Pack & Vest Combo Suggestions?

[Lone_Ranger]

I'm looking at taking a long range rifle course, next summer. Looking for gear recommendations. I'm currently using an Infidel Battle Belt, with Safariland 6005, which works great when just shooting at the range, but isn't suited for use over a BDU/ACU coat.

I was toying with the Eberlestock Gunslinger, but a friend who has been through the course recommends against it. Says the rifle rides too high, and slops around if you have to move fast. He recommends the old ALICE, but I have nightmares about the ALICE from my time in the guard. We had to wear it over LBE belt and suspenders, two canteens, and two ammo pouches. None of it worked together as a system. Two sets of straps were uncomfortable, you couldn't fasten the belt over your canteens and pouches so you would take it off, and all the weight went on your lower back.

I'd like to carry pistol, water, and extra mags on me, in a tactical vest. And the rifle, spotting scope, rain/sniffle gear, etc., in a pack. I don't need armor, though it would be a plus if the vest had the option to carry armor. I'd also like to be slick in front, as I will spend a lot of time prone.

I've been considering the Eberlestock Gunslinger II, Camelbak Delta 5 Tactical Vest, and Ares Armor Combat XVII Pack. But, I'm not sold on anything, yet. I put a high priority on things working together as a system.

Suggestions?

[nobody knows]

If you get one of the bigger/longer eberlestock packs like the g4 operator or the sky crane it won't be as bad, another thing that helps is if you have the rifle ridding muzzle end up as opposed to butstock up. As for the vest it sounds like your wanting one vest to do to much. Your not going to be using armor but you want it to be able to except armor, the problem with that is if you get a vest capable of holding armor is that wen it doesn't have armor It's going to be a big sagging mess. And it will not support your canteens and pouches. Lastly I'm not sure I understand this correctly or not but it sounds like you want a vest that is slick on the front but has molle/pals webing on the sides and rear? If that's the case I don't know of anything like that (although I'm sure there probably is) but what you could do is get one that has the pals/molle webing and just leave I slick. And if that's what you actually ment to begin with then there are a lot of good choices but they would require armor to function properly. The only vest that I know of that is supposed to function well without armor is the ones made by personal protective systems. They have a few different styles to choose from and it states on there website that they can be used with or without armor,but I have no first hand experience with it. If your willing to get the armor and where it any time you use the vest then the mayflower apc and the skd pig plate carrier are vary well made and popular amongst the tactical shooting community and there are plenty of reviews both here and elsewhere online.and you could buy training plated so you don't ruin you good plates while you train.

Edit to add- http://www.bdstacticalgear.com/pd-bds-tactical-modular-chest-rig.cfm I don't know if this would work for you or not but its worth a look. It's a modular chest rig that gives you about the same mounting space as a vest but won't be floppy without armor.

[Hammer27]

Might want to just leave out the whole idea of armor and get a split-front chest rig. Not as bulky and you can always just open it up when you're prone.

[Lone_Ranger]

I'll have to check out the Operator pack & carrying butt down. That may work. This class will definitely be without armor. I was leaning more toward vest, than chest rig, because I wanted it to carry hydration, and not have to deal with the extra set of shoulder straps, when I put the pack on. Though the Eberlestock packs do have pockets for hydration. I would prefer to have that on me, but if I choose to put it in the pack, I would just need a way to carry pistol & extra pistol mags on me, in a way that would work over an ACU shirt, and not get in the way of the pack.

[Lone_Ranger]

Edit to add- http://www.bdstacticalgear.com/pd-bds-tactical-modular-chest-rig.cfm I don't know if this would work for you or not but its worth a look. It's a modular chest rig that gives you about the same mounting space as a vest but won't be floppy without armor.

This may work. I like it!

[calicojack]

This may work. I like it!

be wary of shitty craftmanship/sewing. bds might have gotten government contracts but the NEAS out weigh the YEAS. That and there character (as a company and the owner's) is far less than spotless.

[Boy Scout]

I think your idea about the Camelbak vest is pretty spot on. Although I've not used that specific one, I used a similar vest (minus bladder) back in my SWAT days and found it to be more comfortable than my chest rigs. I think that vest would give you the ability to place the pouches where you need them to avoid strap "dig" while wearing the pack, and also give you the ability to leave the front slick if you'd like. I didn't even think about it, but Hammer27 mentioned just unzipping the vest when going prone, which would probably give you the best of both worlds.

[Lone_Ranger]

This one is perfect. The Echo, from Arc'teryx LEAF. Perfect, except for the $500 price tag!! :(

http://leaf.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?EN/Mens/Packs/Echo

[TehLlama]

The Tactical Tailor Removable Operator Pack (or the GreyGhost discount flavor that iirc is lightweight - better) can turn any MOLLE backed rig into one with an integral pack - something like the BCM Split Front would work very well with that.

[Lone_Ranger]

What do you think of the Eberlestock Destroyer, or Battleship?
http://youtu.be/js9nUVRSfBg

Gets rid of the back weapon carrier issue my friend was talking about, on the Gunslinger model. And, you can lash a rifle to the securely to the side.

[HuntingTime]

ares armor's combat pack is great for this purpose with the direct connect to a vest or carrier and i found it very light weight. thye also have very good quality. i found out about them here and have picked up a few pieces of gear from them.

[nobody knows]

be wary of shitty craftmanship/sewing. bds might have gotten government contracts but the NEAS out weigh the YEAS. That and there character (as a company and the owner's) is far less than spotless.

Yes I should have stated in my post that I have no personal experience with the products produced by bds tactical,nor did I have any knowledge of the companies reputation. I just ran across the company surfing the net. But there are other options that are similar from eagle ind,and they have a proven reputation.

[nobody knows]

This one is perfect. The Echo, from Arc'teryx LEAF. Perfect, except for the $500 price tag!! :(

http://leaf.arcteryx.com/Product.aspx?EN/Mens/Packs/Echo

Yes this is my dream pack. I love the design It's perfect for my needs,but the price has also kept me away. What is your price range? There are other packs available that may fit your needs. Tactical tailor has a similar pack,but I can't remember the name off the top of my head. It about $100 cheaper. There is also the kelty(?sp) 4,000. It's a vary nice pack. It's in the $300-350 range depending on where you get it from.

You could also use a battle belt like the V-Tac borkose(sp?) Battle belt. It gets great reviews online. That and something like the eagle rhodesion recon vest, or the black hawk strike commando recon vest(WTF LOL) goofy name and they don't have the best reputation, but at http://www.optactical.com/stcoreve.html they have both the eagle and black hawk vest, and the black hawk vest is on sale. It also has a front plate pocket for E-sapi type plate. With the belt rig and the vest you should have more the enough space for all your kit. Another thing you can do if you go a two pack rout. Is get witch ever larger pack you want then a smaller pack like the tactical tailor removable operator pack( I have one and love it vary well made peace of kit) and some swift clips. Then wen you don't need your big three day pack, you can attach the smaller pack to your vest via the swift clips. And wen you need the big pack you can piggy back the smaller on onto the larger pack with the same swift clips. I use this set up with my chest rig and it works great. Just some ideas. Sorry for the long post. Hope you find something that works for you.

[Lone_Ranger]

I was looking at $300 give or take, for a pack, $150 for a vest. Somewhere in that range.

I like that Rhodesian Recon Vest! But, someone mentioned earlier, that a vest designed to carry armor, can be a sloppy fit, when used without armor.

I do like the concept. http://selousscouts.tripod.com/EQUIPMENT.htm. Updated with MOLLE and a hydration bag, instead of the two GI canteens, though.

[nobody knows]

^^^^^it was me that said that and that is true most of the time with carriers that have a plate pocket/plate bags. Now with a chest rig like the blackhawk I linked you two in the post above yours. Dose not have the same issue. It was designed to be used with or without witch is not the case with most plate carriers/armor carriers. I am not positive if the the eagle is designed the same way as the blackhawk but I'm 99% sure I will look and post a definite yes or no.

[Lone_Ranger]

I decided to go with an Eberlestock Destroyer. I like the way their packs are built, but people seemed to recommend against their packs with gun scabbards built in.

I haven't decided on a vest yet, but I think I'm on the right track with my reasoning. I just finished reading "American Sniper." Chris Kyle describes the equipment he wore on his several deployments. He said, he initially started with what the Navy issued in the way of a plate carrier, with MOLLE/PALS. He says that he switched to a "Rhodesian Rig" for later deployments. The vest had PALS but was separate from the armor.

He says, with the Rhodesian rig, he can unclip the strap and lay the vest out beside him, when he was behind his sniper rifle. Giving him access his ammo, and pouches on the vest. (Not sure what rig he's talking about) He goes on to say, the rig was still attached at the shoulders, and would come with him, and "fall into place" when he got up.

[Hammer27]

He says, with the Rhodesian rig, he can unclip the strap and lay the vest out beside him, when he was behind his sniper rifle. Giving him access his ammo, and pouches on the vest. (Not sure what rig he's talking about) He goes on to say, the rig was still attached at the shoulders, and would come with him, and "fall into place" when he got up.

http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/15338/2030110950104302388S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2030110950104302388dfvvBn)

That's my chest rig (well, one of them) up top. What he meant was that he'd undo the bottom strap (the one that goes around your waist/lower chest depending on height worn) and it would go in front of him as he shot from the prone while providing quick access to pouches. When standing up, it would flop back down and you can run and move for a while until you have time to buckle it back up

[Lone_Ranger]

^ Ahhh! Thanks.

I heard Rhodesian rig, and was thinking more on the lines of a mesh vest, (like the USAF survival vest), with pouches attached. Was trying to think of how that would work, without flipping the back over your head. Then the pouches would be on the wrong side.

[Hammer27]

^ Ahhh! Thanks.

I heard Rhodesian rig, and was thinking more on the lines of a mesh vest, (like the USAF survival vest), with pouches attached. Was trying to think of how that would work, without flipping the back over your head. Then the pouches would be on the wrong side.

Something like this would fulfill both the Rhodesian "flip up" feature and split front "open up" feature.

http://www.tacticaltailor.com/vests-armor/modular/mav-body-2-piece

[Lone_Ranger]

If that rides high enough, to be above the hip belt on the pack, that could be the answer.