View Full Version : strobe vs non-strobe light for HD
platoonDaddy
12-08-11, 20:33
Looking at the Streamlight TLR series and was wondering what is the advantages of strobe vs non-strobe?
I want to mount light to my HD shotgun via a 1913 picatinny rail.
Besides the disorienting effect of a strobe, it tends to disguise your location more than a solid beam coming from your firearm. The price difference is negligible, so given the choice I would opt for the strobe version. You may never need it or use it, but it is an option that may work in certain situations.
Read the thread about strobes being gimmicks or not. The general consensus is that it's a gimmick outside of some very narrow circumstances, an as a self defense weapon mounted light it's not a feature worth having.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the strobe version a little brighter? Or, are both the same brightness now?
I just bought another of the strobe version, because I thought it was brighter than the non-strobe, and turned off the strobe.
I think having a strobe mode is gimmicky, especially if you're forced to cycle through it to turn the light on/off. I much rather have a tailcap button with momentary on and off only as I can strobe voluntarily if I have to.
NCPatrolAR
02-07-12, 08:46
I was on the strobe bandwagon at first. After getting time with one (and still having one issued to me) I no longer see the need in one for 99% of the time that illumination is needed.
I think having a strobe mode is gimmicky, especially if you're forced to cycle through it to turn the light on/off.
Emphasis mine. I think that's the rub. Not so much good/bad, but "is it worth an extra control feature you need to futz with under stress?" I don't think so, but I also think that describing it as a "gimmick" is a bridge too far.
RE: brighter in pulse mode....shouldn't be, that's more of an interpretive effect in your head.
Lasers in repetitive-pulse mode = totally different story, but we're not talking lasers.
I was on the strobe bandwagon at first. After getting time with one (and still having one issued to me) I no longer see the need in one for 99% of the time that illumination is needed.
What were your thought on its ability to help mask your precise position in a CQB or in clearing scenarios.
My understanding is that Southnarc does a demo that is pretty impressive.
I have always thought they were a bit gimmicky, but I'm starting to hear a few positive points about them that make sense in certain roles.
Cesiumsponge
02-07-12, 10:30
My opinion: strobe sucks. Especially true on multi-mode lights. If you've ever had to use short bursts of light to illuminate areas or keep your on times short and move so you aren't a lighthouse (light discipline), you invariably cycle in the multimode features and inadvertently activate alternative modes. I'm hating the multimode "tactical" lights now. Surefire 618 still works swell on my 870.
My take on things was that a handheld strobe with simple activation (no double taps and BS) was really effective for hunting. I didn't believe it until I saw it, but SouthNarc showed a pretty good way to use it to mask location while hunting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgZzVjhodrk
On a weaponlight, I have no desire for it, and I think the Streamlight "double tap to strobe" activation is awful. I dropped my Streamlight PT1L in favor of a 4Sevens Quark because of the switching difference alone. Trying to double tap it every time I wanted to flashbulb an area while searching was a complete PITA.
The TLR-1s IS brighter than the non "S" version in regular output, they use different lamps in them. The trouble is that a number of people have had problems with repeated recoil simulating some "lock out" procedure for enabling or disabling the strobe (something about doing something 10x in a row to program it somehow). A search here should turn up mention of that issue.
For that reason alone, I'd NOT get the TLR-1s, even though it's brighter.
In a hand held, with straight forward access to the strobe, I'm a fan. On a WML or with crappy access to it, I think it's next to useless.
NCPatrolAR
02-07-12, 11:36
What were your thought on its ability to help mask your precise position in a CQB or in clearing scenarios.
When working inside of a structure in a slow, deliberate style clear I use short bursts of light at random heights and various light techniques (neck index, modified FBI, etc). If I feel the need to strobe the light; this is easily accomplished by rapid depressing and releasing of the activation switch.
When trying to look through auto glass the strobe did nothing to help me clear the interior of a vehicle one night when I was chasing someone
NCPatrolAR
02-07-12, 11:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgZzVjhodrk
What's the context of that? What is supposed to be/is happening? I watched it on my iPhone while on surveillance so maybe I missed something
What's the context of that? What is supposed to be/is happening? I watched it on my iPhone while on surveillance so maybe I missed something
Showing a searching technique to move through a structure.
First run was more traditional, predictable light use. Second was entering while creating some misdirection with the strobe.
I have played with and really didn't like it. I prefer instant on flashes of light only when needed.
As far as disorienting an opponent, I don't see any advantage over a bright solid light.
Once you encounter them, you are either shooting them or controlling them. Why add another element that could be disorienting to both of you?
Showing a searching technique to move through a structure.
First run was more traditional, predictable light use. Second was entering while creating some misdirection with the strobe.
Were you able to mimic the results by just pulsing a light or was a strobe actually NEEDED to accomplish the desired misdirection ?
NCPatrolAR
02-07-12, 12:06
Showing a searching technique to move through a structure.
First run was more traditional, predictable light use. Second was entering while creating some misdirection with the strobe.
so was that supposed to show that the strobe is better?
NoveskeFan
02-07-12, 12:16
I just took a "Night Fighter" class and this is what I took from it. The strobe is good to have in a handheld light for searching. If your hiding in the corner of a room, its harder to tell how many people are coming and where they are in relation to the room...when done right. A constant on light gives up location, as you can see the shadow line get bigger as it comes closer to the door. As far as for a weapon mounted light, get the brightest one you can find. Its amazing how 100 + lumen's will blind the crap out of you. Just remember to keep the light in the bad guys eyes...and remember they might shoot at the light:eek:
lifebreath
02-07-12, 12:21
Simpler = better for me. That means no strobe. Simple Surefire with pressure pad to momentarily activate.
Were you able to mimic the results by just pulsing a light or was a strobe actually NEEDED to accomplish the desired misdirection ?
I cant get a non strobe to have the same effect, personally.
I have played with and really didn't like it. I prefer instant on flashes of light only when needed.
As far as disorienting an opponent, I don't see any advantage over a bright solid light.
Once you encounter them, you are either shooting them or controlling them. Why add another element that could be disorienting to both of you?
You are buying some reaction time, is all. One student in this class got lit the hell up using an x300 while I had trouble picking up guys who entered while using the strobe, and I had better success against them using the strobe than not.
You are buying some reaction time, is all. One student in this class got lit the hell up using an x300 while I had trouble picking up guys who entered while using the strobe, and I had better success against them using the strobe than not.
Fair enough.
Ultimately, it is another tool that can fall into the "It's better to have an not need...." category since cost and weight are not much of a factor.
so was that supposed to show that the strobe is better?
Was it that obvious? lol
Yeah, I was big on the "gimmicky BS , gonna give the BG seizures, bullshit" bandwagon for a while.
But Southnarc has a pretty impressive technique for utilizing it , and does some outstanding demo's with it. After said instruction being bale to use it effectively against other's in the training environment sold me.
I dont think I can do the material justice posting about it, and I also dont think anyone is really going to use it to its potential without quality instruction.
Im using a 4sevens Quark Tactical, and you can access modes with a twist of the cap so there is no "tripple tap for SOS" function going on. I just select either of 2 modes I have pre set. which is "stupid bright" and "strobe" .
NCPatrolAR
02-07-12, 14:36
Was it that obvious? lol
Thanks. I certainly didn't get that from the video.
Thanks. I certainly didn't get that from the video.
Sure. I guess the camera doesn't quite capture light or give the viewer the same "flashbulb" effect as being there in person, but I had hoped that it helped explain the difference between the two techniques, and I thought that clip did a reasonable job of showing it's effectiveness.... maybe not I guess.
NCPatrolAR
02-07-12, 15:40
Sure. I guess the camera doesn't quite capture light or give the viewer the same "flashbulb" effect as being there in person, but I had hoped that it helped explain the difference between the two techniques, and I thought that clip did a reasonable job of showing it's effectiveness.... maybe not I guess.
The issue I have with the video is that the non-strobing light seems to always be held at the same level through out the demo and the light seems to be on longer than it should be. Its a classic case of how to not use a light (whether using a strobing or non-strobing light)
The strobing light in that video appears to be used at various heights and in an arcing motion. Both are tactics that should be employed with any light being used.
If I'm wrong on how the lights were used or the purposes of the demo (ie the "flashbulb" was intentionally done in less than desireable manner) please let me know.
The issue I have with the video is that the non-strobing light seems to always be held at the same level through out the demo and the light seems to be on longer than it should be. Its a classic case of how to not use a light (whether using a strobing or non-strobing light)
The strobing light in that video appears to be used at various heights and in an arcing motion. Both are tactics that should be employed with any light being used.
If I'm wrong on how the lights were used or the purposes of the demo (ie the "flashbulb" was intentionally done in less than desireable manner) please let me know.
Yeah, I asked SouthNarc to demo the difference between the more classical flashbulb technique and what he had just showed us with the strobe... so that's what was shown.
The demo wasn't done PURELY to showcase the difference between a strobe vs. regular, rather what he had just showed us versus what many of us were used to.
FWIW, I've had low light blocks of instruction from some pretty credible dudes, and non showed or emphasized moving the light as erratically as SouthNarc showed us (changing levels, arcing, moving opposite your direction of travel, etc)... most all of the instruction I've had on "low light technique" was on positions to shoot from with the light, and not nearly the emphasis on "searching/hunting" techniques.
NCPatrolAR
02-07-12, 20:37
most all of the instruction I've had on "low light technique" was on positions to shoot from with the light, and not nearly the emphasis on "searching/hunting" techniques.
Unfortunately this is extremely common. While there is some cross-over between shooting and searching techniques; I've found that the techniques I use to search a structure are often not the same methods taught in lowlight shooting classes.
Remember the old days when we had to use our thumb to strobe. But that led to all those cases of CST (Chronic Strobe Thumb)- George
never used or owned a tactical light until recently for the simple fact that i may give my adversary an early advantage , but got a good deal on a light so we'll see how she runs or better yet how i perform with her. Any tips?
never used or owned a tactical light until recently for the simple fact that i may give my adversary an early advantage , but got a good deal on a light so we'll see how she runs or better yet how i perform with her. Any tips?
"Light draw fire, Lights draw vision" - SouthNarc
Use the light as minimally as you need to, try not to be where the light was last turned one, move the light as erratically as you can to create some misdirection (drawing vision away from you if possible).
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