The Kim Jong Il is dead & Korean War thread...

[Caeser25]

CNN reporting Kim Jong Il is dead.

[kwelz]

Pretty sure it can only go down hill from here since his son is even more bat shit insane than he is.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/north-korea-supreme-leader-kim-jong-il-died-15185454#.Tu6rpkodBi8

[variablebinary]

Pretty sure it can only go down hill from here since his son is even more bat shit insane than he is.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/north-korea-supreme-leader-kim-jong-il-died-15185454#.Tu6rpkodBi8

Get ready for some saber rattling and aggressive movements to show strength during a period of transition.

[Irish]

Very interesting times ahead.

[SteyrAUG]

At this point the South needs to violate the armistice.

[Caeser25]

I remember reading about the son that was to take over is about on the same level as Uday and Qusay.......except with nukes. How's their ballistic missile program been doing?

Is it me or has our campaigner in chief gone missing this weekend? No soundbytes after Congress' session? Or haven't I had the news on much?

[kwelz]

Just because.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W5w691w0jE

[decodeddiesel]

At this point the South needs to violate the armistice.

I agree, the time to strike is while the country is destabilized by the loss.

[Safetyhit]

I hope the fat little co*ksucker is being slowly roasted like a pig in his miserable afterlife.

[Mauser KAR98K]

Someone stomp the cockroach before it gets in the space ship.

Even Awric Bawin couldn't save him.

[thopkins22]

Kim Jong Il is dead. He must have been very ill. ;)

Kim Jong threw the illest parties ever.

I could go on for days....

I can't stop watching this.
North Korea Party Rock Anthem ft. Kim Jong Il.
http://youtu.be/VJNBfBr-OGU

On a serious note, The Brilliant Master of XXXX has left...unfortunately for us, the people that were in charge while he was alive still are. His son is but a figurehead like every dictator.

[lamarbrog]

Good riddance.

I wish we had money, it would be sweet to wipe out the Norks and end that nonsense once and for all.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Kim Jong Il is dead. He must have been very ill. ;)

Kim Jong threw the illest parties ever.

I could go on for days....

I can't stop watching this.
North Korea Party Rock Anthem ft. Kim Jong Il.
http://youtu.be/VJNBfBr-OGU

On a serious note, The Brilliant Master of XXXX has left...unfortunately for us, the people that were in charge while he was alive still are. His son is but a figurehead like every dictator.

Now that is funny.

Crazy is dead, long live the new crazy.....

Obama won't do anything, probably give them some grain or something.

"I lost my Dad too...."

[chadbag]

NK Top Gun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nKuoNhihh4&feature=related

[Moose-Knuckle]

Kim Jong-un, his youngest is set to run the show since his older sons; a peter puffer and the other a perpetual toddler.

[Magic_Salad0892]

Oh God. Afghanistan. Iraq. Africa. Now ****in' Korea.

I hope to God, that Americans aren't going to **** with them right now.

However... supporting SK would be fine. :D

[30 cal slut]

So rong, dickhead.

[VooDoo6Actual]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TEvacFETvM&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL83AE7E00EC8F3B32

So wrong drickhead....

[montanadave]

Many, if not most, economists anticipate a massive shift of wealth towards the nations of the Pacific Rim during this century. China certainly hopes to play a central role in that scenario. And the only real fly in the ointment is a failed nuclear state in North Korea.

So would it be too much to ask for China to police their own backyard and clean up the ****ing cesspool that North Korea has become?

Yeah, that's what I figured. :rolleyes:

[30 cal slut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwoSFQb5HVk&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[Irish]

NK already testing short range missiles. http://news.yahoo.com/n-korea-test-fires-short-range-missile-report-130006284.html

[30 cal slut]

Kim Jong Il, e-harmony commercial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHkWv1vHtHk

[CarlosDJackal]

"I so ronrey..." Now maybe the NK people can get some food!! :moil:

[chadbag]

He lives!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4HjtzuKu2g&feature=related



And will come to your kids b-day parties.

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[Irish]

All joking aside there is a very real potential for shit to go sideways in that region. http://www.vancouversun.com/news/North+Korea+mourns+Jong+Great+Successor/5882167/story.html


But there was uncertainty about how much support the third generation of the North's ruling dynasty has among the ruling elite, especially in the military, and concern he might need a military show of strength to help establish his credentials.


"Kim Jong-un is a pale reflection of his father and grandfather. He has not had the decades of grooming and securing of a power base that Jong-il enjoyed before assuming control from his father," said Bruce Klingner, an Asia policy analyst at the Heritage Foundation in Washington.


"(He) may feel it necessary in the future to precipitate a crisis to prove his mettle to other senior leaders or deflect attention from the regime's failings."

[Jer]

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy123/jordanls19/kimongok.jpg

http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd241324/kim.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3634/3565759415_f5b0beed7e_z.jpg?zz=1

http://youtu.be/jdug6yHJB40

....Too soon?

[chadbag]

In Kim’s Death, an Extensive Intelligence Failure

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/20/world/asia/in-detecting-kim-jong-il-death-a-gobal-intelligence-failure.html?google_editors_picks=true



---

[Moose-Knuckle]

North Koreans weeping hysterically over the death of Kim Jong-il

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSWN6Qj98Iw&feature=g-logo&context=G2b9fbb8FOAAAAAAADAA


What a bunch of ****ing lemmings, he wasn't Elvis after all. :p

[Irish]

There are many reports stating that he's been dead for quite some time.

http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20111220000910

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jeremywarner/100007671/is-kim-jong-il-still-alive-at-all/

http://www.japantoday.com/category/kuchikomi/view/north-koreas-kim-died-in-2003-and-was-replaced-by-lookalike-says-waseda-profesor

[Magic_Salad0892]

There are many reports stating that he's been dead for quite some time.

http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20111220000910

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jeremywarner/100007671/is-kim-jong-il-still-alive-at-all/

http://www.japantoday.com/category/kuchikomi/view/north-koreas-kim-died-in-2003-and-was-replaced-by-lookalike-says-waseda-profesor

I head it was 51 hours.

... Until the Korean government found out it's own leader died?...

[lamarbrog]

North Koreans weeping hysterically over the death of Kim Jong-il

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSWN6Qj98Iw&feature=g-logo&context=G2b9fbb8FOAAAAAAADAA


What a bunch of ****ing lemmings, he wasn't Elvis after all. :p

Those poor, deprived, brainwashed shells of human beings... Mourning over the death of their oppressor.

[Belmont31R]

North Koreans weeping hysterically over the death of Kim Jong-il

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSWN6Qj98Iw&feature=g-logo&context=G2b9fbb8FOAAAAAAADAA


What a bunch of ****ing lemmings, he wasn't Elvis after all. :p




These people live in a vacuum from birth til death and they do not know any better. I am sure the minders also give plenty of incentive. They did the same shit after the father died.



Its really no different than if you plopped someone out of the 1600's and put them in a wal mart or modern grocery store. Ive read a few accounts of NORK defectors or even Russians who came here and thought our normal stores were propaganda setup by the CIA to deceive them.


I recommend people watch the vice.com videos. They have one where they got an official tour of NORK and one where they went to Siberia where the Russians allow them to setup mock NORK villages, and they import NORK workers there to do logging. Most of them think they are still in NORK and they have propaganda all over the place.


The day after I graduated HS my best friend and I went to Europe for a month, and on the way back while I was waiting to be picked up noticed a couple people who looked utterly lost. Turns out they were here from Russia on some sort of work program through Sea World were supposed to be going to San Diego. We were at LAX and they had no way to get anywhere. My family ended up taking them to our house for the night and contacted their "contact" here to get them squared away. You could just tell they were in shock as we were driving to our house and once they saw how a random person lived. NORK is far worse than Russia and the people are completely cut off from the rest of the world.


I want to see the NORK government fail, and ROK take over but its going to be like reuniting people from the stone age into modern civilization for the first time. I don't really have any ill will towards the NORK people as they simply don't know any better. If anything its an example of why I oppose government control and viewing politicians as celebrities or above the average man. Its a very dangerous thing to do and blinds people to whats really happening.

[Moose-Knuckle]

These people live in a vacuum from birth til death and they do not know any better. I am sure the minders also give plenty of incentive. They did the same shit after the father died.



Its really no different than if you plopped someone out of the 1600's and put them in a wal mart or modern grocery store. Ive read a few accounts of NORK defectors or even Russians who came here and thought our normal stores were propaganda setup by the CIA to deceive them.


I recommend people watch the vice.com videos. They have one where they got an official tour of NORK and one where they went to Siberia where the Russians allow them to setup mock NORK villages, and they import NORK workers there to do logging. Most of them think they are still in NORK and they have propaganda all over the place.


The day after I graduated HS my best friend and I went to Europe for a month, and on the way back while I was waiting to be picked up noticed a couple people who looked utterly lost. Turns out they were here from Russia on some sort of work program through Sea World were supposed to be going to San Diego. We were at LAX and they had no way to get anywhere. My family ended up taking them to our house for the night and contacted their "contact" here to get them squared away. You could just tell they were in shock as we were driving to our house and once they saw how a random person lived. NORK is far worse than Russia and the people are completely cut off from the rest of the world.


I want to see the NORK government fail, and ROK take over but its going to be like reuniting people from the stone age into modern civilization for the first time. I don't really have any ill will towards the NORK people as they simply don't know any better. If anything its an example of why I oppose government control and viewing politicians as celebrities or above the average man. Its a very dangerous thing to do and blinds people to whats really happening.

It actually looks like staged propaganda. We all know they were forced too have this "reaction" for the cameras.

I hear what you are saying, the average American has been exposed to their fair share of brainwashing. Anything outside the "norm" for them and throw out the tinfoil card. These are the same people who say "it won't happen here". Time and again history repeats. Americans are currently in the pot and it's about to come to a rolling boil.

The people of NORK are a prime example of what the power brokers want a world citizen to be; uneducated, uninformed, obedient livestock.

[decodeddiesel]

What a bunch of ****ing lemmings, he wasn't Elvis after all. :p

No, he was God to them.

[trinydex]

Good riddance.

I wish we had money, it would be sweet to wipe out the Norks and end that nonsense once and for all.

wipe out all of them?


Those poor, deprived, brainwashed shells of human beings... Mourning over the death of their oppressor.

hate to be quoting you so much... but do you really think they all believe kji is wonderful? after all in a propaganda state, this is one of the few videos that is allowed to be seen by anyone... what makes yo think it's at all representative of the north korean sentiment towards their leader and not just another piece of propaganda for all to see?

i feel like there's a great amount of hostility towards the north korean population in this thread and i feel like it has to be a misunderstanding. the north korean populace are victims of their government.

if anyone wants insight into what north korean life is like i highly recommend watching this film.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_%282008_film%29

[Moose-Knuckle]

the north korean populace are victims of their government.

As with every other people in recorded history. It always amazes me, the human condition. If the dumb asses with the weapons (military/individual soldier) would just think who has the real power, the guys with the boom sticks or the dude sitting his fat perverted ass on the thrown.


"Give me liberty or give me death. "
Patrick Henry - 23 March 1775

[trinydex]

lots of the soldiers are themselves starving... and the soldiers are the ones that supposedly get the first crack at the aid food.

is it easy to organize a revolution with everyone starving and on top of that, with a big brother institution. also... the north korean elite may want to keep the status quo.

i'm not exactly sure what you want them to do. there's hundreds of thousands of people in slave labor camps. there's never too many that can be expended under the north korean government's rule. they'll send everyone to the camps if they feel like it.

north korea isn't america where the americans had all the resources, food, guns, trade leverage, education, a feeling of entitlement and a ruler thousands of miles away.

north korea is more akin to russia... and look where they're at.

[Belmont31R]

lots of the soldiers are themselves starving... and the soldiers are the ones that supposedly get the first crack at the aid food.

is it easy to organize a revolution with everyone starving and on top of that, with a big brother institution. also... the north korean elite may want to keep the status quo.

i'm not exactly sure what you want them to do. there's hundreds of thousands of people in slave labor camps. there's never too many that can be expended under the north korean government's rule. they'll send everyone to the camps if they feel like it.

north korea isn't america where the americans had all the resources, food, guns, trade leverage, education, a feeling of entitlement and a ruler thousands of miles away.

north korea is more akin to russia... and look where they're at.



There is nothing akin to NORK.


I do not think an invasion would be successful. You would end up having to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians in the process.


I think the best way is to pressure China and Russia.


We import hundreds of billions of goods from China yet allow them to prop up the Jung regime and family? We are entering into arms agreement with Russia but allow them to prop up the regime in NORK?

[trinydex]

I think the best way is to pressure China and Russia.


We import hundreds of billions of goods from China yet allow them to prop up the Jung regime and family? We are entering into arms agreement with Russia but allow them to prop up the regime in NORK?

totally in agreement here. china specifically. the problem is that the way the decision theory is working out on the international stage, there's no incentive for china to do anything BUT prop up the nk government.

the alternative is millions of refugees to china, russia, south korea etc. think of the last time america took refugees, they were trickles compared to what would happen if nk officially failed. and look what has happened to many refugee populations in america. they're not all success stories.

you think china wants any part of that? no frickin' way. the way it's set up now they even get the rest of the world to chip in on food and nutrition for their ailing/dysfunctional neighbor. it's a win win win for china to just maintain the status quo.

if we're to actually affect some change in nk we have to change the decision theory for china in a big way, one that forces their hand to do something about it. not quite sure how that would look, but i'm definitely up for hearing suggestions. it'd be interesting to discuss.

[ST911]

The day after I graduated HS my best friend and I went to Europe for a month, and on the way back while I was waiting to be picked up noticed a couple people who looked utterly lost. Turns out they were here from Russia on some sort of work program through Sea World were supposed to be going to San Diego. We were at LAX and they had no way to get anywhere. My family ended up taking them to our house for the night and contacted their "contact" here to get them squared away. You could just tell they were in shock as we were driving to our house and once they saw how a random person lived. NORK is far worse than Russia and the people are completely cut off from the rest of the world.

I want to see the NORK government fail, and ROK take over but its going to be like reuniting people from the stone age into modern civilization for the first time. I don't really have any ill will towards the NORK people as they simply don't know any better. If anything its an example of why I oppose government control and viewing politicians as celebrities or above the average man. Its a very dangerous thing to do and blinds people to whats really happening.

Great post.

I remember traveling around Soviet eastern europe during the cold war, and seeing the comparative squalor they lived in. As bad as that could be, they had it so much better than the North Korean populace does now. The east-euros knew what they were missing, could see it across the barbed wire and tank traps, and listen to it on radio free europe, the BBC, and AFN.

The reunification of Germany and the political, social, and economic issues they encountered give us a preview of what you might see in a reunification of north and south Korea. It will be much worse though.

And as popular an idea as reunification is, it will also develop opponents as it becomes reality. A Berliner friend likened his new East Berlin neighbors as the cousins from their equivalent of Appalachia that were nice to see, but now would not leave.

I asked a local Korean friend what she thought of the situation back home. She got a tormented look on her face, shook her head, and said simply, "Many problem coming." One way or the other, she's right.

[Belmont31R]

Great post.

I remember traveling around Soviet eastern europe during the cold war, and seeing the comparative squalor they lived in. As bad as that could be, they had it so much better than the North Korean populace does now. The east-euros knew what they were missing, could see it across the barbed wire and tank traps, and listen to it on radio free europe, the BBC, and AFN.

The reunification of Germany and the political, social, and economic issues they encountered give us a preview of what you might see in a reunification of north and south Korea. It will be much worse though.

And as popular an idea as reunification is, it will also develop opponents as it becomes reality. A Berliner friend likened his new East Berlin neighbors as the cousins from their equivalent of Appalachia that were nice to see, but now would not leave.

I asked a local Korean friend what she thought of the situation back home. She got a tormented look on her face, shook her head, and said simply, "Many problem coming." One way or the other, she's right.




Yes this is like East Germany and West Germany X100. Theres no EASY solution to this but NORK cannot live like this forever. I hope to see those souls freed of their chains before I die, and want to see a common NORK toss a Jung into an icy river to end that twisted communist totalitarian rule.


I was texting my best friend about this, who is both an Afghan vet and Iraq vet and about to become a commissioned USMC officer about this, and we are both in amazement how a single person can have such a profound effect on life in a country. Saddam ruled Iraq with an iron fist and no one would put a bullet in the dudes head? Hitler had a few assassination attempts at least. Logic would think that at least one person would have the balls to end this shit. Id rather have some random general take over than a continuation of this crazy and tragic family rule.

I don't think the world has seen anything like this before, and I hope we never see it again.

[trinydex]

it's not as though nk is totally in the dark. when you're starving i would think of the first things on your mind is that you'd love to not be starving. in light of all the propaganda that's shoved in their faces daily, with huge efforts on the propaganda games etc. they know that their government sucks.

it's not as if they're totally shut off from the world either. there is smuggling of south korean pop culture and merchandise etc. they may not know the full extent of what the outside world is, but i wouldn't say any of them are stupidly blind.

the propaganda would make it seem like they're stupid, but that's all state produced bullshit. we don't believe all of our media here in america and it's capitalist produced. we definitely shouldn't believe any of what the north korean state puts out.

[Belmont31R]

it's not as though nk is totally in the dark. when you're starving i would think of the first things on your mind is that you'd love to not be starving. in light of all the propaganda that's shoved in their faces daily, with huge efforts on the propaganda games etc. they know that their government sucks.

it's not as if they're totally shut off from the world either. there is smuggling of south korean pop culture and merchandise etc. they may not know the full extent of what the outside world is, but i wouldn't say any of them are stupidly blind.

the propaganda would make it seem like they're stupid, but that's all state produced bullshit. we don't believe all of our media here in america and it's capitalist produced. we definitely shouldn't believe any of what the north korean state puts out.



Its a constant stream of propaganda as well as the rule of the AK47. As westerners we have NO IDEA just how isolated their people are. Even with stuff that is snuck in no one dares spread it or make it public. This is generations of this shit not just a decade like Hitler ruled over Germany. This is half a century of this shit they have been exposed to and been controlled by. Far different.


I might actually applaud a us president who found a way to air drop pictures and our own "propaganda" in there. Ive stated before one of the things I would support internationally is suppression of genocide and this like genocide of the mind.

[chadbag]

It is fear. You can read stories about what they do to your family, etc. if you step out of line.

They know that their country sucks. I guess the official radios and TVs can only tune in the official channels, but lots of radios and stuff are smuggled in from China, and some from SK too. DVDs and stuff (players for the DVDs!) too.

I've read a bunch of articles in the last year detailing the smuggling that goes on from China, and the day to day survival story that is life in NK. While they know things are better in SK and in their brotherly neighbor China, they are in constant fear and in a day to day struggle just to feed their families. They cannot think about resisting or anything in their state.

My wife was reading some Japanese media, who, I understand, were quoting some SK people who had had contact with people in NK. Most of that wailing and crying is a show. Not that the NK police or army comes and tells them to do it -- they go out on their own and do it -- but they do it out of fear of not doing it... In NK, if you don't behave that way, you are suspect in the minds of the government.

[Moose-Knuckle]

lots of the soldiers are themselves starving... and the soldiers are the ones that supposedly get the first crack at the aid food.

And what does history tell us about armies that don't get paid and or fed anymore by their leaders?


is it easy to organize a revolution with everyone starving. . .

I guess it's just easier to starve to death and die like a good subject.


i'm not exactly sure what you want them to do. there's hundreds of thousands of people in slave labor camps. there's never too many that can be expended under the north korean government's rule. they'll send everyone to the camps if they feel like it.


Stand and deliver. . . Right there you just said how many people they have to revolt, once the soldiers are sick and tired enough of watching their mothers and fathers starve to death maybe they will turn their undivided attention to the central party members and their privileged families.

[Mauser KAR98K]

Interesting about the game Homefront.

http://kotaku.com/5869207/video-game-almost-predicted-kim-jong+ils-death

[ST911]

Most of that wailing and crying is a show. Not that the NK police or army comes and tells them to do it -- they go out on their own and do it -- but they do it out of fear of not doing it... In NK, if you don't behave that way, you are suspect in the minds of the government.

Correct. The body language of the "mourners" gives them away. Watch the vids, especially those in which one mourner is viewed for a lengthier period of time. One gal I saw wailing and prostrating gave a very Susan Smith like performance.

[Jer]

Interesting about the game Homefront.

http://kotaku.com/5869207/video-game-almost-predicted-kim-jong+ils-death

A little off topic but this game was a HUGE disappointment. I followed the development from early on and was even an Alpha tester and was horribly disappointed. Very cool premise and I think it's cool that they were so close on their prediction of Kim Jong Croak. Hopefully they're off on the rest of the story because it gets a little dark for the US to include a unified Korean occupation of the US.

[BrianS]

Just the idea of a Korean occupation of the United States is ludicrous. They can't even occupy South Tacoma Way. Makes a pretty poor premise for a game.

I guess if we hadn't let the NKs develop nukes now would be a good time to unify the peninsula.

[trinydex]

And what does history tell us about armies that don't get paid and or fed anymore by their leaders?


what does history tell us? i don't know what you're referring to. you can just say it.



I guess it's just easier to starve to death and die like a good subject.

it is after all the status quo... i'd say it's wrong to judge from afar. in any case, how do you think the hundreds of thousands got into the slave labor camps? it's from actions that are slightly critical of the government to full blown sedition. the slave labor camps grow daily.



Stand and deliver. . . Right there you just said how many people they have to revolt, once the soldiers are sick and tired enough of watching their mothers and fathers starve to death maybe they will turn their undivided attention to the central party members and their privileged families.

it is a mystery why the largest standing army in the world is just fine with watching the rest of the country starve... but also the internal propaganda is strong and that's not at all an excuse but i have few explanations, just a prayer that things might change in nk.

[scottryan]

Why aren't our tanks already across the dmz?

[decodeddiesel]

Why aren't our tanks already across the dmz?

Because China, and more than likely Russia, wouldn't like that very much.

[Belmont31R]

Because China, and more than likely Russia, wouldn't like that very much.


Not to mention Seoul is within arty range of the DMZ.

[chadbag]

Because China, and more than likely Russia, wouldn't like that very much.

I think they would like it. China just seals the border to keep the NK out and then we are again the occupiers and are responsible for the NK people, removing China from having to deal with and support them...

Just some random thoughts.

Tanks into NK makes no sense.

[chadbag]

In Memory Of Kim Jong-Il: Dear Leader, G.O.A.T. | ThePostGame


http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/daily-take/201112/memory-kim-jong-il-dear-leader-and-goat




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[trinydex]

I think they would like it. China just seals the border to keep the NK out and then we are again the occupiers and are responsible for the NK people, removing China from having to deal with and support them...

Just some random thoughts.

Tanks into NK makes no sense.

i would highly not recommend the u.s. take on yet another task of nursing yet another country.

looking back on all our wars, it appears germany and japan made it out the best. are there any other success stories of post war reconstructions in post ww2 history?

[scottryan]

i would highly not recommend the u.s. take on yet another task of nursing yet another country.

looking back on all our wars, it appears germany and japan made it out the best. are there any other success stories of post war reconstructions in post ww2 history?


You are correct.

Germany and Japan made it out because they were already modern societies before the war.

Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc are all third world shit holes.

[trinydex]

I wonder if south korea can be considered a success story too. And taiwan....

[Moose-Knuckle]

what does history tell us? i don't know what you're referring to. you can just say it.

Seriously? There are volumes written on the matter and I don't mean that offensively. In a nut shell, they go off the reservation.


it is after all the status quo... i'd say it's wrong to judge from afar. in any case, how do you think the hundreds of thousands got into the slave labor camps? it's from actions that are slightly critical of the government to full blown sedition. the slave labor camps grow daily.

Well I think it is wrong to live under the yoke of tyranny, Patrick Henry said it best. As for how the people got in the camps, they live under a brutal communist regime. Under Stalin many heroes/patriots of the motherland were imprisoned in his Gulags for nothing more than his delusional paranoia.


it is a mystery why the largest standing army in the world is just fine with watching the rest of the country starve... but also the internal propaganda is strong and that's not at all an excuse but i have few explanations, just a prayer that things might change in nk.

Agreed; fear, propaganda, and mass mind control techniques are at work. It is the bread and butter of the scourge known as communism.

[trinydex]

Seriously? There are volumes written on the matter and I don't mean that offensively. In a nut shell, they go off the reservation.

Well I think it is wrong to live under the yoke of tyranny, Patrick Henry said it best. As for how the people got in the camps, they live under a brutal communist regime. Under Stalin many heroes/patriots of the motherland were imprisoned in his Gulags for nothing more than his delusional paranoia.

well do you have details of how these unfed armies rose up?

you mention russia later in your post and i feel like russia is such a different scenario. russia has resources. i don't know what north korea has to work with, but it certainly doesn't seem like much.



Agreed; fear, propaganda, and mass mind control techniques are at work. It is the bread and butter of the scourge known as communism.

i have been giving it some thought... there must be some part of the decision theory of the individual soldier and the soldiers as a group that makes it temporarily more profitable to maintain the status quo than to buck the system. i'm sure there's something to be said for the divisiveness of a big brother state, where people rat on others etc. and something to be said of the human psychology of knowing how bad things suck at the present instead of guessing how much more it'll suck in the future if you change it.

it would be interesting to figure out those incentives or lack there of and analyze the breaking point after which the north korean military really would just not look back and dump the system.

i would say what history has to say about military rebellions is that they're hit or miss. many a military state has been formed and either fails or is no better than the tyranny it replaced. perhaps that is one of the pieces of decision theory that goes into the military-as-a-group's calculus.

we have to also keep in mind that the people at any level of capability to rebel or revolt know that there are other players in the world and that they're not all supportive of an nk liberation. china, russia and south korea to be the top on that list. the united states being a total uncertainty to them because really, what would the united states do if nk failed? we wouldn't straight up swoop in and fix it... many would suffer, many already suffer, it could be a total wash for the actual occupiers of the unfortunate nation. the decision theory isn't just clear cut yes liberation = good/win.

it takes so much resolve at the individual level to steer an entire nation onto a better path. i just hope the international community can put in the right bread crumbs for nk to finally get lead to water. whether or not the people drink at that point is not our burden.

[kaiservontexas]

NORK is 1984 in action. Money and all that matter nothing. It is not even surprising, but that is a matter of faith. They will do what they believe is a must even if that means death. Hell the whole point of a uniform for them is to die. These are not Westerners.

[Moose-Knuckle]

well do you have details of how these unfed armies rose up?

History is littered with these accounts.


you mention russia later in your post and i feel like russia is such a different scenario. russia has resources. i don't know what north korea has to work with, but it certainly doesn't seem like much.

I mentioned Stalin due to the fact that he would have loyal Soviets arrested, tortured, imprisoned, and killed for nothing. So they might as well have stood in opposition to the son of a bitch. I wasn't comparing NK and the USSR.


whether or not the people drink at that point is not our burden.

Not in the least.

[Moose-Knuckle]

As for Kim Jong Dong Il being dead I give you. . .

Neil Young - Rockin' In The Free World :cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdiCJUysIT0