View Full Version : DMR/Recce Rifle Optics...
I have been looking for a good "Do All" scope that is suitable for close range, but can still provide accurate fire at a distance. It needs more magnification than 4x for target identification.
I want to keep it $1500 or below.
My ideal set up would be-
1-8x.
First focal plane, illuminated, range finding reticle {this reticle (http://nordenperformance.com/crs_specs.html) is perfect}.
1/2 or 1/4 moa knobs (doesn't really matter to me though)
Sufficient eye relief.
And of course good quality glass and durability is a must! :smile:
So I've narrowed it down to a few I like-
The US Optics 1.5-6x28 SN-4
Leupold Mk4 mr/t 1.5-5x20 Ill.
Norden Performance/GRSC Combat Rifle Scope (CRS)
Leupold Mk4 mr/t 2.5-8x36 (I'd just figure out to use the mil dots as hold over points though)
And the Trijicon TA31H, just because I like the reticle.
Please, feel free to recommend anything else you think would fit my specifications; but also choose what you think is best of the above as well.
Ive got two leupold 1.5-5 mk 4s and I don't like that you can't take them down to 1x and the 5 x just did not seem it had enough mag to go to the distances that I wanted to shoot.
I am looking at the 1-6 GRSC as well, and waiting on some more reviews on that scope. I have seen that Leupold is coming out with a MK 6 1-6 scope for the new year and it sounds interesting but has yet to be seen.
The 1-8's look promising, but they are still not really out yet except for the Leupold CQBSS and until it gets some competition from PR and SB it will remain out of touch of my wallet.
not on your list but I am looking for a Nightforce 2.5-10 for the DMR style. not a 1x but I have a different idea of what a DMR's role is...
a Recce is all about a 1-4...
I have the Leupold MK4 1.5-5 illuminated SPR reticle on my Recce and I really like it.
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6150/5980420898_a1e2fc37f8_b.jpg
I am just as fast with it as a red dot at close ranges, and I have made first round hits on a 20" gong at 800yds from a 16" barrel. I would consider the Night Force 1-4 as an alternative.
Anything more than the 1.5 magnification does make shooting at closer ranges challenging for me.
Cameron
hey thanks for your posts, especially camerons; how did you know I loved pics?!:D
Why is leupold beating the USO in the poll though? I though for sure it would be the other way around...
Also are the lower power nightforce scopes ffp? 'Cause I thought they weren't?
Just bought a Leupold Mk 4 1.5-5 but haven't shot it yet. I envision the rifle to be a 600 yard rifle and in rifle with the 16" barrel.
Singlestack Wonder
12-05-11, 17:17
not on your list but I am looking for a Nightforce 2.5-10 for the DMR style. not a 1x but I have a different idea of what a DMR's role is...
a Recce is all about a 1-4...
+1 on the Nightforce 2.5-10.
Since you stated Reece rifle in your post, you are going to be hard pressed to find a scope over a 1x-5 that will keep it within what a Recce is built for.
It's all about the 1x-4.
So with what options you listed the Leupold MK4 1.5x-5 is the ticket you should punch.
KevinC
I have read that for 2012 Leupold has the new Mk 6 1-6X. You may want to wait and take a look at this.
I am a firm believer in the ACOG as a fantastic combat optic because of the durability. They are slower up close. I chose the 1.5-5 Mk4 in your poll because they are so versatile.
For recce optics i'm wondering why S&B or Swaro aren't on the list.
Isn't the actual recce/recon used with a 2.5-10x Nightforce?
I had a 1.5-5x Mark 4 with the CMR2 reticle and I hated it. Eye box was shitty at best, illumination poor, and the scope felt like it was over priced.
It really turned me off to Leupold stuff.
For recce optics i'm wondering why S&B or Swaro aren't on the list.
Isn't the actual recce/recon used with a 2.5-10x Nightforce?
I said I wanted first focal plane and a price tag of $1,500 or under?
For recce optics i'm wondering why S&B or Swaro aren't on the list.
Isn't the actual recce/recon used with a 2.5-10x Nightforce?
I had a 1.5-5x Mark 4 with the CMR2 reticle and I hated it. Eye box was shitty at best, illumination poor, and the scope felt like it was over priced.
It really turned me off to Leupold stuff.
You are correct sir, both the x32 and x24 are in current use:)
http://i53.tinypic.com/2dbj72e.jpg
I said I wanted first focal plane and a price tag of $1,500 or under?
The Leupold 1.5-5x is second focal plane.
FFP optics in the 1-4 range really aren't very useable under 4x as far as ranging goes. Even holdovers would be difficult on 1x, the reticles are very small at that magnification.
You are correct sir, both the x32 and x24 are in current use:)
http://i53.tinypic.com/2dbj72e.jpg
The 2.5-10x24 is an amazing little scope, superb weight and size with a very useful range. Personally I don't see the appeal of the 1.5-X scopes, as for me 1.5 is still very very slow compared to a reflex, in the case of the 2.5-10x24 you are getting a similar size package and getting double the top end at 10x. Selfishly I want to tell you to get the 1-6 since I'm actually very curious about that scope myself, but can't bring myself to try it. I'm not sure how useful the BDC would be for me since I'm mainly shooting 77g @ ~2600 FPS as opposed to the 14.5" m855 that the 1-6 is calibrated for. The USO 1.8-10 is nice but very heavy and imho too much money when you get one with illumination and I don't really see the need for FFP in a 10X scope when you can pick up a used 2.5-10x24 for around $1000.
ETA: OP for $1500 you are not going to find any 1-8 at all, so I would probably take that dream off your list, also why is FFP a requirement when one of the optics you are considering is a fixed 4 power? Do you envision scenarios where you will actually be ranging at for instance 2.5 power? Even if you needed to, it would be a very straightforward affair to do this with a scope where the rangefinder was accurate at 10x. I would also recommend against employing mil dots primarily as a makeshift BDC. They can be extremely useful holdover points but as a BDC you will likely be sorely disappointed.
Indeed sir, the nxsc 2.5-10x24 is quite the amazing little optic:)
I really use mine, and won't ever be parting ways with it.
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC01966-2.jpg
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC01478-1.jpg
I know 1-8 is completely out of the question but that is just so you know what i would really want it, even though i know it'll be different because of the lower price.
I suppose I should be rethinking how much i need ffp, if second plane would indeed be better then help me decide and point me in the right direction!
oh yeah, thank you trident for all your input and pics, i appreciate and respect your information and your posts on Snipers' hide. I love your youtube vids to!
With something like a 2.5-10x, I could see wanting a FFP. For a 1-4x, ehhh...it doesn't make a lot of sense, at least to me.
Swaro has a 1.7-10x42 that looks good, but with the illuminated reticle and ballistic turret is upwards of $2.8k.
I don't see a BDC reticle being very useful outside of the military where everyone has the same rifle and ammunition. You can play with the zero and get ACOGs close, but it won't be as accurate as chronographing your round and dialing for drop.
Thanks for the kind words brother, I would have weighed in more but didn't have any real experience with the options you listed in your op.
I'm obviously biased towards NF's offerings, however they have treated me extremely well, and up to this point I have not personally needed anything else besides what they offered.
You can always go with a 2/3-9/10x type optic and then run a secondary optic like a T-1 in a 45 degree mount to give you the 1x type capabilities. I really like Larue's LT724 mount in conjunct with a T-1 for this type configuration.
My recommendation would be to go with a NXSc 2.5-10x?(x24s are really hard to come by now that they are extinct, however the x32s are readily available). Then play around with it a little bit and if you find yourself wanting or needing a 1x capability, pick up a nice 45 degree offset mount and a T-1.
You certainly can get a whole lot of bang for your buck with a budget of $1500.
eta...
NXSc 2.5-10x24 with a LT724/T-1 secondary
http://i51.tinypic.com/3467slw.jpg
Littlelebowski
12-06-11, 20:29
Why is leupold beating the USO in the poll though? I though for sure it would be the other way around...
Because folks aren't aware of the new dual reticles out in USO's scopes. Kyle Defoor is wringing out one now and at the class I just attended was extremely impressed. Dude was rocking it at short and long anges.
DeltaSierra
12-06-11, 20:38
Because folks aren't aware of the new dual reticles out in USO's scopes.
Do tell...
I just read this: http://www.kyledefoor.com/2011/11/us-optics-sn-4s.html very cool review of the U.S. Optics SN-4S!
A real SEAL with a real Recce? Kyle Defoor at the recent Defoor Proformance Shooting class with the US Optic SN-4s
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Defoor%20Proformance%20Shooting%2019Nov%202011/DSC_0007.jpg
http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Defoor%20Proformance%20Shooting%2019Nov%202011/DSC_0017.jpg
Cameron
Littlelebowski
12-06-11, 21:00
One thing that will boggle Kyle's mind is talking about stuff like the difference between Recce and SPR. He calls them "sniper M4s" and relates that's what they did in his unit.
Not hating on you Cameron; just clarifying. I always enjoy your posts.
DeltaSierra
12-06-11, 21:02
I just read this: http://www.kyledefoor.com/2011/11/us-optics-sn-4s.html very cool review of the U.S. Optics SN-4S!
Thanks for the link.
I just checked USO's site, and I couldn't find that reticle option anywhere on the site... Has it been officially released yet, or what?
One thing that will boggle Kyle's mind is talking about stuff like the difference between Recce and SPR. He calls them "sniper M4s" and relates that's what they did in his unit.
Not hating on you Cameron; just clarifying. I always enjoy your posts.
I'm in total agreement Littlelebowski that's why I put the "?"
I've read the post were Kyle talks about the "sniper M4" and says the 16" can do everything the 18" can. The nomenclature and semantics are not important to me, it's the capability I'm interested in.
Cameron
I just read this: http://www.kyledefoor.com/2011/11/us-optics-sn-4s.html very cool review of the U.S. Optics SN-4S!
Sounds like a great optic from his blog. Thanks for posting.
My recommendation would be to go with a NXSc 2.5-10x?(x24s are really hard to come by now that they are extinct, however the x32s are readily available). Then play around with it a little bit and if you find yourself wanting or needing a 1x capability, pick up a nice 45 degree offset mount and a T-1.
You certainly can get a whole lot of bang for your buck with a budget of $1500.
eta...
NXSc 2.5-10x24 with a LT724/T-1 secondary
http://i51.tinypic.com/3467slw.jpg
I'm still worried about ranging targets though, I think 10x might be a bit much to range everything at, although I guess the only target's I'd need to range are 400+ yards away... What reticle would you recommend?
I really like the compact mil dot w/ the hollow mil dots in the x24 that I own.
On my x32, I have the LV reticle which is one of the newer Velocity reticles. Its the best reticle Ive ever used.
would you mind posting some pics trident? ya know how we all love some gun/optic porn! ;)
I really suck at taking pictures through the optic pal, I'd hate to have you base your opinion on some crappy pics I posted in regards to the glass or the reticles.
ICANHITHIMMAN
12-07-11, 15:01
Horus vision Hawk cause its faster than turrets.
Thanks for the link.
I just checked USO's site, and I couldn't find that reticle option anywhere on the site... Has it been officially released yet, or what?
They are building them now, but with some waiting involved - as is normal for a new product. A few are already out it appears. Custom order from USO and they are listed at SWFA.
Considerable discussion here:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2784548
I picked up a Leupold VR-X 1.25x4x20 and will be putting it on new BCM Recce once my upper comes in from Bravo.
I picked up a Leupold VR-X 1.25x4x20 and willing be putting it on new BCM Recce once my upper comes in from Bravo.
Your going to really like that glass. That is a perfect set-up for a Reece style rifle.
KevinC
I am a big fan of the Squad Designated Marksmen concept. That said, one must keep in mind what the SDM is. He is just another Joe in the squad who happens to be the best shot and is not already working as a team leader or squad leader. He is not a sniper, has not been to a 6 week sniper school, and does not live in a world of dope and mil dots. He must also accompany the squad during normal operations.
I think in most cases you would be better served by an ACOG - preferably with a top mounted RDS for CQC. Uncle Sugar has issued mostly some flavor of TA31, most of them have no RDS but some do have Dr Optics or JPoints. If you have a choice, you would be better served by a TA11 or TA33 with an RMR.
The M4C has a lot more enthusiasts who might prefer something else but for general service use among the general shooting population I think the ACOG is the way to go.
I am a big fan of the Squad Designated Marksmen concept. That said, one must keep in mind what the SDM is. He is just another Joe in the squad who happens to be the best shot and is not already working as a team leader or squad leader. He is not a sniper, has not been to a 6 week sniper school, and does not live in a world of dope and mil dots. He must also accompany the squad during normal operations.
I think in most cases you would be better served by an ACOG - preferably with a top mounted RDS for CQC. Uncle Sugar has issued mostly some flavor of TA31, most of them have no RDS but some do have Dr Optics or JPoints. If you have a choice, you would be better served by a TA11 or TA33 with an RMR.
The M4C has a lot more enthusiasts who might prefer something else but for general service use among the general shooting population I think the ACOG is the way to go.
Then why not an adjustable power optic with an RMR? I used the ACOG to great advantage while I was in, but the option to dial down to 1X or up to 6X would also be an advantage with a FFP reticle. The 1-6X24 GRSC is an example with an internal ranging reticle set up for the a particular round.
Thanks for the kind words brother, I would have weighed in more but didn't have any real experience with the options you listed in your op.
I'm obviously biased towards NF's offerings, however they have treated me extremely well, and up to this point I have not personally needed anything else besides what they offered.
You can always go with a 2/3-9/10x type optic and then run a secondary optic like a T-1 in a 45 degree mount to give you the 1x type capabilities. I really like Larue's LT724 mount in conjunct with a T-1 for this type configuration.
My recommendation would be to go with a NXSc 2.5-10x?(x24s are really hard to come by now that they are extinct, however the x32s are readily available). Then play around with it a little bit and if you find yourself wanting or needing a 1x capability, pick up a nice 45 degree offset mount and a T-1.
You certainly can get a whole lot of bang for your buck with a budget of $1500.
Do any of you guys advocating the NF 2.5-10x feel that the second focal plane reticle is a handicap, particularly with the mil-dot version?
Do any of you guys advocating the NF 2.5-10x feel that the second focal plane reticle is a handicap, particularly with the mil-dot version?
personally, no. at the distance I would use ranging at, I would have the scope set at maximum anyway.
personally, no. at the distance I would use ranging at, I would have the scope set at maximum anyway.
Thanks. I'm outfitting a 16" BCM Recce type for a magpul DMR class next month and am debating optics. Leaning pretty heavily towards the 2.5-10x32 w/ mildots / milturrets, other contender is a Z6i BRT.
If the Leupold Mk6 has the correct reticle, it might be the sane price version of the Z6i (a great optic, but offers only the circle dot, or a velocity reticle)
This looks quite interesting...
http://www.opticstalk.com/topic31730_page1.html
This looks quite interesting...
http://www.opticstalk.com/topic31730_page1.html
I don't see any of the pics using firefox. with IE, I just get the red x.
any ideas?
I don't see any of the pics using firefox. with IE, I just get the red x.
any ideas?
The OP in that thread said that the volume of hits crashed he server:cool: ,but it should be back up now.
Do any of you guys advocating the NF 2.5-10x feel that the second focal plane reticle is a handicap, particularly with the mil-dot version?
For Mid range (300-400M) I usually run at 5X and if I bother to use the hash marks, they are double. I zero at 200M so to 300M or so the holdover is easy enough to begin with.
For long range (500 to 700M for me) it's at 10X anyway, so dialing or using the hash marks both work. If past 500 I dial in the distance, so all I have to think about is wind correction.
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