View Full Version : A little GLOCK advice.....
I am in the market for a new Glock for my GF. So I took her out this weekend for a little trigger time, and after trying a Gen3, Model 23 40 caliber, and a just under a hundred rounds through my Model 20, she informed me that she preferred the 10mm hands down. She seems to handle the thing pretty darn well, and can most definitely put repeated rounds on target!!!! (Remind me to never piss her off)
My major concern is the size of the large frame automatic and her using it as an everyday carry weapon(in vehicle/purse).....definitely not whether or not she can handle it. She even seemed to prefer the recoil of the large frame Model 20 10mm to the Model 23 .40 caliber.
Looking for opinions/options before I purchase. Should I go with another Model 20, or try to find something in a smaller frame/caliber that she likes as much????
Let her shoot a bunch of different Glocks and let her decide for herself. Making it clear that you're buying exactly what she wants will smooth over a lot of problems down the line.
Okie John
Nephrology
12-13-11, 13:14
Has she tried any of the 9mm variants? I find they are universally easier to shoot than the .40 cals. The 10mm is probably nicer to her because it has a longer action that allows it to more evenly distribute the recoil.
misanthropist
12-13-11, 13:17
As a guy with a fair bit of time in on 10mm guns, here is a complete dodge of your question and some related thoughts:
1) it might be worth figuring out what specifically she likes about the 20.
Commercial 10mm is barely loaded past 40 S&W so depending on what you were shooting, she may prefer the relaxed, "thuddy" recoil impulse of weak sauce 10mm in a G20 to the snappy, harsh recoil of .40 in a 23.
2) unless you reload, 10mm is pretty pricey for practise time...so the question may become one of "how much will she be able to shoot it, and is that enough to be effective under pressure?"
3) The G29sf is a nice little gun chambered in 10mm
4) Run her on a timer with the G20 and a G19. I freaking love my 20sf but it's easier to go fast with a 9mm. Although I think my personal fastest run on the FAST is actually with the 10mm, that's really more a matter of when I was doing FAST stuff regularly, and what I was shooting at the time. In general, the 9mm is just easier and the recoil is, IMO, definitely preferable to the G23.
5) If it turns out she likes "thuddy" recoil a lot, maybe look at an M&P45c? That's thuddy recoil in a much more convenient package.
6) Unless you have some kind of freaky master-slave relationship (not that there's anything wrong with that) my experience with girls and guns is that the right choice on paper almost never lines up with what they actually want to have, and if they end up having a gun that is not what they really wanted, they don't use it, because they don't like it.
My wife will not shoot plastic guns. Or rather, she won't enthusiastically shoot plastic guns. It doesn't matter that they make sense; it doesn't matter that I have 4 billion mags and holsters and sights and everything. It doesn't matter that the Glock manual of arms can be memorized by a dog in eleven seconds. It's an aesthetic thing: no metal, no joy. So she shoots a West German 226, and I had to go get her all the accessories to fit it. But if I pushed a G19 on her, which was definitely the right choice on paper, she wouldn't love it, so she wouldn't shoot it.
Anyway, points to ponder that are related to your question, but totally ignore the specific question you asked. You are therefore semi-welcome.
She has tried all the 9mm, 40 and 10mm..... at first she wasn't very comfortable with the large grip on the Model 20, but after shooting nearly 100 rounds out of the 10mm on Sunday, she seems to prefer it over the others and has managed to get comfortable with the large frame.
One thing I am curious about, my current Model 20 is a Gen I with an upgraded Gen III frame (upgraded by Glock because I wanted the option of rails), can I expect any difference in recoil with a Gen IV Model 20????
Nephrology
12-13-11, 13:26
Probably some, but good luck finding them.
I would strongly nudge her towards 9mm because the likelihood of her lugging a Glock 20 around all the time is....minimal. Especially once she actually starts doing it. Hell if I only had a Glock 20 I would have a hard time carrying 24/7/365.
As a guy with a fair bit of time in on 10mm guns, here is a complete dodge of your question and some related thoughts:
1) it might be worth figuring out what specifically she likes about the 20.
Commercial 10mm is barely loaded past 40 S&W so depending on what you were shooting, she may prefer the relaxed, "thuddy" recoil impulse of weak sauce 10mm in a G20 to the snappy, harsh recoil of .40 in a 23.
2) unless you reload, 10mm is pretty pricey for practise time...so the question may become one of "how much will she be able to shoot it, and is that enough to be effective under pressure?"
3) The G29sf is a nice little gun chambered in 10mm
4) Run her on a timer with the G20 and a G19. I freaking love my 20sf but it's easier to go fast with a 9mm. Although I think my personal fastest run on the FAST is actually with the 10mm, that's really more a matter of when I was doing FAST stuff regularly, and what I was shooting at the time. In general, the 9mm is just easier and the recoil is, IMO, definitely preferable to the G23.
5) If it turns out she likes "thuddy" recoil a lot, maybe look at an M&P45c? That's thuddy recoil in a much more convenient package.
6) Unless you have some kind of freaky master-slave relationship (not that there's anything wrong with that) my experience with girls and guns is that the right choice on paper almost never lines up with what they actually want to have, and if they end up having a gun that is not what they really wanted, they don't use it, because they don't like it.
My wife will not shoot plastic guns. Or rather, she won't enthusiastically shoot plastic guns. It doesn't matter that they make sense; it doesn't matter that I have 4 billion mags and holsters and sights and everything. It doesn't matter that the Glock manual of arms can be memorized by a dog in eleven seconds. It's an aesthetic thing: no metal, no joy. So she shoots a West German 226, and I had to go get her all the accessories to fit it. But if I pushed a G19 on her, which was definitely the right choice on paper, she wouldn't love it, so she wouldn't shoot it.
Anyway, points to ponder that are related to your question, but totally ignore the specific question you asked. You are therefore semi-welcome.
LOL, now that is SOLID advice!!!!!
All great advice!!!! Keep it coming!!!!
Has she tried a .45? I really like my G21 SF :D and the little brother... G30 SF is very concealable.
have her shoot some more
novices don't know what they really want until they have a few thousand rounds through the pipe. You have to wait until she gets past the "honeymoon" stage of shooting a gun.
have her shoot some more
novices don't know what they really want until they have a few thousand rounds through the pipe. You have to wait until she gets past the "honeymoon" stage of shooting a gun.
Well she has been going back and forth between the 9mm and 40 caliber for a couple of months now then a complete flip on Sunday to the 10mm....maybe I should just go with what ever "mood" she is in, and then when she changes her mind, just go buy another gun.....you can't have too many can you???? :D
Male Machismo aside.
Do you feel confident in her ability to wield a 10mm firearm when her heart rate is bordering tachycardia?
I think it is universally accepted, or at least it should be that a handgun is only effectively employed by the use of rapid, repeated, accurate shots.
Why not give her a gun that without a doubt is easier to shoot than any other major defensive caliber out there, ie the 9mm?
IF this is not a defensive firearm and she is shooting purely for fun and she finds the 100mm more fun than the other handguns, awesome, rock on but if you are attempting to set her up for success in regard to potentially defending her life or yours then put the bullshit caliber debate aside and get her a soft recoiling, easy to shoot firearm with pretty darned badass modern ballistics to support it, ie the 9mm.
nimslerpon
12-13-11, 15:55
There are obviously a great deal of guns out there to choose from, but trying them all will not only cost you a fortune (unless you know someone with a lot of guns), but it will become frustrating as well. Just stick to trying a few different variations of quality handguns (HK, Glock, M&P, Beretta, CZ) with different actions, materials, and calibers.
The responses just keep getting better and hitting on my major concerns.
1) Manual of arms and the whole SHTF situation. Hard to beat a Glock (or similar) in that department. When the adrenaline is pumping and the heart rate has shot through the roof, I don't want her to have to think about anything but addressing the threat in an appropriate manner.
2) I want her to keep it on her at all times (which is why I am concerned about the large frame pistols) and unfortunately, I am of the same opinion that she won't carry everyday, all day. However, she seems to prefer the recoil management of the larger frame autos and that "thud" that msanthopist so eloquently described.
I do appreciate all the rock solid advice and personal perspectives on the matter. I wouldn't have even brought the subject up if I was not concerned about her ability to use and willingness to carry a 10mm. Which gives me plenty to talk with her about before SHE decides on what she wants.
We have had lengthy discussions about her willingness to use a weapon if push comes to shove. I think she completely understands
the concept of "be willing to use it, or be willing to eat it".
I guess it is back to the local shops and ranges to let her make an informed decision about the "right" weapon for her.
Again, I appreciate all the opinions, and if there are any more out there, I would love to hear them.
TJ
TJ,
If you want her to carry a weapon more often than not you're going to have to make it easy for her to do so.
A full size weapon will NOT be carried on her person. Female clothing simply does NOT allow that.
Now, a smaller gun, say a Kahr, an M&P 9C , G26 or PPS might fit the bill.
I would personally look into a S&W M&P 9c or a recent production generation 4 G19. These two guns have a softer recoil impulse than any other gun in this category. You described the non linear thud that she digs, both of these compact guns have similar impulses to their larger brethren without sacrificing shootability. (too much).
Good luck dude. I tried my damnedest to get my ex, that i loved very much to carry and she simply wouldnt accept the fact that a firearm is a tool, aesthetics dont mean anything and pure functionality and fit trumps all.
Nephrology
12-13-11, 17:18
The responses just keep getting better and hitting on my major concerns.
1) Manual of arms and the whole SHTF situation. Hard to beat a Glock (or similar) in that department. When the adrenaline is pumping and the heart rate has shot through the roof, I don't want her to have to think about anything but addressing the threat in an appropriate manner.
2) I want her to keep it on her at all times (which is why I am concerned about the large frame pistols) and unfortunately, I am of the same opinion that she won't carry everyday, all day. However, she seems to prefer the recoil management of the larger frame autos and that "thud" that msanthopist so eloquently described.
I do appreciate all the rock solid advice and personal perspectives on the matter. I wouldn't have even brought the subject up if I was not concerned about her ability to use and willingness to carry a 10mm. Which gives me plenty to talk with her about before SHE decides on what she wants.
We have had lengthy discussions about her willingness to use a weapon if push comes to shove. I think she completely understands
the concept of "be willing to use it, or be willing to eat it".
I guess it is back to the local shops and ranges to let her make an informed decision about the "right" weapon for her.
Again, I appreciate all the opinions, and if there are any more out there, I would love to hear them.
TJ
If it actually is the case that she lucks the "thud" or whatever we want to call longer action mediated recoil, maybe look into single stack .45s. a M&P45c might also not be a bad idea.
Look at it this way.
My sister was getting into shooting and was having a lot of fun with it, but she didn't know what she wanted. When we went to our local fun store, she looked like she was in a candy store. She was playing with all the guns they had and she wanted all of it (she's definitely going through the honeymoon period). I told her to hold until she became more proficient with the gun to get a better idea of what she wanted (girls have no idea what they want remember?).
Fast forward six months after trying out the M&P9, XD-M, HK P30, Glocks, etc....she settled on the Glock 19 GEN4. At first, she was looking at what was "cute" and some of the cool looking two-tones without giving a single thought about the shootability for HER.
I know it's exciting to have your girlfriend excited about shooting, but you need to look pass that and let the "honeymoon" period ride out until she can walk into the gun store herself and know exactly what she wants. All you should do is help her try out a few gun and support her, but don't strong arm her into a specific gun because YOU want it.
How well can she run the G-20 one handed and under stress? How would she conceal a gun the size and weight of a G20 as an EDC? Consider also, as others have mentioned, that 10mm practice ammo is quite pricey. I sold my G20 & G21 for those reasons. I much prefer the G19 or G17 and am not terribly fond of the G23.
......... but don't strong arm her into a specific gun because YOU want it.
LOL, nah I definitely want it to be her choice....I have my toys!!!! ;)
I am sure it will take months more before she decides exactly what she wants....but again, I definitely want it to be her choice. When it comes right down to it, she is the ONLY one that has to live with the decision.
Personally, I dislike the recoil characteristics of the 23, but the 19 suits me fine. The 20 is a big gun for anyone to conceal, even though the weight isn't bad. I'd also find a short frame for her to try, perhaps a 29 as well as a 19. Like has been mentioned earlier, find as many different ones for her to shoot as possible, get her to do some basic drills with each if possible and then let her choose. Good luck!
She might like the G20 just fine on a stress-free square range when she can shoot deliberately. What will her performance be like under stress, time, and in a more dynamic environment?
How well can she run the G-20 one handed and under stress? How would she conceal a gun the size and weight of a G20 as an EDC? Consider also, as others have mentioned, that 10mm practice ammo is quite pricey. I sold my G20 & G21 for those reasons. I much prefer the G19 or G17 and am not terribly fond of the G23.
^This^
I know lots of folks who think they can shoot caliber X, but this is on a square range during good weather when the birds are singing and fluffy clouds float through a blue sky.
If you can't shoot it one handed, in the rain, using a flashlight in the other hand because it's dark, from the ground since you managed to slide in the mud onto your ass during your gunfight,,,, well, then, you should find a gun that fits you better.
That being said, I have taught chicks to shoot who could actually handle a larger griped pistol than I can. My hands are XL when buying gloves, and I'm an 6'2" XXL sized guy. What I noticed is that although my hands might be bigger, my grip isn't able to wrap around as much of the pistol grip due to my hands being beefier than many gals' hands. I know a gal that has hands the same size as mine when we place them over each other, but she can get her trigger finger onto the trigger of a standard G17/22 all the way to the second joint. She shoots G21s just fine and they fits her hands well, but unfortunately she can't carry a .45 at work due to department policy. She now runs a gen 4 G22 with the large grip installed as it fits her hand better.
Just throwing all that out there just in case this is a similar case.
If your gal likes the 10mm, and the large guns actually fit her hand, I'd look at a gen 4 G19 with the large grip installed, or a G29/30. If you go 10mm you can always get a .40 barrel for cheaper practice.
CarlosDJackal
12-14-11, 10:37
G20 (whether SF or not):
PROS - Great muzzle velocity, excellent terminal ballistics, comfort (I also prefer the biggest framed Glocks).
CONS - Cost of ammo, recoil can get to you after a couple of hundred rounds, availability of ammo, harder to conceal, heavier to lug around, hard to find magazines.
G19 or 23 (regardless of generation - as compared to the 10mm)
PROS - Manageable recoil especially in the long term, affordable ammo, availability of ammo, more manageable size and weight, magazines are more plentiful and available.
CONS - Neither is a 10mm but with the current design of self-defense ammo, this has been marginalized.
You are wise to take your time in deciding. Impressions can change over time, and renting the same gun a few times can tell one whether it will work or not.
The G20 is a big gun to hold onto. I would not write off 9mm. Some of the +P and +P+ loads are quite hot, and have a good kick to them. The G19 is a very nice size. I have two G17's, and will be adding a G19 soon as it fits my other half better than my G17 does, and we both like shooting the G19 a lot.
Another thing to think about when looking at the G22 and G23. If you are shooting the 180 grain loads, take a box of some .40 in 135 or 155 grain bullets. They have a lot more kick to them.
I have shot a G17 and a G22 side by side, and a week later shot a G19 and a G23 side by side. We were using PMC Bronze 180 grain in the G22 and G23, and I could not tell the difference been the 17 and 22 or the 19 and 23. Pick up some hot loads in .40 and see how she likes the .40 then.
Keep in mind, 9mm in +P and +P+ can be just as hot as the milder .40 loads, which is why I think 9mm should still be in the mix.
To me, the G20 would make a fantastic range gun, but the ammo is hard to find, and quite expensive.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.