View Full Version : Glock 17
I recently acquired a very-barely used Glock 17, everything stock. I put up a thread a couple months ago about trading off a Glock 19 for a SIG p239 because I couldn't hit the side of the proverbial barn with the 19. Not being one to back down from a challenge, I got the 17. My groups were pretty tight, although a bit low and left. I am thinking there was something wrong with that 19 and the issues weren't all mine. I am really enjoying the 17 and will likely use it for my concealed carry gun. Thanks to all who chimed in, and thanks to the few of you who PM'd me about sticking with the Glock.
Sweet purchase! If you want to see if it is you that is making the gun shoot low and left then you can try shooting off of a sandbag. Go buy a sand tube for like $3, then bring it to the range and rest the front of the pistol on the sandbag. This way it removes most of the shooter error and you can tell if you are dipping or pulling the gun when you pull the trigger.
Have fun with your Glock, I love those things!
Littlelebowski
12-24-11, 08:13
It's you, not the gun. Dry fire.
It's you, not the gun. Dry fire.
Ordinarily I would agree; however, that G19 was crap in my hands and I could not shoot a decent group, even at close range. That was the ONLY handgun which I shot that poorly. I got it used with some self-modifcation from the previous owner. Given that I have shot every other pistol much better, better groups at longer distances, I have to deduce that in that particular instance it was the gun and not me. It seems to me, if it was all on me, I would suck across the board. Now shooting good groups but low and left, that is on me, and I fully intend to dry fire.
FightingTupperware
12-25-11, 15:00
[QUOTE=chuckman;1177856] That was the ONLY handgun which I shot that poorly.
i have herd of Glock slides cracking before and throwing accuracy out the window. but that is rare and the guns that cracked on were fired 1/4 of a million times (maybe more)
I've shot my Glock alot and love it. the old 17 is tried and true
[QUOTE=chuckman;1177856] That was the ONLY handgun which I shot that poorly.
i have herd of Glock slides cracking before and throwing accuracy out the window. but that is rare and the guns that cracked on were fired 1/4 of a million times (maybe more)
I've shot my Glock alot and love it. the old 17 is tried and true
About how many rounds is that would you say?:rolleyes:
1st Glock I ever got was a lemon and was piss poor in the accuracy department. Traded it back in on something else and got a G34 a couple of years later. Still got and carry it to this day. Best gun I ever bought.
So always give it another try.
Heavy Metal
12-25-11, 21:00
Should have let someone else shoot it. Especially a Glock shooter, to rule out the weapon.
FightingTupperware
12-26-11, 00:40
[QUOTE=FightingTupperware;1178668]
About how many rounds is that would you say?:rolleyes:
honestly i have no idea. my friend and idpa master class shooter broke his once. he noticed a fine crack in the slide and when he talked to Glock they wanted it back and then sent him a new one. (not exactly something Glock would want to get around but they did him right.)
packinaglock
12-26-11, 08:09
Should have let someone else shoot it. Especially a Glock shooter, to rule out the weapon.
True, I have a buddy at work that used to complain about his G26 not being very acurate. I went to the range with him one day, from my stall I could see him hitting all over the siloette firing slow. He stepped over to my stall and said "that thing sure isn't very acurate". I emptied my G27 and stepped over to his stall, loaded a mag and put them all in the red at a fairly brisk pace. I set the gun back down and said the gun is fine. I've never heard another word about that gun not being acurate.
[QUOTE=duece71;1178800]
honestly i have no idea. my friend and idpa master class shooter broke his once. he noticed a fine crack in the slide and when he talked to Glock they wanted it back and then sent him a new one. (not exactly something Glock would want to get around but they did him right.)
Sorry to sound sarcastic, it just seems that if a crack happens in that amount of rounds fired, I would say that is good if not excellent for any firearm. When I see large numbers like that without substantial evidence, its hard to take the statement seriously. I am glad to hear that Glock did your friend right as I own 2 Glocks myself.
FightingTupperware
12-26-11, 09:22
[QUOTE=FightingTupperware;1178927]
Sorry to sound sarcastic, it just seems that if a crack happens in that amount of rounds fired, I would say that is good if not excellent for any firearm. When I see large numbers like that without substantial evidence, its hard to take the statement seriously. I am glad to hear that Glock did your friend right as I own 2 Glocks myself.
no thats fine.
i have a few Glocks as well and i was as shocked as anyone when i herd that his had failed.
blasternank
12-26-11, 09:50
My dad had a 19 and finally got rid of it as it's accuracy was not good at all. He loves his 17 as do I and haven't had any complaints on it at all.
shooting Glocks accurately is much easier compared to some of the other guns I've shot.
Almost too easy...
I had a similar problem with a Glock 23. I couldn't hit anything with it. Yet with a Glock 27 I was dead on. It drove me nuts.
Ultimately I traded the G23 to a buddy for his G22.
I had a similar problem with a Glock 23. I couldn't hit anything with it. Yet with a Glock 27 I was dead on. It drove me nuts.
It's not uncommon that people shoot the subcompacts better than the larger frames. So common, that some instructors use the subs as remediation tools.
Well, gentlemen, my groups continue to tighten and I am increasing my range. I think I have a winner; so much so I got another G17 so that I can work on one weapon type and become that much more proficient. One gun I have attached a TLR1 for HD (for those of you who know Durham, NC, you understand...), and the other I will CC.
Ballistic Agency
12-26-11, 13:02
It's not uncommon that people shoot the subcompacts better than the larger frames. So common, that some instructors use the subs as remediation tools.
I'm curious as to which instructors do that.
It's not uncommon that people shoot the subcompacts better than the larger frames. So common, that some instructors use the subs as remediation tools.
I found it interesting because with a G22/G35/G27, no problems. Put a G23 in my hand and I don't do as well.
The G23 has a different grip profile than the full size weapons.
It may change the angle at which your trigger finger engages the trigger.
Different strokes for different folks.
polymorpheous
12-26-11, 16:29
I was pretty dead on with my 17 with factory nights sights.
I recently switched them out for a set of Warrens...
Now I'm shooting low and to the left.
I have a 26 as well, (still with the factory plastic sights), and I shoot well with it.
I will be switching to a set of Warrens on the 26.
I'm wondering if I will shoot low and to the left with the 26 as well.
I've got work to do to overcome this.
When the Gen 4 G19's 1st came out i bought one. I had no issues with it except it was not as accurate as my Gen 3 G19. So i sold the Gen 4 and still have the Gen 3.
When the Gen 4 G19's 1st came out i bought one. I had no issues with it except it was not as accurate as my Gen 3 G19. So i sold the Gen 4 and still have the Gen 3.
Define not as accurate.
Define not as accurate.
Ditto.
I have a Gen 4 19 and it's very accurate, it's just a little difficult for me to shoot fast because the trigger is pretty stiff.
I'm curious as to which instructors do that.
We've discussed it here before. I don't know of any names you'd know that are doing it. Give it a try.
I found it interesting because with a G22/G35/G27, no problems. Put a G23 in my hand and I don't do as well.
The G23 has a different grip profile than the full size weapons. It may change the angle at which your trigger finger engages the trigger. Different strokes for different folks.
I like and carry a G23, but folks do seem to find that it either works for them, or doesn't. Shooters can be trained into it, but it's a tougher curve than the larger (and smaller) frames.
Curiously, such quirks are absent in the G19. I think the G23 draws it issues from something in the combination of the recoil attributes of the 40SW and the gripping properties.
Define not as accurate.
Tighter groups from the Gen 3, when shot back to back with the Gen 4, at the same distances. Both recent production G19's.
Sometimes people just dont shoot a particular pistol well. My brother got a new glock 21 and we went shooting. Honestly at 7yds he couldn't keep all his shots on an 8 inch pie plate, it was so bad he just admitted he couldn't hit anything with it and asked me to try it. Same gun l held 3-4 inch inch groups shooting fast.
He then switched to my pistols, he shot a g19, sig pro, mp40, 1911, cz 75, even a tiny polish p64 and he shot them all pretty good (considering he rarely shoots pistols).
In my experience (and im no expert) its not the gun.
Tighter groups from the Gen 3, when shot back to back with the Gen 4, at the same distances. Both recent production G19's.
Can you elaborate? Was this shot from a rest?
Distance? Ammunition used? Barrel temperature? Multiple shooters? Recoil spring weights? Trigger weights?
I am asking because my testing has shown no discernible accuracy difference between 2009-2011 generation 3 and generation 4 guns. Now, having said that, there WILL be some variation since these things are mass produced tupperware that is seemingly plagued by QC issues as of late.
I would be interested to see some numbers.
For example.
With both my generation 4 G19 and G17 the guns are mechanically able to put down 2 inches at 25 yards with 127 grain +p+ Winchester ammo.
Realistically i can only shoot 3-5 inch groups on a REALLY good day unsupported at 25 yards.
We have a generation 3 G17 that put down a two inch, five shot group at 50 yards...granted, it had a red dot but still. :) This was also with 115 grain PMC 9mm.
Can you elaborate? Was this shot from a rest?
Distance? Ammunition used? Barrel temperature? Multiple shooters? Recoil spring weights? Trigger weights?
I am asking because my testing has shown no discernible accuracy difference between 2009-2011 generation 3 and generation 4 guns. Now, having said that, there WILL be some variation since these things are mass produced tupperware that is seemingly plagued by QC issues as of late.
I would be interested to see some numbers.
For example.
With both my generation 4 G19 and G17 the guns are mechanically able to put down 2 inches at 25 yards with 127 grain +p+ Winchester ammo.
Realistically i can only shoot 3-5 inch groups on a REALLY good day unsupported at 25 yards.
We have a generation 3 G17 that put down a two inch, five shot group at 50 yards...granted, it had a red dot but still. :) This was also with 115 grain PMC 9mm.
7 yards, shooting standing unsupported, with WWB 115gr FMJ's, i have no way of knowing the barrel temp, but it was early in the session, just me shooting and both G19's completely bone stock. Maybe the smaller grip or heavier trigger pull of the Gen 4 G19, had something to do with it?
I am thinking there was something wrong with that 19 and the issues weren't all mine.
If you still have the gun, you might try different ammunition. It can make a big difference.
i have herd of Glock slides cracking before and throwing accuracy out the window. but that is rare and the guns that cracked on were fired 1/4 of a million times (maybe more)
I worked on indoor ranges in the early 90s. A couple of our Glocks cracked through the ejection port. They’d be working fine and then just start throwing everything WAAAY out to the left. Glock replaced them without hesitation. I don’t know what the round counts on those guns were, but we had a couple of others that went well over 100k without issues.
Okie John
This should help:
http://home.earthlink.net/~potomac008/wheel.gif
Can you elaborate? Was this shot from a rest?
Distance? Ammunition used? Barrel temperature? Multiple shooters? Recoil spring weights? Trigger weights?
I am asking because my testing has shown no discernible accuracy difference between 2009-2011 generation 3 and generation 4 guns. Now, having said that, there WILL be some variation since these things are mass produced tupperware that is seemingly plagued by QC issues as of late.
I would be interested to see some numbers.
For example.
With both my generation 4 G19 and G17 the guns are mechanically able to put down 2 inches at 25 yards with 127 grain +p+ Winchester ammo.
Realistically i can only shoot 3-5 inch groups on a REALLY good day unsupported at 25 yards.
We have a generation 3 G17 that put down a two inch, five shot group at 50 yards...granted, it had a red dot but still. :) This was also with 115 grain PMC 9mm.
I noticed a small degradation in my accuracy when switching from a Gen3 19 to a slightly heavier trigger on my Gen4 17. This disappeared after a few hundred rounds with the Gen4. This may explain why some shooters new to the Gen4 feel there is an accuracy difference. BTW, I cheat and put an OEM - connector in all of my Gen4 guns.
EzGoingKev
01-07-12, 07:42
Curiously, such quirks are absent in the G19. I think the G23 draws it issues from something in the combination of the recoil attributes of the 40SW and the gripping properties.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't the G19 and G23 frame the same part?
I have a 23 in which I shoot fine... Better than my 22 to be honest. It fits my hand better due to the change in the "hump" but I can say the serrated trigger gets annoying and after extended periods annoyed my finger to the point of operator error on my end. So I bought a 17 smooth trigger and trigger bar. Polished it slightly and have been a happy camper since. Little things cause the body to react different. Even just the feel of a trigger face can cause body error. It's natural.
it's possible the 19 had a cracked locking block or something was "off" internally. Sounds like you're happy with the 17, good to hear.
my 19 is very accurate as long as i do my part.
Both my G19 and G17 shoot predominantly left and sometimes low. I too need to work to overcome this. I have not switched out the sights yet on either pistol. I have a feeling its all me and not the gun.....:rolleyes:
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't the G19 and G23 frame the same part?
You're right. It's how the grip angle and recoil interact, not a grip attribute unique to the G23. Sorry if that was unclear.
EzGoingKev
01-08-12, 06:56
OK - thanks for clearing that up.
Well, gentlemen, my groups continue to tighten and I am increasing my range. I think I have a winner; so much so I got another G17 so that I can work on one weapon type and become that much more proficient. One gun I have attached a TLR1 for HD (for those of you who know Durham, NC, you understand...), and the other I will CC.
Congratulations :D
I carry a Glock 19 with a TLR-1 for a duty weapon. It fits my hand better than a Glock 17.
No issues. Is it that bad in Durham, NC :confused:
I carry either the Glock 19 or a Kahr CW9 off duty.
No issues. Is it that bad in Durham, NC :confused:
Not sure of recent statistics but at one time not too long ago Durham had more gang-related shootings per capita. To be fair, 99% of crime-related shootings are within a 10 square block area, but like many places crime is creeping out and there have been a few shootings within 5 miles of where I live. And, my sis-in-law and mother-in-law live within those 10 blocks, so I always carry when we go to the 'hood.
In an effort to become very proficient with one gun type, now I have all Glocks except for a 1988 SIG p226. I have recieved trade offers for a Glock 26 and a Glock 23. So to stay consistent should I trade, and for which? Or should I keep it is it's a classic, even though I rarely shoot it?
In an effort to become very proficient with one gun type, now I have all Glocks except for a 1988 SIG p226. I have recieved trade offers for a Glock 26 and a Glock 23. So to stay consistent should I trade, and for which? Or should I keep it is it's a classic, even though I rarely shoot it?
Personally, I would keep the Sig unless you have a need for a small CC gun right now. The 26 can fill that niche for you. Since I don't much run much .40, I can't really comment much on the 23 other than to say that every time I run one, it reaffirms to me why I don't own one. I like 9mm and .45 better, so someone else is probably a better judge. I like to run something different every once in a awhile, so I would keep the Sig for that reason alone. Also, I don't believe it's a bad to be able to run several different systems. You run ARs, AKs and shotguns for that reason; what makes a pistol different?
Btw, I'm not saying you should rotate your carry gun on a regular basis. I'm saying it doesn't hurt to be able run something different should the necessity arise. Also, I do agree that at some point you need to settle in on one system for the bulk of your training, but you've already done that and, to me, there's nothing wrong with a little diversion now and again. Just my opinion. You should do what works for you.
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