nfa question while on active duty

[40calfragout]

so there i was no shit........ anyways, myself and a few of my peers were talking guns tonight just like we always do. the subject of nfa items came up and various ways to fill out paperwork and apply for a tax stamp while overseas so the item is waiting when we get back. now while im pretty sure that i already know the answer to this question it is just believable enough that it might in fact be true or at least i think so.

he stated that he thinks he read somewhere (ya i know probably pulling it out of his ass) that our commander can sign off in place of a CLEO on the forms. is this true and if so is there a minimum pay grade?

thanks in advance (yes i searched)

and a real question while im at it. who is a good guy to go to for a trust for an ohio resident. thanks again guys

[Iraqgunz]

Officers can notarize the forms, but they cannot sign them off. You also cannot purchase the items while you are overseas.

This is quite simple. In order to do the Form 4 you need to pay for the item, present the paperwork, get the fingerprints, photos, etc... or the Trust.

I don't realistically see this happening while deployed.


so there i was no shit........ anyways, myself and a few of my peers were talking guns tonight just like we always do. the subject of nfa items came up and various ways to fill out paperwork and apply for a tax stamp while overseas so the item is waiting when we get back. now while im pretty sure that i already know the answer to this question it is just believable enough that it might in fact be true or at least i think so.

he stated that he thinks he read somewhere (ya i know probably pulling it out of his ass) that our commander can sign off in place of a CLEO on the forms. is this true and if so is there a minimum pay grade?

thanks in advance (yes i searched)

and a real question while im at it. who is a good guy to go to for a trust for an ohio resident. thanks again guys

[TehLlama]

I tried the trust route while in Helmand, with huge advantages (having a wife, having a home of record I could use, and a Class III dealer who understands the process), and it's still such a tremendous pain I wouldn't recommend it.

Light 16" OABL carbines are plenty good, and much, much simpler.

[40calfragout]

Iraqgunz, i concur with your assessment but i had to ask cause it sounded just believable enough thanks for clearing it up for me.

TehLlama, if i may ask what kind of trouble did you run into? cause i am planing on buying some NFA items while home on leave and filling out the paperwork at home before i come back. but i have a family friend who is a NFA dealer and dosent mind holding onto my items till i get back.

again gentlemen thanks for your time

[glocktogo]

Officers can notarize the forms, but they cannot sign them off. You also cannot purchase the items while you are overseas.

This is quite simple. In order to do the Form 4 you need to pay for the item, present the paperwork, get the fingerprints, photos, etc... or the Trust.

I don't realistically see this happening while deployed.

I'm selling a SBS to a currently deployed troop. He and his father are both officers on their Trust. His dad is handling all the paperwork and details until he returns home.

[viperashes]

so there i was no shit........ anyways, myself and a few of my peers were talking guns tonight just like we always do. the subject of nfa items came up and various ways to fill out paperwork and apply for a tax stamp while overseas so the item is waiting when we get back. now while im pretty sure that i already know the answer to this question it is just believable enough that it might in fact be true or at least i think so.

he stated that he thinks he read somewhere (ya i know probably pulling it out of his ass) that our commander can sign off in place of a CLEO on the forms. is this true and if so is there a minimum pay grade?

thanks in advance (yes i searched)

and a real question while im at it. who is a good guy to go to for a trust for an ohio resident. thanks again guys
Commanders can sign off on a number of things, but they can not sign off on Form 4's. They are not sworn CLEOs.

Part of the provision of USC 18 authorizes Commissioned Officers to do a number of things, this is also outlined in the UCMJ, unfortunately, this is not one of them. If you do go with a trust however, you can have your CO sign off on the trust, I would have a JAG officer do it though, your CO isn't going to have the embossing seal. It's not necessary, and is perfectly legal, but those outside of the military may not know this and it may be extra hassle that you don't need.

If you're on LNK by chance, shoot me a PM and we can link up. I may have some good info for you to help you out quite a bit to get your process a little bit of a kick start. When I did my trust, after verifying with a few different sources on how well the verbiage in it was written, and knowing it was well put together, I gave a copy to the Legal Officer that signed mine, to use as a template for future troops who were looking for trust paperwork. Being that we get free legal council, including legal documents, but the NFA process being fairly foreign to most Legal Officers (I did meet one, a long time ago) most don't understand how to do trusts, specifically, trusts with NFA specific wording.

Officers can notarize the forms, but they cannot sign them off. You also cannot purchase the items while you are overseas.

This is quite simple. In order to do the Form 4 you need to pay for the item, present the paperwork, get the fingerprints, photos, etc... or the Trust.

I don't realistically see this happening while deployed.
I started the process for an SBR and suppressor while on this deployment. I contacted a dealer and sent payment about a month before I went home on R&R. While I was home, we did my F4s and sent them off. This is pretty much the only way to get this done while deployed. I explored a LOT of options. This was the only viable, realistic one.

As glocktogo stated, having a family member that is semi-knowledgable about the process and willing to do so, that is a trustee can start the process for you, but that means that THEY will need to go pick the weapon up when the forms return.

Iraqgunz, i concur with your assessment but i had to ask cause it sounded just believable enough thanks for clearing it up for me.

TehLlama, if i may ask what kind of trouble did you run into? cause i am planing on buying some NFA items while home on leave and filling out the paperwork at home before i come back. but i have a family friend who is a NFA dealer and dosent mind holding onto my items till i get back.

again gentlemen thanks for your time
The NFA items that you purchase will have to be held onto by the SOT dealer you do your transfer through until your forms get approved and returned anyway, they can't just go to "any" dealer, they must stay with the SOT dealer that initially starts your paperwork, as those items are "registered" to them until your Form 4's are approved. They aren't like regular firearms where you can just leave the store with them after filling out the 4473 and completing the transaction.

[Turnkey11]

Provost Marshal maybe, but even if they could good luck with that one.

[viperashes]

Provost Marshal maybe, but even if they could good luck with that one.

I checked on this when I was doing mine. They don't have the authority. The reason being is that their jurisdiction extends only to the Federal installation that they are in charge of.

Edit: The best bet in this situation would be a trust. That's the route I had to take. It sucks having to pay the money for trust paperwork, unless 40cal happens to be in AFG on Leatherneck and I can hook him up, but for this type of situation, either having a trust and doing the paperwork when he goes on leave, or having a family member or trusted friend that is a trustee doing the Form 4 paperwork for him.

[eodinert]

It sucks having to pay the money for trust paperwork

What money would that be?

[Army Chief]

The money that many a prudent man pays to have the trust document professionally prepared by an attorney familiar with NFA law, as opposed to the usual Quicken Willmaker method which most of us have used, or considered using, in the past. As BATFE scrutiny of trust documentation has increased, its become a better idea to get a professional involved -- the often steep costs notwithstanding.

AC

[Moltke]

You're going to have to wait until you get back home to do the paperwork so unless it's a screaming deal and you already have an NFA Dealer who you trust - then just wait until you get back. Hold onto your money because maybe you'll change your mind and want something else by the time your stateside.

Edited to add: I don't know about trusts, good luck.

[Iraqgunz]

I get that. But, the OP doesn't even have a trust established. For the record I did a few transactions myself that my wife had to complete for the same reason. Which is also why I set a trust up to begin with.


I'm selling a SBS to a currently deployed troop. He and his father are both officers on their Trust. His dad is handling all the paperwork and details until he returns home.

[sinister]

The Provost Marshal at the post/base to which you are assigned signs as the CLEO if you live ON-post -- otherwise it's the CLEO for where you live off-base like anyone else (if going the form 4 route).

No big deal -- I did several between five or six PCS moves.

[Iraqgunz]

sinister,

If you don't mind, please elaborate a little. It is my understanding that NFA weapons are not allowed on base unless they are secured in the arms room. At least this was my experience at Ft. Benning, GA in 1990-91 time frame.


The Provost Marshal at the post/base to which you are assigned signs as the CLEO if you live ON-post -- otherwise it's the CLEO for where you live off-base like anyone else (if going the form 4 route).

No big deal -- I did several between five or six PCS moves.

[viperashes]

What money would that be?
AC pretty much answered this for me. I know nothing about putting together a trust. The money spent having a professional prepare the documents is far outweighed by the security of knowing that they weren't thrown together by an incompetent moron on the subject (me).

The Provost Marshal at the post/base to which you are assigned signs as the CLEO if you live ON-post -- otherwise it's the CLEO for where you live off-base like anyone else (if going the form 4 route).

No big deal -- I did several between five or six PCS moves.
I think part of it may be that the Provost Marshal may not have known that piece of information. I had had the same thought, but I could see either being true, so I didn't question it when he said that he "couldn't." Thanks. Also, If you live in the barracks, all weaponry is forbidden, but there's no verbiage in the LE manual that expressly forbids NFA weaponry on-base if you live in housing. My guess is that like the majority of those that aren't in the NFA community, most PMs don't know that they have the authority to sign off on the paperwork or that the weaponry is even legal for that matter.

[steve--oh]

This is why I went the trust route. And have the grantor be somebody you trust back home. IE not a wife.

[sinister]

While I was stationed at Benning 2003-2006 the Provost Marshal signed my Form 4 applications as the Chattahoochee County Sheriff has no jurisdiction on-post. The federal magistrate would be the only other federal civil LE authority (although you can argue the post General Courts Martial Authority also has jurisdiction).

Some posts have regs that say no automatic weapons, short-barreled weapons, or suppressors, unless "properly authorized" (i.e., a form 4).

[iJDub]

I've done something similar while in Iraq. I had someone in the G2 do my fingerprint cards, sent it in with the forms to my CLEO and explained in a letter the situation. He signed it and sent it back to me, then I mailed it into ATF. Picked up when I got back to the U.S.

[G34]

Also do not expect them to move any faster on the approval based on your active duty status, clearance level or number of previous investigations. You could have a TS/SCI and they'll process you the same as the rest.