View Full Version : Palmetto State Armory Lower Receiver as a SBR host
Just wondering if people here would consider Palmetto State Armory's lower receiver as a good SBR host? I wanted to take advantage of the sale they currently have going on. Thanks
I would use one, but only after building it complete and running several hundred if not 1k rounds through it.
ETA: I don't mean to say that the PSA lowers are questionable, I would test any lower before SBR'ing it.
I would use one, but only after building it complete and running several hundred if not 1k rounds through it.
Considering I'm planning a piecemeal build (due soon to the arrival of my first child) that's fine for me since it would work well with a plan to do the build over a couple of months.
ETA: I don't mean to say that the PSA lowers are questionable, I would test any lower before SBR'ing it.
No, that's fine. I only ask because of one of the steps in the how to do an SBR sticky. Honestly I'm going to most likely have a ton of questions. As I've never done an AR build. but I'm first going over the basic info threads so I don't do the dreaded ask a question answered 500 times before and that there was a thread about a week ago. lol
Eurodriver
12-27-11, 18:05
I'm with Eric D regarding testing of any lower.
But...with BCM Lowers for sale from G&R Tactical at ~300$ delivered, I see no reason to build rifles from stripped lowers anymore.
I mean, sure you can spread the costs out. But its such a low price and such high quality (especially for something you'll be mated to forever) it'd be hard to pass up for an SBR build. You do not want to skimp on anything on something you'll be married to forever.
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I have seen this question come up several times and I relate it to someone building a house asking if they could get away with a 2-1/2" slab under their house versus spending more money for a standard 4" slab.
I have read several times about guys buying "inexpensive" (cheap) lowers only to find out after the gone through the paper work... it is out of spec or loose or the finish is coming off or blah...blah...
Personally to save money, I would put a Hasbro LPK in a LMT, BCM, Noveske, DD, etc. lower before I tried to save a nickel on an irreplaceable part.
But maybe it's just me...
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The PSA lowers are made by Aero Precision(if I remember correctly) which have been recommended by several people on here as GTG including Grant. I am planning to SBR an Aero Precision lower so I see no issues with SBR'ing a PSA lower. I also used a PSA LPK. Built two lowers with them, ive put just about 1000 rounds through each and they have been GTG.
You know I've been giving it thought. I think I might just bypass a build and save up for a Colt 6920. I mean it's essentially what I would be trying to build anyway, and I would think it's right up there for a great potential SBR host.
You wouldnt be asking if you knew it was okay.
Building an SBR is not cheap.
Save an extra 100 bucks and get a decent lower.
Youre gonna be married to this thing for a long time.
As stated before, you're wedding yourself to it via the $200 tax stamp. Do you wanna marry the cheap floozie from the bar, or the nice girl your mother introduced you to at church? :D
22_Shooter
12-28-11, 01:11
No problem in going with the PSA lower.
There's nothing this $50 forged lower won't do, that a more expensive forged lower with a different roll-mark will do. As has already been said, top it off and put some rounds through it before SBR'ing it, but that goes for any lower, regardless of brand.
Curious of the reasoning behind the "get a better lower" suggestions. We're talking about forged lowers here. If they're in spec and run, there's no difference.
Eurodriver
12-28-11, 06:22
No problem in going with the PSA lower.
There's nothing this $50 forged lower won't do, that a more expensive forged lower with a different roll-mark will do. As has already been said, top it off and put some rounds through it before SBR'ing it, but that goes for any lower, regardless of brand.
Curious of the reasoning behind the "get a better lower" suggestions. We're talking about forged lowers here. If they're in spec and run, there's no difference.
My reasoning is simple:
I know I can assemble a lower and that I can assemble it properly. This means buying quality parts, staking the end plate, etc. However, I know that BCM does it just as good as I do, probably better.
I used to assemble my own lowers. I have a Spikes stripped receiver and with a G&R LPK, Buffer tube, H Buffer, spring, etc it cost me around $275
After seeing G&R sold BCM Lowers, I bought one off him. It cost me ~$325 including FFL fees.
I SBR'd my Spikes lower and while its entirely functional and a quality piece (A lower is a lower is a lower) I would much rather have an SBR'd BCM lower. Putting aside that the castle nut staking BCM does is leaps and bounds better than mine, I would like a BCM SBR just for the rollmark and peace of mind knowing it was done professionally. If I'm going to have this thing forever, I would like it to be flawless in every way. Even if that means being picky about something trivial. $50 over the course of fifty years is nothing.
In a perfect world, I would like nothing but Colt 6920 SBR'd lowers, but thats a bit too rich for me.
I SBR's an fly by night lower, and lucked out. I later noticed that the milling for the FCG was off center. It' hasn't impacted function fortunately... but I was kicking myself for not vetting the lower before I married it.
Mine's seen just over 1,000...no problems at all. If the holes are in the right spots, what else matters? That extra $100 I saved is going towards a suppressor :)
I wouldn't consider a Palmetto bad just based on price.
I would use one, but only after building it complete and running several hundred if not 1k rounds through it.
ETA: I don't mean to say that the PSA lowers are questionable, I would test any lower before SBR'ing it.
I'm asking this because I really want to know...why does it take that many rounds before you'd SBR the lower? If the magwell is good, all the parts fit properly, and the lower functions properly after one or two hundred rounds, what would change with further testing?
FWIW, I just sent in the form 1 on an Aero Precision lower that I haven't even tested yet. Prior to sending the paperwork I assembled it with a DD lpk and A5 buffer system, and there were no fitment issues with any of those parts or with various uppers. All mags drop free. Dry function tests are good. I will be test firing this lower for at least three or four mags, and if there's a problem I'll cancel the registration and get another lower to SBR.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making a SBR with a PSA lower as it will function and fit just as we'll as any other more expensive one. Only difference will be the roll mark. This really holds true right now when you can build one complete with MOE furniture for $175!
As for building something that you are "married" to, its that exact reason that the roll mark doesn't matter. If you planned to re sell it you would be better off with a bigger name...though it wouldn't function any better.
I would use one, but only after building it complete and running several hundred if not 1k rounds through it.
ETA: I don't mean to say that the PSA lowers are questionable, I would test any lower before SBR'ing it.
Wise man.
For me, I do not want to engrave the lower with any personal info. So I would buy a factory registered SBR.
To me, if I am going through all the hassle and pain of doing a form 1, why not pick a well known name??? Colt? BCM? DD? Noveske? KAC? I personally would not want to be married to a PSA lower. YMMV.
C4
I'm asking this because I really want to know...why does it take that many rounds before you'd SBR the lower? If the magwell is good, all the parts fit properly, and the lower functions properly after one or two hundred rounds, what would change with further testing?
Using it for a while with another upper (what I did) might bring issues to light if they do not present themselves after you assemble, function check, etc.
I'm not married to/a fanboy of any specific brand so could someone fill me in on why the brand names are worth the extra $? I was under the impression that these came in house to the big companies, and all they did was stamp their name on it. So if all I'm paying for is the rollmark....then I'll pass. But if a lower stamped with DD, Noveske, etc. is actually made/QCd by them, well then that's a different deal altogether. At least in my mind.
I'll probably continue with BCM blems and PSA, unless someone can clue me in on something I may be missing in regards to the ROI of a pricier stripped lower.
Using it for a while with another upper (what I did) might bring issues to light if they do not present themselves after you assemble, function check, etc.
I understand that. My question is what would someone possibly find after 1000 rounds versus 100 or 200 rounds, regarding a failure related to the lower receiver itself. I don't think a forged 7075 T6 aluminum, hard anodized receiver is going to break or wear out in 1000 rounds. I'm just trying to understand what might happen after 100 or 200 rounds with no issues that would be caused by the receiver being faulty in some way.
ETA: I guess the logic is just that more rounds fired equals more chances for an operational problem to show up?
I understand that. My question is what would someone possibly find after 1000 rounds versus 100 or 200 rounds, regarding a failure related to the lower receiver itself. I don't think a forged 7075 T6 aluminum, hard anodized receiver is going to break or wear out in 1000 rounds. I'm just trying to understand what might happen after 100 or 200 rounds with no issues that would be caused by the receiver being faulty in some way.
ETA: I guess the logic is just that more rounds fired equals more chances for an operational problem to show up?
Yeah that's what I was getting at...non apparent issues will definitely be exacerbated by a higher round count. 1,000 is where I've felt comfortable on the few assemblies I've done so far. Pick a number really...but IMO said number needs to be above 1-200
22_Shooter
12-28-11, 11:43
I'm not married to/a fanboy of any specific brand so could someone fill me in on why the brand names are worth the extra $?
Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them.
Functionally, there's literally no difference between a PSA lower (which are made by Aero Precision) and a lower from a more commonly known company. Basically, forged lowers are forged lowers. Like I said, if it's in spec and runs, you're golden.
Some people will pay extra for a roll-mark. That's fine. To each his own. I have lowers of numerous brands. I like Mega's rollmark the best out of mine, but I realize it's functionally no different than a PSA lower. In the event that something is wrong with your PSA lower, PSA has great customer service and will take care of you, no doubt.
The only real advantage I see with a "name brand" lower is re-sale value. But since we're talking specifically about SBR'ed lowers, this is really a non-issue for the most part.
I paid over $100 for a DD lower, even in these times of sub-$100 lowers. Why? Just because those are my initials and I'd never had a DD lower before. In that case, the extra $$ was worth it to me.
Go with whatever brand you feel like, for whatever reasons. But don't kid yourself into thinking you're getting something functionally extra by going with more expensive lower.....because you're not.
However, I know that BCM does it just as good as I do, probably better.
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Thanks buddy!
I think I can build a better lower than you as well :lol:
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I believe there is a difference in Lowers.
For a company like BCM and Noveske to have cosmetic seconds is the result of the fact that they are actually inspecting their lowers and rejecting them. A Noveske rep told me they inspect with magnification and generally reject 25%+ of new Lowers.
Reports from people that have bought these "seconds", most have said they could not see a blemish of any kind. So, if a company is going to that extreme for just the finish and machine marks...what are their tolerances for pin-hole placement accuracy, hole diameters, etc.
A "lower is a lower" is jaga ignorant assumption, escpecially if you have no clue to the QC a maker puts his lowers through. If a company rejects 25% of their lowers, that is a significant revenue loss, which will make the "passed inspection" lowers cost more. If Noveske and BCM did not cull out "seconds" they could sell their "firsts" for less money.
If a company is blatantly calling a seemingly fine lower a "second" because of the finish, don't you think they would have pretty high standards on pin-hole placement?
MarkM posted that he has a Lower that works but the FCG pin-holes are not correct. If a company has a high criteria on the finish quality, what do you think their criteria will be for tolerances on pin-hole placement?
I guess it just boils down to how much "not perfect" are you willing to accept in your Lower.
With the thinking that all lowers do the same job, then, just go get a Carbon lower and be done with it. Hmmm...so there is a limit to how low you will stoop? ;)
It is more than just a rollmark...
All I'm saying is I am sure PSA, Mega, etc. lowers will work and might be just fine but forever is a long time.
But maybe it's just me...
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I believe their is a difference in Lowers.
For a company like BCM and Noveske to have cosmetic seconds is the result of the fact that they are actually inspecting their lowers and rejecting them. A Noveske rep told me they inspect with magnification and generally reject 25%+ of new Lowers.
Reports from people that have bought these "seconds", most have said they could not see a blemish of any kind. So, if a company is going to that extreme for just the finish and machine marks...what are their specs inspecting for pin-hole placement accuracy, hole diameter tolerances, etc.
A "lower is a lower" is jaga ignorant assumption, escpecially if you have no clue to the QC a maker puts his lowers through. If a company rejects 25% of their lowers, that is a significant revenue loss, which will make the "passed inspection" lowers cost more. If Noveske and BCM did not cull out "seconds" they could sell their "firsts" for less money.
If a company is blatantly calling a seemingly fine lower a "second" because of the finish, don't you think they would have pretty high standards on pin-hole placement?
MarkM posted that he has a Lower that works but the FCG pin-holes are not correct. If a company has a high criteria on the finish quality, what do you think their criteria will be for tolerances on pin-hole placement?
I guess it just boils down to how much "not perfect" are you willing to accept in your Lower.
With the thinking that all lowers do the same job, then, just go get a Carbon lower and be done with it. Hmmm...so there is a limit to how low you will stoop? ;)
It is more than just a rollmark...
All I'm saying is PSA, Mega, etc. lowers may work and might be just fine but forever is a long time.
But maybe it's just me...
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Don't confuse fit and finish with overall quality. The vast majority of Blems are culled out for cosmetic reasons not because they are out of spec.
22_Shooter
12-28-11, 13:41
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I believe there is a difference in Lowers.
For a company like BCM and Noveske to have cosmetic seconds is the result of the fact that they are actually inspecting their lowers and rejecting them. A Noveske rep told me they inspect with magnification and generally reject 25%+ of new Lowers.
Yeah, due to cosmetic blemishes, like you go on to say below. Notice, I made it very clear in my posts that functionally, there is no difference between an in-spec running forged lower from X brand or Y brand. If cosmetics are such a concern for some, then that is something they need to figure out if $$ plays a role on which they choose.
Reports from people that have bought these "seconds", most have said they could not see a blemish of any kind. So, if a company is going to that extreme for just the finish and machine marks...what are their tolerances for pin-hole placement accuracy, hole diameters, etc.
Pin-hole tolerance issues, etc, is something that would be discovered when throwing an LPK into the lower. Like I said, PSA has great CS. As long as you're smart enough to actually run some rounds with the lower before you "marry" it, then you're fine. If something's out of spec, PSA will replace it.
A "lower is a lower" is jaga ignorant assumption, escpecially if you have no clue to the QC a maker puts his lowers through. If a company rejects 25% of their lowers, that is a significant revenue loss, which will make the "passed inspection" lowers cost more. If Noveske and BCM did not cull out "seconds" they could sell their "firsts" for less money.
If a company is blatantly calling a seemingly fine lower a "second" because of the finish, don't you think they would have pretty high standards on pin-hole placement?
MarkM posted that he has a Lower that works but the FCG pin-holes are not correct. If a company has a high criteria on the finish quality, what do you think their criteria will be for tolerances on pin-hole placement?
MarkM would most likely receive a new lower if he was bothered enough, or if it was so far out of spec that it didn't run. He himself admits he should have tested it more before getting the stamp. Again, this could have been avoided by testing before "marrying". You're not guaranteed perfection by going with any brand.
I guess it just boils down to how much "not perfect" are you willing to accept in your Lower.
Nothing's perfect. Not even a Colt or BCM lower. There's always the possibility of a problem.
With the thinking that all lowers do the same job, then, just go get a Carbon lower and be done with it. Hmmm...so there is a limit to how low you will stoop? ;)
You're comparing a carbon lower to a standard forged lower? Apples to oranges, my friend.
It is more than just a rollmark...
Functionally, no.
All I'm saying is I am sure PSA, Mega, etc. lowers will work and might be just fine but forever is a long time.
.....and a PSA or Mega lower will make it just as far into forever as a Colt or BCM. As long as you run your lower through it's paces before marrying into that forever, there's no worries.:)
But maybe it's just me...
Everyone's got their opinions and preferences. Nothing wrong with that.
For some reason, the forum's software is not reading anything I added to the above quote as my actual text, so it's making me enter text down here outside of the quote in order to be able to post it. That's what this small paragraph is for.:D
EDIT: Changed the text to white. The red was hard to read.
Not totally moot since the fact that once you remove and sell or otherwise take the upper out of the equation, it becomes a standard lower.
Some lowers are in fact better than others in that they are "in spec" from the beginning.
I would be concerened about the parts used to complete the lower.
Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them.
Functionally, there's literally no difference between a PSA lower (which are made by Aero Precision) and a lower from a more commonly known company. Basically, forged lowers are forged lowers. Like I said, if it's in spec and runs, you're golden.
Some people will pay extra for a roll-mark. That's fine. To each his own. I have lowers of numerous brands. I like Mega's rollmark the best out of mine, but I realize it's functionally no different than a PSA lower. In the event that something is wrong with your PSA lower, PSA has great customer service and will take care of you, no doubt.
The only real advantage I see with a "name brand" lower is re-sale value. But since we're talking specifically about SBR'ed lowers, this is really a non-issue for the most part.
I paid over $100 for a DD lower, even in these times of sub-$100 lowers. Why? Just because those are my initials and I'd never had a DD lower before. In that case, the extra $$ was worth it to me.
Go with whatever brand you feel like, for whatever reasons. But don't kid yourself into thinking you're getting something functionally extra by going with more expensive lower.....because you're not.
Good point IG about internal parts. That's why I get my parts kits from Grant :D
I haven't cared enough to look for finish issues on my PSA lower. I'll find the wife's superduper camera and get some pics in a sec. Maybe someone can point out something I'm missing as far as finish goes
22_Shooter
12-28-11, 17:16
Not totally moot since the fact that once you remove and sell or otherwise take the upper out of the equation, it becomes a standard lower.
Some lowers are in fact better than others in that they are "in spec" from the beginning.
I would be concerened about the parts used to complete the lower.
You're right, re-sale value is not completely a non-issue. But talking specifically about SBR lowers, I think it's less of an issue since people wouldn't be as quick to sell an SBR lower, as they would a standard lower.
I was under the impression that once you SBR a lower, it's an NFA item forever and needs to be sold as such. Your first sentence implies otherwise? I don't have any NFA lowers, so I'm not up on that issue.
PSA lowers are as in-spec from the beginning as any other lower.
I agree, I'd be pickier about what LPK I threw into my lower, than the rollmark on the lower itself.
Incorrect and has been discussed and referenced numerous times here.
You're right, re-sale value is not completely a non-issue. But talking specifically about SBR lowers, I think it's less of an issue since people wouldn't be as quick to sell an SBR lower, as they would a standard lower.
I was under the impression that once you SBR a lower, it's an NFA item forever and needs to be sold as such. Your first sentence implies otherwise? I don't have any NFA lowers, so I'm not up on that issue.
PSA lowers are as in-spec from the beginning as any other lower.
I agree, I'd be pickier about what LPK I threw into my lower, than the rollmark on the lower itself.
I see no reason not to use the PSA Lowers for a build, SBR or Title I. So far they seem to be in-spec, priced right and seem to be of good quality. As for resale, generally when I do a F1 I dont plan to sell the lower, many people dont want a lower that has someone elses name on it.
Today most lowers are cheap enough that is for alittle more coin one can own a new lower and add your own name to it. As for value when you choose to sell the gun off much of the time it is the other parts and condition that determine what the gun will bring when sold more often then not.
I am not a "fanboy" of any company but I see no reason to pay more for a lower based on whos name is on it. Show me the specs or a clear example of better quality that makes one lower better then next and I can see spend more for that lower. Right now PSA seems to have the right price for a good product that is up to par with most Manufactures making off the shelf guns today.
YMMV
22_Shooter
12-29-11, 01:39
Incorrect and has been discussed and referenced numerous times here.
Ya learn something new everyday!
My assumption was off. Thanks for the clarification.
PalmettoStateArmory
12-29-11, 12:22
We visually inspect each lower before shipment, and do our best to locate possible defects, scratches, etc. Our blemished lowers are sent back to the manufacturer for replacement.
Tried to get some pics of the markings, magwell flaring, retaining pin, etc.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/PSA/IMG_0852.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/PSA/IMG_0840.jpg
For comparison, loved my DD but the rollmark was a little uneven (depth)
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/Daniel%20Defense/12e7bba4.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/PSA/IMG_0828.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/PSA/IMG_0856.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/PSA/IMG_0848.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/PSA/IMG_0845.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/PSA/IMG_0832.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/PSA/IMG_0860.jpg
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t294/myersma2/PSA/IMG_0830.jpg
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