Double Star AR with gun show reload ammo range fun

[Devildawg2531]

I was sighting in my new Bravo Company 18" BCM Mk 12 Mod 3X-Bravo (DD14) with SS 3-9 scope and practicing with DDM4 V3 with Aimpoint T1. Anyway this guy at the range walks over and says I see you have AR's will you look at mine because I can't get it to fire. I said sure and asked what kind it was and he said DoubleStar. I'd never heard of DoubleStar but it was brand new. I chambered a round in his DoubleStar and pulled the trigger - "click". Checked the primer on that round and it was barely dented; tried a few more with the same result. This was using his gun show reload ammo. I tried a few of his gun show reloads in my BCM and they fired with no problem. I grabbed a few of my Federal 193's and they fired in his DoubleStar without problem. He asked what would cause this; his gun was bone dry and I told him AR's run better wet and that I would clean and lube before shooting a new gun. His gun also had some bolt release lever in front of the trigger that when pressed the bolt kind of drug forward and didn't want to seat properly. I assume this could be from his bolt being dry. I didn't really solve his problem but told him it could be his reload ammo or the gun being too dry. I didn't tell him his AR brand was of questionable quality. He was going to return it to the dealer. Anyway what would cause his gun not to fire with reloads and mine run it 100%? But with good ammo his DoubleStar ran fine?

[lamarbrog]

Probably an issue of "tolerance stacking". A firing pin that's on the short side, casings with primer pockets on the deep side, and maybe hard primers.

I'd have told him to toss the gun show reloads and buy some real ammo... as far as I am concerned, a reliability test with questionable ammo is a waste of time.

[DeltaSierra]

I'd have told him to toss the gun show reloads and buy some real ammo... as far as I am concerned, a reliability test with questionable ammo is a waste of time.

Not only is it a waste of time, it is potentially dangerous.

I wouldn't be caught shooting random "gunshow" reloads out of any firearm.....

[TacticalSledgehammer]

I've had 2 double star rifles. They've been around for over 10 years.
Each ran flawless. They would feed 100% with wolf and any brass stuff. DSC/J&T dist/ace stocks are all sister companies. They use ER Shaw barrels, CMT bcg, and rumored colt lpk. It's a quality commercial gun not milspec though. Probably on the level of S&W or Stag, not DPMS.

[Nightgunner]

I have also owned two different Double Star M4s. Both functioned very well and ate everything I fed them. I can't speak to long term viability nor high round counts. For general range time and Coyote hunting they are a good value.

[skyugo]

Probably an issue of "tolerance stacking". A firing pin that's on the short side, casings with primer pockets on the deep side, and maybe hard primers.

I'd have told him to toss the gun show reloads and buy some real ammo... as far as I am concerned, a reliability test with questionable ammo is a waste of time.

the gun show reloads might not be fully resized. if you don't have your sizer die all the way down ti doesn't push the shoulder of the case low enough. This can lead to failure to go into battery especially with tight chambers and dry guns.

[lamarbrog]

the gun show reloads might not be fully resized. if you don't have your sizer die all the way down ti doesn't push the shoulder of the case low enough. This can lead to failure to go into battery especially with tight chambers and dry guns.

Good point.

Especially since Double Star doesn't typically chrome chambers for the purpose of maintaining maximum accuracy, they might be cutting their chambers a little on the tighter side as well which would make the problem worse.

[steelonsteel]

tolerance stacking is my theory - proabbly in aprt due to double stars barrels I'm guessing.

[lamarbrog]

tolerance stacking is my theory - proabbly in aprt due to double stars barrels I'm guessing.

Between the chamber likely being on the tight side of spec, and the ammo very possibly being out of spec entirely... this is pretty well case closed I think.

Certain rifles, like those made by Double Star, are not really combat rifles... they're supposed to give you a little more accuracy, and be good on the range. What limited experience I have had with Double Star says they excel at this. Certain things that would be a boon to perfect reliability under all conditions are omitted in favor of marginal increases in accuracy.

Add to that ammunition that is about as questionable as it can possibly get... and it's no wonder there were problems. It's a shame he's taking the rifle back- it's probably a great rifle for what he's using it for, just had to feed it decent ammo.

[aklaunch]

That sounds like a lubrication issue to me!

I have seen that exact same scenario play out before. Lube fixed it.

[TacticalSledgehammer]

I think its just as mentioned. Lube and bad ammo is probably the root of the problem. I have a lmt/spikes now but wouldn't hesitate owning a double star again especially for a range toy. Did I say that already lol.

[ralph]

the gun show reloads might not be fully resized. if you don't have your sizer die all the way down ti doesn't push the shoulder of the case low enough. This can lead to failure to go into battery especially with tight chambers and dry guns.

Or, on the oppsite side of the coin, the GS reloads could have had the sizing die set too deeply, pushing the shoulder down too far, allowing them to seat too deeply into the chamber, and the firing pin would'nt be able to hit the primer hard enough..One could check these loads with a case gage and it'll tell you right away. Had this very thing happen to me a long time ago..Bought a case gage and set my sizing die up with it, no more problems..

[Devildawg2531]

Or, on the oppsite side of the coin, the GS reloads could have had the sizing die set too deeply, pushing the shoulder down too far, allowing them to seat too deeply into the chamber, and the firing pin would'nt be able to hit the primer hard enough..One could check these loads with a case gage and it'll tell you right away. Had this very thing happen to me a long time ago..Bought a case gage and set my sizing die up with it, no more problems..

But if this was the issue I don't think his gun show reloads would fire in my BCM - which they did 100%.

[Eric]

I chambered a round in his DoubleStar and pulled the trigger - "click". Checked the primer on that round and it was barely dented; tried a few more with the same result. This was using his gun show reload ammo. I tried a few of his gun show reloads in my BCM and they fired with no problem.
One of the more common reasons for a light primer strike is an incorrectly installed hammer spring. It is possible to put it in up-side-down and have it function intermittently, but there is inadequate spring pressure for reliable ignition. Check to see that the hammer spring is installed like the one in the photo. Note that the legs on the spring come from underneath and ride on top of the trigger pin.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/IMG_5660.jpg

[Col_Crocs]

Eric's theory is very possible. THis, plus hard primers, hence, he was able to shoot the factory ammo. Was the trigger pull light when you fired it?


I tried a few of his gun show reloads in my BCM and they fired with no problem.
BTW... You are a brave man.

[kywndg]

I've got a Doublestar STAR-15 that's more of a mutt now, but it has performed flawlessly for me over the course of about 8 years through all of its variations. As others have said, it will run through any kind of ammo I feed it without a hiccup. I would say the cheap ammo might be the culprit.

[DeAdeYE15]

Or, on the oppsite side of the coin, the GS reloads could have had the sizing die set too deeply, pushing the shoulder down too far, allowing them to seat too deeply into the chamber, and the firing pin would'nt be able to hit the primer hard enough..One could check these loads with a case gage and it'll tell you right away. Had this very thing happen to me a long time ago..Bought a case gage and set my sizing die up with it, no more problems..

I doubt this is the case. A sizing die is supposed to be screwed in until it touches the shell holder, and then screwed in another 1/4 to 1/2 turn for rifle cartridges.

[5pins]

One of the more common reasons for a light primer strike is an incorrectly installed hammer spring. It is possible to put it in up-side-down and have it function intermittently, but there is inadequate spring pressure for reliable ignition. Check to see that the hammer spring is installed like the one in the photo. Note that the legs on the spring come from underneath and ride on top of the trigger pin.


My first thought was that the hammer spring was installed improperly.

[Dienekes]

Used a Doublestar pencil barrel (from Brownell's) to replace the stock barrel on an M4gery about a year ago. Headspace came in fine, and such shooting as I have done with it suggests that it is more accurate that the barrel I took off ever was.

As for gunshot ammo--I wouldn't take it for free. Saw a Smith M36 blow up once with "mystery ammo". That was on an indoor range, and we never found all the pieces of the gun.

[Brian Brazier]

As others have stated it could be a few things, lube, hammer spring upside down, ammo, etc... I wouldnt be suprised if it was a combination of lack of lube, and ammo. I currently own a Doublestar M4 with a heavy barrel, it has performed flawlessly as did my previous 20" A3 (wish I had never sold that one). I have read numerous replys to Doublestar threads bashing them for no apparent reason, usually by people who have never even touched a DS rifle, which I never understood. My DS is properly staked, runs any ammo, is very accurate, and with the $300 or so I saved allowed me to get a Aimpoint PRO optic, whats not to like (rant over) :thank_you2:

Some Doublestar porn for the heck of it
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t97/bbrazierkendo/DSCN0005-1.jpg

[TehLlama]

One of the more common reasons for a light primer strike is an incorrectly installed hammer spring. It is possible to put it in up-side-down and have it function intermittently, but there is inadequate spring pressure for reliable ignition. Check to see that the hammer spring is installed like the one in the photo. Note that the legs on the spring come from underneath and ride on top of the trigger pin.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/IMG_5660.jpg

I wouldn't be jumping completely on the DS is crap train, until we can conclusively rule out that the rifle itself wasn't a gun show assembly special, and this or FCG components from god knows where sitting in a double star lower.

[TacticalSledgehammer]

I wouldn't be jumping completely on the DS is crap train, until we can conclusively rule out that the rifle itself wasn't a gun show assembly special, and this or FCG components from god knows where sitting in a double star lower.

Good point. It's not one of the companies talked about much on here (good or bad) so I think most usually assume its junk. They are talking about bringing out a truely milspec rifle. I guess only time will tell of it becomes as good as the others we know of.

[DeAdeYE15]

As others have stated it could be a few things, lube, hammer spring upside down, ammo, etc... I wouldnt be suprised if it was a combination of lack of lube, and ammo. I currently own a Doublestar M4 with a heavy barrel, it has performed flawlessly as did my previous 20" A3 (wish I had never sold that one). I have read numerous replys to Doublestar threads bashing them for no apparent reason, usually by people who have never even touched a DS rifle. My DS is properly staked, runs any ammo, is very accurate, and with the $300 or so I saved allowed me to get a Aimpoint PRO optic, whats not to like (rant over) :thank_you2:

Some Doublestar porn for the heck of it



I'm sure there's plenty not to like. I'm not going to put the energy into it right now, but I'm sure someone will be along shortly to let you know that if its not milspec then it might as well be mud! Double Star has become very popular in my area because there so cheap compared to most ARs. They'll definitely never find a home with me, but I'm sure there just fine as a "hobby" gun or for someone that just wants to say they own an AR.;)

14.5 mid length BCM
http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r505/BCM_SHOOTER/BCMpic5.jpg?t=1338000151

and non-mil-spec but still good quality S&W M&P15T
http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r505/BCM_SHOOTER/2012-04-0118.jpg?t=1336978036

[Brian Brazier]

Detleted post, as it was getting off topic. DevilDawg, hopefully you can pass on the info and help him get his rifle running

[DeAdeYE15]

I would avoid any reloads that I didn't load my self. If someone was selling reloads I'm sure he was using the cheapest components possible. I'm guessing Wolf primers in combination with a light hammer spring, maybe a JP 3.5 lb. It could be a number of other things too.