View Full Version : M+M Inc M10 7.62x39 Rifle
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1COM10762SF&name=M%2bM+Inc.+M10+7.62x39+Rifle&groupid=11
As anyone heard of this importer (M+M Inc)? I've been thinking of picking up a 7.62 variant AK in the future and was curious if anyone has any knowledge/experience with this importer or this rifle in particular.
Looks like WASR 10 conversion crap to me.
Looks like WASR 10 conversion crap to me.
It is...
In other words not worth the price tag. :stop:
:smile:
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1COM10762SF&name=M%2bM+Inc.+M10+7.62x39+Rifle&groupid=11
As anyone heard of this importer (M+M Inc)? I've been thinking of picking up a 7.62 variant AK in the future and was curious if anyone has any knowledge/experience with this importer or this rifle in particular.
ordered one of these a week ago and should be here soon, christmas traffic. its amazing how people are so fast to judge things without even owning this particular rifle, oh wait they probably have since theya are saying its a piece of crap. well i tell you what once i get it and take it to the range and see if its really a piece of crap certain peopl say it is, oh by the way Merry Christmas;)
The items that intrigue me:
- Gas block/front sight combo. This is an expensive upgrade if you choose to have a smith install one on an existing rifle. The blocks themselves are expensive and difficult to find. These lighten up the typically front-heavy AK's and make them much more pleasurable to shoot and carry for extended periods of time.
- Wire folding stock. Again a less-than-easy to find item. The wire stocks are durable and functional.
- New production, cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel. Building AK's from parts are often a guessing game at what type of history the barrel has.
The cost for most WASR's these days are around $400-$500 depending on where you look. For an additional $70, that you more than make up for in upgraded parts, as long as these rifles are functional I think the price is pretty reasonable.
The handguards are probably junk, but that's a simple fix of getting an Ultimak rail and a replacement Russian/Bulgarian handguard from K-Var.
I'm curious to hear how these shoot.
Tom pointed out all of the reasons why I'm interested in this rifle. I currently have a SGL-31 and was thinking of picking up a SGL-21 to compliment it. This rifle has a few options that have me intrigued and curious to see if its a solid rifle.
bm176 - glad to hear you'll be giving it a decide try. I'm looking forward to a range report.
Tom pointed out all of the reasons why I'm interested in this rifle. I currently have a SGL-31 and was thinking of picking up a SGL-21 to compliment it. This rifle has a few options that have me intrigued and curious to see if its a solid rifle.
bm176 - glad to hear you'll be giving it a decide try. I'm looking forward to a range report.
I honestly think you'd be far better off with a SGL-21 and adding things like wire stocks as needed. If you want a serious use rifle the 21 is the place to start, if you just want a blaster for "behind the barn" may as well get a stock WASR 10 and be done.
Trying to turn a WASR 10 into a serious use rifle is a tall order for anyone and it is entirely possible you will spend all that money and still have a problematic rifle that doesn't meet your expectations.
Trying to turn a WASR 10 into a serious use rifle is a tall order for anyone and it is entirely possible you will spend all that money and still have a problematic rifle that doesn't meet your expectations.
Many instructors that teach with the AK platform use WASRs as loaner rifles with no hesitations. They are cheap, and when gone over, they are reliable and reasonably accurate.
Many instructors that teach with the AK platform use WASRs as loaner rifles with no hesitations. They are cheap, and when gone over, they are reliable and reasonably accurate.
I know, I've seen the Larry Vickers pictures. All I'm saying is I've seen more than a few that couldn't be made acceptable regardless of any "going over."
I just don't think IMO that it is worth it to try and fix one up when you could just get a SGL-21.
FWIW, at the last Vickers AK class at South Hill, VA, LAV said he's no longer recommending a WASR even as a base rifle.
The one he uses sometimes as a training rifle was one of the earlier ones and it's also been reworked/upgraded and refinished.
Seeing as WASRs stopped having Romanian barrels, I can certainly see why he wouldnt recommend them.
I know, I've seen the Larry Vickers pictures. All I'm saying is I've seen more than a few that couldn't be made acceptable regardless of any "going over."
I'm also not speaking of Vickers solely, in fact I wasnt speaking of him at all.
I have seen more than a few that have worked fine out of the box. Thats not to say the WASR series hasnt been without its problems, but I will say when you get one that runs, it will run. The Henderson Defense certified WASRs which were gone over were known to run just fine, and capable of reasonable AK accuracy. While I will say the SGL series is much better than the WASRs, the SGLs arent without their problems from time to time.
I just don't think IMO that it is worth it to try and fix one up when you could just get a SGL-21.
While I would agree, the problem is you, me, we havent had our hands on this particular rifle. Until we do, its prudent to hold off with comments condemning them.
I'm also not speaking of Vickers solely, in fact I wasnt speaking of him at all.
I have seen more than a few that have worked fine out of the box. Thats not to say the WASR series hasnt been without its problems, but I will say when you get one that runs, it will run. The Henderson Defense certified WASRs which were gone over were known to run just fine, and capable of reasonable AK accuracy. While I will say the SGL series is much better than the WASRs, the SGLs arent without their problems from time to time.
I was simply alluding to the fact that I knew what you were talking about and I cited Vickers as an example.
While I would agree, the problem is you, me, we havent had our hands on this particular rifle. Until we do, its prudent to hold off with comments condemning them.
I don't see how putting new furniture and a different US barrel will fix most of the problems I've seen with WASRs. But I understand your point that we haven't seen "this" rifle.
never had any of the earlier wasrs that were known to have some issues, you know what im talkin about. but i have 3 and goin on 4 total romy ak type variants, why i have romys and no saiga or arsenal, well for one they currently import them as close to a true type akm style rifle from the cugir factory which i am looking for, not no hunting style rifle that you have to convert yourself or have another company put it together at a higher cost, and dont even care if its from the mother land russia. romys gives u.s consumers more choices, at a good price. unless mother russia imports them to a close type akm style rifle not no hunting ak, then i will buy one, but thats just me. if i wanted a quality ak type from the factory i would skip the saigas and arsenal and get a vepr even though their not true to an oringinal akm style, because they quality of the veprs exceeds the saigas and arsenals.
crazymoose
12-23-11, 16:14
Those side-folding wire stocks have to be the worst stock I've ever used on any gun. Bought a couple in the days when they were cheap. Took them off after one range trip. Words can't describe how bad the ergonomics are. A thick metal wire pressed against your jaw channeling all the recoil vibrations into your head just isn't very pleasant.
Those side-folding wire stocks have to be the worst stock I've ever used on any gun. Bought a couple in the days when they were cheap. Took them off after one range trip. Words can't describe how bad the ergonomics are. A thick metal wire pressed against your jaw channeling all the recoil vibrations into your head just isn't very pleasant.
Still better than the underfolder.
agreed with steyraug, its better than any underfolder at least for me also.
Those side-folding wire stocks have to be the worst stock I've ever used on any gun. Bought a couple in the days when they were cheap. Took them off after one range trip. Words can't describe how bad the ergonomics are. A thick metal wire pressed against your jaw channeling all the recoil vibrations into your head just isn't very pleasant.
worst for some and not so for others, as i had one on my romy rpk, when i shoot w/irons i have no problems with it on my cheek, i also have a vz58 w/metal side folder and no problems shooting with it. but you do know nowdays theres endless options outhere for them right. im keeping the wirefolder when my rifle comes in cause just ordered one of these today
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/images1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/images.jpg
worst for some and not so for others, as i had one on my romy rpk, when i shoot w/irons i have no problems with it on my cheek, i also have a vz58 w/metal side folder and no problems shooting with it. but you do know nowdays theres endless options outhere for them right. im keeping the wirefolder when my rifle comes in cause just ordered one of these today
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/images1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/images.jpg
That's kinda cool.
From Aim web site: "heat-treated, stamped receiver to military specifications"
Who's "MILITARY SPECS"???
ForTehNguyen
12-24-11, 09:08
worst for some and not so for others, as i had one on my romy rpk, when i shoot w/irons i have no problems with it on my cheek, i also have a vz58 w/metal side folder and no problems shooting with it. but you do know nowdays theres endless options outhere for them right. im keeping the wirefolder when my rifle comes in cause just ordered one of these today
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/images1.jpg
put one of these on my AMD 65 and its the best mod that you can do to it, has true cheek weld now
ForTehNguyen
12-24-11, 09:23
guy on ARF has one, posted some groups at 50 yards
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1264119_Finally_got_a_TactiCool_AK__Range_Report_pg_2_.html&page=2#i31453124
so can this rear folding stock be swapped out for a different one like an ACE folder? I dont know much about AK stock mounting options.
Seems like some poster there are appologists for poor quality. On the second page there is a post by the original poster that indicates that he shot it at 50 yards and could not hit paper because the front sight was canted so badly, but he bought a primary arms micro dot and got groups he was happy with.
Myself, I would be POed that the gun came with canted sights that made it unable to hit the target at 50 yards.
Seems like some poster there are appologists for poor quality. On the second page there is a post by the original poster that indicates that he shot it at 50 yards and could not hit paper because the front sight was canted so badly, but he bought a primary arms micro dot and got groups he was happy with.
Myself, I would be POed that the gun came with canted sights that made it unable to hit the target at 50 yards.
reading it also and was like wt.. i would pissed also. i wonder if he knows the rear sight is also adjustable for windage, and maybe its way off, he does not even mention of an attempt to figure what might be the problem, but he ended up buying a reddot and says the rifles has run 100%, but then cant hit paper at 50y w/irons:confused:
TOS? Tarded Or Stupid?
Some people (not all) are just to proud to admit a mistake, might make them look bad to themselves. Some people (like my EX) just wouldn't think of admitting to being wrong. And some just have their mind made up, but want one glimmer of reassurance, and that is all they will see. They got what the set out to get. Then there are those with a limited budget, and would rather have 5, or more, less expensive ones, than one or two well built reliable ones.
When the posters that are very well educated/trained/adversed in, and know a lot about guns and operating systems don't even reply, that might tell one something about what is in question.
crazymoose
12-28-11, 03:14
worst for some and not so for others, as i had one on my romy rpk, when i shoot w/irons i have no problems with it on my cheek, i also have a vz58 w/metal side folder and no problems shooting with it. but you do know nowdays theres endless options outhere for them right. im keeping the wirefolder when my rifle comes in cause just ordered one of these today
I like that idea. Might turn the wire side folder into a really useable stock. Still, with the options you mention, two stand out to me:
1)The modern polymer side folders.
2)For rifles with the regular rear trunnion, the VLTOR AR stock adapter.
These two types are the only way I roll with AKs nowadays.
That looks like a Draco FSB/GB. Makes sense, since it's a Romanian blaster. Still... When you can get an Arsenal, why bother?
worst for some and not so for others, as i had one on my romy rpk, when i shoot w/irons i have no problems with it on my cheek, i also have a vz58 w/metal side folder and no problems shooting with it. but you do know nowdays theres endless options outhere for them right. im keeping the wirefolder when my rifle comes in cause just ordered one of these today
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/images1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/images.jpg
I'm curious about this, never seen it before. Who sells this?
ForTehNguyen
12-29-11, 11:30
I'm curious about this, never seen it before. Who sells this?
http://www.amd65tech.com/expertise.html
I'm curious about this, never seen it before. Who sells this?
Aimsurplus sells them
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1COM10762SF&name=M%2bM+Inc.+M10+7.62x39+Rifle&groupid=11
You can roll the dice on one of those and you may get a good one or a POS, or you can buy a known quality rifle such as an SGL21..take your pick. Chose wisely.
You can roll the dice on one of those and you may get a good one or a POS, or you can buy a known quality rifle such as an SGL21..take your pick. Chose wisely.
sorry man i did choose wisely, having 4 now total romy/cugir built ak type i am very pleased with their aks, sorry saiga/arsenal my moneys on the romys, heck cugir type rifles have given me more choices on aks than saiga/arsenal has and the best part at a price range that i can afford:smile: and the best part none of them were a POS
The thing I always questioned on the Romanian rifles was the construction quality of the receiver.
Even back in the SAR days I saw a few that had trunnions installed too far forward or too far back. I even saw one where a Century monkey had beaten the receiver inward above the magazine catch instead of filing the catch down so that a magazine would lock in. This resulted in rounds being fed into the breachface about 50% of the time.
I haven't heard enough good things about US made AK barrels yet to begin to trust them.
I agree with everything Tom Fineis said about the "M10" the OP referenced here though. If the receiver and barrel were ok, the fact that it has the Draco gasblock would be a nice advantage and would make it into a great project rifle.
I just saw Atlantic firearms is selling one of the versions and they checked them out before agreeing to sell them. Atlantic would stand behind the gun if it wasn't up to snuff, so that would take away the concern about the obvious issues with canted sights etc. I'm guessing we will see more of these and get a better idea just how good or how bad they are. I wasn't impressed with the first reports on Arf.com.
buckshot1220
02-12-12, 20:24
I don't begrudge anyone for trying one out. To the unsuspecting eye they have all the go fast goodies that make it marketable to consumers. Absence of magwell dimples and a U.S. made barrel kind of kill the deal for me. As of yet, I really haven't seen many AK's with stateside barrels worth spending money on, but we will have to wait and see how this one is. Interestingly it mentions that it is a hammer-forged barrel, correct me if I'm wrong but when WASR's first started getting U.S. barrels weren't they button rifled and many not chrome lined?
At worst, if it did turn out to be a POS for the new owner, they could probably sell it at the LGS/forum for a small financial loss and a new found respect for the albeit higher priced examples.
Personally, I'd be much quicker to drop the coin on another pre-89 import or new SGL and upgrade as I saw fit.
ETA: I've screwed around with enough "cheaper" AK's (both my own and friend's) to make said comments.
having put a about 200 rounds through my m10 i could say its gtg, at least for me. not one single failure of any kind, no canted sights, its ak accurate enough, actually feels lighter guestimation of 6lbs as advertised. even with the shorter sight radius its still ak accurate enough, at least for me. heck even with my slidfire stock its very much controllable and fun as hell, glad i got this over the saiga;) no stinkin conversion needed:)
having put a about 200 rounds through my m10 i could say its gtg, at least for me. not one single failure of any kind, no canted sights, its ak accurate enough, actually feels lighter guestimation of 6lbs as advertised. even with the shorter sight radius its still ak accurate enough, at least for me. heck even with my slidfire stock its very much controllable and fun as hell, glad i got this over the saiga;) no stinkin conversion needed:)
Could you do an accuracy test for us. Maybe something other than Wolf, at a 100 yards if possible when you get the chance.
KalashniKEV
02-14-12, 14:16
glad i got this over the saiga;)
OMGoodness... I hope that wink means what I take it to mean.
Could you do an accuracy test for us. Maybe something other than Wolf, at a 100 yards if possible when you get the chance.
LOL... yeah, with the "slidfire" installed too, please.
chapperjoe
02-14-12, 14:51
these do have romanian barrels, that was the first thing I asked when they came out.
having put a about 200 rounds through my m10 i could say its gtg, at least for me. not one single failure of any kind, no canted sights, its ak accurate enough, actually feels lighter guestimation of 6lbs as advertised. even with the shorter sight radius its still ak accurate enough, at least for me. heck even with my slidfire stock its very much controllable and fun as hell, glad i got this over the saiga;) no stinkin conversion needed:)
200 rounds isn't much of a shake down run for a rifle I'd trust my life with. And why buy a side folder to use a slidefire on? I sure hope I"m missing the sarcasm here.
200 rounds through one rifle is a couple hours at the range since I usually bring several guns. Total I can go through 500-800 rounds in one trip but there is a good amount of rimfires in there too. 200 rounds is not even getting started for "proving" an weapon.
I have a wire side folder. Not the greatest but for the price you get a really solid stock. I'm going to have to get one of those cheek pieces though.
Fuzzy-Reticle
02-14-12, 21:32
I have not shot one. They are made here in Colorado and I have handled them many times. I would not buy one. The rails are UTG, aka shit. The best part of these are the Tapco triggers. Essentially they take WASR10 rifles and Draco C parts kits and create this abortion. If this was made with quality parts from someone like Mark Krebs or Arsenal it would be a great carbine and if they changed that mommy dearest coat hanger stock. The mag well looks worse on these than on any WASR I have ever seen.
IMHO you would be much better off purchasing one of the AMD65 rifles from Century or one of the Vz58 types from Century rather than this.
OMGoodness... I hope that wink means what I take it to mean.
LOL... yeah, with the "slidfire" installed too, please.
sure will post a pic just for ya
sorry, got somethin in my eye
to the op and those who are interested in this particular variant, some pics and range results, since i got the m10. obviously some mods to my liking
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/053-3.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/015-7.jpg
first shots outa the m10, starting at 25y
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/020-1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/019-7.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/kadiindo/018-5.jpg
They look like decent rifles, but they don't really have anything that justifies buying one over a WASR imo.
They look like decent rifles, but they don't really have anything that justifies buying one over a WASR imo.
dont get me wrong i like the wasr 1063, just decided the m10 over it at the time. as a matter of fact my 1063 should be in this week
reasons justifying getting the m10 first over the 1063
1. its definatley lighter than your standard akm rifle
2. rpk rear sight adj. for windage, without touching the fsp, just adjusted the rear for windage, and elevation, now hitting center of my target at 50y.
3. always wanted a side-folder, rarely you find a company offering this on a new rifle
4. always liked the fs/gb as a one piece, but usually other rifles that have them are in the 1k range or need a gunsmith to add one on, if you can find one.
5. made from all new parts
dont get me wrong i like the wasr 1063, just decided the m10 over it at the time. as a matter of fact my 1063 should be in this week
reasons justifying getting the m10 first over the 1063
1. its definatley lighter than your standard akm rifle
2. rpk rear sight adj. for windage, without touching the fsp, just adjusted the rear for windage, and elevation, now hitting center of my target at 50y.
3. always wanted a side-folder, rarely you find a company offering this on a new rifle
4. always liked the fs/gb as a one piece, but usually other rifles that have them are in the 1k range or need a gunsmith to add one on, if you can find one.
5. made from all new parts
Perhaps it is a better rifle quality then the WASR-10. You're right about the weight. According to Atlantic, it's lighter then a WASR. I really wish they didn't bother putting the TAPCO FCG. There's no purpose as the rifle already has US made furniture,US muzzle brake, and US made magazine. That's more then enough compliance parts.
Tapco G2 FCG is actually a really good item. I would MUCH rather use a G2 and com-block mags than the other way around.
Does anyone have a final word on if the barrels are original Romanian or are they US? I know they are said to be chrome hammer forged - but I would like to know if they are US or Romanian made.
Tapco G2 FCG is actually a really good item. I would MUCH rather use a G2 and com-block mags than the other way around.
The triggers themselves feel great, but I tried one of them on my AK's and they feel way too light. I don't really trust anything TAPCO either. I'm fairly certain the barrels are Romanian made. If the WASR-10's being imported now have Romanian barrels, then I don't see why this wouldn't.
lloydkristmas
02-15-12, 19:16
The triggers themselves feel great, but I tried one of them on my AK's and they feel way too light. I don't really trust anything TAPCO either. I'm fairly certain the barrels are Romanian made. If the WASR-10's being imported now have Romanian barrels, then I don't see why this wouldn't.
I thought that current WASRs do NOT have Romy barrels anymore? Arent they US made now? I could be wrong, I dont follow WASR news, but I remember this popping up a while back and there being a big outcry amongst some of the AK guys on another site
I thought that current WASRs do NOT have Romy barrels anymore? Arent they US made now? I could be wrong, I dont follow WASR news, but I remember this popping up a while back and there being a big outcry amongst some of the AK guys on another site
1 or 2 years ago, they announced that all new WASR's would have newly made Romanian made barrels because of the barrel ban. They wouldn't have surplus barrels anymore because they were tookin off of MG's. Hence the reason why parts kits do not come in with barrels anymore.
lloydkristmas
02-15-12, 20:09
Ahh ok gotcha. Dont know where I got the idea that they were forced to use US made barrels now. Thanks.
I have not shot one. They are made here in Colorado and I have handled them many times. I would not buy one. The rails are UTG, aka shit. The best part of these are the Tapco triggers. Essentially they take WASR10 rifles and Draco C parts kits and create this abortion. If this was made with quality parts from someone like Mark Krebs or Arsenal it would be a great carbine and if they changed that mommy dearest coat hanger stock. The mag well looks worse on these than on any WASR I have ever seen.
IMHO you would be much better off purchasing one of the AMD65 rifles from Century or one of the Vz58 types from Century rather than this.
You have no idea what your talking about. These rifles are built in Romania and the magwells are opened up and the 922R parts are installed.
The shitiest parts on these rifles are the US made and chinese parts....save the G2 triggers.
Coop
You have no idea what your talking about. These rifles are built in Romania and the magwells are opened up and the 922R parts are installed.
The shitiest parts on these rifles are the US made and chinese parts....save the G2 triggers.
Coop
no kiddin, somethin just fuzzy about his post.....LOL
Took it to the range today. Sighted in the iron sights first, then mounted a Truglo 30MM red dot on the rail. All mags fed flawlessly after the mods( additional tapcos would not lock in, metals and original tapco locked fine). Put about 100 rounds of Tula 122 gr HP through without one single fail. I was getting about 3-3.5 MOA at 100 yds repeatedly. Not bad with a 5 MOA cheapo $40 red dot. I banged the 18x18 (or maybe 16x16 I did not go out to it) 200 yd steel plate at the range 36 out of 40. May not impress the match shooters, but I thought was pretty good considering the Red dot almost completely covered the plate at that range.
All in all, I am quite impressed with this weapon. It is becoming my favorite especially since M855 is running around 50 cents a round, and the Tula is about 27 cents! A couple of my ARs are going to get jealous.
I am interested to see what it can do with a 4-12x42 Vortex. I am confident I can shrink that MOA with a better optic. We shall see...
No opinions, just results...:p
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