Any reason not to buy a Leupold Mark 4?

[prodgi]

I wanting to cut my teeth on some rifle matches next year and am in process of shopping for an optic. Originally I was looking at the Vortex Viper PST. I am a little uneasy with that option only because they seem to be a newer company and no one local sells them so if I order one on-line I'd be seeing it for the first time when brown shows up. The Viper is right at $750, with in my budgeted amount of what I'm willing to spend but I'm more comfortable giving Leupold $1200 for a Mark 4 and know that I'm buying something from a reputable company. (not trash talking Vortex, their reviews have all been great!)

I'm looking at the Mark 4 LR/T TMR 6.5-20 nonilluminated option. So any reason not to buy it?

[Apricotshot]

What type of rifle matches? What distances are you talking?

[Belmont31R]

$1200 would buy you a nice night force or if you wanted to spring a little more money into it SB's and Swaro's can be had for 1600 used.




I don't think the Leupold Mark 4's are worth the money. They are basically taking hunting scopes, adding turrets, a different reticle, and charge twice as much. The firedot series does seem to be a good value, though. I just don't see $1k or more of value into a regular 3.5-10x40 type Leupold. I had one at one point and wasn't impressed with it.

[prodgi]

basically the target is a IDPA style with similar scoring, ranges are from 100-600yds from various positions.

[Nightvisionary]

Leupold has been the benchmark in the optics arena for many years. They don't make the best scopes available and they definitely are not innovation leaders as they once were. However the MK 4 series is an excellent product and sits atop most of the US military's precision rifles. They have great customer service and the scopes are made in the USA so I would go for it.

I own two MK 4's and they are excellent scopes.

If you look on the various equipment exchanges you should be able to find some excellent used Leupolds that will fit your needs. That will save you some money and they are still covered by a lifetime warranty. Just verify the serial number by calling Leupold first as there are more than a few cheap copies floating around.

[cop1211]

Check brianenos.com tons of 3 gun info there.

[nimdabew]

I just bought a Mk4 1.5-5x20 and intend to use it for the same type of matches from a 5.56 gun. I think you are going to have too much magnification if you go the route you are thinking about. For tactical stuff, I have always been under the guideline of 1x for each 100 yards. For precision bolt guns, 2x for each 100 yards against steel.

[TehLlama]

$1200 would buy you a nice night force or if you wanted to spring a little more money into it SB's and Swaro's can be had for 1600 used.


That saved me some typing, as those are my thoughts exactly.

Even at the bargain I picked up my MR/T 3-9x ITMR at, the NF NXS for another $500 is still a superior optic.

I did finally buy an NXS 3.5-15x50mm and it blows the 3.5-10x M1 I was looking at out of the water, for hardly much less money. MIL/MIL is orders of magnitude better, and they're the same weight and form factor for way more magnification range.

Leupold Mk4's are great optics, and if they were a little cheaper I think they'd be great sellers, but I think Leupold has missed on a couple features that could be huge.

[VIP3R 237]

I wanting to cut my teeth on some rifle matches next year and am in process of shopping for an optic. Originally I was looking at the Vortex Viper PST. I am a little uneasy with that option only because they seem to be a newer company and no one local sells them so if I order one on-line I'd be seeing it for the first time when brown shows up. The Viper is right at $750, with in my budgeted amount of what I'm willing to spend but I'm more comfortable giving Leupold $1200 for a Mark 4 and know that I'm buying something from a reputable company. (not trash talking Vortex, their reviews have all been great!)

I'm looking at the Mark 4 LR/T TMR 6.5-20 nonilluminated option. So any reason not to buy it?

Honestly id just got with the vortex unless you want spend for a nf or sw. I own a mark4 4.5-14 and also a viper 4-16 and to me the vortex seems like the better scope, it very bright and the clarity is superior even out to the edges. I never cared for leupolds eyepiece design, I prefer the european style focus much more. Also with the vortex you get a zero stop on your elevation turret. I like the vortex so much I just ordered a viper hs 1-4. Leupold is a good company and they make solid products but you pay alot for that gold ring (well black on the mark4)
ymmv

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

Well I own two MK4s, I have no complaints. Never had any issues with them. Leupold has always been super to deal with when I wanted to have my rectical switched or a custom turret built.

Only thing I wish was diffrent on the scopes is the size of the turrets. I wish they were a little bigger. The reason I went Leupold in the first place it the Mil pricing and the made in America stamp.

[Apricotshot]

Like somone else said, 20x is way too much magnification for what you want. The 1.5-5x or 3-9x would serve you better. Leupold makes a good scope. I've used them for years and they have always held zero. Other scopes to look for would be US Optics. Heavy, but robust.

[a0cake]

I won't buy any optic where the reticle doesn't match the adjustments. If it's got a MIL reticle with MOA adjustments I stay away.

Leupold does offer .1 milliradian adjustment option for the MK 4 ER/T's. I believe their nomenclature for this option is M5 turrets. They also have a locking feature.

The thing is you're well into Nightforce price territory when you add that feature.

If I were you, I would strongly consider the merits of having your adjustments match your reticle, then do the homework to see what it will cost to get a Leupold configured similarly. Then, take a look at what NF offers and see how much cheaper the Leupold really is, if at all.

I'm not saying don't get the Leupold. I'm just saying do some legwork and see.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

I won't buy any optic where the reticle doesn't match the adjustments. If it's got a MIL reticle with MOA adjustments I stay away.

Leupold does offer .1 milliradian adjustment option for the MK 4 ER/T's. I believe their nomenclature for this option is M5 turrets. They also have a locking feature.

The thing is you're well into Nightforce price territory when you add that feature.

If I were you, I would strongly consider the merits of having your adjustments match your reticle, then do the homework to see what it will cost to get a Leupold configured similarly. Then, take a look at what NF offers and see how much cheaper the Leupold really is, if at all.

I'm not saying don't get the Leupold. I'm just saying do some legwork and see.

I have to second that I hate when the adjustments and the rectical are on diffrent pages. I have the M5 of which you speek it mil/mil FFP the ERT model.

[Failure2Stop]

If you're shooting 3-gun type competitions or application, a good 1-4 or 1-6 is perfect. The 6X will give you a little improvement in target ID and reticle placement, but they come at a weight and $$ penatly.
Right now, other than a few 1-4x's, the only 1-6x I would drop the coin on is the Swarovski Z6i BRT for 3-gun applicaiton.
I tried a PR 1-8x, which was a great optic with tons of potential, but in the end I didn't shoot it any better than my significantly lighter and shorter 1-4x.
For GP use (which 3-gun type rifle stages mimic pretty well, even if only during daylight) I would recommend an optic with a low power of not more than 1.5x, but preferably 1x, as short as possible, with a usable and widely applicable reticle.

ETA-
Unless you are mounting an offset MRD, in which case there are some other things to ponder.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

Just wait for the MK6 to come out

[jwfuhrman]

I'm a HUGE fan of the Burris XTR 1-4. My shooting buddy and I got them at the same time when the Gen2 reticle came out. He came in 4th Open at the NRA's inagural National Defense Rifle match at Camp Perry and 1st Am at the Brownells/AFRCOM Pro/Am using the Burris XTr on top of a 16in BCM BFH upper

I came in 15th Am at Pro/Am, didn't shoot the NRA match.

[prodgi]

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the view of too much magnification. Sure 20x is a lot but why not have it just in case you need it? Nothing is making you use it all the time. Granted the reticle is calibrated at the highest power but my thought was it would be nice to have just in case you need it, nothing it making you leave it at 20x.

One thing I did find out, the 4.5-14x has 100 moa of adjustment whereas the 6.5-20x has 70moa. Not that big of a deal, 70 ought to be more than enough but 100 would allow for standard rings and could save me a little on a mount over the LaRue 10moa base. A moot point because I'll probably end up with a LaRue mount anyway.

So the general consensus is that the 6.5-20x is not the best choice and I ought to go with less magnification. Also the Mark 4 is OK, not great, but should work well for a newbie. Is that correct?

[a0cake]

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the view of too much magnification. Sure 20x is a lot but why not have it just in case you need it? Nothing is making you use it all the time. Granted the reticle is calibrated at the highest power but my thought was it would be nice to have just in case you need it, nothing it making you leave it at 20x.

One thing I did find out, the 4.5-14x has 100 moa of adjustment whereas the 6.5-20x has 70moa. Not that big of a deal, 70 ought to be more than enough but 100 would allow for standard rings and could save me a little on a mount over the LaRue 10moa base. A moot point because I'll probably end up with a LaRue mount anyway.

So the general consensus is that the 6.5-20x is not the best choice and I ought to go with less magnification. Also the Mark 4 is OK, not great, but should work well for a newbie. Is that correct?



I just skimmed the thread again but did you ever specify what kind of rifle this optic is destined for? I did see you mention that it's for competitions where the targets range between 100 and 600 yards.

I agree with others who have said that for general purpose shooting, you don't need a whole lot of magnification. 1X or 1.5X on the low end to whatever your wallet can afford on the high end is ideal (1-4, 1-6, 1-8 etc). But if this optic is for a dedicated type of competition where all shots occur past 100 yards as you indicated, you can afford to bump up the magnification.

For that application, dollar for dollar you'll have a hard time beating a 4-16X Vortex Viper PST. I would get the one that has the .1 MIL adjustments and is FFP. Here's a link:

http://swfa.com/Vortex-4-16x50-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44561.aspx

The same scope is also offered with MOA adjustments and SFP, if for some reason that attracts you.

4X is low enough where you have fast target acquisition for the 100 yard shots, and 16x is more than enough for 600 yards. For human sized targets, 1X magnification for ever 100 yards is a good standard. More magnification obviously doesn't hurt, if you don't mind the additional weight and size.

With one of the best warranties in the industry, and at less than $900, it's hard to find fault with this optic.

P.S. It's doubtful that you'll need a 10MOA base for a 5.56 platform. More specifics will help.

[prodgi]

Yes, it's for a 20" 5.56 AR.
I did originally look at the Viper PST,it's just that no one in my area stocks them. For me to look at one I'd have to place and order. I'm not willing to do that and "chance" it. I've read nothing but great things about them. But there are without a doubt more Mark 4's out than PSTs. They too seem to have a good reputation and warranty.
I don't want to spend more than I need to but I also don't want to make a compromise over a little bit of money. having said that the Mark 4 is on the high side of what I'd be willing to spend. This is just for fun but I want to make an informed decision. S&B and Nightforce are a little out of the price range for this use.

This mid range shooting stuff is a new gig for me so I appreciate the help.
Here is a pic of the gun, the scope is on loan till I get my own.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k45/PRODGI/IMG_2561.jpg

LMT lower, Criterion 20" NM barrel, Troy Mrf rail. Should be good enough to learn with I figure.

[bp7178]

I tried a PR 1-8x, which was a great optic with tons of potential, but in the end I didn't shoot it any better than my significantly lighter and shorter 1-4x.

That's gold right there.

[prodgi]

Just read this on Leupolds website.

http://www.leupold.com/tactical/resources/product-service/

"Warranties on Leupold® Mark 4®, Mark 2®, Mark AR™, and Tactical optical products vary depending on use and other factors. For more information regarding the warranties on these products, contact Leupold at 1-800-LEUPOLD or (503) 526-1400."

Night and day of Vortex.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/content/vip_warranty

"Our warranty is about you, not us. It's about taking care of you after the sale.
The VIP stands for a Very Important Promise to you, our customers. We will repair or replace your Vortex product for any reason at NO CHARGE TO YOU. It doesn't matter how it happened, whose fault it was, or where you purchased it. You can count on the VIP Warranty for all riflescopes, binoculars, spotting scopes and monoculars.
Unlimited Lifetime Warranty
Fully transferable
No warranty card to fill out
No receipt needed to hang on to
If you ever have a problem, no matter the cause, we promise to take care of you."

You guys are making me rethink this Mark 4 thing.

I guess I've felt up to this point that Vortex would be a lesser scope and the Mark 4 would be a step up, is that not the case?
I hate to spend more on something and not know if/how it would be warrantied.

[Cameron]

I've had two Leupold MK4 scopes, a 1.5-5 (on my 3-gun rifle) and a 4.5-14x50 on my bolt action and 18" SPR. I have been very happy with the performance of the scopes they have worked great, and I think they represent a good value.

Cameron

[glockshooter]

I have used both brands. I went from a 1.5-5 Leupold to a Trijicon TR24 to a Vortex PST 1-4. The Vortex has been a great scope. So much so that I just bought a Vortex HS1-4. I am also issued a Leupold M4 4.5-14 IL on a Rem 700. It is a very nice scope and it has served me well, but I would have no problem replacing it with a Vortex scope.

Matt

[prodgi]

I called Leupold today about their warranty. Basically the Mark 4s are covered the same as their gold ring scopes unless they are in combat.