View Full Version : So There I Was...
Went in to schedule a colonoscopy the other day:rolleyes:. Was wearing my Brownell's "gimmie" AR-15 builder hat at the time. We spent five minutes discussing the procedure and the next ten talking ARs. I referred him to this site and the tier chart.
Just goes to show that you can conduct PR work anytime, anywhere. :D
Just a Jarhead
12-18-11, 08:40
Glad it worked out for you. But IMHO, you're either very brave or very foolish. Huge gamble and flirting with risk.
Guns, politics, religion. Call me crazy and paranoid, but in this insanely hyper politically correct world we find ourselves in, unless I know exactly the stance of the person on the subject who is going to be poking and prodding my rectum, working on me while I'm anesthetized and can't fight back, ain't no way, no how I'm even broaching the subject. I'm certainly not wearing an AR15 hat to my doctor, on a job interview, in court before a judge just as few examples etc etc. Would be foolish and a lack of good judgment IMHO. Even though I'm ardent 2nd amendment proponent and have a small arsenal of weapons myself, I might start a conversation about your hat but in the end, unless it was a gun company you were interviewing to work at, I wouldn't hire you if you wore it to an interview...lack of good judgment. I couldn't trust you to make good decisions about my company.
I'm being light-hearted about this and serious at the same time. Nothing evokes such strong responses or is more divisive than these subjects. Some are down right hateful if you have a differing view. He might just see something nasty while in there and decide not to tell you. Even Doctors can be evil and are notoriously anti-gun. http://www.google.com/search?q=doctors+are+anti+gun&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en You just lucked out. I distrust most human beings period until proven otherwise! 52 years of living amongst humans has taught me the untrustworthy-dishonest-evil-hateful-fallen creatures they are, or can be.
I'm assuming that you did not know his stance prior. Perhaps my assumption is wrong. And maybe he isn't the one performing the actual colonoscopy. But I would recommend not wearing it to the hospital morning of your procedure.
At the last two shooting courses I went to (two-day Louis Awerbuck and 3-day Jeff Gonzales), there were 3 doctors (including me) out of about 15 shooters. Not sure why anyone should be concerned about discussing firearms with their doctor. As to spilling the beans about being a gun enthusiast to someone about to do your colonoscopy....that's just a very silly thing to worry about. He's going to do that procedure the same regardless of your lifestyle, hobbies, and/or political persuasion.
Yeah, I don't think any doctor you would allow to work on you in the first place would compromise their integrity for your personal gun beliefs.
Now if it's your chef ...... I would talk about that -after dinner- and see what the reactions are. ;)
Just a Jarhead
12-18-11, 11:47
there were 3 doctors
I never said some Doctors weren't anti gun but the overwhelming majority are anti gun. Vehemently so. The anti gun bias of the AAP & AMA is well known. Clearly there are exceptions to every rule though
Some of us operate with a little more with discretion and less naively. There was just a huge issue here in Florida where Pediatricians felt it was their obligation to ask if there were guns in the home. A law was passed this past June forcing them to stop and they vehemently fought it. Instead of the responses "I don't think(you don't think??) there's a problem with telling your doctor", how about just removing it from the equation until you know and not just think? Perhaps the prudent and wise thing to do is just not advertise it. There's no reason to and usually no benefit to do so.
http://www.google.com/search?q=ama+anti+gun%3F&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en
http://www.google.com/search?q=can+doctors+ask+if+there+are+guns+in+the+home&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en
http://www.google.com/search?q=doctors+are+anti+gun&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en
http://www.google.com/search?q=physiciam+anti+gun+group&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en
The American Academy of Physicans opposes private ownership of assault weapons http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/policy/policies/f/firearmlaws.html
So continue to feel free to think it's wise move to wear that ar15 hat to see the good doc! I'll wisely continue to operate with better discretion.
And just wait til Obamacare gets fully implemented. Obamacare could be used to prevent gun ownership. Sen. Max Bauchus " Own a gun lose your health coverage" it's a health risk don't you know. Or pay much higher rates. It's in the bill! http://gunowners.org/a100909.htm
I never said some Doctors weren't anti gun but the overwhelming majority are anti gun. Vehemently so. The anti gun bias of the AAP & AMA is well known. Clearly there are exceptions to every rule though
About 15% of practicing physicians are members of the AMA, so the AMA's stance is hardly representative of physicians. Likewise, the American Academy of Pediatrics represents that one, rather small, specialty. As to the rest, (primarily the AAFP which fought it the hardest) their opposition to the gun discussion law in Florida was about laws that interfere with communication in the doctor-patient relationship, not about gun ownership. I would have opposed that law too.
I think you're operating out of paranoia more than anything else. I can assure you that your statement about the "overwhelming majority" is simply incorrect.
And...your doctor knowing you're a gun owner hurts you how? How does your "discretion" protect you from anything? Your doctor works for you. You hire him in the same way you hire a plumber. Why would you give a crap what he thinks about your firearms hobby?
I've worn all sorts of T-Shirts from firearms or firearm accessory manufacturers to my kid's pediatrician visits. And I've been to almost every one. Not once has it ever caused a problem, or even been discussed.
Being a geek, (and having a firearms related business which gets me access to lots of freebie shirts), I (used to) wear T-Shirts most of the time, and they are all firearms related or tech/computer related. Most of the firearms. (Lately I've been attempting to wear polo shirts more often, though at east one of them says "Blue Force Gear" on it and another two say nothing, but are from VERTX and one is from LA Police Supply ;-) )
Just as the political police organizations are for gun control, so are the political doctor's organizations. That does not mean the rank and file agree, and in any case, it is none of their business.
If the doctor were to ask me, I would ask him if he has a mistress he is hiding from his wife. One stupid question that is none of his business begets another.
Now, if I lived in a Blue State with "communist" tendencies and liberal do-gooders behind every bush, I might be more discreet. But when I went to the Apple Developer Conference in 2007, in San Francisco, I wore "tactical" pants (mostly Sig Tac at the time) every day, my 5-11 HRT boots (most comfortable footwear I have if you are walking a lot), and an eguns.com T-Shirt every day while there.
Just a Jarhead
12-18-11, 12:17
You guys all probably have "protected by Smith & Wesson" or "Beware the owner"(with a gun insignia) or "nothing in here is worth your life" bumper stickers as well. Or see nothing wrong with them. When it's been advised by security experts repeatedly not to do this or advertise in any manner. If you're going to carry, do so discretely.
I'm not paranoid about anything. I just believe in discretion. You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain from being discrete. That's all I'm saying. I never wear gun wear unless I'm at the range. But hey that's me. Have at it. Whatever floats your boat. We all different levels of discretion and opsec.
Jarhead: Neither "brave" nor "foolish" if you noted my location. Once upon a time I lived on the Left Coast where anything gun-related was really countercultural. However it's the other way around here in Wyoming! "PC" has a whole different meaning in these parts.
The new Catholic bishop here is an avid hunter. When he went to visit the new monastery up around Powell the trip photos showed everybody on ATVs. One monk had a bolt action rifle across his lap.
Every once in a while we get tourists with NY plates out here; they have a disoriented look about them.
You guys all probably have "protected by Smith & Wesson" or "Beware the owner"(with a gun insignia) or "nothing in here is worth your life" bumper stickers as well. Or see nothing wrong with them. When it's been advised by security experts repeatedly not to do this or advertise in any manner. If you're going to carry, do so discretely.
Nope I don't have any of those bumper stickers, placards, or similar. And I seriously hope you know the difference between a passive t-shirt that says "brown ells a r15 builder" or "daniel defense" or "tango down" and an "active" bumper sticker warning people to beware.
I'm not paranoid about anything. I just believe in discretion. You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain from being discrete. That's all I'm saying. I never wear gun wear unless I'm at the range. But hey that's me. Have at it. Whatever floats your boat. We all different levels of discretion and opsec.
I don't have any bumper stickers that are gun related on my car/truck, though I will cope to a small Magpul window sticker on both.
I'm not paranoid about anything. I just believe in discretion. You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain from being discrete. That's all I'm saying. I never wear gun wear unless I'm at the range. But hey that's me. Have at it. Whatever floats your boat. We all different levels of discretion and opsec.
I disagree with "nothing to gain."
While I usually don't wear firearm advertisement clothing, I often have firearm subject books for the waiting room. On more than one occasion the doctor has inquired about my reading material.
So far the closest thing I've had to an anti gun doctor was one who asked me about the magazine ban years ago and wanted my feelings about the 10 round magazine limit. I asked him how many chances to protect himself and his family he wanted should they ever be attacked? He told me he really hadn't ever thought of it like that.
On the other end of the spectrum I ended up thanking a very good doctor who was interested in a defensive handgun with a Glock 19 and we now shoot somewhat regularly.
I have found most doctors to be educated people, and most educated people are capable of rational thought and at least considering the positions of others. The only "anti gun" types I have ever met have been ER workers (who weren't doctors yet) who see guns in a very simplistic "cause and effect" equation.
And so far none of them have been able to offer me a realistic reason why I shouldn't be able to shoot back when confronted by those who frequent the ER.
You guys all probably have "protected by Smith & Wesson" or "Beware the owner"(with a gun insignia) or "nothing in here is worth your life" bumper stickers as well.
Nope, not me. In fact, I don't think I even own anything with a gun oriented logo or slogan on it.
montanadave
12-18-11, 19:25
I don't put firearms-related bumper stickers on my truck but it has nothing to do with whether they might provoke a negative cultural or political reaction from someone.
I see them as an advertisement to thieves saying, "Hey, there might be a rifle or a pistol in this truck!"
As for doctors, I watched my orthopedic surgeon shot 4 inch groups at 600 yards with a set-up that probably cost what my truck's worth. And my eye doctor is a 3-gun maniac. His idea of a sentimental anniversary present is his and hers Colt Gold Cups.
Doctors must be hoarding full autos and keeping prices high for your safety.
You guys all probably have "protected by Smith & Wesson" or "Beware the owner"(with a gun insignia) or "nothing in here is worth your life" bumper stickers as well. Or see nothing wrong with them. When it's been advised by security experts repeatedly not to do this or advertise in any manner. If you're going to carry, do so discretely.
I'm not paranoid about anything. I just believe in discretion. You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain from being discrete. That's all I'm saying. I never wear gun wear unless I'm at the range. But hey that's me. Have at it. Whatever floats your boat. We all different levels of discretion and opsec.
You do seem to be a bit paranoid about this. Probably due to the state you live in. I open carry a handgun everyday, everywhere that is legal. This makes it a little hard not to advertise the fact that I may be interested in firearms. Never having a negative experience from it and starting many positive conversations, I'd say you're possibly limiting yourself from potential opportunities, friendships, relationships, etc.
Just a Jarhead
12-19-11, 03:20
Unfortunately, we're increasingly finding ourselves in a world where "big brother" is watching. Obamacare and medial records online, national databases, goverment having access to your medical records via Obamacare etc. A wide range of people have access to your medical records (regardless of HIPPA) including Employers, potential employers as part of the screening process, to Insurance Companies & several Goverment Agencies.
If you don't want something in your medical records to come back and possibly bite you someday, it might be a good practice to start telling your doctor only exactly what he/she needs to know and nothing else. Avoid conversations of any sensitve information. Including guns. Your medical records often contain doctors notes about you and things you reveal to them. You might be surprised to find what's in them.
Some will come back and vehemently argue against this common sense. I swear if someone posted on here the sky was blue, no less than a dozen people would come back and argue otherwise.
The gun control in Obamacare http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2696254/posts
http://gunowners.org/a100909.htm
Suwannee Tim
12-19-11, 04:24
Among my range buddies are a Gastro, a Psychiatrist, a Radiation Oncologist and a Gynecologist. It was I what got the Gastro into shooting. I was horrified when he, after shooting only a year, went over to the Dark Side. Little did I know, years later I would follow him.
PdxMotoxer
12-19-11, 05:26
What i still don't get is WTF wearing a AR15 hat to or during your colonoscopy has to do with a job interview??
And with so many here in the gun industry i'm betting there is a lot worse one could wear on a job interview than a AR15 hat.
I proudly wear my Noveske hat anywhere i want to.
would i wear it to a job interview???
depends on the job.
The great part of being an adult is being allowed to dress yourself.
I'm mostly retired these days so i am lucky to be able to wear what i want and never have been a fan of others telling me what i should or should not wear.
I have found that most people in medicine follow the laws of statistics...about a third are anti-whatever, a third are pro-whatever, and a third just don't care. Life is one big bell curve, and people in medicine are the same.
I work in an ED now where just about all of the males...docs, nurses, RTs...are either in the mil, have been in the mil, or are otherwise gun enthusiasts.
Let's keep from unrolling the tinfoil in this thread.
That being said, I agree with those who advocate privacy unless you are confident in your audience. Why advertise? I don't wear cop stuff, gun stuff, or stuff that's likely to incite controversy. I tell my docs pertinent stuff about my health. I tell the kid at McDonalds pertinent stuff about my fast food order. Sometimes I can tell that they share my interests, sometimes not.
Be careful of judging entire professions from the outside looking in. There are plenty of like-minded good folks in the medical field. Don't let the risk-averse administrative or academic infrastructure tarnish the entire field.
As to the contents of medical records... I've read more than a few. While some providers are more detailed and verbose, if Big Brother is reading them, he's going to largely be disappointed.
Among my range buddies are a Gastro, a Psychiatrist, a Radiation Oncologist and a Gynecologist.
A gastro, shrink, rad-onc, and gyno walk into a gun store... :D
Just a Jarhead
12-19-11, 11:38
That being said, I agree with those who advocate privacy unless you are confident in your audience. Why advertise?
That is all I've been saying since the get-go yet people want to try and read all kinds of stuff into it and make it out I'm paranoid or friggin nuts..LOL. Glenn Beck said it best "arguing with idiots" I feel at times. Absolutely insane. Try and follow the logic here folks:
1). Quite a few people in this country are anti-gun to the point of it's a religion to them and they'e crazed about the subject.
2). You're going to the doctor
3). It's a fact many doctor groups and doctors are rabid anti-gun! I DID NOT SAY ALL DOCTORS. (see the the multitude of links I provided above)
4). You do not know your doctors position on guns at this point
5). It's a gamble wearing gun attire as to whether or not he will appreciate it OR if you will alienate your doctor and silently piss him off and change (even subtly) the nature of your relationship. YOUR health care provider! Your kids health care provider
6). logic dictates that it may be a good idea to avoid wearing gun attire to your doctor since you know #'s 1,2,3,4, 5 to be TRUE! It is an unneccesay gamble to take. Just take the friggin hat or shirt off and be a grown up adult!
7). If you wish to take this gamble your an IDIOT or just don't give a shit about your doctor patient relationship! Your right to wear what you want is more important to you. That's you're right but your still and idiot!
Know your audience is all I friggin said. If you guys don't get this go back to sleep. Your illogical, irrational & there is no hope for you! If you found out your doctor is pro gun somehow other than you first telling your doctor in some fashion that your pro gun then I think that is friggin FABULOUS! Jeeza belew!!!!! Arguing with friggin idiots.
1) there are many rabid pro gunners
2) you are going to doctor
3 ) It's a fact many Doctors are pro gun
4 ) You do not know your doctors stance on guns
5 ) It's a gamble wearing a picture of your wife on your shirt. The doctor may have been through a nasty divorce.
6 ) Doctors and nurses hate motorcycles
7 ) Do NOT under any circumstance go the doctor wearing a Harley Davidson motorcycle shirt with a picture of wife on the front pocket.
Anyone with a half a lick of sense would hire a PI to gather research data on your doctor prior to your visit. Be certain to wear colors he/she likes. When in doubt wear a plain white shirt with button down color. Try not to speak about marriage, guns, motorcycles, cigarettes, politics, religion, education, sports, the weather.... in fact, it is best to not speak at all. After all, they are the doctor not you. They know what you need. You are merely there to stroke their egos.
Sorry JaJH, I couldn't resist. I know where you are coming from but really, do you honestly think a doctor would risk their career because you wore a Glock shirt. If so.... you really, really need a new doctor.
If you got shot while riding your motorcycle and they took you to a rabid anti-gun, anti-motorcycle doctor. Do you think he would just let you die?
If you can't talk to your doctor about your life, you need a new doctor. If you are in a private conversation with someone that might possibly hold your life in his/her hands and you can't even tell them you like guns for fear of what they might do to you.... Don't call us idiots.
We get where you are coming from but no reason to insult us because we feel the context does not warrant your cautious nature.
The difference between you and Glen Beck is that his book offers proof to the "the idiots". Do you actually know of doctors harming patients upon finding they were pro gun?
Like I said, I wouldn't tell my chef, nor the occupy wall street types, but my doctor? Whole different world.
QuietShootr
12-19-11, 12:45
Unfortunately, we're increasingly finding ourselves in a world where "big brother" is watching. Obamacare and medial records online, national databases, goverment having access to your medical records via Obamacare etc. A wide range of people have access to your medical records (regardless of HIPPA) including Employers, potential employers as part of the screening process, to Insurance Companies & several Goverment Agencies.
If you don't want something in your medical records to come back and possibly bite you someday, it might be a good practice to start telling your doctor only exactly what he/she needs to know and nothing else. Avoid conversations of any sensitve information. Including guns. Your medical records often contain doctors notes about you and things you reveal to them. You might be surprised to find what's in them.
Some will come back and vehemently argue against this common sense. I swear if someone posted on here the sky was blue, no less than a dozen people would come back and argue otherwise.
The gun control in Obamacare http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2696254/posts
http://gunowners.org/a100909.htm
This guy is right. Dismiss his advice at your own peril.
Most of us believe that an educated doctor will be professional in his conduct, and if he is not, we go choose another doctor.
Unless you live in a stupid state, there is no harm in wearing a manufacturers shirt (from a gun company) to the doctor. If there is, why are you going to an unprofessional doctor for such important things?
Now, if you are worried about people ripping you off or whatnot, that is a different matter and may be a reason to not wear such shirts.
---
Just a Jarhead
12-19-11, 14:01
The difference between you and Glen Beck is that his book offers proof to the "the idiots". Do you actually know of doctors harming patients upon finding they were pro gun?
Yes! Patients in Florida were being harassed by Doctors. The Florida case and why the law was passed June 2011 This was not an isolated case. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/health/policy/09guns.html
(also see the concerted sinister efforts of the various Dr. Associations below written by an M.D. Written in 1999 but we saw it happening in Florida up until June of this year.
"There’s one customary question, though, that I’m no longer allowed to ask. In June, Gov. Rick Scott signed a law barring Florida doctors from routinely asking patients if they own a gun. The law also authorizes patients to report doctors for “unnecessarily harassing” them about gun ownership and makes it illegal to routinely document firearm ownership information in a patient’s medical record. (Which they were doing apparently, added by jarhead) Other state legislatures have considered similar proposals, but Florida is the first to enact such a law.
Written by a Doctor, Timothy Wheeler, M.D. http://www.jpands.org/hacienda/article14.html
"American families may soon find themselves in this scenario. Social activists are taking their war on gun ownership to a new battleground: the doctor's office.(1) The American Medical Association (AMA)(2), American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)(3), and American College of Physicians (ACP)(4) are urging doctors to probe their patients about guns in their homes. They profess concern for patient safety. But their ulterior motive is a political prejudice against guns and gun owners. And that places their interventions into the area of unethical physician conduct called boundary violations."
Most of us believe that an educated doctor will be professional in his conduct, and if he is not, we go choose another doctor.
Unless you live in a stupid state, there is no harm in wearing a manufacturers shirt (from a gun company) to the doctor. If there is, why are you going to an unprofessional doctor for such important things?
Now, if you are worried about people ripping you off or whatnot, that is a different matter and may be a reason to not wear such shirts.
---
Yep, there are a few other things to consider.
If a doctor IS anti gun, I want to KNOW so I can stop giving him my money. It's really easy to say you were kidding about gun ownership, what's he gonna do? Document your Glock t shirt? What if you tell the doctor you are a part time astronaut? Is he gonna document your participation in the space program?
In my area there are almost as many doctors as lawyers, if you have one you don't like...get another. Let them have an exclusive clientele of liberals who will sue them over any minor incident.
And finally...I just don't want to live my life like that. While I don't feel compelled to go out the door with a Glock hat, MP5 t shirt and official ar15.com pants...I also don't feel the need to hide anything. When you hide what you believe, many will suggest that is because even you know it is somehow "wrong."
Just a Jarhead
12-19-11, 14:22
Most of us believe that an educated doctor will be professional in his conduct, and if he is not, we go choose another doctor.
Unless you live in a stupid state, there is no harm in wearing a manufacturers shirt (from a gun company) to the doctor. If there is, why are you going to an unprofessional doctor for such important things?
Now, if you are worried about people ripping you off or whatnot, that is a different matter and may be a reason to not wear such shirts.
---
Maybe you just get a nice pretty note in your medical records and never know it. That's reason enough not to wear your bubba shirt to the doctor. Only a stubborn immature bubba would feel the need to wear it to the doctors office. There's plenty of places that are appropriate for gun wear. Put on a big boy shirt to see the doctor. You'll get a little more respect that way from him as well. Shows you have a little respect for the Doctor as well. We all make a judgement calls about someone in the first 3 seconds ofmeeting them, good or bad. Who ever said you can't judge a book by it's cover didn't know what the hell they were talking about. We all do it, including Doctors. Article's have been written on how you dress to see the doctor and the level of respect they have for you and your questions. I've read these articles written by Doctors. How you dress to see the doctor says alot about you and the respect you garner from them. You may choose to believe this or not. That's up to you. I always dress professionally, business casual to see a Doctor. Maybe a nice collared shirt or polo shirt with a collar. Take the t-shirt off. Clean up a bit and put some clean holeless underwear on while you're at it. I guess between my parents and the Marine Corps I was taught differently. I see not everyone was taught the same. I can just see this is gonna be another " I told ya so" moment if god forbid Obamacare gets fully implemented.
@JaHH, I asked if you knew a doctor that had harmed someone after finding they were pro gun. You replied "Yes!" but your links do not show this. Those are privacy issues and not facts of doctors intentionally doing harm.
That is the core ethic of every doctor. Do no harm.
Your privacy issues and all that are fine but really, doctors are just not going to behave like that. They may hate guns but they value their lively hood and profession. You can blame the lawyers for them asking questions but it's just a CYA move most likely brought about by their mal-pratice insurance carriers.
Maybe you just get a nice pretty note in your medical records and never know it. That's reason enough not to wear your bubba shirt to the doctor. Only a stubborn immature bubba would feel the need to wear it to the doctors office. There's plenty of places that are appropriate for gun wear. Put on a big boy shirt to see the doctor. You'll get a little more respect that way from him as well. Shows you have a little respect for the Doctor as well. We all make a judgement calls about someone in the first 3 seconds ofmeeting them, good or bad. Who ever said you can't judge a book by it's cover didn't know what the hell they were talking about. We all do it, including Doctors. Article's have been written on how you dress to see the doctor and the level of respect they have for you and your questions. I've read these articles written by Doctors. How you dress to see the doctor says alot about you and the respect you garner from them. You may choose to believe this or not. That's up to you. I always dress professionally, business casual to see a Doctor. Maybe a nice collared shirt or polo shirt with a collar. Take the t-shirt off. Clean up a bit and put some clean holeless underwear on while you're at it. I guess between my parents and the Marine Corps I was taught differently. I see not everyone was taught the same. I can just see this is gonna be another " I told ya so" moment if god forbid Obamacare gets fully implemented.
I actually agree with some of this. Not the paranoia about wearing a gun-branded hat or T-shirt to the doctor's office...the concept that that might find its way into the medical record is just silly. But I do agree that the government ultimately wants access to your medical records. Make no mistake, the government, certainly under the current administration, wants to be in control of your healthcare. They want to know about your blood pressure, your diabetes, your medications. This is the ultimate thrust behind their electronic health record initiative, for example (do a google search on "meaningful use". You should be far more worried about that global concept than about one little aspect of your lifestyle - your gun ownership. Let's not lose sight of the forest by examining individual trees too closely. The government under Obama believes that the government should be in charge of something as important (and as expensive) as your healthcare - it shouldn't be left to just being between the doctor and his patient.
Maybe you just get a nice pretty note in your medical records and never know it. That's reason enough not to wear your bubba shirt to the doctor. Only a stubborn immature bubba would feel the need to wear it to the doctors office. There's plenty of places that are appropriate for gun wear. Put on a big boy shirt to see the doctor. You'll get a little more respect that way from him as well. Shows you have a little respect for the Doctor as well. We all make a judgement calls about someone in the first 3 seconds ofmeeting them, good or bad. Who ever said you can't judge a book by it's cover didn't know what the hell they were talking about. We all do it, including Doctors. Article's have been written on how you dress to see the doctor and the level of respect they have for you and your questions. I've read these articles written by Doctors. How you dress to see the doctor says alot about you and the respect you garner from them. You may choose to believe this or not. That's up to you. I always dress professionally, business casual to see a Doctor. Maybe a nice collared shirt or polo shirt with a collar. Take the t-shirt off. Clean up a bit and put some clean holeless underwear on while you're at it. I guess between my parents and the Marine Corps I was taught differently. I see not everyone was taught the same. I can just see this is gonna be another " I told ya so" moment if god forbid Obamacare gets fully implemented.
You talk of respect and yet at the same time you seem to be inferring that chadbag is a Bubba.
I don't know the guy, but from what I do know he hardly qualifies.
Like most doctors, I tend to judge people by their actions and mannerisms rather than their clothes. I've seen well dressed reprehensible people before, their attire doesn't make them any more respectable.
By the same token if you take a decent man and put him in jeans and a t shirt he doesn't lose any respect points from me. Course maybe I just judge people by different criteria than others.
Now I know what you are trying to say. There is a time and place thing at work. For example it drives me nuts to see people in shorts and flip flops on a plane. I remember when you put on your better clothes to fly because it wasn't a bus. Course those days are long gone. By while I may be dismayed by beach attire on an airplane, I'll still reserve my final judgement until after I get to know somebody.
I should also point out that in S. Florida we mostly dress for the weather. If you put on a dress shirt and tie in August and run a few errands you will be sweat soaked and probably stink. I'd rather have a t shirt on than have other people smelling me.
Suwannee Tim
12-19-11, 20:14
.....it drives me nuts to see people in shorts and flip flops on a plane.....
It drives me nuts to see flip flops on the range. I keep hoping to see one catch some hot brass between the toes. So far, no joy. I did have a friend show up to for me to do some welding on his trailer wearing flip flops. I had to get my wife to help on that job. She has a pair of steel toe electrical hazard boots, as should all folks not in the leisure class.
When I smoked I had a habit of pulling the fire of a cigarette and storing the remainder for later smoking. Of course you can't exactly put the fire in your pocket so I would always drop it on the ground. One windy day I did so only to see some nice looking female catch the fire in one of her sandals.:eek:
I used to chew tobacco. My buddy and I went to see Apocalypse Now. I got a giant drink, drained it then began filling the cup with tobacco spit. Shortly before the movie ended I accidentally knocked the cup over and of course the juice flowed down the sloped floor. Honest, it was an accident. At movie's end everyone got up to leave and some nice looking young lady in a white sun dress sipped and fell, several times in the tobacco juice. It seemed pretty funny at the time. It doesn't seem so funny now.
I don't chew or smoke anymore. Good thing. Good way to get you ass beat.
Maybe you just get a nice pretty note in your medical records and never know it.
Well, being a man, I don't go to the doctor much, unless it really really hurts.
Though I did break my ankle a year ago and have to go a few times since it really really hurt. They even operated on it.
But I seriously doubt the orthopedic surgeon who saw me and operated on my was offended by a Daniel Defense or Blue Force Gear T-Shirts, nor my Apple T-Shirts. I seriously doubt he put anything in the medical records about it either. If he did, and someone in the government saw it, they would not learn anything they don't already know. Namely Mr. Chadbag owns a few firearms. (ETA: in fact the surgeon is former Army SF I learned later)
And my kids' pediatrician, where I have worn lots of different shirts relating to firearms (including my awesome eguns.com shirt I had made a while back :-) ) doesn't seem to care one way or the other, and he has great respect for me and my wife based on my many interactions with him over 2 kids worth of visits over the last almost 9 years (and ongoing -- continuing on many more years as our 3 year old gets older). He spends lots of time talking with us, remembers details even months later, shares his vacation stories, etc.
I am not at all worried about the issue.
That's reason enough not to wear your bubba shirt
I don't wear bubba shirts. Nice Daniel Defense and Blue Force Gear T-Shirts are not "bubba" shirts. Neither are Apple T-Shirts referring to Apple Developers Conference or programming.
Maybe a "Bud" T-Shirt or something like that may be a "bubba" shirt, but I wouldn't know.
to the doctor. Only a stubborn immature bubba would feel the need to wear it to the doctors office.
I could say a few things about stubborn pricks at this point but will refrain.
There's plenty of places that are appropriate for gun wear.
Yep, I only wear my chest rig and BFG battle belt at the range or out in the desert or at a class.
A firearms manufacturer related T-Shirt is not "gun wear."
Put on a big boy shirt to see the doctor.
My T-Shirts are big boy wear -- I unfortunately weigh 245 or so and wear XL! :sarcastic:
You'll get a little more respect that way from him as well. Shows you have a little respect for the Doctor as well.
With day to day interactions, respect is shown through word/language and actions.
I am not going to see the Pope, the president, or visiting a church, or formal restaurant or anything.
We all make a judgement calls about someone in the first 3 seconds ofmeeting them, good or bad. Who ever said you can't judge a book by it's cover didn't know what the hell they were talking about. We all do it, including Doctors. Article's have been written on how you dress to see the doctor and the level of respect they have for you and your questions. I've read these articles written by Doctors. How you dress to see the doctor says alot about you and the respect you garner from them. You may choose to believe this or not. That's up to you. I always dress professionally, business casual to see a Doctor. Maybe a nice collared shirt or polo shirt with a collar. Take the t-shirt off. Clean up a bit and put some clean holeless underwear on while you're at it. I guess between my parents and the Marine Corps I was taught differently. I see not everyone was taught the same. I can just see this is gonna be another " I told ya so" moment if god forbid Obamacare gets fully implemented.
Like I said, in terms of firearms use, they won't learn any more than they already know about me and firearms, if the doctor were to make a note in my medical files.
I do not dress different when visiting the doctor. However, I do advise them that I am armed before I remove my shirt.
Just as the political police organizations are for gun control, so are the political doctor's organizations. That does not mean the rank and file agree, and in any case, it is none of their business.
As you allude to, those are generally the organizations that represent management level officials...IACP etc. They have pledged their patronage largely to big city liberal city councils and mayors.
The organizations that represent rank and file do not generally swing like that.
Just a Jarhead
12-20-11, 03:06
@JaHH, I asked if you knew a doctor that had harmed someone after finding they were pro gun. You replied "Yes!" but your links do not show this. Those are privacy issues and not facts of doctors intentionally doing harm.
That is the core ethic of every doctor. Do no harm.
Your privacy issues and all that are fine but really, doctors are just not going to behave like that. They may hate guns but they value their lively hood and profession. You can blame the lawyers for them asking questions but it's just a CYA move most likely brought about by their mal-pratice insurance carriers.
Wrong! Not about communication. They can continue to ask about lifestyle out the wazoo, HIV etc etc. almost any question BUT guns. Sex is kind of touchy too. But guns are off limits and the ONE question they absolutely can not ask. I think the article started off stating that. It was about asking about GUNS and nothing else.
The article stated this woman was asked to leave the office when she refused to answer the question. And doctors were routinely making notes about guns in medical records. Yes that's harm.
You talk of respect and yet at the same time you seem to be inferring that chadbag is a Bubba.
My apology to Chad, I wasn't referring to Chadbag being a bubba but the shirt and the wearing it to a doctors office is a bubba move IMHO. But it's obvious we all have different standards. I was using it as an example. Nothing more. Nothing screams bubba more than gun wear at church, (just another example and surely a bubba move. Same as a doctors office IMHO) except maybe fatigues and a white wife beater tank top. Now I know alot of you wouldn't step inside a church for fear of being insinerated instantly or spontaneouly combusting (just messin, don't get your panties in a wad here ladies) but is gun wear approriate in church to you?(those of you that go to church). If yes do you not have any standards? I'm just trying to gauge your thinking here if there is anywhere where gun wear is not appropriate.
Would you recommend someone wear it to court before a judge if facing a prison sentence? I suspect not due to the fact the Judge may not appreciate it and it might not go in your favor. Are you then telling me that this highly educated, intelligent judge, upholder of our laws thinking could be swayed or influenced just buy what someone is wearing? Would any sane person take the chance or unneccessary risk? Same principle. And if someone, anyone says no problem to wearing it to court they are a fool and an ass clown and should be barred from every having children. AT 52 I'm either old school or the world is seriously lacking in common sense these days.
the concept that that might find its way into the medical record is just silly.
Regardlesss of what you THINK....the reality is...It was happening. I know, silly. So much so a law had to be passed & signed by the Gov. to stop it! Those highly educated doctors and their professionalism....geeez. Who woulda thunk it? I just don't get why you guys don't get the common sense of this. There really shouldn't be this huge of a disagreement on this. I find it amazing. The facts are the facts. Logic is logic. Would it kill you to just say "Jarhead has a good point"..LOL "maybe he is right?" Noooo we gotta beat this thing 12 ways from Sunday...LOL
The article stated this woman was asked to leave the office when she refused to answer the question. And doctors were routinely making notes about guns in medical records. Yes that's harm.
Seems a far bit detached from your initial concept of being unable to defend yourself from your doctor.
Oh well.... I guess we can all rest assured our secrets are safe on Internet forums.
montanadave
12-20-11, 07:59
Wrong! Not about communication. They can continue to ask about lifestyle out the wazoo, HIV etc etc. almost any question BUT guns. Sex is kind of touchy too. But guns are off limits and the ONE question they absolutely can not ask. I think the article started off stating that. It was about asking about GUNS and nothing else.
And this is where the gun-rights folks went off the rails. To restrict a physician or any other health care professional from EVER asking about the presence of firearms in the home is asinine.
If I have a client suffering from severe depression with suicidal ideation or experiencing delusional thoughts and do not ask whether they have access to firearms, I am being negligent in providing care. I have advised folks under these conditions to have a family member or friend remove the firearms from the client's home for safekeeping and would not hesitate to do it again. And I'll tell the family members the same. If they don't like, they're free to seek care somewhere else. That's certainly every client's right.
Like most laws enacted by our government, they start out with the reasonable intention of protecting people's rights or "doing good" and end up trying to swat a fly with a ****in' sledgehammer. Move this discussion over to the thread about "unintended consequences."
Just a Jarhead
12-20-11, 08:07
And this is where the gun-rights folks went off the rails. To restrict a physician or any other health care professional from EVER asking about the presence of firearms in the home is asinine.
If I have a client suffering from severe depression with suicidal ideation or experiencing delusional thoughts and do not ask whether they have access to firearms, I am being negligent in providing care. I have advised folks under these conditions to have a family member or friend remove the firearms from the client's home for safekeeping and would not hesitate to do it again. And I'll tell the family members the same. If they don't like, they're free to seek care somewhere else. That's certainly every client's right.
Like most laws enacted by our government, they start out with the reasonable intention of protecting people's rights or "doing good" and end up trying to swat a fly with a ****in' sledgehammer. Move this discussion over to the thread about "unintended consequences."
If they (doctors) didn't so aggressively abuse asking about guns, only asking in the most dire circumstances, like maybe as you mention, it wouldn't have been a problem most likely. That wasn't their intent as the letter from Doctor Wheeler pointed out. It was abuse and a political agenda...period! So who was using a sledgehammer to kill a fly??? The doctors screwed up plain and simple. Let's correctly place the blame where it belongs and not twist the facts.
montanadave
12-20-11, 08:23
If they (doctors) didn't so aggressively abuse asking about guns, only asking in the most dire circumstances, like maybe as you mention, it wouldn't have been a problem most likely. That wasn't their intent as the letter from Doctor Wheeler pointed out. It was abuse and a political agenda...period! So who was using a sledgehammer to kill a fly??? The doctors screwed up plain and simple. Let's correctly place the blame where it belongs and not twist the facts.
From the letter by Dr. Wheeler (the link to which you posted):
"In a recent study 91 percent of surveyed doctors felt that firearm violence is a public health issue. But only 3 percent said they frequently talk to patients about firearms in the home."
Doesn't seem to have been much of a problem. :rolleyes:
And this is where the gun-rights folks went off the rails. To restrict a physician or any other health care professional from EVER asking about the presence of firearms in the home is asinine.
If I have a client suffering from severe depression with suicidal ideation or experiencing delusional thoughts and do not ask whether they have access to firearms, I am being negligent in providing care. I have advised folks under these conditions to have a family member or friend remove the firearms from the client's home for safekeeping and would not hesitate to do it again. And I'll tell the family members the same. If they don't like, they're free to seek care somewhere else. That's certainly every client's right.
I have not read the law, but I seriously doubt that it prevents you from giving the advice. You don't have to ask about firearms to give that sort of advice.
Just say: "And if you have any firearms, you should have a relative or trustworthy friend take them for a while." Or whatever language is appropriate. The point is, you don't have to ask whether they have them in the first place to give this sort of advice.
On a somewhat related note:
Do you want to see what doctors write about you? Apparently, you do - latimes.com
http://www.latimes.com/health/boostershots/la-heb-doctors-notes-20111219,0,6510052.story?track=lat-pick
---
And in the above article they give a link which supposedly gives a state by state list of laws pertaining to your right to inspect your medical records...
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montanadave
12-20-11, 12:03
I have not read the law, but I seriously doubt that it prevents you from giving the advice. You don't have to ask about firearms to give that sort of advice.
Just say: "And if you have any firearms, you should have a relative or trustworthy friend take them for a while." Or whatever language is appropriate. The point is, you don't have to ask whether they have them in the first place to give this sort of advice.
Well, sure, there you go again. Bein' all reasonable and whatnot. :laugh:
Not trying to belabor the point or extend the argument, but it has been my experience that the more specific the instruction or recommendation, the more likely a patient/client is to actually hear what you are saying and give that suggestion proper consideration.
When you speak in generalities, people are quick to nod agreement and then give it the brush off. Saying "It might be a good idea to have a relative remove any firearms from the home for the time being" doesn't have quite the same impact as saying, "I want you to go home this afternoon, call your brother, and ask him to come over and take that Glock to his house until you are feeling safe."
I understand the concerns people have regarding privacy issues, particularly with respect to sensitive issues. But I also feel this is a situation where folks with a political agenda seized on a few isolated incidents or ill-advised comments by physicians to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Obviously there are folks who feel very passionately about this particular issue and are willing to go to the mattresses. I'll save my ire for more substantive (at least in my opinion) issues.
Just a Jarhead
12-20-11, 12:05
From the letter by Dr. Wheeler (the link to which you posted):
"In a recent study 91 percent of surveyed doctors felt that firearm violence is a public health issue. But only 3 percent said they frequently talk to patients about firearms in the home."
Doesn't seem to have been much of a problem. :rolleyes:
Remember that report goes back to 1999,12 years ago when the program was just kicking into high gear. Also, that's a national percentage when the actual percentage in Florida could be much higher, liberal New York & California higher yet while it may be low in Montana, Utah Wyoming etc. Going with your 3%
-Only 3% of the Colonist were willing to take up arms against the British and won the Revolutionary War.
-All armed Forces of the U.S. combined are only .5% of the U.S. population
-1.5 billion Muslims in the world. If only 3% joined AlQaeda that would be 45 million.
3% can be a devastating force. Wars are fought & won with 3% or less.
-There are approx. 661,400 doctors in the U.S.
-3% =19,842 harassing Doctors
-397 harassing doctors per state
-If they each only harassed 1 person per week that would be 1,031,784 people harassed in 1 year.
Sounds like a huge problem to me.
Also the new law provides an exemption if the question is “relevant to the patient’s medical care or safety,” although that is not defined.
Well, sure, there you go again. Bein' all reasonable and whatnot. :laugh:
Not trying to belabor the point or extend the argument, but it has been my experience that the more specific the instruction or recommendation, the more likely a patient/client is to actually hear what you are saying and give that suggestion proper consideration.
When you speak in generalities, people are quick to nod agreement and then give it the brush off. Saying "It might be a good idea to have a relative remove any firearms from the home for the time being" doesn't have quite the same impact as saying, "I want you to go home this afternoon, call your brother, and ask him to come over and take that Glock to his house until you are feeling safe."
I understand the concerns people have regarding privacy issues, particularly with respect to sensitive issues. But I also feel this is a situation where folks with a political agenda seized on a few isolated incidents or ill-advised comments by physicians to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Obviously there are folks who feel very passionately about this particular issue and are willing to go to the mattresses. I'll save my ire for more substantive (at least in my opinion) issues.
Well, you can always say:
"Fred [or whatever], I want you to go home and have your brother Ernie come over and pick up your guns until you are feeling better" or something similar. Again, you don't need to ask. If he says he doesn't have any guns, then you can give him an "attaboy" for being so quick! Or some other appropriate joke or whatever. And that is almost as specific as telling him to get rid of the Glock. And maybe even better, because he may have more than the Glock that you found out about...
But if you want to blame someone, I would not blame the politicians, who were "forced" to counteract the political aims and nosiness of the medical associations in the first place. They were re-acting. Blame goes on the medical associations who were pushing doctors to ask in the first place.
montanadave
12-20-11, 13:08
Also the new law provides an exemption if the question is “relevant to the patient’s medical care or safety,” although that is not defined.
So it's a law with a loophole which is undefined. :rolleyes:
That was, and remains, my point. It's political grandstanding by folks with an agenda to toss out a little red meat to the base and the end result is another shitty, unenforceable law on the books.
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