AK Folding Stock Questions

[Matt O]

Forgive me if this was covered previously, I did a search but wasn't able to find anything specific to the two questions I have.

I'm thinking very much about getting an AK (again). Years ago I bought an Arsenal SA M7S, which was my first rifle, and then sold it for about $600 because I didn't know anything and needed the money at the time. Long story short, I have kicked myself for the stupidity of that decision ever since.

So now I'm in the market for an AK, likely an SGL 21, either the fixed or folding stock version. My questions are in regards to the value of the folding stock, which would appear to be quite versatile in regards to storage, ability to stash in a small bag for low profile transportation, etc.


Given that an AK-100 series stock, when locked into extension, functions exactly the same as a regular stock, are there any areas in which a standard, fixed stock is preferable? (price difference aside)
What is the general durability of the AK-100 series stock, locking mechanism, etc?


Thanks!

[TOrrock]

Forgive me if this was covered previously, I did a search but wasn't able to find anything specific to the two questions I have.

I'm thinking very much about getting an AK (again). Years ago I bought an Arsenal SA M7S, which was my first rifle, and then sold it for about $600 because I didn't know anything and needed the money at the time. Long story short, I have kicked myself for the stupidity of that decision ever since.

So now I'm in the market for an AK, likely an SGL 21, either the fixed or folding stock version. My questions are in regards to the value of the folding stock, which would appear to be quite versatile in regards to storage, ability to stash in a small bag for low profile transportation, etc.


Given that an AK-100 series stock, when locked into extension, functions exactly the same as a regular stock, are there any areas in which a standard, fixed stock is preferable? (price difference aside)
What is the general durability of the AK-100 series stock, locking mechanism, etc?


Thanks!

1) Not in my opinion.

2) The AK-74M/AK-100 series stocks were designed to survive issue to a Russian conscript, i.e. they will survive far more than a US civilian could put it through with regular use.

[SteyrAUG]

Well the side folding models, especially those with the full stock profile are vastly superior to other options such as underfolders and wire side folders. That said, unless you are constantly going in and out of vehicles or will be jumping out of planes, it is a feature you can easily do without and save yourself a few bucks.

Now if you are determined to buy one for "cool factor" I completely understand that and models such as the SGL21-94 don't have any real disadvantage when compared to models such as the SGL21-61 except of course for the difference in price.

It's just not significant enough of a feature for most people to justify the extra $400.00

[BaronFitz]

The only thing I can think of that the fixed stock would be superior for is the option to replace it with an Vltor adapter that would allow mounting an adjustable M4 stock.

The AK-100 series is rock solid, as Templar said. The only downside is that the length of pull is too long for use with armor, in my experience. The upside is that you have a very compact package that you can use with the stock folded in a pinch, and when it's folded and cased, it's too short to trip most people's "that thar's a rifle case" radar if in a proportionately sized case.

[CumbiaDude]

+3 or whatever we're up to now.

1. NO.
2. Tough as the rest of the rifle.

Of 2 AKs, both have folding stocks. One is an AK-100 folder, and the other is a triangle folder. The only reason I have the triangle is for cool factor and "correctness" (can't have an AK-100 folder with a wood fore-end, and I didn't want to buy a new full-set of black polymer). The AK-100 folder is more practical. Best stock for the AK.

[crazymoose]

The ability to be discreet can be very valuable. My side-folder equipped AKs will fit in tennis racket cases or other bags that don't scream "gun!" In a liberal state, this can save you some headache. Durability has never been an issue for me. Lockup is extremely solid.

[eodinert]

Don't forget, any rifle with the triangle side folder can be swapped out for the AK100 series plastic side folder very easily.

[CumbiaDude]

Don't forget, any rifle with the triangle side folder can be swapped out for the AK100 series plastic side folder very easily.This isn't actually correct. Most triangle folders use a 4.5mm pin and a 6° angle trunnion. AK-100 folders use a 5.5mm pin and a 4° trunnion. Putting a triangle on an AK-100 folder will be loose and floppy. Putting an AK-100 folder on a triangle trunnion won't fit in the pin and the angle would be wrong.

The exception to this is the NEW triangle folders from Russia, built specifically as an option to work on the new AK-100/Saiga trunnions. But you can't take a Tula krink and put a polymer stock on it without modifying things, or get a Bulgarian triangle and put it on an AK-100.

:)

edit: The above is correct for military stocks, but it was pointed out to me that K-var sold US-made polymer stocks that fit on the older style trunnions, so you actually could fit a polymer stock on a Krink or AKS-74 (using the US-made stock). Sorry 'bout that.

[rdm]

While we're on this topic, how does the ACE folder compare to the AK-100 series folder? I understand you have to cut the tang, and that the ACE stays folded by spring tension. Would it compare favorable to an Underfolder stock?

My understanding has always been in order of worst to best, this is pretty much how the ACE stacks up with other side folding stocks.

Wire folder
Crutch folder
Underfolder
ACE folder
AK-100 Series.


*Edit* I left out the weird Chinese Bakelite ones, and the Galil style folder present on early Chinese imports due to availability.

[Toyoland66]

While we're on this topic, how does the ACE folder compare to the AK-100 series folder? I understand you have to cut the tang, and that the ACE stays folded by spring tension. Would it compare favorable to an Underfolder stock?

My understanding has always been in order of worst to best, this is pretty much how the ACE stacks up with other side folding stocks.

Wire folder
Crutch folder
Underfolder
ACE folder
AK-100 Series.


*Edit* I left out the weird Chinese Bakelite ones, and the Galil style folder present on early Chinese imports due to availability.

The wire folder is much more ergonomic than the under folder ime.

[CumbiaDude]

Wire folder
Crutch folder
Underfolder
ACE folder
AK-100 Series.

Perhaps I shouldn't speak, since I haven't actually tried an underfolder, but my understanding is the wire folder (which I do have) is better than the underfolder because the wire folder locks up solid, while the underfolder is much more prone to wiggling. You get people who have wobbly wire stocks, too, but I think it's basically a given with an underfolder, while it's not an always-type-thing with the wires (also, not sure why you have crutch ranked higher than the wire, they're basically the same in capability, as far as I know).

As for ACE vs underfolder, again only talking from what others have said, but I'd say the ACE is better than an underfolder for the same reasons: more solid, better cheek weld (if you're into that). Not sure how an ACE would rank compared to an AK-100, though. Probably close. AK-100 stores the cleaning kit and locks closed, but ACE can be had in multiple lengths so you can fit it to your needs. AK-100 comes in only one :D

[warpigM-4]

I took a stock bastard sporter Model Saiga and turned it into a AK-103 .I used a template from a dummy receiver to make the cuts to the back of my receiver and for the front latch hook .I did this with a dremel and a drill it is not prefect around the front latch hook But it works and is a tough stock you could butt stroke people to the head all day long with no worries of it breaking:D

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/PFC-JB/DSCN0025.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/PFC-JB/Picture195.jpg

[SteyrAUG]

The wire folder is much more ergonomic than the under folder ime.

Seconded. Plus the wire folder gives you the option to switch to a fixed stock.

[The_War_Wagon]

I got a Yugo underfolder as a compromise, and primarily for storage considerations, As a truck gun. A sidefolder is better and stronger, but also wider with the stock folded, which may ALSO be a storage concern. It was in my case.

[Matt O]

It definitely seems like having the AK-100/triangle stock folding mechanism would be ideal; not at all necessary for a citizen, but ideal in terms of versatility.

Now I just need to figure out if I want to shell out the extra $350-400...

[Anchor Zero Six]

AK-100 stock is a great way to go...wish I would have my first go around with AK's. When I decided I wanted one, I had to have it yesterday and they(Arsenal side folders) were at the time unobtainium.

First venture into AK's was an Arsenal. I got the fixed stock and an ACE adapter. While I think they look decent enough compared to crapco and some others its still a bit Micky Mouse in regards to how it attaches but thats just my 2 cents. With the ACE you have two options one being a no mod adapter block that I think add too much length and looks like crap. Secons option is the internal receiver block. The internal block looks much more OEM but requires the cutting of the rear trunnion tang. The mod is not difficult but it will forever alter your rifle so you best be damn sure you like the ace stock before hand.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff193/AnchorStation/ak1.jpg

Second option is IMO hands down the best folding stock choice for an AK is authenticity isnt a concern. The stock is from a Polish Beryl (M-96) and they are fairly easy to come by on Gun Broker for 145-180 depending on condition. I paid 165 for this one which showed light use but overall was in great shape. This stock has a few advantages (IMO) over the others including the AK-100 stock. It installs without modifying the trunnion tang so you can switch back and fourth if you so choose. It attaches at three points (if you get the grip plate). Lastly and this was a biggie for me...it folds to the right without blocking the charging handle. This means you can operate the rifle with the stock folded to the right which is not possible with the ACE. Folding to the right IMO is better (for rt handed shooter) because your sling is not attached to the opposing side, its much easier to unfold when slung close to the body and it allows use of the side rail optic mount (which I never used). Anyways I think its something often overlooked and a great stock to consider.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff193/AnchorStation/IMAG0067.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff193/AnchorStation/IMAG0068.jpg

FWIW I'm planning on picking up another Arsenal in 5.45x39 and will install the Beryl stock on it as well.

[warpigM-4]

I payed about 150 for my triangle stock with trunnion and all hardware ,they are out there you just got to search and search and :Dse

[Anchor Zero Six]

Did you install it or have it done? If so who did it and what did that cost? If you did it yourself what equipment did you use?

Agree they are readily available but its not an easy modification for the home handyman and there will be an investment in some specialized tooling. Or one can have it done by a smith but the average cost I found was about 150.00 and then figure in refinishing as well. IMO better to just order the rifle with it and I think the cost ends up being about the same without the hassle of shipping and witing for the work to be done.

[warpigM-4]

Did you install it or have it done? If so who did it and what did that cost? If you did it yourself what equipment did you use?

Agree they are readily available but its not an easy modification for the home handyman and there will be an investment in some specialized tooling. Or one can have it done by a smith but the average cost I found was about 150.00 and then figure in refinishing as well. IMO better to just order the rifle with it and I think the cost ends up being about the same without the hassle of shipping and witing for the work to be done.

I used a Dremel and and a good drill with bits due that you have to drill into the bottom of the barrel trunnion to get the pin in to hold the front latch hook on the side .
I used a dummy AK receiver that was out fitted with the side folder and made my measurement and templates from that .there is only a small amount of the rear receiver that has to be removed I did this Myself in just a few hours

[warpigM-4]

Side-Folding AK-100 Stock

The "starting point" is the big hole, from which all the other measurements are made. That's why when you start to measure, you'll notice all measurements are in relation to that hole. It is referenced from the upper rivet hole, which is identical on all AKs.

That said, you COULD print this out and paste on the receiver, because it is to scale. Best to measure, however.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/PFC-JB/stock_plans.jpg

[CumbiaDude]

That template is great (I used it for mine), but be aware it's for an AKS-74 and has the different angle on the rear trunnion. Just hold your trunnion up to the receiver to get the correct angle (the first two rivet holes are in the same place so it's easy to line up) :)

[et2041]

Forgive me if this was covered previously, I did a search but wasn't able to find anything specific to the two questions I have.

I'm thinking very much about getting an AK (again). Years ago I bought an Arsenal SA M7S, which was my first rifle, and then sold it for about $600 because I didn't know anything and needed the money at the time. Long story short, I have kicked myself for the stupidity of that decision ever since.

Thanks!

Off topic, but I can relate to that feeling of stupidity. In summer of 1979 I purchased a brand new HK-91 for $408 tax included. I shot the hell out of it for one year and then sold it to a buddy for the same amount all because I wanted a new motorcycle.

We live to regret......

[Anchor Zero Six]

Side-Folding AK-100 Stock

The "starting point" is the big hole, from which all the other measurements are made. That's why when you start to measure, you'll notice all measurements are in relation to that hole. It is referenced from the upper rivet hole, which is identical on all AKs.

That said, you COULD print this out and paste on the receiver, because it is to scale. Best to measure, however.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/PFC-JB/stock_plans.jpg

Hats off to you Sir!

I have a full machine shop at my disposal and decided the mod was more troubble than it was worth. To do it with a rotary tool is an undertaking of exceptional attention to detail.