BCM Filthy 14 ?? [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

Pilgrim

12-21-11, 21:36

Or you could just order something from BCM. They'll send you a new copy of the article every time. ;)

I've got copies of this in just about every room in the house!!!

Perhaps I order too much from BCM?...

Thanks Roger for the update on Filthy 14. I bought an upper exactly like it, mostly on Pat's testimonial.

BufordTJustice

12-21-11, 23:11

Thank you for the update, Roger.

kmrtnsn

12-21-11, 23:28

I had an opportunity to T&E this weapon a couple of years ago, before it hit 30K rounds. It shot very well, no malfunctions or issues, and it ate everything I fed it over three days in AZ. I showed me three things, one how much an improvement the 14.5 mid gas system is over the carbine gas M4, what a great optic the T1 is, and that Slip 2000 is a great lube.

ForTehNguyen

12-22-11, 08:14

Filthy 14 was a 16" midlength

markm

12-22-11, 08:17

Filthy 14 was a 16" midlength

Yeah... the 14.5 middy is a little more finnicky.

jwfuhrman

12-22-11, 09:22

I thought it was a 14.5 with the perm attached A2X? Guess I gotta re-read the article

GeorgiaBoy

12-22-11, 09:32

The EAG Tactical carbine/upper offered by BCM has a 14.5 with a permed A2X. Filthy 14 was a 16" with a A2.

SuperiorDG

12-22-11, 09:39

Or you could just order something from BCM. They'll send you a new copy of the article every time. ;)

I was going to say the same thing.

BTW I have the 14.5 mid and I keep hearing they are "finnicky." I have never had a problem. What's the deal?

markm

12-22-11, 09:45

I was going to say the same thing.

BTW I have the 14.5 mid and I keep hearing they are "finnicky." I have never had a problem. What's the deal?

They don't run well with low powered ammo or heavier buffers. They still run, but you can get some failures to lockback on an empty mag, etc.

ennbeegunny15

12-22-11, 09:54

I was going to say the same thing.

BTW I have the 14.5 mid and I keep hearing they are "finnicky." I have never had a problem. What's the deal?

same here, what is the problem? i've taken it through a couple of classes and put alot of rounds through it. with no problems as of yet, except for the bad lever which i dumped and it runs like a champ.

ennbeegunny15

12-22-11, 09:55

never mind...thanks.

JSantoro

12-22-11, 10:15

FYI: Talking with Pat this weekend, Filthy 14 has over 43,000 rounds on it and still shoots 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards. It will be rebuilt.

Hell yeah, over! By 5000+ rounds....! :D

I was at the Gadsden Carbine 2 class, last week. #70 and #77 have 12k and about 9k on them, respectively, and they SMELL. There are other T&E guns for EAG student use, with what lot of folks would erroneously think of as a blasphemous amounts of rounds sent downrange without a single cleaning. Bear in mind, Filthy 14 just happens to be the one with the most.

There were 14 soldiers at the class I just attended. I about dropped a deuce in my shorts laughing at the exclaimations of shock and horror when Pat pulled the BCG out of #70 to show them. Looked like it had wind-drifted dunes of wet, black sand on it....

dpaqu

12-22-11, 10:16

FYI: Talking with Pat this weekend, Filthy 14 has over 43,000 rounds on it and still shoots 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards. It will be rebuilt.

I just want to say that is crazy. At .25cents a round that is almost $10,000 of ammo.(I'm guessing they did not shoot wolf in this gun) I wish they had taken pics when they cleaned it or when the bolt broke. I'd also love to see what an exstractor looks like after 13k rounds.

ForTehNguyen

12-22-11, 11:02

I thought it was a 14.5 with the perm attached A2X? Guess I gotta re-read the article

http://www.03designgroup.com/reviews/bcm-complete-ar15-upper-and-lower-receivers

On 12-24-09 I contacted Pat Rogers to see what the current round count of the BCM 16" Mid-Length that he has been loaning out to students. Pat refers to this BCM Mid-Length as "Filthy 14" and provided me with the following information on this gun:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_138/196990_Filthy_14_is_now_over_40_000_rounds.html

Posted: 11/15/2010 6:25:58 AM
Filthy 14 broke 40k this past weekend at the EAG Carbine 2 Course in Franklin TN.

#14 is a 16" Mid Length that has been used in EAG classes since we first received it.

RogerinTPA

12-22-11, 20:28

Hell yeah, over! By 5000+ rounds....! :D

I was at the Gadsden Carbine 2 class, last week. #70 and #77 have 12k and about 9k on them, respectively, and they SMELL. There are other T&E guns for EAG student use, with what lot of folks would erroneously think of as a blasphemous amounts of rounds sent downrange without a single cleaning. Bear in mind, Filthy 14 just happens to be the one with the most.

There were 14 soldiers at the class I just attended. I about dropped a deuce in my shorts laughing at the exclaimations of shock and horror when Pat pulled the BCG out of #70 to show them. Looked like it had wind-drifted dunes of wet, black sand on it....

I had a similar experience with one of his T&E guns 2 years ago. When I went to add some Slip EWL to the BCG, that's exactly what I saw. It was both cool and vindicating (Since I'd regularly take my ARs up to 5K with just lube, while shooting Wolf!) to see these weapons go beyond 15K rounds fired without cleaning. ;)

TheBelly

07-09-12, 22:56

I'm sorry to resurrect:

Anyone have a current link for the filthy 14 article?

I'm doing research for a project here and I'd like to use that article as a source.

KCBRUIN

07-09-12, 23:08

I'm sorry to resurrect:

Anyone have a current link for the filthy 14 article?

I'm doing research for a project here and I'd like to use that article as a source.

I haven't seen a good link in a while. Might wanna give Bravo Co. a call see if they'll send you one. If not I might be able to scan it for you of I have the time.

TheBelly

07-09-12, 23:19

if at all possible to scan and send, that's easiest for me. due to the location and nature of my new job, I'm not able to get phone calls out that easily.

Blankwaffe

07-09-12, 23:19

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/

sinlessorrow

07-09-12, 23:20

http://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/

no pictures, and without pictures one cannot understand just how dirty that rifle is.

KCBRUIN

07-09-12, 23:33

If no one posts up a link with pics by tomorrow afternoon pm me and I'll try and get it scanned for you.

Blankwaffe

07-09-12, 23:37

no pictures, and without pictures one cannot understand just how dirty that rifle is.

Yeap I know but the best I could do.Sorry,
Slip used to have the entire article in pdf on the old site,but thats the only source I could find.Pictures or not the hard information is there.Would also be good to take note of Pat Rogers followup commentary on the subject in his forum posts of the subject to fill in the details that were not included in the article.

KCBRUIN

07-09-12, 23:58

Found this. Works as of this post.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/50367872/filthy14-oct10

sgtbutt

07-09-12, 23:59

SWAT Magazine did the article and I've even gotten a 3-4 page specialty article dealio from Bravo Co about a year ago when I placed an order. Try to get ahold of SWAT to see if they have the article they did on digital.

Markasaurus

07-10-12, 08:17

I just want to say that is crazy. At .25cents a round that is almost $10,000 of ammo.(I'm guessing they did not shoot wolf in this gun) I wish they had taken pics when they cleaned it or when the bolt broke. I'd also love to see what an exstractor looks like after 13k rounds.i doubt there's an extractor made that can go that many rounds. Also maximum life for a buffer spring should be 10,000 rounds. If it doesn't get changed by then I'd think you'd be gambling with the function.

All the pdf to filthy 14 are gone from the net, the only one i found its the one where they want you to pay $15. I'd like to read the article, for those who have, do they say what parts they had to change?

I found another similar article by some soldier who was a range master and did a similar test. I'd post a link but i don't know how on an Android. He basically said magazine issues caused 80% of malfunctions. In his rifle he always installed a heavier buffer ("H" or "H3" buffer) and the heavier extractor spring with neoprene o-ring. Doing this made the rifle"obscenely reliable". I will post the link later unless somebody else would be kind enough to do it first.

KCBRUIN

07-10-12, 11:41

I found and posted a PDF link to Filthy 14 about 3 posts up.

majorleaguekennels

07-10-12, 13:57

Here is a img i pulled off the web. this is supposed to be at the 31k mark.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7544740794_8e74f662e7_z.jpg

i got it from a google img search

Markasaurus

07-10-12, 15:29

I found and posted a PDF link to Filthy 14 about 3 posts up.i may be doing something wrong, but i only get half a page of it and the words are jumbled together

KCBRUIN

07-10-12, 16:07

Just tried again it works perfect for me. There's arrows to switch pages.

everyusernametaken

07-10-12, 16:10

i may be doing something wrong, but i only get half a page of it and the words are jumbled together

Works for me on my Android phone (Samsung GS2 running Android 2.3). You have to click on the right side of the page to go to the next page, as there are no arrows shown on the Android browser.

KCBRUIN

07-10-12, 16:15

On my iPad if I try and save the pics it blocks out the article. Some kind of security feature I suppose.

KCBRUIN

07-10-12, 16:22

Deleted. Quality was crap. I'll post a better quality version here later.

Littlelebowski

07-10-12, 20:22

i doubt there's an extractor made that can go that many rounds. Also maximum life for a buffer spring should be 10,000 rounds. If it doesn't get changed by then I'd think you'd be gambling with the function.

My 5.45 has surpassed these numbers on both parts (23k).

KCBRUIN

07-10-12, 21:33

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8431/7547096180_0012914e7f_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7125/7547099596_05399e752d_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/7547099060_115bb70649_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8281/7547098576_cbfce31249_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8141/7547096680_4594064a3e_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8421/7547098140_381fe38c39_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8291/7547097738_c4c7c23f54_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8290/7547097234_7654de447d_b.jpg

brushy bill

07-10-12, 21:52

FYI: Talking with Pat this weekend, Filthy 14 has over 43,000 rounds on it and still shoots 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards. It will be rebuilt.

Roger, any parts replacement since SWAT article?

TheBelly

07-11-12, 00:31

Thanks a metric crap-ton for posting this up!

RogerinTPA

07-11-12, 04:28

Roger, any parts replacement since SWAT article?

I don't know. It's just what we discussed the last time I was in his class, which was around a year and a half ago. I missed his class this past Dec in FL since my rotation schedule in AFG prevented me from attending it and other premium quality training courses.

KCBRUIN

07-11-12, 09:18

Thanks a metric crap-ton for posting this up!

Not a problem hope it helps, and that I didn't violate any rules. :D

superstratjunky

12-15-13, 13:07

Any new news on this rifle?

sinlessorrow

12-15-13, 15:57

Any new news on this rifle?

Last I heard it reached 60,000 rounds and was fully rebuilt.

superstratjunky

12-15-13, 20:34

Last I heard it reached 60,000 rounds and was fully rebuilt.

Wow! Thanks.

Wake27

12-15-13, 22:26

This was a standard barrel, not BFH right?

sinlessorrow

12-15-13, 23:06

This was a standard barrel, not BFH right?

Yep standard BCM barrel.

sinlessorrow

12-16-13, 10:58

One knows when the barrel is shot out when grouping at 300m falls off, @ 50m a smoothbore and wretched throat aren't noticeable.

I would find it more interesting if relevant metrics had been kept. Xray'd bolt every 1000rds past 7000, and 300m grouping w/ 55, 62, 70 & 77gr every 1000rd past initial 7000.

He did not xray but he did brake the bolts around the 16k mark if I recall correctly.

Hicklinc

06-14-14, 00:19

Last I heard it reached 60,000 rounds and was fully rebuilt.

Curious do you know what kind of accuracy it was getting just before the rebuild

sinlessorrow

06-14-14, 00:29

Curious do you know what kind of accuracy it was getting just before the rebuild

I think it was 4" groups at 50M.

M&P15T

06-14-14, 12:08

That's impressive. Just the cost in ammo is astounding.

BufordTJustice

06-14-14, 12:33

Yep standard BCM barrel.
It makes one wonder what a CHF barrel would do. Or possibly what a bolt would do with the A5 system in place.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

M&P15T

06-14-14, 12:36

It makes one wonder what a CHF barrel would do.

I keep hearing differing opinions on CHF. Some say it makes no difference, since the hard chroming makes surface hardness, some say it does.

BufordTJustice

06-14-14, 12:45

I keep hearing differing opinions on CHF. Some say it makes no difference, since the hard chroming makes surface hardness, some say it does.

While I'm no metallurgist, if the steel under the chrome lining is harder, I would imagine that can only increase barrel life. How much is the million dollar question.

EDIT: I also wonder if gain twist rifling would add to barrel life due to reduced engraving forces required at the throat.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

Hicklinc

06-14-14, 12:58

While I'm no metallurgist, if the steel under the chrome lining is harder, I would imagine that can only increase barrel life. How much is the million dollar question.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

I would really like to see a similar long term test done with the bhf barrel

M&P15T

06-14-14, 13:01

While I'm no metallurgist, if the steel under the chrome lining is harder, I would imagine that can only increase barrel life. How much is the million dollar question.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

I'm not sure exactly what it means. I have read that it's just a cheap way of making barrels, but I don't know exactly what it means.

Malig8r

06-14-14, 13:02

I would really like to see a similar long term test done with the bhf barrel

I would really like to have the amount of ammo to be able to do it :cool:

BufordTJustice

06-14-14, 13:05

I'm not sure exactly what it means. I have read that it's just a cheap way of making barrels, but I don't know exactly what it means.

It's not cheap at all. It is efficient. You don't want to know what a hammer forging barrel setup costs up front.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

M&P15T

06-14-14, 13:08

It's not cheap at all. It is efficient. You don't want to know what a hammer forging barrel setup costs up front.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

Approximately $2,000,000 FN Herstal has two of them. They are a front-end heavy investment, but once that investment is made they are a good value for a high-volume barrel producer.

I said I don't know "exactly" what cold hammer forging actually, specifically means. I didn't say I knew nothing on the topic.

BufordTJustice

06-14-14, 13:16

Approximately $2,000,000 FN Herstal has two of them. They are a front-end heavy investment, but once that investment is made they are a good value for a high-volume barrel producer.

I said I don't know "exactly" what cold hammer forging actually, specifically means. I didn't say I knew nothing on the topic.
Then you need to be more clear. Stating, "I've read it's just a cheap way of making barrels" sounds pretty uninformed unless you qualify the statement.

Obviously you're not ignorant on the topic. There are some videos on YouTube that show the machines in action. Let me see if I can find one for you.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

M&P15T

06-14-14, 13:27

Then you need to be more clear. Stating, "I've read it's just a cheap way of making barrels" sounds pretty uninformed unless you qualify the statement.

Obviously you're not ignorant on the topic. There are some videos on YouTube that show the machines in action. Let me see if I can find one for you.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

I'm ignorant on what it actually is, but I have read about it's costs and applications.

I'm watching the videos now.

It seems like it's just a process of literally pounding the cold steel, which toughens the steel, but also changes it's shape. I have also read that it reduces stress points in the steel. Is there some sort of bore/rifling plug in the barrel when it is forged? I think I'm still confused as to what, exactly, hammer forging is meant to do. Create the rifling inside the barrel? How would pounding the outside of the barrel create rifling inside it? Create the barrel and the rifling at the same time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrmWN0igJY0

pinzgauer

06-14-14, 13:27

I said I don't know "exactly" what cold hammer forging actually, specifically means. I didn't say I knew nothing on the topic.

A while back I posted links to an army analysis of Steyr process hammer forged barrels in M2, M14, and M16.

Pretty dramatic results, primarily smoothness (reduced fouling), life, and accuracy.

Short version: the Steyr process changes the crystal structure of the metal. Same reason forged lowers are stronger than billet.

I think some of the cheapness rep is old news from Remington trying a us competitor process with mixed results back in the late 70s early 80s.

Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics

M&P15T

06-14-14, 13:44

A while back I posted links to an army analysis of Steyr process hammer forged barrels in M2, M14, and M16.

Pretty dramatic results, primarily smoothness (reduced fouling), life, and accuracy.

Short version: the Steyr process changes the crystal structure of the metal. Same reason forged lowers are stronger than billet.

I think some of the cheapness rep is old news from Remington trying a us competitor process with mixed results back in the late 70s early 80s.

Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics

I can see in the videos that there are automated weights/hammers that pound on the outside of the barrel. I can see how that part of the process works. What I do not understand is how the rifling is getting cut, what is happening inside the bore.

Is there a 2nd part to the hammer forging process that is going on at the same time that can't be seen in the videos? Is there some sort of tool that is inside the bore and cutting the rifling at the same time as the forging process is happening on the outside of the barrel? Is the rifling cut after forging? Before forging?

Moonlight Again

06-14-14, 13:46

I can see in the videos that there are automated weights/hammers that pound on the outside of the barrel. I can see how that part of the process works. What I do not understand is how the rifling is getting cut, what is happening inside the bore.

Is there a 2nd part to the hammer forging process that is going on at the same time that can't be seen in the videos? Is there some sort of tool that is inside the bore and cutting the rifling at the same time as the forging process is happening on the outside of the barrel? Is the rifling cut after forging? Before forging?

My understanding is that there is a mandrel inside the barrel, and as the steel is hammered from the outside the rifling is formed on the mandrel, and that there is no "cutting" of the rifling at all.

M&P15T

06-14-14, 13:57

My understanding is that there is a mandrel inside the barrel, and as the steel is hammered from the outside the rifling is formed on the mandrel, and that there is no "cutting" of the rifling at all.

A "mandrel" is a piece of metal that is the exact dimensions as the desired bore and rifling? So the bore is...bored, some base-line rifling is cut, and then the mandrel inserted and the hammer forging process begun? Or is the bore drilled over-sized, the mandrel inserted, and then the barrel is hammered into shape around the mandrel which then creates the rifling as the metal is formed around it?

ETA; If the mandrel is a "negative" of the desired bore and rifling, then making the mandrel must be incredibly important. For a 20" 5.56MM barrel, the mandrel would be a 20" long, .223/5.56MM diameter metal rod with raised, thin areas that create the rifling. If this is true, then making the mandrel would be incredibly difficult as it must be very rigid, very hard/stiff, with extremely precise tolerances.

It would then make sense that the final exterior barrel profile and the chamber would be cut after the forging process.

Any metal manufacturing process specialists that can chime in with better info?

BufordTJustice

06-14-14, 14:14

A "mandrel" is a piece of metal that is the exact dimensions as the desired bore and rifling? So the bore is...bored, some base-line rifling is cut, and then the mandrel inserted and the hammer forging process begun? Or is the bore drilled over-sized, the mandrel inserted, and then the barrel is hammered into shape around the mandrel which then creates the rifling as the metal is formed around it?

ETA; If the mandrel is a "negative" of the desired bore and rifling, then making the mandrel must be incredibly important. For a 20" 5.56MM barrel, the mandrel would be a 20" long, .223/5.56MM diameter metal rod with raised, thin areas that create the rifling. If this is true, then making the mandrel would be incredibly difficult as it must be very rigid, very hard/stiff, with extremely precise tolerances.

It would then make sense that the final exterior barrel profile and the chamber would be cut after the forging process.

Any metal manufacturing process specialists that can chime in with better info?
The second description. ;)

The mandrel can be used to form just the rifling or the rifling and the chamber during the hammer forging process.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

M&P15T

06-14-14, 14:21

The second description. ;)

The mandrel can be used to form just the rifling or the rifling and the chamber during the hammer forging process.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk

O.k.....so how the hell is the mandrel made? I can't imagine how precise it has to be made, and how hard the metal is that it must be made from.

And wouldn't the rifling end-up being the tougher part of the barrel, instead of the raised surface? Or does the steel still flow enough to form itself in a uniform manner even when cold?

MountainRaven

06-14-14, 14:33

Barrel steels are pretty soft, so the mandrel wouldn't need to be that hard.

BufordTJustice

06-14-14, 14:34

O.k.....so how the hell is the mandrel made? I can't imagine how precise it has to be made, and how hard the metal is that it must be made from.

And wouldn't the rifling end-up being the tougher part of the barrel, instead of the raised surface? Or does the steel still flow enough to form itself in a uniform manner even when cold?

This is going to have most, if not all, of the info that you are looking for:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/53432034/Notes-on-Hammer-Forged-Barrels

M&P15T

06-14-14, 14:41

This is going to have most, if not all, of the info that you are looking for:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/53432034/Notes-on-Hammer-Forged-Barrels

The first few paragraphs were indeed interesting. After that, that stupid site wants you to login with facebook, and then pay to read the rest of the article.

Still, the picture showed what I expected as far as the machinery involved, just nothing on the mandrel.....thanks though, good info.

BufordTJustice

06-14-14, 14:55

The first few paragraphs were indeed interesting. After that, that stupid site wants you to login with facebook, and then pay to read the rest of the article.

Still, the picture showed what I expected as far as the machinery involved, just nothing on the mandrel.....thanks though, good info.

I have the full PDF. PM your personal email and I'll email it to you directly.

M&P15T

06-14-14, 15:02

I have the full PDF. PM your personal email and I'll email it to you directly.

Thanks a lot....nothing better than learning new stuff.

Although this may make me want my next AR to have a CHF barrel.......or not.

Moonlight Again

06-17-14, 15:17

Funny, we were just talking about it, and here's a DD rep explaining the process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4qEnBCkxfY&feature=youtu.be

markm

06-17-14, 15:23

That's cool. I'd seen tiny clips of a hammer forge in action, but I didn't realize the blank actually gets stretched in the HF process. WOW! Very interesting.

Trajan

06-17-14, 19:28

Aside from Colt's testing that reached the conclusion that there was no advantage to hammer forged barrels, have there been other tests done?

Obscenejesster

06-17-14, 20:58

Aside from Colt's testing that reached the conclusion that there was no advantage to hammer forged barrels, have there been other tests done?

I'm curious as well. I do own one CHF barrel that I got from BCM. I also happen to own a standard BCM barrel. Both are 16" light weights and I get better accuracy out of the CHF. I can put up 1.5 to 1.7 groups with the CHF but I can't break 2 inches with the standard. I know there are many other factors playing in here but that's all I can offer. Both barrels are free floated and I've shot close to 10 different rounds. I'm sure both barrels could be a bit more accurate in the hands of a better shooter.

I can't comment on life expectancy and probably never will be able too. There's no way I'll ever put more than 30,000 rounds through either of these barrels.

bp7178

06-17-14, 21:11

I'm ignorant on what it actually is, but I have read about it's costs and applications.

I'm watching the videos now.

It seems like it's just a process of literally pounding the cold steel, which toughens the steel, but also changes it's shape. I have also read that it reduces stress points in the steel. Is there some sort of bore/rifling plug in the barrel when it is forged? I think I'm still confused as to what, exactly, hammer forging is meant to do. Create the rifling inside the barrel? How would pounding the outside of the barrel create rifling inside it? Create the barrel and the rifling at the same time?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrmWN0igJY0

A mandrel is inserted into a blank which is deep hole drilled. The mandrel has a negative image of the rifling and chamber. As the hammers pound the outside of the barrel, the material deforms around the mandrel and creates the chamber, lands and grooves.

Any barrel production method is not without it downsides. With CHF'ing, there is a large amount of stress imparted on the barrel. Less important than the particular method is the way in which the barrel maker executes it. For high accuracy barrels, cut rifling is the way to go, but very time consuming. Button rifling can produce a barrel just as accurate as a cut rifled one, but in general terms the level of accuracy won't last as long.

All that being said, if you want a barrel you can hammer the f' out of, chrome lined hammer forged would be my choice. If I wanted to shoot bugholes as accurately as possible, cut rifled.

MistWolf

06-17-14, 21:47

Hammer forging is a fast, economical way to produce a high number of barrels, especially once you have your mandrels made. Remington used hammer forged barrels for many years to keep costs down. When it started being bandied about that the stresses introduce to the steel during the forging process was detrimental to accuracy, "hammer forged" barrels became the Kiss of Death. Remington continued using hammer forged barrels but kept quiet about it as the barrels were low cost and gave good accuracy for which the Model 700 was famous for.

The quality of the mandrel is crucial to making CHF barrels

markm

06-18-14, 08:26

Remington continued using hammer forged barrels but kept quiet about it as the barrels were low cost and gave good accuracy for which the Model 700 was famous for.

Damn. My .308 SPS barrel has been everything I could ask for. If I ever rebarrel it, I'll get a cut rifling barrel. But I'd guess that there's more consistency in HF barrels... I may be wrong, but I bet you don't get the bore diameter variances that you can see on some button rifled barrels.

MistWolf

06-18-14, 10:12

I'm not well versed as to which Remingtons used what barrel when, so I can't tell you which method was used to make the barrel of your SPS, but if it shoots, what does it matter? My father once owned a Steyr made sniper rifle which had a hammer forged barrel and it was one of the most accurate and consistent rifles I've ever seen.

Often we get caught up in the mythology of something, forgetting that what's important is how our firearms shoot. I've been guilty of it myself. Always remember, "Buy the gun, not the story"

markm

06-18-14, 10:36

I'm not well versed as to which Remingtons used what barrel when, so I can't tell you which method was used to make the barrel of your SPS

Remington put it in the item description on their website. It's an HF barrel.

MSparks909

06-18-14, 11:07

Aside from Colt's testing that reached the conclusion that there was no advantage to hammer forged barrels, have there been other tests done?

Link?

Obscenejesster

06-18-14, 12:05

In regards to Colt, don't they make CHF barrels in Canada?

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

BufordTJustice

06-19-14, 12:15

In regards to Colt, don't they make CHF barrels in Canada?

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

Yes, under the Diemaco umbrella.

Boltgun

06-19-14, 21:07

Although the name "Diemaco" is still owned by Colt Canada, they are definitely Colt Canada. The commercial rifles soon to be released with have the stylized D on them...however the LE guns coming out do not have any hint of Diemaco on them anymore.

Boltgun

BufordTJustice

06-20-14, 07:23