like a good time. Coke cans at 300 with an ACOG is impressive shooting. I was never really all that good with an ACOG for whatever reason, but you're definitely making it work.

Modern high quality SS barrels have made chrome lined barrels irrelevant for my purposes.

Coke cans at 300 is easy and this is with PMC X-tac M855. I think that ammo is alot more accurate than the Federal/Lake City m855 because I have shot 2 MOA groups on paper at 300 yards with it out of my 14.5" Chrome Lined BCM Middy and an ACOG.

I agree with your assessment of SS barrels. I don't think I will go back except for 10.5" rifles with unmagnified optics.



Not one of us was able to hit the 600 yard target. Not even Mac. We had everything against us. Nasty overcast day, so you couldn't see the bullet trace in the spotting scope really. It rained all night, so there was approx 0% dust signature when our rounds impacted the berm. And it was also windy. It was just too damn hard to try and make any corrections, and that 55gr XM193 round got blown WAY off target by that wind.


Thats the worst. You have absolutely no idea where your impacts are. I can't stand shooting in conditions like that, especially if you haven't done so at those distances before and really have no idea where your rounds are going.


Thanks a lot for the ego stroke, but as I recall you beat everyone on that last class competition. Damn fine job, brother! I just so happened to shoot my worst on that last one, lol!:p


I've seen your youtube videos, you're no joke either!


I too have been impressed with ACOG at distance. That optic is pretty hard to beat for a battle optic.

I love them. I do not like the lack of eye relief but I own three of them for a reason...I've never seen a more simple, rugged 4x optic.

[6933]

SBR's are much more accurate out to longer distances than most people would think. 6933 has no issues with 300yds. I would like to shoot a 10.3 and an 11.5 side by side to compare.

I know IG, myself, GotM4, and markm(IIRC) all shoot SBR's at distance fairly regularly.

There is just something about a properly set up SBR. The only small issue I have is when the PEQ-15 is up front, it slightly throws off the balance; and IMHO the 6933 is one of Colt's best weapons with almost perfect balance.

Being able to hit at distance is one reason why if I could only take 1 rifle, it would be the 6933 and not the 6920.

Retreat- Hopefully we'll eventually end up in a class together. Carbine 2(EAG) in St. Augustine in Feb.? Can't wait. A.M.I.S. with SouthNarc in Jan and Carbine 2 in Feb. Going to be a good 2 months.

[RetreatHell]

I think that ammo is alot more accurate than the Federal/Lake City m855 because I have shot 2 MOA groups on paper at 300 yards with it out of my 14.5" Chrome Lined BCM Middy and an ACOG.


Damn. Now THAT certainly IS very impressive!

Forgot to mention that Mac's 16" Larue stainless steel barreled upper he got a few years ago has something like 18,000 rounds on it and still holds it's MOA (whatever he said it was, can't remember). He said he's blown away that a stainless bbl has held up after that many rounds. Pretty impressive, and demonstrates what buying quality can do for you.

Shitty cell pic of it:
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/TRICON%20CC2%20Class%202011/IMG_0694.jpg



ETA: Does anyone know if stainless SBR barrels have a much shorter lifespan than longer ones? I have no clue and am curious. This thread is making me consider getting a SS SBR next:D

[Eurodriver]

ETA: Does anyone know if stainless SBR barrels have a much shorter lifespan than longer ones? I have no clue and am curious. This thread is making me consider getting a SS SBR next:D

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_130/158390_My_18_month__15K_rounds_SS_barrel_range_report_.html

Obviously it doesn't make sense to run a SS barrel on a run and gun weapon, but if you are looking for max precision out of an SBR I would go no other way.

...YMMV of course. With barely 500 rounds through my one and only SS SBR, I am in no way an expert. ;)

But, it should also be mentioned that Markm and pappabear shoot their chrome lined SBRs out to serious distances and do well enough to brag about it :laugh:

I really can't wait to actually zero this optic and shoot on paper at 500 yards. I used the 36yard BZO and it gave me pretty good POA/POI using the BDC, but its still not perfectly dialed in.

[Iraqgunz]

I made hits on steel yesterday at 200, 300, 400 and 500M with my 11.5" and 55gr. ammo!


SBR's are much more accurate out to longer distances than most people would think. 6933 has no issues with 300yds. I would like to shoot a 10.3 and an 11.5 side by side to compare.

I know IG, myself, GotM4, and markm(IIRC) all shoot SBR's at distance fairly regularly.

There is just something about a properly set up SBR. The only small issue I have is when the PEQ-15 is up front, it slightly throws off the balance; and IMHO the 6933 is one of Colt's best weapons with almost perfect balance.

Being able to hit at distance is one reason why if I could only take 1 rifle, it would be the 6933 and not the 6920.

Retreat- Hopefully we'll eventually end up in a class together. Carbine 2(EAG) in St. Augustine in Feb.? Can't wait. A.M.I.S. with SouthNarc in Jan and Carbine 2 in Feb. Going to be a good 2 months.

[6933]

Bastard! I changed diapers, wiped snot, and was harassed by the wife all day for buying a G19.

[markm]

Trident, I'm going to have to buy a box of those 53grain vmax bullets and give them a run.

Get the SF vmax with the boat tail.

[Eurodriver]

I'm on my way to pick up my suppressors. On the way home I'm going to stop by my shooting hole and see what kind of work I can do with this 12.5" again.

I'll be using M193 this time.

[markm]

We screwed up. We were getting good bullet glint at one point in the day. We should have moved the .223s to the 750 yard steel to try to see some transonic behavior.