View Full Version : Suggestions for maps
All,
If GPS for land navigation becomes Tango Uniform and one were to have to rely on a compass and paper maps, which brand/scale would you use? If GPS is TU then obviously mapquest is probably not available as well (amoung many other things). I know this thread could devolve into a lengthy discussion. I am going to stick with the state that I live in and the states that border it for starters.
Thank you for the replies.
High Tower
12-30-11, 08:14
Without the knowledge of how to do land nav without a GPS, maps are almost useless. Get the skill set on how to use a map with compass and protractor.
Otherwise just get a one of those big red topo map books that are usually state specific. I would get maps in 1:25,000 or 1:50,000.
VooDoo6Actual
12-30-11, 08:28
I also suggest learning/knowing Night NAV using constellations & GPS coords etc.
I also agree with the above. Learn how to use a map/compass/protractor before you spend too much money on a bunch of maps.
Here is a couple books you could get to learn:
-U.S. Army Map Reading and Land Navigation Handbook (http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Army-Reading-Navigation-Handbook/dp/1592283829/ref=wl_it_dp_o_npd?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2S61EYK9NSG0Z&colid=18H8Y042HSLPN)
-UTM Manual and Protractor (http://www.bepreparedtosurvive.com/Map%20Tools%20&%20Aids.htm) (Scroll to the bottom)
Paraclete comes
12-30-11, 11:58
I myself prefer the 15 minute maps the older USGS style for most uses. I suggest getting a pvc pipe and an end cap along with a screw on end cap for storage of them while your out on the move. Another great map if you can get them or print them are military MGRS maps. Most of them run off of WGS84 but are still great. I find them very easy to navigate on and a good lenstatic tritium compass cant do you wrong either. But to be honest my own collection of maps is a blend of road maps, military maps and USGS maps, maybe even a few satellite images of common routes. make sure you buy plenty of extra protractors and EXTRA fine map pens. Know your various pace counts also, slick, with ruck, without, weapons and kit, up hills, etc, etc.
USMC_Anglico
12-30-11, 15:59
Head here http://nationalmap.gov/ustopo/ to download all of the USGS topo maps you want, all for free. You can then print them off to your hearts content. You can't go wrong with a standard 1:24/25 topo map, especially if you are off road. Also having some road atlas' of your intended area will be a help too.
Head here http://nationalmap.gov/ustopo/ to download all of the USGS topo maps you want, all for free. You can then print them off to your hearts content. You can't go wrong with a standard 1:24/25 topo map, especially if you are off road. Also having some road atlas' of your intended area will be a help too.
This. I believe you can download any quadrangle in the US. USGS also offers the ability do custom maps and overlays with various data points or geo features.
Ok, don't laugh:
What about "screen capture" when browsing Google Satellite images of your AO? (Bing Sat maps are better)
I have a 3 ring binder full of screen captured sat images of my entire county, with varying levels of zoom. My BOL is well mapped too. My concern at this point is the paper getting shitty. Does anyone make "Write in the rain" printer paper?
I know many of these Sat images are several years old, but towns / streets / buildings / terrain doesn't change that quickly.
Thoughts comments or insults? :-)
Ok, don't laugh:
What about "screen capture" when browsing Google Satellite images of your AO? (Bing Sat maps are better)
I have a 3 ring binder full of screen captured sat images of my entire county, with varying levels of zoom. My BOL is well mapped too. My concern at this point is the paper getting shitty. Does anyone make "Write in the rain" printer paper?
I know many of these Sat images are several years old, but towns / streets / buildings / terrain doesn't change that quickly.
Thoughts comments or insults? :-)
You can check out this website they make it plus you can google it too.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/All-Weather-Copy-Paper-8-1-2-Inch-X-11-Inch/T21478
Here's the Rite in the Rain website and what they make.
http://www.riteintherain.com/category.asp?Id={96FCA12F-1B87-44CE-B177-3B98AB1428E2}
Moose-Knuckle
12-30-11, 20:24
If you live close to an REI they have a bi-montly class in the evening on compass/map/land NAV. There usually free to boot.
[QUOTE=USMC_Anglico;1182978]Head here.... to download all of the USGS topo maps you want, all for free. You can then print them off to your hearts content. You can't go wrong with a standard 1:24/25 topo map,
When I lived in Colorado, circa 1975, all the savvy back country travelers used the oldest USGS topo maps they could find. The USGS started removing some of the more interesting features, it seems someone made a decision that the "general public" didn't need to know about them. People woud go to the Native American sites listed and tdo damage. They dropped those sites, old mining towns, springs and water tanks on the latest maps. The best ones were done in 1910 or so.
Ok, don't laugh:
What about "screen capture" when browsing Google Satellite images of your AO? (Bing Sat maps are better)
I have a 3 ring binder full of screen captured sat images of my entire county, with varying levels of zoom.
When I do overland treks to new areas, I print out the satellite overheads so that I have greater visual references than the quad maps. This is especially handy if there are unique terrain features, man-made stuff, two-tracks or visible trails in the area to use as landmarks or references.
All,
Thank you for the replies. I have used maps all my career as a pilot. I am familiar with course plotting, headings, and basic compass use. I have not done a lot of overland type navigating while hiking or biking. It is something that I am interested in and want to become more proficient. My navigation skills are primarliy airborne usage and in these days, involve pushing buttons on flight management systems and watching a moving map display. Of course, if something happened to the displays I could revert to basic compass use.
Thanks again for the links, I will check them out.
Most of the places I have worked have had a series of 9 topo maps for the area we primarily work in up on the wall and under Plexiglas. Very helpful. A large sat map done on a plotter can be helpful as well.
When we finally buy a place I'd like to do the same thing for around my home as well.
USMC_Anglico
01-01-12, 08:07
Another resource is most states have a GIS department. They usually have all of their aerial photgraphy available online for downloading. These days it's going to be 10m resolution or better. Good stuff.
Cesiumsponge
01-31-12, 09:07
Don't forget these DIY printed maps at home are mainly done on non-waterproof inkjet ink and wimpy 18lb printer paper. A drop of rain or sweat will ruin your day.
All,
If GPS for land navigation becomes Tango Uniform and one were to have to rely on a compass and paper maps, which brand/scale would you use?
It seems no one answered you question regarding compasses.
My advice: Suunto and/or Silva. With *real* declination adjustment.
I have a Suunto M3 and a old M5. The Silva Ranger 15 is a goo, albeit a bit pricey. The Explorer seems fine.
Forget anything else.
Last time I checked the Brunton navigation compasses did not have *real* declination adjustment. Their transit compasses however, were fine.
By *real* declination adjustment, I mean those that generally have a screw in the back that you "set and forget"
Other than that, you could use the arrow taped to the back with the correct declination for your AO and year.
IIRC, for the US, you could mostly forget about this, but where I live in Brazil, declination is ~23degs W... So, I can't just ignore it.
Don't forget these DIY printed maps at home are mainly done on non-waterproof inkjet ink and wimpy 18lb printer paper. A drop of rain or sweat will ruin your day.
I've used this method with great success:
http://lifehacker.com/5867196/print-your-own-waterproof-maps-on-trash-bags
Cesiumsponge
01-31-12, 13:15
Silva is a mess. They bought Brunton and Silva's famous Ranger compass is now made in southeast Asia (Indonesia I believe) and shoddily made. Check out the reviews on REI on how crappy they are. They were, and still are $60 and riding that name despite not being made in Sweden. At the same time, Brunton's 15TDCL was Silvas's Ranger compass made in Sweden so you could get the genuine thing at $20 less. I checked a few months ago and Brunton's 15TDCL is now made in China. If you can find the Brunton at a local store, check where its made in. These compasses don't sell well for most consumers because of the price so there might be old stock left on the shelves.
I haven't looked at a Suunto lately. Are they still made in Finland?
I've used this method with great success:
http://lifehacker.com/5867196/print-your-own-waterproof-maps-on-trash-bags
Polyester film is a nice option, since it does not tear and is dimensionally stable. Engineering plots are sometimes done in polyester. It is expensive.
Plus, you can also write with pencils over the polyester
On the civilian side for hunting, hiking, etc...I use Google Earth imagery with MGRS overlays (printed and waterproofed with acetate paper), as well as topographical maps. I keep a GPS handy just in case I run into problems, but generally I just use terrain association. A thorough "map recon" will allow you to identify terrain features along your route and orient yourself based off them. Water towers, power lines, prominent hills, waterways, roads, etc, are all very helpful. If you become familiar with your route on the map before actually setting off, you'll find that you can leave the map and compass tucked away for most of the trip and actually, you know, enjoy what you're doing.
Getting good at terrain association is much preferred to dead reckoning. IE...determining your pace count, shooting an azimuth, then walking it. It's unnecessary most of the time, unless you're in a barren environment like a wide open field or a desert. Anywhere else, you can generally just terrain associate with the help of a topo map when need be.
If you get really messed up, find some high ground and do what's known as "resection." Can be very useful in figuring out where the hell you are.
Of course it's a good idea to "confirm what you think you know" along the way as far as where you actually are BEFORE you get lost, just in case you aren't able to determine your location.
Silva is a mess. They bought Brunton and Silva's famous Ranger compass is now made in southeast Asia (Indonesia I believe)
I wasn't aware of that.
I haven't looked at a Suunto lately. Are they still made in Finland?
Mine is, but it was made 3 years ago.
On the civilian side for hunting, hiking, etc...I use Google Earth imagery with MGRS overlays (printed and waterproofed with acetate paper), as well as topographical maps. I keep a GPS handy just in case I run into problems, but generally I just use terrain association. A thorough "map recon" will allow you to identify terrain features along your route and orient yourself based off them. Water towers, power lines, prominent hills, waterways, roads, etc, are all very helpful. If you become familiar with your route on the map before actually setting off, you'll find that you can leave the map and compass tucked away for most of the trip and actually, you know, enjoy what you're doing.
Getting good at terrain association is much preferred to dead reckoning. IE...determining your pace count, shooting an azimuth, then walking it. It's unnecessary most of the time, unless you're in a barren environment like a wide open field or a desert. Anywhere else, you can generally just terrain associate with the help of a topo map when need be.
If you get really messed up, find some high ground and do what's known as "resection." Can be very useful in figuring out where the hell you are.
Of course it's a good idea to "confirm what you think you know" along the way as far as where you actually are BEFORE you get lost, just in case you aren't able to determine your location.
Sounds good. I am still looking around for something suitable. I am going to concentrate on maps of surrounding states and go from there. A road atlas is a good start, however the scale may be too much to show any decent amount of detail. Thanks for the replies.
Sounds good. I am still looking around for something suitable. I am going to concentrate on maps of surrounding states and go from there. A road atlas is a good start, however the scale may be too much to show any decent amount of detail. Thanks for the replies.
For walking nav, the 1:25 000 (1cm=250m) scale maps are awesome. The 1:50 000 (1cm=500m) is good too.
Be aware that I live in a metric country, so I do not have the american scales from the top of my head (1:24 000 and 1:63,360, according to the USGS :dance3:).
More that that, you start to loose too much detail.
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