View Full Version : Why we need a national carry law right now.
Mauser KAR98K
12-30-11, 11:40
Don't know if this was already posted.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/tenn-tourist-faces-3-years-in-prison-for-trying-to-check-her-gun-at-911-memorial/
A Tennessee tourist is facing 3 years in a New York prison after doing the responsible thing and tried to check-in her firearm to a NYC police at the 9/11 memorial site. She possesses a carry permit in Tennessee. All kinds of bull shit with this. I do hope this ends up either as a soap-box tirade to push for a National carry permit law, or another case to get appealed to the supreme court (though that could also be a bad idea at the moment).
Not too long ago the head of the Tea Party Patriots ( a group I support) was arrest at a NYC airport for check-in is pistol at baggage.
NYC is violating citizens of other states their inalienable rights.
And it looks like they are afraid it might become a test case and seem to by trying to get out of it.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/hold_your_fire_4dW6vKJHy3GFawLPw5riDM
Random point of possible interest:
No permit other than NYS is accepted in NYS
NYS pistol permits are not accepted in NYC
NYC permits are good state wide, except you can't get one unless a city resident or a person of import.
EG: the persons above take a hosing for just having while passing through and at least trying to be legal about it. Yet a celebrity has one illegally in the city w/o any NY permit at all, in a bar where it's illegal to carry regardless of permit, touches it off via ND and gets a 'sorry but we have to at least give you a small fine for it but no jail, and we'll blow you too just make up for the hassle'.
DeltaSierra
12-30-11, 12:21
I must be missing something....
You do something that is against the law (however stupid that law may be,) you get arrested... I thought that was a simple concept to grasp....
Anyone with half a brain can check and see if the location they are visiting honors their resident permit...
After she was busted, police found a white substance in her purse. The Manhattan District Attorney’s Office is awaiting test results before considering charges.
Did this ever get updated?
Found this via Google...
Police who arrested Graves at the scene also allegedly found "two glassine envelopes of alleged cocaine," according to her arrest report released by the mayor's office. Sources said Graves told cops at the scene that the white powdery substance in her pocket was crushed aspirin she used to treat migraines.
Read more: http://www.dnainfo.com/20111229/downtown/woman-charged-with-taking-gun-911-memorial-also-had-cocaine-cops-say#ixzz1i2losCv2
dookie1481
12-30-11, 12:21
Random point of possible interest:
No permit other than NYS is accepted in NYS
NYS pistol permits are not accepted in NYC
NYC permits are good state wide, except you can't get one unless a city resident or a person of import.
EG: the persons above take a hosing for just having while passing through and at least trying to be legal about it. Yet a celebrity has one illegally in the city w/o any NY permit at all, in a bar where it's illegal to carry regardless of permit, touches it off via ND and gets a 'sorry but we have to at least give you a small fine for it but no jail, and we'll blow you too just make up for the hassle'.
Are you talking about Plaxico? He did 21 months in jail.
I have been carrying for around 5 years. Never once have I "Forgot" that I had my pistol on me.
"Oh shit theres a PISTOL in my pants? How that get there??"
"Forgot I had it" is not an excuse.
In her defense, all I can say is "No good deed goes unpunished"
Don't know if this was already posted.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/tenn-tourist-faces-3-years-in-prison-for-trying-to-check-her-gun-at-911-memorial/
A Tennessee tourist is facing 3 years in a New York prison after doing the responsible thing and tried to check-in her firearm to a NYC police at the 9/11 memorial site. She possesses a carry permit in Tennessee. All kinds of bull shit with this. I do hope this ends up either as a soap-box tirade to push for a National carry permit law, or another case to get appealed to the supreme court (though that could also be a bad idea at the moment).
Not too long ago the head of the Tea Party Patriots ( a group I support) was arrest at a NYC airport for check-in is pistol at baggage.
NYC is violating citizens of other states their inalienable rights.
The responsible thing would be to either not carry somewhere that her permit wasn't recognized or STFU about it and carry on (no pun intended). CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED.
Reagans Rascals
12-30-11, 12:38
I have been carrying for around 5 years. Never once have I "Forgot" that I had my pistol on me.
"Oh shit theres a PISTOL in my pants? How that get there??"
"Forgot I had it" is not an excuse.
In her defense, all I can say is "No good deed goes unpunished"
I agree. I myself have been carrying for numerous years. And I will admit to carrying in times that it might not have been the most legal, but I weighed the decisions (be legal but be dead, be illegal but live to fight the charge), but I would never attempt to carry in NYC or places like it such as MD. Those places are just absurd, if I can't carry there, I won't go there, unless I have 100% legitimate business there, otherwise, I'll stick to self defense-friendlier places.
I've never understood the concept of not allowing citizens to legally go through the process to protect themselves..... If someone asks for the right to defend themselves, how can you say no will not?
I thought when we were kids, we were supposed to tell the teacher when someone was bothering us, and therefore when you stomped his ass... the teacher already had a heads up it was coming.
By LEGALLY obtaining your permit, its simply telling the "principal" that you intend to stomp some ass if you are messed with....
and why did she tell the cop to begin with?.... when the teacher says for the person that just threw the paper ball to stand-up... you don't stand-up... especially not if she didn't even catch you....this is common sense shit we've all learned 20-30 years ago...
Anyone catch the "felons can possess" statement? The City doesnt want to honor licenses issued in state that allow felons to have guns...right...
CarlosDJackal
12-30-11, 13:31
As much as I feel for this woman; and the fact that I know of a similar case in DC (CHP holder from N. VA drives into DC to visit relatives while carrying); it is up to the individual to ensure that they are only carrying in jurisdictions that they are allowed to.
Just like the DC I mentioned, had the not been doing something so stupid as to get pulled over and searched for, he would have been fine. This woman should have left her handgun in her hotel room (IE: in the safe or locked suitcase).
While I hope they dismiss the case, I cannot blame NYC for her prosecution because she did violate the law. We all should accept the fact that because we do not agree with a particular law that is in place it doesn't mean you are above it if you are caught.
Don't make excuses when you are pulled over for speeding especially when you did so with the full knowledge that you are traveling above the posted speed limit. JM2CW.
Did this ever get updated?
Found this via Google...
Prolly Goody's headache powders.
Yankees have never heard of such a thing.
Mens rea. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea)
Former Marine faces 15 years for similar bullshit. http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/03/marine-faces-fifteen-years-behind-bars-for-unknowingly-violating-gun-law/
Ryan Jerome was enjoying his first trip to New York City on business when the former Marine Corps gunner walked up to a security officer at the Empire State Building and asked where he should check his gun.
That was when Jerome’s nightmare began. The security officer called police and Jerome spent the next two days in jail.
The 28-year-old with no criminal history now faces a mandatory minimum sentence of three and a half years in prison. If convicted, his sentence could be as high as fifteen years.
Jerome has a valid concealed carry permit in Indiana and visited New York believing that it was legal to bring his firearm. He was traveling with $15,000 worth of jewelry that he planned to sell.
The online gun-law information Jerome read was inaccurate, however, and his late September arrest initiated what may become a protracted criminal saga. He hasn’t yet been indicted by a grand jury, but there may be little legal wiggle-room if he is.
“If he does get indicted, and they want to give him something less, then the legal minimum would be two years,” noted Mark Bederow, Jerome’s attorney. “They couldn’t even offer less if they wanted to.”
When is everyone gonna learn STAY OUT OF NY.
I want to see the the new WTC but not enough to go to NY.
I want to visit the Smithsonian but not enough to go to DC.
When is everyone gonna learn STAY OUT OF NY.
I have to go every year whether I like it or not and I don't. My wife is from Upstate NY and it's beautiful in the summer time with rolling hills, green trees, nice people, beautiful lakes and sprawling dairy farms but I absolutely HATE being there due to being forced to be an unarmed victim.
My company is also based out of NY and I'm required to be there for meetings almost every year as well. Again, I hate going to NY but I have no way of avoiding it currently.
This is how I'm calling it
1) This has been occurring for a lot longer than these three instances. It is just that the media is paying attention to these cases and now reporting on them (your guess as to why)
2) This is not new, but these three, perhaps at the behest of someone are wanting to be test cases.
This was completely preventable, she brought it on herself, but she tried to do the right thing. Hopefully it won't ruin this lady's life.
Personally, I would have kept my mouth shut.
PS. NYC can suck it.
The only time I will have any sympathy at all for someone getting jammed up in NY is if they are passing through and in accordance with the law.
I can do an internet search and in .0015 seconds determine that NYS doesn't honor anyone elses' permit, just like California. If you are not smart enough to do some research then you must pay the piper like everyone else.
How many of these stories do we need before people get it? Everytime one of these situation occur, it actually hurts the national CCW debate because people will say; "Irresponsible gun owners not heeding and checking local laws".
NY Firearms Law is bad law. Your right to protect yourself does not end because a few NY socialist lawmakers say it does. Bad Law should be ignored and the Lawman who inforce it are just as guilty as the lawmaker who passed it. I find it silly that we excuse American LEOs for enforcing bad law but condem other governments when their police enforce bad law.
I don't think this woman is the horse to back.
The whole cocaine thing kind of burns it...
The law is the law, obey it and work to change it if you don't like it. If you believe this "Bad Law should be ignored" and act on it, then be prepared to face the consequences.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-03-12, 14:40
These people I feel sorry for, but really? I'd like to first get the times when they go after people passing thru on flights and either get delayed or re-routed and get pinched when they check their bags. Let's follow the laws about travellers before we start to make new ones.
I know there is a whole thread on it and all kinds of articles, but I can see no way that a national carry law would work. Here in Colorado we have a 4 hour class and no live fire and can carry pretty much carry anywhere that doesn't have metal detectors. Have fun getting that passed nationally. At best you'll have a national very restrictive standard and 50 state standards- and a lot of pressure for states to adopt the restrictive national standard.
I'm glad I got my travelling done before I was old enough to carry... I'll stay in freedom-loving places.
You know what the ****ed up thing is? I can't drive outside of New England and carry. You know why? New f#%*ing York. Goddamn progressive gun-grabbing communists...I have to drive like a minimum of 75 city miles unarmed, with my guns locked up and disassembled, ammo locked up, mags disassembled in separate pieces all over the car, locked away. Even with stripper clips, it would take me 5 or six minutes to get a loaded gun with one magazine!
And I don't want to drive through NY and then NJ, because they all suck!
We need carry reciprocity nation-wide, but we also need to un-**** all these states on the subject of carry and AWB, as well as get some kind of exception made for firearms in the car on the interstate. It isn't fair I have to break the law to travel out of my immediate area without taking a prohibitively expensive plane flight, and then I have to cut miles of red tape to avoid creating a national incident when I try to travel with my AR.
I don't think this woman is the horse to back.
The whole cocaine thing kind of burns it...
What cocaine?
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/01/4872334/bloomberg-meredith-graves-cocaine-today-last-i-checked-we-couldnt-i
The was Bloomberg and nothing more.
"Let's assume she didn't get arrested for carrying a gun. She probably would have gotten arrested for the cocaine that was in her pocket," the mayor said.
But a spokesman for the Manhattan D.A. told me at the time that no one had determined that she was actually carrying cocaine, and two days later, a police test showed that a substance found in Graves's purse was "nothing illegal," according to the New York Post.
When I asked Bloomberg about it at a press conference in Queens today, he said, "I'm still not sure what we found out, what it is yet. Last I checked, we couldn't identify it."
Reason number 1 is the 10th Amendment is null and void so much anymore.
Under the constitution no gun laws are legal unless you are incarcerated for an actual crime.
That being said, get back to the plantation you damned negros. There is no constitution, the people who wrote it were bad, it doesn't mean what it says, even if it says it, or if they said that it means exactly what it says, that torpedo did not self-destruct, you heard it hit the hull, and I... was never here.
This is from the Dred Scott decision, which you are told about a lot in history class to illustrate the many evils of the white man, but never given the original text of.
For if they were so received, and entitled to the privileges and immunities of citizens, it would exempt them from the operation of the special laws and from the police regulations which they considered to be necessary for their own satiety. It would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognized as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, singly or in companies, without pass or passport, and without obstruction, to sojourn there as long as they pleased, to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation, unless they committed some violation of law for which a white man would be punished; and it would give them the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went. And all of this would be done in the face of the subject race of the same color, both free and slaves, and inevitably producing discontent and insubordination among them, and endangering the peace and safety of the State.
If liberty was the goal, Bush would have sent troops into Albany before he sent them into Iraq. Gas bill would have been cheaper to take down that rogue slaver state.
Under the constitution no gun laws are legal unless you are incarcerated for an actual crime.
That being said, get back to the plantation you damned negros. There is no constitution, the people who wrote it were bad, it doesn't mean what it says, even if it says it, or if they said that it means exactly what it says, that torpedo did not self-destruct, you heard it hit the hull, and I... was never here.
This is from the Dred Scott decision, which you are told about a lot in history class to illustrate the many evils of the white man, but never given the original text of.
If liberty was the goal, Bush would have sent troops into Albany before he sent them into Iraq. Gas bill would have been cheaper to take down that rogue slaver state.
What does the Dread Scott decision have anything to do with the original post????
Why are all these people disclosing their status and expecting that their guns be allowed/appreciated/accommodated?
Shut up. Concealed means concealed. In the face of an active security mechanism, go somewhere else.
What does the Dread Scott decision have anything to do with the original post????
Illustrates that the original intent of the second amendment was to afford unlimited immunity from prosecution to free citizens if they wanted to pack heat. The 2nd Amendment IS national "CCW", from god, enumerated (not granted by) in the bill of rights.
Illustrates that the original intent of the second amendment was to afford unlimited immunity from prosecution to free citizens if they wanted to pack heat. The 2nd Amendment IS national "CCW", from god, enumerated (not granted by) in the bill of rights.
Holyshit! Someone else read the Constitution too!
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-03-12, 22:57
New York sucks ass and I know cause I live here. I carry everyday. I have never been to NYC and I have no intention to go either. My wife is le and she can't even enter the city with her duty weapon with out first asking permission in writing from the police commissioner. The whole state is stupid and I can't wait to leave.
I hate these threads. I would be lovely if we lived in a country that allowed persons to carry firearms as the constitution intended. But, that isn't reality. Reality is that we live in a country where individual states think it is ok to infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens and thus far they have been proven right either by the state or the lack of action by the federal government.
So that means you deal with what you know or you don't visit shitty places and move if possible. Until something changes.
Illustrates that the original intent of the second amendment was to afford unlimited immunity from prosecution to free citizens if they wanted to pack heat. The 2nd Amendment IS national "CCW", from god, enumerated (not granted by) in the bill of rights.
I think you know absolutley nothing about how case law is applied.
The Dread Scott decision has NOTHING to do with this incident. The Dread Scott decision said blacks weren't citizens. I can't think of more assinine logic than your post. I really thought you were drunk when you posted it. Now, being that you "read" the Constitution, and I'm playing it fast and loose with the word read here, why don't you try the 13th, 14th and 15th amendements that nullified the decision. Holy f'n crap.
This site has really taken a nose dive.
Time to edit my ignore list.
Don't know if this was already posted.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/tenn-tourist-faces-3-years-in-prison-for-trying-to-check-her-gun-at-911-memorial/
A Tennessee tourist is facing 3 years in a New York prison after doing the responsible thing and tried to check-in her firearm to a NYC police at the 9/11 memorial site. She possesses a carry permit in Tennessee. All kinds of bull shit with this. I do hope this ends up either as a soap-box tirade to push for a National carry permit law, or another case to get appealed to the supreme court (though that could also be a bad idea at the moment).
Not too long ago the head of the Tea Party Patriots ( a group I support) was arrest at a NYC airport for check-in is pistol at baggage.
NYC is violating citizens of other states their inalienable rights.
Another story along the same lines.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/03/marine-faces-fifteen-years-behind-bars-for-unknowingly-violating-gun-law/
And yet another tourist-with-guns bust in NYC on Saturday:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-tourist-gun-radisson-hotel-ohio-fred-vankirk-magnum--137004718.html
And yet another tourist-with-guns bust in NYC on Saturday:
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-tourist-gun-radisson-hotel-ohio-fred-vankirk-magnum--137004718.html
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/9/27/38d8b419-3a3c-4d1f-8406-012a1f7ec891.jpg
They just need to put the signs back up, that would help clear up the confusion.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_b-irc6OROLc/Sn3srWMnjCI/AAAAAAAAALg/wDtA_GitVB4/berlin_wall_americansector.jpg
A growing trend... Navy SEAL thrown in psych ward for, get this, claiming he's a Navy SEAL! http://news.yahoo.com/nyc-police-throw-navy-seal-psych-ward-claiming-135225417.html
A Virginia man claimed to be a Navy SEAL to talk his way out of a gun possession arrest on Thursday, and the New York Police Department committed him to a psych ward thinking his claims of elite military status were the rantings of a lunatic.
Turns out the guy was in fact an elite Navy SEAL.
I know NYC has a lot of ****ed up laws but can they search your vehicle for running a red light without your permission?
That redefines the term Kafkaesque.
arizonaranchman
01-24-12, 01:29
When is everyone gonna learn STAY OUT OF NY.
I want to see the the new WTC but not enough to go to NY.
I want to visit the Smithsonian but not enough to go to DC.
Exactly. Such places are despicable $%&^holes that there's no way in hell you'll ever find me in. Those states literally say to you and every other US citizen "F^$* You we don't give a damn about the Constitution or your basic human right of self defense". These places are enemies to the very principles on which this country was built. What spineless morons would patronize such places???
You deserve what you get when you go to such places, the same as you're an idiot if you go to Tijuana, Cuba, communist China, Iran, etc.
The carry laws, especially when you go across state lines, are definitely a confusing patchwork and NY and IL are two of the worst states.
That said, when you carry, it's your responsibility to know the law. The TN lady fouled up. The penalty of 3 years seems excessive under the circumstances, but she should have either kept it concealed or better yet, checked out NY law and complied with it in the first place. End of story.
Updated to add: In the last year, I acquired one of those UT permits that supposedly let you carry with reciprocity in 35 (or whatever the latest figure is) other states. However, I don't assume anything, because it'll be MY ass in jail if I'm wrong. EVERY time I carry in another state--without exception--I check out the state laws, and print out anything that indicates the reciprocity agreement honoring my UT permit, and I bring that page with me. If I can't find some hard evidence like that to support the reciprocity agreement, I won't carry in a given state.
CarlosDJackal
01-24-12, 12:07
When is everyone gonna learn STAY OUT OF NY.
I want to see the the new WTC but not enough to go to NY.
I want to visit the Smithsonian but not enough to go to DC.
I feel the same way. There is a reason I avoid certain jurisdictions and locations like the plague. I also avoid flying for the same reason.
I have to go into the Socialist State of MD every month for my Army Reserve drills. On those days I have to do so as sheep because they do not recognize the Commonwealth of VA's Concealed Handgun Permit.
I don't like it but it is the law. I have to do the same thing when entering most Military Bases in the performance of my duties or to visit the Clothing Sales stores just to buy the required uniform items.
While I like the idea of being able to carry anywhere in the United States (or the world for that matter); I also like the concept of each individual State, Commonwealth or District having the autonomy to pass their own laws without the Federal government's interference or insistence.
Why is it not okay for the Federal government to force the states to comply with certain laws (IE: Peaceable Journey, etc.) but it is okay to force them to accept others (IE: National Concealed Carry)? What a slippery slope this is.
Why is it not okay for the Federal government to force the states to comply with certain laws (IE: Peaceable Journey, etc.) but it is okay to force them to accept others (IE: National Concealed Carry)? What a slippery slope this is.
Agree with this. I would have mixed feelings about the national carry thing. The problem is the precedent it sets: it says that the federal govt can basically set firearms law for all the states. As we've learned with so many other issues, yes this makes everything "uniform", but it also takes power away from the people and the states, and makes it too easy for the feds to easily control everything. And there will be no respect for the current state of the law: socialists only respect precedent when they agree with it. If we pass a "national carry" law this year, then that law could be easily rescinded by a court, or even turned into something we don't like by a future Congress--like a national registration law.
While I like the idea of being able to carry anywhere in the United States (or the world for that matter); I also like the concept of each individual State, Commonwealth or District having the autonomy to pass their own laws without the Federal government's interference or insistence.
Why is it not okay for the Federal government to force the states to comply with certain laws (IE: Peaceable Journey, etc.) but it is okay to force them to accept others (IE: National Concealed Carry)? What a slippery slope this is.
The original intent of the second amendment was to be an unrestricted national carry and ownership permit, without any regulations.
Reagans Rascals
01-24-12, 13:06
The original intent of the second amendment was to be an unrestricted national carry and ownership permit, without any regulations.
That may be, however; as much as we dislike it, the Constitution guarantees the States the right to govern themselves and pass legislation as they see fit within their own borders.
A National Carry Law will abridge the States right to decide on internal matters.
Although this is entirely moot, because the federal government does this everyday, Marijuana and Immigration being just 2 instances.
I believe since the federal government is responsible for all weapon registrations, regardless of the States, that they can implement a licensing program in which once you are "cleared" federally, and pay the registration fee, you are thereby federally licensed to purchase, own, and carry firearms throughout the continental US. That would include NFA items.
Essentially pay say $500-$1000, submit photos and fingerprints, go through an extensive background check like you would for NFA, and once you are cleared, they issue you a federal firearms I.D. card and you would carry this on your person, be issued a federal I.D. number much like a SSN, or perhaps even use your SSN. And then you are free to purchase whatever you want, including post-sample, and carry within in the CONUS.
If you do not have the I.D., you don't get to purchase... its that simple.
Think of it like a civilian CAC.... you go into the gun store to buy something, you present the card and they scan it into the system, it is verified by the ATF, and you are cleared to purchase, right there on the spot.
Same with being stopped while carrying concealed. You present your card, they scan it and if you are cleared you're gtg...
tie in fingerprints to the system so police officers can simply scan your thumb to see if you are legally allowed to carry...
the process as it is now is just a convoluted bureaucratic pile of shit... I think the system I outlined above would clear things up exponentially.
Think of it like an FAA Pilots License.... I carry the card on my person, It has a number unique to myself, I can go to any state and fly... rent or buy any aircraft (depending on certification)... and the states can't say anything... If stopped by the FAA I present my License and log
just require a training course to be part of the clearing process to get the I.D.... you would apply for and take certain courses to be eligible for certain things... such as taking a carry course to be eligible to carry or an Automatics Weapons Course to be "cleared" to purchase Automatic Weapons.... and your I.D. would state what you are eligible for... like a Pilots License will state if you are instrument rated or if you have a Commercial or multi-engine rating...
if you commit a crime that disallows you to have ownership of firearms, it would immediately be updated in the system and your card would be flagged and "deactivated"... so once the card is ran and comes back declined it is then confiscated...
I myself would more than gladly pay $5000 and wait 9 months to get a card the would allow me to purchase whatever I wanted and carry anywhere within the US.
Gun Control activists get what they want because the system is stricter, and those of us who legally own firearms get what we want because we can carry where we want and buy what we want... both sides win
CarlosDJackal
01-24-12, 14:11
The original intent of the second amendment was to be an unrestricted national carry and ownership permit, without any regulations.
In a perfect world we would have legislators who did not see any issue with law-abiding citizens walking around with guns (as in the days when the Constitution was formulated).
I agree with you. I don't think there should even be a need for ANY concealed carry laws or laws governing firearms. I always understood the Constitution guarantees that ANY law-abiding citizen of these United States can own and bear guns whether for self-defense, Militia service or hunting.
Unfortunately, that is no the reality of today. So the big question is when does State Rights trump National Law? or does national alw trump State Rights?
Update on Marine here: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/marine_guns_for_justice_05EOcnIUm6c0srRyvstywM
Manhattan prosecutors have quietly offered a no-jail, misdemeanor deal to the retired young Marine who'd been facing a mandatory 3 1/2-year prison sentence after trying to check his Indiana-registered handgun at the Empire State Building, court papers reveal.
But the former tow gunner, Ryan Jerome -- who has garnered letter-writing support from hundreds of current and former Marines from across the country -- is saying no thanks, and continues to ask that the case be dropped altogether.
Unfortunately, that is no the reality of today. So the big question is when does State Rights trump National Law? or does national alw trump State Rights?
This argument really has to do with the debate over incorporation of the states into the Constitution.
The first 10 Amendments that we refer to as the Bill of Rights were passed all at once to appease certain states that wouldn't ratify the Constitution without one. Their fear, and hindsight has proven their Awisdom, was that the Federal Government would interfere with the Natural Rights of the citizens if it they were not specifically forbidden.
The key word if FEDERAL Government.
However, that point is moot after the 14th Amendment was (illegally) "passed".
Section 1 of the 14th Amendment reads:
" All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
In McDonald v. City of Chicago, McDonald argued that the 14th Amendment "incorporated" the States into the Bill of Rights. Over the last 100+ years the Progressives have used the 14th Amendment to incorporate the State when they approved of the issue but ignored it when it came to things they didn't like......like GUNS. Obviously McDonald won.
MY argument is that if, as the Founders believed, the right to bear arms to protect ones self is a natural right that predates all governments, how can any government, state, local, or federal infringe upon it?
Cesiumsponge
02-13-12, 17:30
Heh, in addition some of the drafters didn't even want a Bill Of Rights because such inalienable rights were blatantly obvious and some felt it was silly to state the obvious. Others feared a list of ten amendments , as viewed by future generations, meant we were only limited to ten rights. The last two amendments on the list are kind of a catch-all safety net but it didn't really work out as planned.
As we get closer to the election the Gops in the House need to make a full court press for national CCW.
By the way, I know Ron Paul is crazy and unelectable and all, but no one has to guess what his stand on national CCW is. Does anyone know what the public records of the other candidates are? See, I bet you have to check because you aren't really sure about the other "conservatives" in this race.
Anyway....
NYC and DC are perhaps some of the safest cities in America - especially for tourists in tourist areas. If you feel the need to CCW at the 911 memorial or at the Capital Mall (it is actually not a shopping mall) than perhaps you should not leave your suburban housing development.
JBecker 72
02-13-12, 19:39
NYC and DC are perhaps some of the safest cities in America - especially for tourists in tourist areas.
Uh, NO! DC is certainly not "one of the safest cities in America".
Uh, NO! DC is certainly not "one of the safest cities in America".
Ah, for tourists, going to the typical tourist spots, yes it is. Sorry, I grew up there and visit frequently. It is NOTHING like it was in the 80's.
There are good areas and bad areas in any town. You can get by just fine without a CCW in DC - unless tooling thru the ghetto is just your thing....
Prolly Goody's headache powders.
Yankees have never heard of such a thing.
I didn't until I moved to Ga. That stuff works. Tastes like absolute shit, but worth it.
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