View Full Version : Tis the season to have to deal with Liberals...
Like many of you, I went a cousin’s house for a Christmas Day family get together. Normally, I am surrounded by Conservative, PRO GUN (even my Mother is a member of the NRA) family. Rarely (if ever) is there a liberal there. If there is one, they know that they are greatly outnumbered and keep quiet.
So my cousin is married to a PRO GUN guy and since this is his home, he invited his parents and his Uncle. A lot people were there so I was in the dining room area with my cousins in-laws (none of my family around). As is polite during the holidays, you make small talk with strangers. They asked me what I did for a living and I told them (Gun Runner for the MAN)! :D The subject quickly changed and we moved onto politics, specifically the Fast and Furious scandal that is currently going on.
And then he said it. The stereotypical anti-gun BS that "guns kill people." This is why that Border Patrol Agent died in Mexico (because the gun killed him), NOT the drug cartel guy pulling the trigger. :suicide:
So me being me, I looked him in the eye, leaned forward across the table and immediately fired back with the statement that if a drunk driver kills your child with a Ford, was it Ford's fault for making that car??? He was speechless and had this look of pure shock on his face. I got up and went into the other room.
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/293/ohsnapa.jpg
A little bit later, my Aunt (who must have heard some of the conversation) came up to me and said something that I found very interesting. She said, "They" meaning liberals, think that they are in the MAJORITY and that everyone thinks the way they do. So when they come across someone like me they are just shocked that we do not believe what they do. From the few liberals I know, this seems to be the case. It’s as if they live in their own little world and never venture out of it.
Sad.
C4
From the few liberals I know, this seems to be the case. It’s as if they live in their own little world and never venture out of it.
Sad.
Ah, yes....
I have plenty of Libs in my family. They live in and around Washington D.C. and truly live in a bubble. They work for govt, are very well paid, and have a deep and profound belief (blind faith?) that govt IS the solution.
I continually remind them that in between the liberal triad of Washington DC, LA, and NYC there is large appendage call the United States of America where people do not think like them and do not live like them.
There, but for the grace of God, go I.
Doc Safari
12-27-11, 10:45
... "They" meaning liberals, think that they are in the MAJORITY and that everyone thinks the way they do. So when they come across someone like me they are just shocked that we do not believe what they do. From the few liberals I know, this seems to be the case. It’s as if they live in their own little world and never venture out of it.
Sad.
C4
I learned that little factoid years ago. My so-called best friend slowly turned into a Michael Moore-type lunatron over the past 25 years. I can hardly stand to be around the guy anymore. And I think it's more his arrogance that he's "right" than his actual beliefs.
He convinced me over a number of years that people like that are a hopeless cause. I no longer try to steer any of them straight. When they finally succeed in destroying this country and those few of us who prepared for it start living and surviving the SHTF scenario, let them finally fall victim to what they caused. I won't open the door to help a single one of them.
I'm going to use the drunk driving Ford analogy next time I encounter a liberal.
Heavy Metal
12-27-11, 11:47
I'm going to use the drunk driving Ford analogy next time I encounter a liberal.
Except make it Subaru.
I'm going to use the drunk driving Ford analogy next time I encounter a liberal.
What is funny is that they drive a Ford (did not know that at the time). So it worked out perfectly. :D
C4
It's more pervasive than political lines. There's no true depth to ANY thought processes of the rank-and-file citizen.
Example: I'm 11 years older than my youngest brother, so I'm more like an itinerant uncle to him. During one of my rare visits home, he was still in middle school or was a HS freshman, and some class of his was making a study of philosophy.
Anyhow, I diddybopped in from whatever random lunacy I was engaged in at the time, to be met with the demand of "Can you tell me what you think of this glass of juice!?"
....and resting in the middle of the table was a half-glass of some reddish fluid. On the counter nearby was a pitcher of the same stuff, as well as the lidless jar in which Mom kept the sugar, a wooden spoon, and a torn packet of Fruit Punch Kool-Aid. Oh yeah!
In my head...SNAP! Ohhhhthisistheglass-half-full/glass-half-emptyquestionIsimplyMUSTscrewwithhim!
"Okay, I'll play your little freakin' game..." I picked up the glass, drank the contents, stated "Too much sugar!" and majestically sailed out of the kitchen.
An outraged cry of "YOU DID IT WRONG!!!" followed in my wake.
"I cannot be held responsible for your teacher's inability to accurately define the realm of subjectively correct answers to the assignment! It's philosphy; THINK about it."
I can't conclusively say whether or not I planted the suggestion that there were more answers to the question, as posed, than "half-full/half-empty," or that nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool ( :D ).... but when you cherry-pick information, without analysis, or simply gobble up what some petty demagogue feeds you for no better reason than sounds pretty good, somebody with more mental agility and grasp of cause/effect (add a dash of sarcasm for flavor!) is gonna bake your noodle.
Army Chief
12-27-11, 12:07
I just bought a Ford last year. Clearly, I'm a part of the problem.
AC
I just bought a Ford last year. Clearly, I'm a part of the problem.
AC
Yes. Your choice in auto's has killed more people than my brand of firearm. ;)
C4
It's more pervasive than political lines. There's no true depth to ANY thought processes of the rank-and-file citizen.
Example: I'm 11 years older than my youngest brother, so I'm more like an itinerant uncle to him. During one of my rare visits home, he was still in middle school or was a HS freshman, and some class of his was making a study of philosophy.
Anyhow, I diddybopped in from whatever random lunacy I was engaged in at the time, to be met with the demand of "Can you tell me what you think of this glass of juice!?"
....and resting in the middle of the table was a half-glass of some reddish fluid. On the counter nearby was a pitcher of the same stuff, as well as the lidless jar in which Mom kept the sugar, a wooden spoon, and a torn packet of Fruit Punch Kool-Aid. Oh yeah!
In my head...SNAP! Ohhhhthisistheglass-half-full/glass-half-emptyquestionIsimplyMUSTscrewwithhim!
"Okay, I'll play your little freakin' game..." I picked up the glass, drank the contents, stated "Too much sugar!" and majestically sailed out of the kitchen.
An outraged cry of "YOU DID IT WRONG!!!" followed in my wake.
"I cannot be held responsible for your teacher's inability to accurately define the realm of subjectively correct answers to the assignment! It's philosphy; THINK about it."
I can't conclusively say whether or not I planted the suggestion that there were more answers to the question, as posed, than "half-full/half-empty," or that nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool ( :D ).... but when you cherry-pick information, without analysis, or simply gobble up what some petty demagogue feeds you for no better reason than sounds pretty good, somebody with more mental agility and grasp of cause/effect (add a dash of sarcasm for flavor!) is gonna bake your noodle.
LOVE IT!
One time in college, I had to take a "diversity" class. Being Hispanic and having dealt with "much diversity" in my life, I thought it'd be interesting regardless of the requirement to take said class.
First day, I walk in to a classroom full of black football players. The prof then came in, he was also black. I was the fairest skinned individual in the room. No problem, I'm ok with that.
Unfortunately, the prof started off with race. Not a light introduction considering. He droned on for about a half an hour about racism, diversity, challenges, etc. He got stuck on one particular word though. Prejudice.
He finally asked the class if anyone in the room was prejudice. Sitting at the front of the class, I raised my hand. You could have heard a mouse fart were it not for all the chairs behind me squeaking a bit from their disdain for my answer. The prof got visibly frustrated and took a second to collect himself. He then asked why I was prejudiced and about what.
Being the smart ass that I am, I answered I'm prejudiced against people who say they have none. I went on to explain that many people have different prejudices and anyone that didn't raise their hand either doesn't understand the words meaning or they are lying to themselves because they've been brainwashed into believing the negative connotation of the word rather than understanding it. Got an A in the class and made some interesting friends to boot.
Most people who are afraid of guns, being liberal or not, simply don't have the proper understanding of guns and lack the ability to see past their own brainwashed, rose colored glasses... IMO, of course. ;-)
It's more pervasive than political lines. There's no true depth to ANY thought processes of the rank-and-file citizen.
This, the vast majority are simply apathetic repeat what the picture box said types.
I think people are more naturally inclined to start off afraid of guns, maybe not naturally but they are nurtured that way one way or another. When I bought my first gun I was living with an ex-gf who wanted it in a safe. I explained it would do us no good locked up in a safe, and that it would be loaded in the nightstand. That turned into on top of the nightstand. That turned into arms length at all times. Once she actually THOUGHT about it, it all made sense, but her first inclination was "OH MY **** GUN KILL IT WITH FIRE"
Belmont31R
12-27-11, 15:32
In my experience most liberals will end the debate/conversation once they are proven wrong about a belief of theirs. "We'll just have to agree to disagree" or "facts are facts and we're not going to change each others mind". They'll NEVER admit they are wrong about something especially the more devout they are. They are all for posting little "nuggets" about this or that but the second they are challenged on it, and then proven wrong they don't want to talk about it anymore. The bitchy ones will often turn to name calling to prove their point.
My life became much simpler when I unhitched many of my liberals relatives years ago, they simply weren't good people and I didn't need them adding problems to my life.
In my experience most liberals will end the debate/conversation once they are proven wrong about a belief of theirs. "We'll just have to agree to disagree" or "facts are facts and we're not going to change each others mind". They'll NEVER admit they are wrong about something especially the more devout they are. They are all for posting little "nuggets" about this or that but the second they are challenged on it, and then proven wrong they don't want to talk about it anymore. The bitchy ones will often turn to name calling to prove their point.
This is the outcome I get so many times when I get in an inevitable argument with a liberal.
I used to date a chick who was a bleeding liberal, vegetarian, gun hater, etc... By the time we broke up after almost a year she loved to shoot guns, ate a 20oz piece of RARE prime rib at Christmas, and was starting to understand why us right wingers act the way we act.
Its funny that there are more and more conservatives now days and less and less liberals(at least I think thats the way things are going) and not the other way around. If the liberal way of thinking was the correct way, dont you think the tides would be going in the other direction?
Voodoo_Man
12-27-11, 16:06
What to do when dealing with people like this...
I had a SGT that made it pretty simple in these situations, he said "trying to explain or talk only wastes your time, act or leave, those are the only two options."
I find truth in this often enough, especially when dealing with liberals. When I hear the bull start huffing, I walk away.
My life became much simpler when I unhitched many of my liberals relatives years ago, they simply weren't good people and I didn't need them adding problems to my life.
Well that's just no fun! I like to terrorize them! They see me coming and hide/runaway. :D
I really like to freak them out by telling them that I am not just any "gun dealer," I am the WORST KIND! I'm the one that sell MO-CHINE GUNS and "Silencers" and all that other crazy stuff they only see in movies. :fie:
Good, bad or ugly, I'm the guy with the gun and they are not.
C4
Good, bad or ugly, I'm they guy with the gun and they are not.
C4
My God, what a line of complete and total brilliance!!!! Grant, you have made my day, year and decade!!
Cheers my Brother!:neo:
The_War_Wagon
12-27-11, 17:24
Libtards... :rolleyes:
I do get a slight smile on my face, thinking of their demise. They'll be the ones who - no matter HOW they meet their end - will greet it with a deer-in-headlights look, and a confused girlish scream of, "WHUH?!?!?!" :eek:
I'm going to use the drunk driving Ford analogy next time I encounter a liberal.
Except make it Subaru.
If you know it's a liberal, you might have better luck using Toyota Prius!
Robb Jensen
12-27-11, 20:21
Not to get into a religion debate but the ones I don't get are the Atheists who celebrate Christmas.
Not to get into a religion debate but the ones I don't get are the Atheists who celebrate Christmas.
I'll bite.
Christmas is as much an "American" holiday as it is religious. Actually, I would argue it is far more a holiday than a religious thing. It's a time to be with family with spend a bunch of money and get a bunch of cool shit. I have loved Christmas my entire life and not a single time has it be even remotely religious. It's all about family and presents.
I would not be surprised that is about family and presents for more people than it is a day that wasn't Jesus' birthday.
EDIT- Now Easter I couldn't care less about, minus the time off work.
EDIT 2- I'm not a zealous atheist either, I'm just not religious and don't care.
Doc Safari
12-27-11, 21:09
The people I don't get are the liberal gun owners who continue to vote anti-gun people into office. I belonged to a gun club years ago and there was this one liberal from New York who kept getting the brunt of jokes and nasty comments because he'd sit there and spout a bunch of liberal horseshit while cleaning his hi-cap Glock or HK. The guy literally had a closet full of assault rifles but kept telling everyone how great New York was with its gun laws and whatever.
Funny thing is, the guy moved back to New York and happily sold off his pre-ban style guns and registered (or whatever the requirement was) his ban style assault rifles with the New York authorities before he could "emigrate" back there.
I'm thinking you can't fix Liberal just like you can't fix Stupid. :rolleyes:
RogerinTPA
12-27-11, 21:12
I have a sister who's a community organizer and pro Obama. Every time we meet, within 10 minutes, I'm ready to throw her out a ****in window.:bad:
Ever wonder when "they" are slapped in the face with cold hard facts, the get pissed, want to shout you down with brain washed, hear say/propaganda from the left, then try to get violent with you? I immediately sport a sinister grin and say something like "What are you gonna do? Teach me to smoke dope and grow organic veggies? Violence, is not your forte...it's mine". :jester:
buckshot1220
12-27-11, 21:23
I'm going to use the drunk driving Ford analogy next time I encounter a liberal.
Much more professional than the whole spoons making Rossie O'Donnell fat thingy.
Anyhoo, many are too far gone. Brainwashed by media, liberal-arts colleges and often their own parents who grew up burning draft cards. It is unfortunate that those who truly understand the Constitution and the foresight of our Founding Fathers are often the most berated.
Heavy Metal
12-27-11, 21:33
Actually, I would argue it is far more a holiday than a religious thing.
What word do you think is the root of the word 'holiday'?
Holy-Day----contraction=====Holiday.
Belmont31R
12-27-11, 21:49
Not to get into a religion debate but the ones I don't get are the Atheists who celebrate Christmas.
I view it more as a Winterfest type thing. I like the traditions of having lights and colorful things out during the often bleak winter months, and it doesn't have to be religious in nature to give gifts, have a tree, ect.
It doesn't do me any harm to share some things with the religious folks that I actually do enjoy with my family.
Robb Jensen
12-27-11, 22:01
I'll bite.
Christmas is as much an "American" holiday as it is religious. Actually, I would argue it is far more a holiday than a religious thing. It's a time to be with family with spend a bunch of money and get a bunch of cool shit. I have loved Christmas my entire life and not a single time has it be even remotely religious. It's all about family and presents.
I would not be surprised that is about family and presents for more people than it is a day that wasn't Jesus' birthday.
EDIT- Now Easter I couldn't care less about, minus the time off work.
EDIT 2- I'm not a zealous atheist either, I'm just not religious and don't care.
So you should really you call it "buylovedonesandreceivecoolstuffmas?" Because that's what it means to you. Christmas existed before Americans.
SeriousStudent
12-27-11, 22:37
I have a sister who's a community organizer and pro Obama. Every time we meet, within 10 minutes, I'm ready to throw her out a ****in window.:bad:
Ever wonder when "they" are slapped in the face with cold hard facts, the get pissed, want to shout you down with brain washed, hear say/propaganda from the left, then try to get violent with you? I immediately sport a sinister grin and say something like "What are you gonna do? Teach me to smoke dope and grow organic veggies? Violence, is not your forte...it's mine". :jester:
You, sir, are my hero. :D
It's a pity they cannot say things like "We are glad to see you home safe" and give you a hug. I had an aunt like that. When I was in the Corps, she always had to deliver her ration of crap.
I'm an usher in my church, where all the ushers are armed. We had a well-intentioned but looney member of the church bemoaning how terrible it was that all these guns were in society. She loved to come to church, because there "she felt safe from all that firepower."
I mentally did a quick tally. Within ten feet of her were four people carrying six pistols. We'd been talking about buying a pair of DD carbines for the church before she walked up......
Here in Texas we say things like "Bless her heart" instead of "Holy crap, what a nutball!"
Another useful exercise... Find a bludgeon of your choice and menace your liberal family member. Ask them which variable they think is in more urgent need of control...the bludgeon, or the person wielding it.
I'm an usher in my church, where all the ushers are armed. We had a well-intentioned but looney member of the church bemoaning how terrible it was that all these guns were in society. She loved to come to church, because there "she felt safe from all that firepower." I mentally did a quick tally. Within ten feet of her were four people carrying six pistols.
Similar situation in September at a small family restaurant in west-central Wisconsin. A group of us were eating, and a lady stopped at our table to chat for some reason. I think we were talking about current events. She mentioned the new CCW legislation for WI, and how the blood would run in the streets. Little did she know what was at the table in front of her.
So you should really you call it "buylovedonesandreceivecoolstuffmas?" Because that's what it means to you. Christmas existed before Americans.
If it makes you feel better we can just start calling it the Winter Solstice or the Festival of Mirth again (or any of another of other pagan festivals which were co opted). Jesus wasn't born on the 25th anyway.
Or perhaps you can simply come to terms with the fact that many of us are practicing traditions or recognizing heritage and not everyone is terribly religious...or religious at all.
What I don't understand is why "some" Christians spend so much time worrying about what everyone else is or isn't doing. As I understand Christianity, the purpose is to get yourself in order.
The_War_Wagon
12-27-11, 23:27
"What are you gonna do? Teach me to smoke dope and grow organic veggies? Violence, is not your forte...it's mine". :jester:
That SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO begs to be a sig line... :D
SeriousStudent
12-27-11, 23:30
Another useful exercise... Find a bludgeon of your choice and menace your liberal family member. Ask them which variable they think is in more urgent need of control...the bludgeon, or the person wielding it.
Similar situation in September at a small family restaurant in west-central Wisconsin. A group of us were eating, and a lady stopped at our table to chat for some reason. I think we were talking about current events. She mentioned the new CCW legislation for WI, and how the blood would run in the streets. Little did she know what was at the table in front of her.
Cheese isn't the only thing that gets curdled. Sometimes it's brains. :D
So you should really you call it "buylovedonesandreceivecoolstuffmas?" Because that's what it means to you. Christmas existed before Americans.
Actually, it existed before Christ. It was called the Winter Solstice and was celebrated by pagan society thousands of years before Christ. The Roman Church co-oped it from the pagan Roman holiday celebration Brumalia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brumalia
Most popular Christian holidays conveniently coincide with some other vastly more ancient pagan celebration of solar and lunar cycles.
What word do you think is the root of the word 'holiday'?
Holy-Day----contraction=====Holiday.
We all know exactly what I meant.
Actually, it existed before Christ. It was called the Winter Solstice and was celebrated by pagan society thousands of years before Christ. The Roman Church co-oped it from the pagan Roman holiday celebration Brumalia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brumalia
Most popular Christian holidays conveniently coincide with some other vastly more ancient pagan celebration of solar and lunar cycles.
No, it didn't. Brumalia or other "pagan" day may have existed, and the catholic fathers of yore may have purposefully placed Christmas on the same day to ease things in but that does not make Christmas predate Christ.
I am perfectly happy having atheists or those of other faith/religions celebrate a secular Christmas while I celebrate the birth of the Saviour because it gives us all common ground and common culture as a nation ( and indeed the Western world ) which is important for social harmony. Shared cultural traditions play an important role and we have that in Christmas, whatever you motivations for celebrating it.
Robb Jensen
12-28-11, 05:41
If it makes you feel better we can just start calling it the Winter Solstice or the Festival of Mirth again (or any of another of other pagan festivals which were co opted). Jesus wasn't born on the 25th anyway.
Or perhaps you can simply come to terms with the fact that many of us are practicing traditions or recognizing heritage and not everyone is terribly religious...or religious at all.
What I don't understand is why "some" Christians spend so much time worrying about what everyone else is or isn't doing. As I understand Christianity, the purpose is to get yourself in order.
I don't know where you got the mistaken impression that I feel/felt bad but I digress. How do you explain Atheists getting married in Christian churches? I see that quite often but think it's odd too. It about as silly as putting a Type-R sticker on a VW Jetta.
Grant
Besides being right you're funny! My 9 year old asked what I was reading and I read a few of these posts to him.
I continually remind them that in between the liberal triad of Washington DC, LA, and NYC there is large appendage call the United States of America where people do not think like them and do not live like them.
Or the liberal triad of Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, NC (Chapel Hill=east cost Berkley). People move here from around the country and assume that NC must be liberal because the Triangle (as it is called) is liberal. They are quite shocked when I tell them if you drive 30 miles in any direction you leave la-la land and enter parts of The South.
I'll bite.
Christmas is as much an "American" holiday as it is religious. Actually, I would argue it is far more a holiday than a religious thing.
Incorrect. Yes, it is true that a lot of people remove the TRUE meaning from the event and just use it as a reason to drink to much and buy things they cannot afford (which is sad).
Christmas MEANS Christ and refers to specifically to his birth and celebration of it. So if you are an atheist, you need not apply as you do not believe in Christ.
C4
I have a sister who's a community organizer and pro Obama. Every time we meet, within 10 minutes, I'm ready to throw her out a ****in window.:bad:
Ever wonder when "they" are slapped in the face with cold hard facts, the get pissed, want to shout you down with brain washed, hear say/propaganda from the left, then try to get violent with you? I immediately sport a sinister grin and say something like "What are you gonna do? Teach me to smoke dope and grow organic veggies? Violence, is not your forte...it's mine". :jester:
You mean there are more of these people (community orgnaizers)?? :rolleyes:
Good line at the end. Will have to use that one!
C4
Actually, it existed before Christ. It was called the Winter Solstice and was celebrated by pagan society thousands of years before Christ. The Roman Church co-oped it from the pagan Roman holiday celebration Brumalia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brumalia
Most popular Christian holidays conveniently coincide with some other vastly more ancient pagan celebration of solar and lunar cycles.
That is all well an good, but atheist's do not call it any of those things. They call it CHRISTMAS. I would have more respect for them if they just made up one VS following what Christians do.
C4
Grant
Besides being right you're funny! My 9 year old asked what I was reading and I read a few of these posts to him.
I know people do not realize this, but I am actually quite funny (shocker I know). :D
C4
What IS it with sisters, anyway? They somehow account for the sibling problems of any 2 brothers (based upon my tireless research as being the eldest of 4...do the math).
Mine somehow landed in the "guns = bad" camp. Part of her rude awakening came about when I went down a laundry list of seemingly-benign household items laying within arm's reach of me in the living room that I could use to demolish her (presuming that my hands weren't enough). She's like 70% nitwit otherwise, so I was less interested in changing her mind than I was in waking her to the idea of no dangerous weapons, only dangerous minds.
I was frustrated enough that showing her what a rolled-up Cosmo magazine could do to a watermelon turned out to be therapeutic, in addition to a teachable moment. I WANTED to hit HER, the stupid bint....
Voodoo_Man
12-28-11, 08:47
What IS it with sisters, anyway? They somehow account for the sibling problems of any 2 brothers (based upon my tireless research as being the eldest of 4...do the math).
Mine somehow landed in the "guns = bad" camp. Part of her rude awakening came about when I went down a laundry list of seemingly-benign household items laying within arm's reach of me in the living room that I could use to demolish her (presuming that my hands weren't enough). She's like 70% nitwit otherwise, so I was less interested in changing her mind than I was in waking her to the idea of no dangerous weapons, only dangerous minds.
I was frustrated enough that showing her what a rolled-up Cosmo magazine could do to a watermelon turned out to be therapeutic, in addition to a teachable moment. I WANTED to hit HER, the stupid bint....
Violence is never the answer.
;)
How do you explain Atheists getting married in Christian churches? I see that quite often but think it's odd too. It about as silly as putting a Type-R sticker on a VW Jetta.
Yea that one I don't get. Again marriage has become something more than a religious thing but I don't know why they would do it in a church. Her mom must want it :lol:
Robb Jensen
12-28-11, 08:55
Yea that one I don't get. Again marriage has become something more than a religious thing but I don't know why they would do it in a church. Her mom must want it :lol:
Me either. I think they should just 'own' being a non-believer.
What IS it with sisters, anyway? They somehow account for the sibling problems of any 2 brothers (based upon my tireless research as being the eldest of 4...do the math).
Mine somehow landed in the "guns = bad" camp. Part of her rude awakening came about when I went down a laundry list of seemingly-benign household items laying within arm's reach of me in the living room that I could use to demolish her (presuming that my hands weren't enough). She's like 70% nitwit otherwise, so I was less interested in changing her mind than I was in waking her to the idea of no dangerous weapons, only dangerous minds.
I was frustrated enough that showing her what a rolled-up Cosmo magazine could do to a watermelon turned out to be therapeutic, in addition to a teachable moment. I WANTED to hit HER, the stupid bint....
I am an Only Child (thank GOD). My wife (who is pro gun, has her CCW and owns a gun shop) has a sister and mother that are Anti-Gun. So I see a pattern here. :)
C4
Me either. I think they should just 'own' being a non-believer.
I have to wonder if they are some how assamed at being who they are (deep down knowing that they are wrong) OR they don't want anyone in the family to know so they get married in a Church just to go with the flow.
Its kind of like when a Gay man marries a woman. He is ashamed of what he is and doesn't want anyone to know. So he puts up a front for others to see.
Who knows....
C4
My wife (who is pro gun, has her CCW and owns a gun shop)....
That's awesome....I think I am in love with her! :)
Or the liberal triad of Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, NC (Chapel Hill=east cost Berkley). People move here from around the country and assume that NC must be liberal because the Triangle (as it is called) is liberal. They are quite shocked when I tell them if you drive 30 miles in any direction you leave la-la land and enter parts of The South.
Yep. I use to party like a rock star there in my Ft Bragg days because I couldn't stand all of mouth breathers that lurk around Fayetteville. I know a lot of guys who ultimately end up retiring there or Ashland.
I don't know where you got the mistaken impression that I feel/felt bad but I digress. How do you explain Atheists getting married in Christian churches? I see that quite often but think it's odd too. It about as silly as putting a Type-R sticker on a VW Jetta.
It didn't seem as if you were supporting the notion.
As far as atheists getting married in church, again tradition and cultural heritage. I can even do you one better, atheists who send their kids to religious schools for the "better programs."
That shit mystifies me. It's like me sending my kids to socialism camp and then bitching about socialism.
I have to wonder if they are some how assamed at being who they are (deep down knowing that they are wrong) OR they don't want anyone in the family to know so they get married in a Church just to go with the flow.
C4
Again, I think it is more a case of traditions and culture.
As a "for example" in my practice of various Japanese fencing methods there are many cultural trappings based upon Shinto and a ton of Shinto symbolism.
So while I may bow to the Kamiza in a formal dojo I am simply observing an ancient protocol and respecting the traditions these fencing methods came from but I am in no way an actual Shintoist.
I also don't have a closet belief in Amaterasu.
But it is kinda fun, the history of the gestures and their reasons is at times fascinating and I think it would be a shame to separate them from the martial methods I am learning as I think they are more interesting as a whole.
I sorta suspect atheist celebrating Christmas or getting married in a church are doing more or less the same thing.
I would have more respect for them if they just made up one VS following what Christians do.
C4
But... where in the Bible is the Christmas tree? Where did that tradition come from? Sorry but worshiping trees and such is flatly pagan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_log
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule
As an aside, pagan and atheist are not interchangeable. Pagans are distinctly religious.
That's awesome....I think I am in love with her! :)
Sorry, she is taken. ;)
C4
I can even do you one better, atheists who send their kids to religious schools for the "better programs."
Hey, at least they'd know that the etymological development of the word "holiday" stems from "holy day," unlike some...
Seriously, Sister Mary-Ghengis-Khan taught me that in, like, 5th grade.
But... where in the Bible is the Christmas tree? Where did that tradition come from? Sorry but worshiping trees and such is flatly pagan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule_log
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule
As an aside, pagan and atheist are not interchangeable. Pagans are distinctly religious.
The Christmas tree represents the Cross that Jesus was nailed to.
C4
But... where in the Bible is the Christmas tree? Where did that tradition come from? Sorry but worshiping trees and such is flatly pagan.
Who worships trees (in relation to Christmas)?
What is your point again?
The Christmas tree represents the Cross that Jesus was nailed to.
C4
Not really. While some Christians see it as a representation of the "tree of paradise", it also has pagan roots, especially Norse pagan roots.
Especially when one considers the first trees specifically associated with Christmas were lit on fire, I can't comprehend how it would be a symbol of the cross. If it were supposed to be the cross, Christians would have a large decorated cross in their home.
Christmas has evolved into a secular holiday with Santa, lights, etc. That is just fine as it allows everyone in our society a chance to celebrate. Some celebrate and focus on the Savior and his birth and the message of his life and mission and atonement. Others concentrate on Santa and lights. But it is a shared cultural experience and let's us all celebrate in some way. This is important. I think we would all (at least most of us) agree that "diversity" in your society and culture ends up being a bad thing when taken to extremes (like the PC and left do)*. A shared cultural tradition is important in cementing a society and culture together as a unit. When your society and culture is cemented together as a unit, you share the struggles and the fight *together* in an effort to make things better instead of being divided. (Which is why assimilation is important).
Most of the Western world shares Christmas as a time together. Let's celebrate that as a piece of this binding cultural glue. I'll let you have Santa Claus if I can have my Nativity Scene. And we can celebrate together, have the day off together, give gifts to our loved ones together, and feast together. It would be nice if everyone acknowledged the Savior. But it isn't going to happen, so let's not tear ourselves apart as a culture but find the common ground and run with it.
As an aside: Christmas (and Halloween, another co-opted pagan ritual by Christians which has evolved) are both getting more popular in Asia. When I first was in Japan in the early 2000s (always in Sept), you hardly saw a thing about Halloween. Now, we were there this past Sept 2011 and all the stores had tons of Halloween decorations. (And in 2009, when we were there in Sept and went to Disney Tokyo, it was fully decked out in Halloween.) Christmas is similar. You can see Christmas trees in Japan, buy Christmas cards, find Santa, and buy decorations. They have adopted mostly the Santa model since their cultural background is not Christian. But they are adopting this western tradition and holiday nevertheless in one form, slowly, but more and more. Same in Korea from what I can tell. I have a movie from Korea that shows some streets of Seoul decked out in Christmas trees, and Santa stuff, and people giving gifts (still a minority I am sure, but more than it was 50 years ago).
* People may celebrate Christmas differently, based on where their ancestors came from, or they may speak a language at home and English in public, or have private celebrations of holidays at home from the home country. That is fine. We are not all cookie cutters people. That sort of "diversity" is fine. But when our country has been successful, we have assimilated and assumed a common culture.
Not really. While some Christians see it as a representation of the "tree of paradise", it also has pagan roots, especially Norse pagan roots.
The roots don't really matter. What matters is people's interpretation of it now and its symbolism now.
Though I will admit, to not knowing that the tree represented the cross.
Especially when one considers the first trees specifically associated with Christmas were lit on fire, I can't comprehend how it would be a symbol of the cross. If it were supposed to be the cross, Christians would have a large decorated cross in their home.
The roots don't really matter. What matters is people's interpretation of it now and its symbolism now.
If the socialist took over and tried to turn Christmas into Santa Day and denied all Christian roots, I think some would say the roots mattered.
I have no problem accepting that Christmas borrows from many things, I think that actually adds to the enjoyment for most people. But we should remember the roots of all these things. We can acknowledge that the meaning of things can be changed but we can do that without being revisionists.
If the socialist took over and tried to turn Christmas into Santa Day and denied all Christian roots, I think some would say the roots mattered.
Which is a way of saying basically what I said: "What matters is people's interpretation of it now and its symbolism now." People would care because of its interpretation now.
If Norse pagans burned trees as a celebration of some sort, that is of little importance to people's Christmas traditions now.
It is certainly an interesting tidbit of information, but not germane to the current celebrations.
When I talk about the roots not mattering, I am talking about the various co-opted traditions that the Christian fathers took to advance their agenda of furthering the Christian faith back then. The roots of Christmas as a celebration of the birth of Jesus (irrespective of when he was actually born, the celebration of the fact has been established to be Dec 25) are part of the celebration for many is directly related to the current traditions and celebrations. The fact that a pagan celebration was co-opted, is interesting, but not important for the celebration today.
I am not saying to restrict or suppress that knowledge of pagan roots for some celebratory practices. But I am saying we should not lord that over people and try and force them to adapt or adopt or anything of the sort some sort of pagan thing or try and demean or belittle their traditions as ultimately being pagan.
I have no problem accepting that Christmas borrows from many things, I think that actually adds to the enjoyment for most people. But we should remember the roots of all these things. We can acknowledge that the meaning of things can be changed but we can do that without being revisionists.
Not really. While some Christians see it as a representation of the "tree of paradise", it also has pagan roots, especially Norse pagan roots.
Especially when one considers the first trees specifically associated with Christmas were lit on fire, I can't comprehend how it would be a symbol of the cross. If it were supposed to be the cross, Christians would have a large decorated cross in their home.
However it was viewed back then, no one knows (as we weren't there). My church teaches that it represents the cross and since "Christmas" is about a celebration of CHRIST'S B-Day, it is very fitting.
C4
The subject quickly changed and we moved onto politics, specifically the Fast and Furious scandal that is currently going on.
And then he said it. The stereotypical anti-gun BS that "guns kill people." This is why that Border Patrol Agent died in Mexico (because the gun killed him), NOT the drug cartel guy pulling the trigger. :suicide:
Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry died in Arizona after being shot by foreign invaders with guns provided by our own government.
Vaya con Dios hermano. HONOR FIRST!
Not really. While some Christians see it as a representation of the "tree of paradise", it also has pagan roots, especially Norse pagan roots.
Especially when one considers the first trees specifically associated with Christmas were lit on fire, I can't comprehend how it would be a symbol of the cross. If it were supposed to be the cross, Christians would have a large decorated cross in their home.
I believe it represents Yggdrasil, where Odin hanged for 9 days to learn the secrets of the runes.
But that was an ash tree, not an evergreen. And the earliest I can find a Christmas tree is the fifteenth century.
As far as non-Christians celebrating Christmas, to me its the same thing as non-virgins wearing white wedding dresses. People just like traditions.
However it was viewed back then, no one knows (as we weren't there). My church teaches that it represents the cross and since "Christmas" is about a celebration of CHRIST'S B-Day, it is very fitting.
C4
Sure we know, in exactly the same way your church knows things that were reliably recorded. If we use "no one knows, we weren't there" as a criteria then we need to scrap all knowledge that predates those we knew personally who provided first hand accounts.
Now if your church is teaching a "new" meaning, that is fine. Yours is hardly the first church to evolve doctrines or create new ones. But that new meaning shouldn't supplant the original one.
My practice of Christmas is very "evolved" from the original. It is mostly about Santa, Rudolf, getting toys and drinking egg nog (or at least when I was a kid that is how it was). But I was taught that the correct origin was to celebrate the birth of Jesus even if the day itself had prior pagan assocations and even if the date didn't technically coincide with an actual birth date.
On a personal level, since Christmas by it's very name recognizes the birth of Jesus, I don't think we need to associate everything with a new Christian meaning otherwise sooner or later Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid, Donder (or Donner), and Blitzen will become secret names for 8 of the disciples.
So, to recap the history of Christmas:
For thousands of years ancient pagan peoples celebrated the Winter Solstice because every day hence forth would be longer than the day before. You had survived half way thru the winter. Then, around 300CE Constantine I of Rome declared Jesus's birthday would be celebrated on 25 December - a day historically reserved in Rome as a pagan holiday. Over the course of Christian domination of Europe pagan traditions were co-oped by the early Church so the local savages would more readily accept Christianity. The Church even gave away free bread in the middle of winter no less. Around the Enlightenment the Christmas Tree as we know it today was introduced as were other tales we associate with Christmas like Santa Claus - all were adopted from paganism.
So, fast forward to today. We now celebrate Xmas or more correctly Xma$$ and it's related high holy day - Black Friday (sort of like Good Friday). At Xmas time we run around like crazy people, get really stressed out, fight with one another over parking spaces at the mall, glorify the worst elements of vapid consumerism, fight with our relatives over politics and religion, fight with other people over politics and religion, all in the the name of a poor Jewish carpenter who's central message was to be kind to one another. Good job! Enjoy the holiday.
Now I am going to play with one my Xma$$ toys (Medal of Honor) where I get to pretend to kill my fellow man over politics and religion. Maybe I will be the Taliban this time....
So, to recap the history of Christmas:
For thousands of years ancient pagan peoples celebrated the Winter Solstice because every day hence forth would be longer than the day before. You had survived half way thru the winter. Then, around 300CE Constantine I of Rome declared Jesus's birthday would be celebrated on 25 December - a day historically reserved in Rome as a pagan holiday. Over the course of Christian domination of Europe pagan traditions were co-oped by the early Church so the local savages would more readily accept Christianity. The Church even gave away free bread in the middle of winter no less. Around the Enlightenment the Christmas Tree as we know it today was introduced as were other tales we associate with Christmas like Santa Claus - all were adopted from paganism.
So, fast forward to today. We now celebrate Xmas or more correctly Xma$$ and it's related high holy day - Black Friday (sort of like Good Friday). At Xmas time we run around like crazy people, get really stressed out, fight with one another over parking spaces at the mall, glorify the worst elements of vapid consumerism, fight with our relatives over politics and religion, fight with other people over politics and religion, all in the the name of a poor Jewish carpenter who's central message was to be kind to one another. Good job! Enjoy the holiday.
Now I am going to play with one my Xma$$ toys (Medal of Honor) where I get to pretend to kill my fellow man over politics and religion. Maybe I will be the Taliban this time....
You may celebrate it that way, but I sure don't. I spend some money on gifts for my family, and make cookies for the neighbors, and this year cooked the main part of the meal for our Christmas Eve dinner at my folks' house. I don't go hog wild and indulge in "vapid consumerism" nor do I argue politics or anything. I indulge in Christmas music, cookies and candy (that is what makes my Christmas bad), and enjoy the kids. We also read the Bible and other scriptural accounts of the time as well as children's Christmas story books, mostly related to Jesus, but occasionally to Santa. We decorate a tree and hang up home decorations. All in all, a nice, relaxing, and family holiday that is my favorite time of the year.
Sure we know, in exactly the same way your church knows things that were reliably recorded. If we use "no one knows, we weren't there" as a criteria then we need to scrap all knowledge that predates those we knew personally who provided first hand accounts.
Very few documents have been validated as much as the Bible has been. Off the top of my head, there were at least two independent counsels that validated that validity of what the Bible states (facts, locations, people involved, etc).
So IMHO, no Pagan document has gone through that much scrutiny.
Now if your church is teaching a "new" meaning, that is fine. Yours is hardly the first church to evolve doctrines or create new ones. But that new meaning shouldn't supplant the original one.
No, my church isn't teaching anything "New." It is a commonly held belief of what the Christmas tree represent (that Jesus died on the cross for our sins).
http://www.onechristianministry.com/christian-articles-480.html
C4
other tales we associate with Christmas like Santa Claus - all were adopted from paganism.
Santa Claus, from Sinterklaas, from St. Nicholas, who was a very real man. The legends of St. Nicholas grew into what we know as Santa Claus.
With regards the Christmas Tree, this is interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree
Santa Claus, from Sinterklaas, from St. Nicholas, who was a very real man. The legends of St. Nicholas grew into what we know as Santa Claus.
And not a pagan. He was a Greek Bishop in the 3rd/4th century.
Doc Safari
12-28-11, 14:07
Santa Claus, from Sinterklaas, from St. Nicholas, who was a very real man. The legends of St. Nicholas grew into what we know as Santa Claus.
I think Santa Claus was created by Satan to remove people's focus from Jesus, the true reason for Christmas.
Just my HO, but I was raised in a household where Satan Claus was presented to us kids as make believe right from day one.
I think Santa Claus was created by Satan to remove people's focus from Jesus, the true reason for Christmas.
Just my HO, but I was raised in a household where Satan Claus was presented to us kids as make believe right from day one.
Sorry, man, but I would slap the tar out of whomever spouted that utter BS to any child within earshot of me. That is absolute nonsense and parental terrorism at it's worst.
The Christmas tree represents the Cross that Jesus was nailed to.
C4
It was my understanding that Martin Luther had influence for the triangular Chrstmas tree and repsresents the Trinity??
I think Santa Claus was created by Satan to remove people's focus from Jesus, the true reason for Christmas.
Just my HO, but I was raised in a household where Satan Claus was presented to us kids as make believe right from day one.
We teach our kids that there is a Saint Nicholas and tell them the history behind him, but do not lie to our children and tell that a fat man being pulled by reindeer (that can fly) is coming down our chimney to delivery presents that elves made.
I like to ask parents that do teach Santa Claus if they like their children being thankful to a mythical creature or would they like their children to thank THEM for the gifts they bought with their own (hard earned) money???
C4
It was my understanding that Martin Luther had influence for the triangular Chrstmas tree and repsresents the Trinity??
I have no idea about that.
C4
RogerinTPA
12-28-11, 16:04
It is amazing to see yet again, another thread derailed in this direction.
Maybe a new thread on the meaning of Christmas, and all it entails, is in order.
Or maybe a 'All things Religion and how it applies to You and how ever you interpret it, you're wrong' kinda thread.:suicide2:
Hey, at least they'd know that the etymological development of the word "holiday" stems from "holy day," unlike some...
Really?
"A Holiday is a day designated as having special significance for which individuals, a government, or a religious group have deemed that observance is warranted. It is generally an official (more common) or unofficial observance of religious, national, or cultural significance, often accompanied by celebrations or festivities."
Don't see anything about it being reserved for only religious holidays. Etymology be damned.
http://www.skepticmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/water.jpg
Doc Safari
12-28-11, 16:08
We ...do not lie to our children and tell that a fat man being pulled by reindeer (that can fly) is coming down our chimney to delivery presents that elves made.
C4
Good policy.
I have a very good reason for having a hard-on against Satan Claus.
One of my relatives told their kids the whole story of Mr. Claus and played along with it like it was real. I understand they played up the myth to be real a little excessively, but anyway. As the kids grew older, they finally told each one in turn that it had all been make believe and Santa wasn't real.
It's my understanding that one of the kids immediately said, "Well, then I guess Jesus isn't real either."
When I imagine the damage done to that child's faith over a stupid imaginary character in a red suit it just saddens and angers me.
Good policy.
I have a very good reason for having a hard-on against Satan Claus.
One of my relatives told their kids the whole story of Mr. Claus and played along with it like it was real. I understand they played up the myth to be real a little excessively, but anyway. As the kids grew older, they finally told each one in turn that it had all been make believe and Santa wasn't real.
It's my understanding that one of the kids immediately said, "Well, then I guess Jesus isn't real either."
When I imagine the damage done to that child's faith over a stupid imaginary character in a red suit it just saddens and angers me.
I have known several adults that are still PISSED till this day that they parents lied to them. They eventually found out from friends (which of course made fun of them) that there was no such thing.
My parents taught me Santa Claus and I remember that when I found out, I was let down by it.
The big issue for the wife and I is that Christmas is about the Celebration of Jesus being born. Santa and giving each child hundreds presents really detracts for "The Reason for the Season!"
C4
Doc Safari
12-28-11, 16:25
The big issue for the wife and I is that Christmas is about the Celebration of Jesus being born. Santa and giving each child hundreds presents really detracts for "The Reason for the Season!"
C4
Amen, Brother. Believe or disbelieve, that is what the holiday is all about.
If people would just tell their kids Santa is all make believe, then no problem, but too many lie to their kids and that's where I say there's ultimately evil in it.
How the heck did this thread get so derailed.
Atheist, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, whatever. Enjoy the time with family and friends. I am an Atheist, I don't put up a tree or decorations but that is mainly because I just don't feel like screwing with it. But I have dinner with my family, spend the day with my GF and her family. I wish my friends happy holidays or Merry Christmas or whatever.
Come on guys, just enjoy the holidays.
And of course make fun of the libtards :D
http://www.skepticmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/water.jpg
I am so stealing that. Almost as good as banana man
How the heck did this thread get so derailed.
Atheist, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, whatever. Enjoy the time with family and friends. I am an Atheist, I don't put up a tree or decorations but that is mainly because I just don't feel like screwing with it. But I have dinner with my family, spend the day with my GF and her family. I wish my friends happy holidays or Merry Christmas or whatever.
Come on guys, just enjoy the holidays.
And of course make fun of the libtards :D
I am so stealing that. Almost as good as banana man
I couldn't stop laughing at it. Not meant to incite anyone, it just seemed to fit.
I have no idea about that.
C4
Pastor mentioned it a couple of weeks ago...hearsay only.
Robb Jensen
12-28-11, 17:03
Come on guys, just enjoy the holidays.
And of course make fun of the libtards :D
I always do that! ;)
Very few documents have been validated as much as the Bible has been. Off the top of my head, there were at least two independent counsels that validated that validity of what the Bible states (facts, locations, people involved, etc).
So IMHO, no Pagan document has gone through that much scrutiny.
C4
What makes "validity" from a body such as the Council of Nicea more "valid" than the validity of any other body?
Keep in mind Christian scholars are the ones that reset the calendar to start with the birth of Jesus and missed by several years, and that was a matter of simple arithmetic.
I don't think Christian record keepers are any more accurate than most other record keepers of the time.
I think validity comes more from multiple source accounts and things like that.
http://www.skepticmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/water.jpg
Holy Cow. I didn't know anyone was that uneducated.
:eek:
Heavy Metal
12-28-11, 17:37
Violence is never the answer.
;)
Those who say violence is never the answer must think every question is "Whats for dinner?"
Heavy Metal
12-28-11, 17:38
http://www.skepticmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/water.jpg
Holy Cow. I didn't know anyone was that uneducated.
:eek:
That has to be a joke.
That has to be a joke.
The Bible does not say the earth is 6k yrs old...some Christians interpret that, but the translation also mean a 'period of time' and is really undetermined. Many words have dual meaning in the Bible & just adds more fuel to the confusion, thus giving more people reason to lean on proof instead of faith.
nobody really knows how old the earth is and really doesn't matter to me if it's 6k or 6 trillion years. It simply boils down to faith & I'll never be able to prove to anyone the existance of God. It's something you have to open yourself up to and experience the 'proof' in your own life.
Frustrating for those of us who want to see the doubters saved, but just the way it is.
This has to be one of the better thread derailments on the net.
Now trying to get the train back on the tracks....
Yeah I have a few liberal relatives and I hate dealing with them. I used to try to use logic and reason in my conversations with them. I got tired of it. So I decided to become an obnoxious ass instead. I figured that if they could get away with being ignorant and ignoring facts and science then I could too. They either chose to walk away or were too stupid to do so. For the latter ones it was like clubbing a baby seal...and I love clubbing baby seals. So cathartic.
Now in all fairness this also applies to the obnoxious ultra right relatives that I have to deal with.
What I think it boils down too is that both sides love to practice "freedom for me, but not for thee". I can't stand it.
polymorpheous
12-28-11, 20:29
but when you cherry-pick information, without analysis, or simply gobble up what some petty demagogue feeds you for no better reason than sounds pretty good, somebody with more mental agility and grasp of cause/effect (add a dash of sarcasm for flavor!) is gonna bake your noodle.
I think this is why my ex hates me!
:p
Heavy Metal
12-28-11, 20:38
The Bible does not say the earth is 6k yrs old...some Christians interpret that, but the translation also mean a 'period of time' and is really undetermined. Many words have dual meaning in the Bible & just adds more fuel to the confusion, thus giving more people reason to lean on proof instead of faith.
nobody really knows how old the earth is and really doesn't matter to me if it's 6k or 6 trillion years. It simply boils down to faith & I'll never be able to prove to anyone the existance of God. It's something you have to open yourself up to and experience the 'proof' in your own life.
Frustrating for those of us who want to see the doubters saved, but just the way it is.
Thats not what I mean. Even Christians know they pee. Everything excreets waste water by sweating, pissing, craping or breathing where it becomes part of the water cycle. This Christian understands the water cycle. Hell, I understand the carbon cycle and nitrogen cycle too!
I think that chart is a false flag and an obvious one.
Even more obvious when I traced it back to its hosting domain, a website that is a bunch of Dawkins-fellators.
The Bible does not say the earth is 6k yrs old...some Christians interpret that, but the translation also mean a 'period of time' and is really undetermined.
Do you mean to tell me that people interpret The Holy Bible!? No, it is THE WORD OF GOD and means EXACTLY what it says. AND, every translation from Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English was PERFECTLY and EXPERTLY translated as to leave NO room for error under ANY circumstances.
In other news, yep, good ol' St. Nick:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas
Can somebody explain to me why his little elf Zwarte Piet never caught on in this country?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet
http://www.google.com/search?q=zwarte+piet&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=vtz7TojJMuHc0QHkuemVAg&sqi=2&ved=0CEMQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=677
Just awesome....
Christmas was a brilliant move by the early Catholic church to co-opt pre-existing winter festivals in order to spread further into the wilds of pagan Europe. You really have to give credit to the Catholic church, they were very astute at being flexible enough to insinuate themselves wherever they landed. They did it with Easter as well, co-opting a pagan fertility/spring celebration by associating it with the resurrection (rebirth) of Christ. There's a reason the Catholic church ruled so much of the world in days gone by. They were good at adapting and overcoming. In many ways, this is what some branches of Islam are trying to do now. We should learn from this and adapt accordingly.
So, you can look at this two ways: First, the older meaning of a wintertime celebration predates Christianity, so in that sense, Jesus is not 'the reason for the season'. However, with Christianity the dominant religious tradition in Western civilization, most people see it as the origin of the holiday and celebrate accordingly, whether or not they are devout. As was said earlier, it's a cultural glue that binds us into a common tradition with many variations.
Far be it from me to say that someone can't celebrate it as a religious holiday. This is America, and it's your right to do so. But just as religious folks get annoyed at the rampant commercialism they see diluting or corrupting their holiday, those of us who aren't so religious get annoyed at the continual harping about neglecting a religion in which we just don't believe. I'd rather we all just do our own thing and be happy about the shared portions of the tradition that bind us together as Americans, and concentrate our ire on the people who really are out to wreck both our secular and religious traditions.
Don't see anything about it being reserved for only religious holidays.
Duh, one generally doesn't see things that aren't there, Gertrude.
You can't point to anywhere that I asserted, suggested, or even hinted that that word was reserved strictly to religous holidays. Somebody ELSE did that by slapping the word together, way back whenever. ALL I did was point out the facts surrounding the aforementioned slapping-together aspect...
If there was a conclusion to be drawn, it was that somebody unaware of what the word "holiday" means should be justifiably embarrassed....when caught out trying to erronously tell folks what it means. :rolleyes:
What IS it with sisters, anyway? They somehow account for the sibling problems of any 2 brothers (based upon my tireless research as being the eldest of 4...do the math).
Mine somehow landed in the "guns = bad" camp. Part of her rude awakening came about when I went down a laundry list of seemingly-benign household items laying within arm's reach of me in the living room that I could use to demolish her (presuming that my hands weren't enough). She's like 70% nitwit otherwise, so I was less interested in changing her mind than I was in waking her to the idea of no dangerous weapons, only dangerous minds.
I was frustrated enough that showing her what a rolled-up Cosmo magazine could do to a watermelon turned out to be therapeutic, in addition to a teachable moment. I WANTED to hit HER, the stupid bint....
Does an "in the closet in the most awful way" younger brother count as a sister?
My actual sister (older) tolerates guns as we all grew up with them, but my sissy pants little brother is so Obama that it makes me ill. We were sitting at the dinner table on Christmas and politics slowly crept into the conversation. Everyone at the table is about as sick of Obama(and liberals in general) that the conversation turned to the elections coming up. My little sissy brother said something to the effect of "Well, if they'd just fix congress then Obama could get some of his policies thru". My dead pan reaction was "God, I hope not". The table erupted with laughter. His response... "let's not talk politics at the dinner table".
Best part of the night, my dad says to him... "last I checked, this is my table and you're sitting at it, we'll talk about whatever we damn well please. If you don't like it, the kids table is over there." (backstory: little sissy-bro is 32 and living at home with mom and dad... again after a stint in Portland, OR because he couldn't hack real life)
QuickStrike
12-29-11, 15:47
Actually, it existed before Christ. It was called the Winter Solstice and was celebrated by pagan society thousands of years before Christ. The Roman Church co-oped it from the pagan Roman holiday celebration Brumalia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brumalia
Most popular Christian holidays conveniently coincide with some other vastly more ancient pagan celebration of solar and lunar cycles.
True, I wonder if he was even born on the 25th of December!
It's more pervasive than political lines. There's no true depth to ANY thought processes of the rank-and-file citizen.
Example: I'm 11 years older than my youngest brother, so I'm more like an itinerant uncle to him. During one of my rare visits home, he was still in middle school or was a HS freshman, and some class of his was making a study of philosophy.
Anyhow, I diddybopped in from whatever random lunacy I was engaged in at the time, to be met with the demand of "Can you tell me what you think of this glass of juice!?"
....and resting in the middle of the table was a half-glass of some reddish fluid. On the counter nearby was a pitcher of the same stuff, as well as the lidless jar in which Mom kept the sugar, a wooden spoon, and a torn packet of Fruit Punch Kool-Aid. Oh yeah!
In my head...SNAP! Ohhhhthisistheglass-half-full/glass-half-emptyquestionIsimplyMUSTscrewwithhim!
"Okay, I'll play your little freakin' game..." I picked up the glass, drank the contents, stated "Too much sugar!" and majestically sailed out of the kitchen.
An outraged cry of "YOU DID IT WRONG!!!" followed in my wake.
"I cannot be held responsible for your teacher's inability to accurately define the realm of subjectively correct answers to the assignment! It's philosphy; THINK about it."
I can't conclusively say whether or not I planted the suggestion that there were more answers to the question, as posed, than "half-full/half-empty," or that nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool ( :D ).... but when you cherry-pick information, without analysis, or simply gobble up what some petty demagogue feeds you for no better reason than sounds pretty good, somebody with more mental agility and grasp of cause/effect (add a dash of sarcasm for flavor!) is gonna bake your noodle.
And that is how you take a "Survey" and make it say whatever you want. I don't believe in "Surveys" because you can make one say whatever you want, and then call it, "Gospel Liberalism Truth"
True, I wonder if he was even born on the 25th of December!
If he was born at all, then probably not. The stories in the bible are pretty inconsistent but from what historians can gather none of the details presented line up with that time of year. Chances are it was more around May/April by our calender.
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